Skip to comments.Creationism makes a comeback in US
Posted on 06/25/2007 5:55:14 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
In the United States the old but bitter debate between evolution and creationism is heating up again.
Three of the Republican presidential candidates do not believe in evolution and a high-tech creation museum recently opened in Kentucky.
Much of the debate has been fuelled by a book claiming the Grand Canyon, one of America's most well-known landmarks, was carved by Noah's flood rather than erosion.
Every national park has at least one gift shop - usually more - selling t-shirts, snow domes, mugs, postcards and books.
At the Grand Canyon you will find books on the canyon's history, the canyon's animals and even the canyon's deaths.
One book, Grand Canyon: A Different View, contains the following excerpt:
"Grand Canyon is not just an icon of beauty. It is a solemn witness to the mighty power of God who is not only the omnipotent creator of all things but also the avenging defender of his own holiness."
It is amazing to think a humble river was able to carve such a mighty canyon. Of course, a geologist will tell you that reflects the power of time rather than the power of the river - the canyon is millions of years old.
But Grand Canyon: A Different View presents a different perspective.
The book is compiled by Tom Vail, who has been guiding rafting trips down the Colorado River for 25 years.
He says for the first 15 years he was an evolutionist.
"In 1994 I became a Christian and started looking at the canyon as my book says, from a different view, and I started exploring the creationist model of the formation of the canyon," he said.
"What I found was all those little questions I had as an evolutionist had answers, and pretty logical answers as I looked at it."
Mr Vail's book is not some cheap pamphlet. It is a full colour coffee-table book, featuring expensive paper, sophisticated layout, spectacular photos, scientific language and lots of quotes from the Old Testament.
Not surprisingly, it is generating debate.
The gulf between creationists and mainstream scientists is as wide as the canyon itself.
The American Geological Institute and other groups demanded the book be removed from the national park.
The debate only fuelled sales of the book and Tom Vail says there is plenty of evidence inside the canyon to back his belief.
"We see some very large folding in the canyon where sedimentary layers, which are laid down horizontally, have been curved or carved in big bends, some of them 300 feet tall, and this is done without cracking the rock. How do you do that with hard rock?" he said.
"I'm definitely going against the tide here, but when you look at the evidence, there are major flaws in the dating methods, for example.
Much to the horror of mainstream scientists, creationism seems to be making a comeback in the United States.
A multi-million dollar creation museum recently opened, at least three of the Republicans running for President do not believe in evolution and Tom Vail's rafting trips are welcoming customers from as far away as Australia.
Opinion polls suggest 43 per cent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. Only 14 per cent believe humans evolved without divine involvement.
That's less than half. A nation that turns its back on God will not stand for long.
It happened to Rome after it turned its back on Jupiter.
When the world was finished, there were as yet no people, but the Bald Eagle was chief of the animals. He saw that the world was incomplete and decided to make some human beings. So he took some clay and modeled the figure of a man and laid him on the ground. At first he was very small but he grew rapidly until he reached normal size. But as yet he had no life; he was still asleep. Then the Bald Eagle stood and admired his work. "It is impossible," he said, "that he should be left alone; he must have a mate." So he pulled out a feather and laid it beside the sleeping man. Then he left them and went off a short distance, for he knew that a woman was being formed from the feather. But the man was still asleep and did not know what was happening. When the Bald Eagle decided that the woman was about completed, he returned, awoke the man by flapping his wings over him and flew away.
The man opened his eyes and stared at the woman. "What does this mean?" he asked. "I thought I was alone!" Then the Bald Eagle returned and said with a smile, "I see you have a mate! Have you had intercourse with her?" "No," replied he man, for he and the woman knew nothing about each other. Then the Bald Eagle called to Coyote who happened to be going by and said to him, "Do you see that woman? Try her first!" Coyote was quite willing and complied, but immediately afterwards lay down and died. The Bald Eagle went away and left Coyote dead, but presently returned and revived him. "How did it work?" said the Bald Eagle. "Pretty well, but it nearly kills a man!" replied Coyote. "Will you try it again?" said the Bald Eagle. Coyote agreed, and tried again, and this time survived. Then the Bald Eagle turned to the man and said, "She is all right now; you and she are to live together.
California Indian creation story
There’s more scientific evidence behind creationism than “global warming.”
Wallace Muhammad, founder of the Black Muslims, taught that the white race was created by African scientists in a test tube 10,000 years ago. Why not teach that? Kind of combines creation science with intelligent design.
I shouldn’t, no I will, no I wont, ahhh go ahead..... feed the beast.....
You really think you are being cute but....you’re not.
43% is still a large number, more than what the left would want us to believe. And this number is large enough for us to take the schools back from the forces of evolution and political correctness.
We can convince more people to come back to God and the truth, especially when they see that evolution is nothing more than a scientific dead end.
The ignorance of this guy astounds me (and he's the author of a geology book?!). I know this is a complete waste of time because young-earth creationists are immune to reason, but rocks are folded when they're subjected to high stresses while buried down in the crust, not at the surface. Rock will indeed break if you try to bend it at the surface, but heat it up a bit, subject it to a few kilobars of confining pressure, and it's a different story.
Does this guy think God just randomly made folds in flood sediments (violating all known physical laws) in order to fool people? Oh, that's right, I forgot - it only fools those "godless" geologists (many who attend church every Sunday like myself) who don't interpret rock outcrops with a Bible in their hands.
OK, have at it. Quote 2 Peter 3:3 or a similar verse at me, call me a heretic, an atheist, or an evilutionist. Trust me on this, however, while you may convince people who couldn't tell a sandstone from a granite if it smacked them on the head, you're not making a dent in mainstream science.
If Creationism were taught, I suspect that the number of believers in Evolution would drop significantly.
The Evos don't want Creationism taught in school mostly because the Evos don't think they can make a truly compelling case for their theory. Faced with true competition, they fear they will lose badly.
C'mon guys -- have some Faith! ;)
Welcome Texas FReeper NOOB. I see you like to jump right in to the SBR. You rock.
Just as soon as you can find a school board willing to dump another two million dollars down a rathole.
Stupid Statement Alert!
Try was " was carved by erosion during Noah's flood."
Does not make it less stupid.
“A nation that turns its back on God will not stand for long.”
We turned our back on God a very long time ago and matters are only getting worse. And yes, we will not stand for long as these clowns in Congress sell this nation out if they approve the amnesty bill. It amazes me how patient God is with us.
If that butters your toast, have at it.
In fact, when I was in grade school, I read lots of creation stories. They were pretty interesting, although none quite as lurid as the one you just posted.
“..the white race was created by African scientists in a test tube 10,000 years ago.”
Who screwed around with a test tube to create African scientists?
Yes, but luckily we are using their own tactic of political correctness against them. The left always want to fair, so lets show them fairness and teach all facts for a more comprehensive and truth based curriculum.
I'm sure that in Muhammad's mind that would be Adam and Eve.
She didn't see him again until Spring. He came back.
He became Reindeer Man and she became Herb Woman. The kids grew up to be the Human Beings.
This is an authentic Ice Age story far older than 10,000 years. The next story in the line up is about the mother with two daughters. She told her man to take them someplace to find husbands for the girls.
He took them to a town where all the men were homosexual. They preferred even visiting Reindeer spirits. Eventually the town was destroyed by ice and the woman and her family fled into the wilderness.
Obviously she couldn't find any husbands for the daughters so she turned into stone. Her husband then slept with the daughters and got them pregnant.
There are some other really, really, really old stories from the Good Old Days when the Sa'ami ruled the North.
And the crazy thing about this is not only is the left taking God out of schools like this but they are also, by forcing evolution on us, promoting the religion of evolution and atheism in the public square (a big no-no from what I come to expect from liberals).
But don't let that slow you down. I'm sure your school district is well overfunded & can afford to pay the huge legal fees the first time this old "teach em both!" chestnut is tried and, again, fails.
Is there a reason that the Christian creation myth somehow deserves a place in a science curriculum while voodoo or Native American creation myths do not?
That last story sounds a lot like Lott. Very similar!
Ah, comic strip theology. Works every time.
Here’s the Cherokee Version of Creation -
The earth is a great island floating in a sea of water, and suspended at each of the four cardinal points by a cord hanging down from the sky vault, which is of solid rock. When the world grows old and worn out, the people will die and the cords will break and let the earth sink down into the ocean, and all will be water again. The Indians are afraid of this.
When all was water, the animals were above in Gälûñ’lätï, beyond the arch; but it was very much crowded, and they were wanting more room. They wondered what was below the water, and at last Dâyuni’sï, “Beaver’s Grandchild,” the little Water-beetle, offered to go and see if it could learn. It darted in every direction over the surface of the water, but could find no firm place to rest. Then it dived to the bottom and came up with some soft mud, which began to grow and spread on every side until it became the island which we call the earth. It was afterward fastened to the sky with four cords, but no one remembers who did this.
At first the earth was flat and very soft and wet. The animals were anxious to get down, and sent out different birds to see if it was yet dry, but they found no place to alight and came back again to Gälûñ’lätï. At last it seemed to be time, and they sent out the Buzzard and told him to go and make ready for them. This was the Great Buzzard, the father of all the buzzards we see now. He flew all over the earth, low down near the ground, and it was still soft. When he reached the Cherokee country, he was very tired, and his wings began to flap and strike the ground, and wherever they struck the earth there was a valley, and where they turned up again there was a mountain. When the animals above saw this, they were afraid that the whole world would be mountains, so they called him back, but the Cherokee country remains full of mountains to this day.
When the earth was dry and the animals came down, it was still dark, so they got the sun and set it in a track to go every day across the island from east to west, just overhead. It was too hot this way, and Tsiska’gïlï’, the Red Crawfish, had his shell scorched a bright red, so that his meat was spoiled; and the Cherokee do not eat it.
The conjurers put the sun another hand-breadth higher in the air, but it was still too hot. They raised it another time, and another, until it was seven handbreadths high and just under the sky arch. Then it was right, and they left it so. This is why the conjurers call the highest place Gûlkwâ’gine Di’gälûñ’lätiyûñ’, “the seventh height,” because it is seven hand-breadths above the earth. Every day the sun goes along under this arch, and returns at night on the upper side to the starting place.
There is another world under this, and it is like ours in everything—animals, plants, and people—save that the seasons are different. The streams that come down from the mountains are the trails by which we reach this underworld, and the springs at their heads are the doorways by which we enter, it, but to do this one must fast and, go to water and have one of the underground people for a guide. We know that the seasons in the underworld are different from ours, because the water in the springs is always warmer in winter and cooler in summer than the outer air.
When the animals and plants were first made—we do not know by whom—they were told to watch and keep awake for seven nights, just as young men now fast and keep awake when they pray to their medicine. They tried to do this, and nearly all were awake through the first night, but the next night several dropped off to sleep, and the third night others were asleep, and then others, until, on the seventh night, of all the animals only the owl, the panther, and one or two more were still awake. To these were given the power to see and to go about in the dark, and to make prey of the birds and animals which must sleep at night. Of the trees only the cedar, the pine, the spruce, the holly, and the laurel were awake to the end, and to them it was given to be always green and to be greatest for medicine, but to the others it was said: “Because you have not endured to the end you shall lose your, hair every winter.”
Men came after the animals and plants. At first there were only a brother and sister until he struck her with a fish and told her to multiply, and so it was. In seven days a child was born to her, and thereafter every seven days another, and they increased very fast until there was danger that the world could not keep them. Then it was made that a woman should have only one child in a year, and it has been so ever since.
Since you asked, here is another one. (I have quite a few such stories, but no voodoo ones yet.) The Coyote stories are my favorites.
In the beginning, Old Man Coyote stood alone with water surrounding him. Two ducks swam by, and Coyote asked if they had seen anyone else. The ducks said no but thought that something might exist under the water.
Coyote asked if they would travel underwater for him and report on what they saw. The ducks did as they were asked, finding nothing. He asked again, and the ducks returned with a root. On the third try, they found mud and Coyote was happy. He told the ducks that they could build with it, and he began to shape and mold the mud into an island. He blew on it, and it expanded. He blew again, and it grew into the earth. The ducks said they did not like the earth's emptiness, so Coyote created grass and trees out of the roots that came from the water.
Coyote and the ducks loved the earth, but it was flat. They wanted rivers, valleys, mountains, and lakes. So it was done. Soon Coyote and the ducks made a perfect earth, but they grew lonely, with only the three of them to sit and enjoy the land. So Coyote molded dirt to form men and then more mud to create many types of male ducks. Soon, they realized that without women, the males could not have children. So with more dirt he made women and female ducks to populate the earth.
One day Old Man Coyote traveled upon the land and was surprised to find another Coyote. When asked where he came from, the younger brother, named Shirape, said he was unsure of his origin and only knew he existed. As the two traveled along, Shirape wanted Old Man Coyote to make other animals, for only ducks, humans, and the two Coyotes had been created. The elder Coyote agreed, and as he spoke the new animals' names, they were created. He said "Elk" and an elk appeared. He said "Bear" and a bear appeared. This is how it was until all animals were created.
Welcome to Free Republic.
I dont see why not all. (Except those that incite their followers to MURDER aka cannibals,headhunters, mooseslimes)
The idea of an intelligent creation vs accidental reverse entropy is a no brainer.
The facts of evolution, however, come from an assortment of inaccurate date testing, hoaxes and outright lies. With all the gaps in the evolutionary theory as well all the creatures and organs that evolution cant explain (such as how the ear evolved or how there is no half an eye) Im surprised you didnt see it sooner.
And the reason that Christianity is preferable to the Darwin creation myth is because Christianity promotes a reliable moral code while evolution and atheism teaches racism and cruelty in the name of survival of the fittest.
Why not? Have you ever read the Muslim story of creation:
"In the time before time, God was. And when God wants to create something, all he needs to say is "Be", and it becomes. So it was that God created the world and the heavens. He made all the creatures, which walk, swim. Crawl and fly on the face of the earth. He made the angels, and the sun, moon and the stars to dwell in the universe. And consider, as the Qur'an says, how God poured down the rain in torrents, and broke up the soil to bring forth the corm, the grapes and other vegetation; the olive and the palm, the fruit trees and the grass. Then it was that God ordered the angels to go to the earth, and to bring seven handfuls of soil, all of different colours, from which he could model man. God took the seven kinds of earth and moulded them into a model of a man. He breathed life and power into it, and it immediately sprang to life. And this first man was called Adam. God took Adam to live in Paradise. In Paradise, God created Eve, the first woman, from out of Adam's side. God taught Adam the names of all the creatures, and then commanded the angel to bow down before Adam. But Iblis, one amongst the angels, refused to do this, and thus began to disobey God's will. God place the couple in a beautiful garden in Paradise, telling them that they could eat whatever they wanted except the fruit of on forbidden tree, But the evil one tempted them to disobey God, and eat the fruit. When God knew that Adam and Eve had disobeyed him, he cast them out of Paradise and sent them to earth. But God is merciful. The earth was created to give food, drink and shelter to the human race. The sun, moon and stars give light. It is a good world, where everything has been created to serve people. And people, the Qur'an teaches, should serve God and obey his will. For those who submit to the will of God will be saved, and taken to live for ever in Paradise."
Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?
That and if you don't God'll hit you with a really big flood.
In the United States the old but bitter debate between evolution and creationism is heating up again. Three of the Republican presidential candidates do not believe in evolution and a high-tech creation museum recently opened in Kentucky.The issue has been on the burner for about ten years. The relatively new incarnation of Intelligent Design (and its test(s) in the court room) has helped, but you don't have the stances of presidential candidates on evolution make headlines unless there has been a significant foundation laid for interest towards the issue.
Much of the debate has been fuelled by a book claiming the Grand Canyon, one of America's most well-known landmarks, was carved by Noah's flood rather than erosion.Totally wrong. This was just one of many disputes that cropped up around the country on the creation/evolution debate, and hasn't made any headlines (that I'm aware of) since the dumb PEER debacle back in '06.
Opinion polls suggest 43 per cent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. Only 14 per cent believe humans evolved without divine involvement.It would be interesting to note what polls the author is citing, because the numbers vary.
Sorry, that happens not to be the case.
As usual, very interesting parallels to the true creation story.
To be sure, the union of the ACLU and NCSE was a rathole indeed!
I don’t want creationism taught, either, because it substitutes some Christians’ religious dogma for actual science.
Exactly: I don’t see what (some) darwinists have against the teaching of empirical evidence against darwinism? Shouldn’t ALL the evidence be looked at, not just that (btw many of the early darwinist evidence has been debunked as hoaxes, and/or bad science) that uphold their worldview..?
If someone is honest they won’t take ANYONE’S word for it and will openly, but honestly explore empirical evidence for themselves, it seem so many don’t want to do this though (not just evolutionists, btw).
But all evidence should be looked at openly, not just that that favors “one side”.
(Censorship) is what happens most often!
Ipso facto already? I thought we agreed we have to wait until at least the first 50 comments are in!
If God created everything, why couldn’t God create evolution?
There’s good news and bad news. The good news is, other polls show higher numbers. The bad news is, most Americans don’t seem to be acting on their beliefs.
At the moment the public schools are forced to adhere to the religious standards current in the Episcopal church. Not sure that's right. Could be we'll get to see what the Catholic standards are like.
All right, some me that you are right. Show that evolution is not the scientific fraud I and so many others know it is. Show me that evolution isnt morally bankrupted. Show that evolution does not promote atheism and the bigotry that accompanies it.
Are you seriously saying that ALL of the other 57% of us, including those of us who believe God created the universe billions of years ago and then implemented rules by which His universe was to develop, have turned our backs on God? If not, you need to rephrase. If so, you need to reconsider your hubris in speaking as if you know the mind of God.
I predict 550 posts or more.