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Creationism makes a comeback in US
abc news ^ | Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:24am AEST | Mark Simkin

Posted on 06/25/2007 5:55:14 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome

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To: DaveLoneRanger
As usual, very interesting parallels to the true creation story.

They are all equally true to their respective true believers.

So what makes you think your beliefs are more "true" than those of the 4,000 other extant world religions? And what is your evidence?

Not opinion, not revelation, not scripture, not belief, but verifiable evidence! (And you folks criticize the theory of evolution for "lacking evidence"!)

51 posted on 06/25/2007 7:10:38 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: BipolarBob

A lot of us in the 57 percent are among the faithful who believe God created the universe over a slightly longer period of time. (A day is as a thousand years, etc.)


52 posted on 06/25/2007 7:11:08 PM PDT by Larry Lucido (Duncan Hunter 2008)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Why not?

Why axe why?
Try Bud Dry!

Cerially even a broken watch tells the correct time twice a day. Serial liars will often tell the truth, to give themselves credibilty! Is-Slime is from satan! It is an affront to mankind and all of Gods creation! What good has come from the mohamicidals?

53 posted on 06/25/2007 7:13:57 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (The liberty we prize is not America’s gift to the world, it is God’s gift to humanity.”GWB-03)
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To: rockprof
bump

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” --Albert Einstein

54 posted on 06/25/2007 7:15:40 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Alien Syndrome
"And the reason that Christianity is preferable to the Darwin creation myth is because Christianity promotes a reliable moral code while evolution and atheism teaches racism and cruelty in the name of 'survival of the fittest'."

I hope you don't mean to suggest that this somehow validates creationism. Evolution and creationism should be judged according to their adherence to current evidence.

"...there is no half an eye."

You will find this of interest: Claim CB921.1: What use is half an eye? I am curious about your take on the reponse.
55 posted on 06/25/2007 7:17:18 PM PDT by Boxen (If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate!)
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To: Alien Syndrome
All right, some me that you are right. Show that evolution is not the scientific fraud I and so many others know it is. Show me that evolution isn’t morally bankrupted. Show that evolution does not promote atheism and the bigotry that accompanies it.

You made the statement:

The “facts” of evolution, however, come from an assortment of inaccurate date testing, hoaxes and outright lies.

I called you on that statement. Don't you think you are under some obligation to support your statement?

For example, can you name five hoaxes in evolution? I'll give you a hint: Piltdown Man was a hoax. Now all you need is four! Are you up to it? There are 150 years of fossils, so from your statement it should be easy, right?

Find four more genuine hoaxes and we can go from there.

56 posted on 06/25/2007 7:17:24 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Alien Syndrome
Much to the horror of mainstream scientists, creationism seems to be making a comeback in the United States.

Making a comeback? Since when did it ever go away? Them saying so didn't make it happen. They're really just horrified to find out they were wrong.

57 posted on 06/25/2007 7:23:24 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Alien Syndrome
The American Geological Institute and other groups demanded the book be removed from the national park.

Where do they get off thinking they can make demands like that? Do they own the park? Nobody is forcing anyone to buy the books. Mind control police.

58 posted on 06/25/2007 7:26:10 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Coyoteman
I don't see what's so hard about accepting a common ancestor in the case of the true creation story.
So what makes you think your beliefs are more "true" than those of the 4,000 other extant world religions? And what is your evidence?
That would get into matters of faith, theology and so forth, and you have shown naught but utter contempt for the Christian faith.
Not opinion, not revelation, not scripture, not belief, but verifiable evidence! (And you folks criticize the theory of evolution for "lacking evidence"!)
You're committing the same fallacy as those who sneer that evolution has no evidence either. As has been explained before, the evidence is the same, and is more in line with creation than evolution. We don't have "creationist evidence" and "evolutionist evidence." We have different perspectives on the same evidence.
59 posted on 06/25/2007 7:26:15 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: Coyoteman

You are the one came here promoting evolution, the burden of proof is on you. I more than supported the need for competent science in the class room.

And if you want more hoaxes I’ll give you more than you asked for (keep in mind that this is only the beginning of the deceit of evolution): Neanderthal man, carbon 14 dating, sediment layers, dinosaurs and humans living in different time periods, Lucy.


60 posted on 06/25/2007 7:28:01 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
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To: Alien Syndrome

bfl


61 posted on 06/25/2007 7:28:43 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: Alien Syndrome
And if you want more hoaxes I’ll give you more than you asked for (keep in mind that this is only the beginning of the deceit of evolution): Neanderthal man, carbon 14 dating, sediment layers, dinosaurs and humans living in different time periods, Lucy.

I am all ears. Please enlighten me. Please pick one of those topics and show me where it is a hoax.

(Please pick Carbon-14 dating, as that is one of my primary fields of expertise. Oh, please pick that field!)

62 posted on 06/25/2007 7:30:55 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: metmom

I think the article meant that creationism has finally gotten past the tyrannical hold the Darwin movement had on the school system, not that it has gone away.


63 posted on 06/25/2007 7:33:01 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
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To: Coyoteman; DaveLoneRanger
Gen 1:1 In the beginning.....

There was a beginning supported by the Big Bang Theory and Einstein’s equations and Hubble’s observations.

Gen 1:2 The earth was formless and void,...

Supported by the solar nebula theory and the proto earth.

Gen 1:20 ”Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures,

Scientists say that life arose in the seas.

Gen 1:24 ”Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind...

Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground,

“Shaped from clay [origin of life]”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1515522/posts

Scientists have concluded that clay was necessary for the formation of life.

Eccles 1:6 Blowing toward the south, Then turning toward the north, The wind continues swirling along; And on its circular courses the wind returns.

Scripture describes the circulating system of winds.

Eccles 1:7 All the rivers flow into the sea, Yet the sea is not full. To the place where the rivers flow, There they flow again.

The Bible also describes the water cycle.

Lev 17:10 - 12 `And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. `For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’ “Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, `No person among you may eat blood, nor may any alien who sojourns among you eat blood.’

Blood is necessary for life. The life is in the blood.

Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Job 9 5, 8 ”It is God who removes the mountains, they know not how, When He overturns them in His anger; 8. Who alone stretches out the heavens And tramples down the waves of the sea;

Expansion of the universe.

Col 1: 15- 17 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

All things are being held together; gravitation, strong and weak nuclear forces, magnetism.

Science supporting teachings of the Bible. Remember which came first by some thousands of years.

Pretty good for a bunch of *ignorant goat herders*. Where do you suppose they learned all that?

64 posted on 06/25/2007 7:35:37 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
Science supporting teachings of the Bible. Remember which came first by some thousands of years.

Well, there is that nonsense about a global flood about 4350 years ago. And a tower of Babel leading to all extant languages shortly thereafter. Or are you forgetting those boo-boos?

65 posted on 06/25/2007 7:38:18 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

No need to go over Carbon 14, you should already know how inaccurate it is, so I’ll go over the others.

Neanderthal and Lucy have both been proven to be apes (Neanderthal was a gorilla and Lucy was a small chimpanzee).

Sediment layers have shown time and time again that fossils have been found in the “wrong” layer, with “current” animals showing up in the bottom and extinct animals at the upper layers.

And it is common knowledge that human footprints have been found along side dinosaur footprints, look it up.

And I have also noticed that you have shone no proof what so ever in support of evolution, typical.

Atheist have never been to keen on facts in any way (acknowledging them or using them).


66 posted on 06/25/2007 7:47:04 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
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To: Coyoteman
Well, there is that nonsense about a global flood about 4350 years ago. And a tower of Babel leading to all extant languages shortly thereafter. Or are you forgetting those boo-boos?

Boo-boos?

Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. So you're going to ignore all the other scientific evidence that supports what the Bible has been teaching for thousands of years and focus on two events, although I fail to see what the Tower of Babel has to do with evolution and the earth's geologic history, that you claim have no evidence for?

Your saying the Flood didn't happen because there's no evidence for it is like saying junk DNA is *junk* because we don't know what it's for YET. There IS evidence of floods, by your own admission. Have you taken into account erosion, plate tectonics, the fact that the earth would NOT be covered uniformly with a thick layer of sediment due to currents, and that much of the sediment could be under the oceans, which cover the majority of the earth's surface?

Saying that there was no Biblical flood because you didn't find evidence at a date you expected is like a little kid plugging their ears and singing *I can't hear you.*

*Oh, it didn't happen at 4350? Too bad, I'm right, you're wrong.* You won't even consider any other dates. What are you afraid of? That you will find evidence there and it'll blow your world view to pieces, so you won't even look elsewhere?

67 posted on 06/25/2007 7:51:53 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
*Oh, it didn't happen at 4350? Too bad, I'm right, you're wrong.* You won't even consider any other dates. What are you afraid of? That you will find evidence there and it'll blow your world view to pieces, so you won't even look elsewhere?

Argue with these folks about the date and then get back to me:

The date of the global flood:

2252 BC -- layevangelism.com

2304 BC -- Answers in Genesis (+/- 11 years).

2350 BC -- Morris, H. Biblical Creationism. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1993.

2370 BC -- TalkOrigins.com

2500 BC -- http://www.nwcreation.net/biblechrono.html

2522 BC -- Dr. Gerhard Hasel

2978-3128 BC -- http://www.asa3.org/archive/ASA/199605/0162.html

3300 BC -- http://www.biblediscoveries.com/flood1.html

3537 BC -- Setterfield (1999)


68 posted on 06/25/2007 7:55:51 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

One of our friends has taught creationism/ID in a local school for years now. It’s a small rural school and he’s done a great job. He speaks in different places regarding ID and he is an amazing lecturer and teacher. He never fails to amaze me.


69 posted on 06/25/2007 7:56:56 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Alien Syndrome
No need to go over Carbon 14, you should already know how inaccurate it is, so I’ll go over the others.

Sorry, that happens not to be the case.* I do not "know how inaccurate it is" and neither do you.

If you have any evidence for "how inaccurate it is" lets see it. But you should beware of the creationist websites on this subject. They are doing apologetics, not science, and they are riddled with errors, misstatements, faulty research, and other examples of creation "science."


* We are discouraged from using the word "lie" on this site, so I use this phrase instead.

70 posted on 06/25/2007 8:00:14 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: metmom

The last chapters of Job, around 38 and on, are fascinating commentaries about God creating the world and putting the foundations in place, etc. It’s one of my very favorite parts of the Bible.


71 posted on 06/25/2007 8:03:33 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Coyoteman

I don’t think they’re boo boos. Almost all religions talk about the flood. Must be SOMETHING to it if they all feature it in their scriptures. And who says the Tower of Babel isn’t true????


72 posted on 06/25/2007 8:05:36 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: D Rider
Stupid Statement Alert!

Stupid Statement Indeed when one cannot post to the right person. Here's your sign.

73 posted on 06/25/2007 8:07:22 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rear view mirror.)
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To: Marysecretary
"Almost all religions talk about the flood."

How do you know this? Can you cite source?
74 posted on 06/25/2007 8:08:03 PM PDT by Boxen (If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate!)
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To: Alien Syndrome

“Hope???” If you mean you hope we all go back to the days when we all sat in caves and died of disease before we turned thirty, by all means do so, because the whole world would be better off without you, but don’t force the rest of us to believe your retarded fairy tales.


75 posted on 06/25/2007 8:08:13 PM PDT by RightWingAtheist (Creationism is to conservatism what Howard Dean is to liberalism)
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To: Coyoteman

Once again you have ignored request for proof for evolution. No matter, time will vindicate the faithful like it has time and time again, all this despite the fact so many avoid providing any evidence to support their view point.

Perhaps in time the evolutionist will realize the damage that they caused to our country by promoting atheism and its philosophy of “do what ever you want, no matter what the harm is done by it”. I only hope that it won’t be too late.


76 posted on 06/25/2007 8:10:17 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
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Comment #77 Removed by Moderator

To: Marysecretary
The last chapters of Job, around 38 and on, are fascinating commentaries about God creating the world and putting the foundations in place, etc. It’s one of my very favorite parts of the Bible.

Mine too. Job offers such insight to Gods methods.

78 posted on 06/25/2007 8:11:02 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rear view mirror.)
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To: Boxen

try reading Gigamesh at Hammurabi. There’s a secondary source for the flood story.


79 posted on 06/25/2007 8:13:18 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rear view mirror.)
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To: RightWingAtheist

Its statements like that and the multitude of selfish action that are the reason that atheists aren’t taken very seriously. Insulting other’s faith is not a good way to earn friends.

Thank you for validating my point.


80 posted on 06/25/2007 8:15:09 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Why should he have anything but contempt for the Christian faith when babbling idiots like you set themselves up as representatives of an entire religion? I’m just glad most Christians are complete nitwits like you.


81 posted on 06/25/2007 8:16:05 PM PDT by RightWingAtheist (Creationism is to conservatism what Howard Dean is to liberalism)
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To: Coyoteman

All those sources are not Scripture.

Show me a verse in the Bible that tells me when the earth was created and when the Flood happened.


82 posted on 06/25/2007 8:16:12 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Coyoteman

Since when did all those religious people suddenly get such credibility with you? You blow them off every chance you get and all of a sudden, they’re spot on when it suits your purpose?


83 posted on 06/25/2007 8:17:41 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Marysecretary
One of our friends has taught creationism/ID in a local school for years now. It’s a small rural school and he’s done a great job.

The biology teacher in our local high school does much the same. He said that creation and ID come up every year so he just plans on addressing it anyway. They spend about 3- 5 days on it altogether.

84 posted on 06/25/2007 8:20:17 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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Comment #85 Removed by Moderator

To: metmom

Well your local biology teacher is as much of a moron as you are, then.


86 posted on 06/25/2007 8:21:47 PM PDT by RightWingAtheist (Creationism is to conservatism what Howard Dean is to liberalism)
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To: Boxen; Marysecretary; Coyoteman

Try coyoteman. He seems to be the resident creation account guy. Leastwise, he’s done the most posting of them.


87 posted on 06/25/2007 8:22:01 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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Comment #88 Removed by Moderator

To: BipolarBob

Do you mean the Epic of Gilgamesh? I don’t think that validates the claim that “Almost all religions talk about the flood.”


89 posted on 06/25/2007 8:23:14 PM PDT by Boxen (If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate!)
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To: RightWingAtheist

Oh wow. b&.


90 posted on 06/25/2007 8:24:16 PM PDT by Boxen (If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate!)
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To: RightWingAtheist

Complaint filed. You’re making a bad name for the rest of us.


91 posted on 06/25/2007 8:27:34 PM PDT by Boxen (If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate!)
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To: Alien Syndrome
Perhaps in time the evolutionist will realize the damage that they caused to our country by promoting atheism and its philosophy of “do what ever you want, no matter what the harm is done by it”. I only hope that it won’t be too late.

Nice try at subject change. You were about to regale me with the problems with Carbon-14 dating, but got sidetracked somehow. What, can't you find any problems? You seemed pretty postive there were some a couple dozen posts back.

92 posted on 06/25/2007 8:35:34 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: metmom
Since when did all those religious people suddenly get such credibility with you? You blow them off every chance you get and all of a sudden, they’re spot on when it suits your purpose?

If there was a global flood, there must be evidence for it. The sources I cited provided dates for a global flood. If there is a specific date, then I can search the geological or sedimentological/archaeological/historical record and see what shows up.

If you think these sources are wrong, what do you suggest for the date for a global flood, and what is your evidence?

93 posted on 06/25/2007 8:40:16 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: RightWingAtheist

That one got you banned. Buh bye.


94 posted on 06/25/2007 8:41:44 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Our God-given unalienable rights are not open to debate, negotiation or compromise!)
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To: Alien Syndrome
Considering that Mt St. Helens debunked three phenomenons that were thought to have taken millions of years to occur, I certainly doubt that the Grand Canyon was carved by a river over thousands of millenia.

From memory, Mt St. Helens proved:

1. The melting snow caused a flash flood that carved a canyon overnight, far short of the expected millions of years.

2. Spirit Lake was filled with dead trees, that over time became water logged and began to pop upright with their uprooted trunks catching the shore, the settling ash in the water encased the trees were they ran aground in the lake bed and started the process for a petrified forest.

3. Mt St Helens deposited its own 25 ft layer of strata that scientists would never guess could have occurred over night.

95 posted on 06/25/2007 8:41:53 PM PDT by Nephi (Open borders is the flip side of the free trade coin. It's time for Protectionism.)
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Comment #96 Removed by Moderator

To: Coyoteman

Technically you’re “story” is just about the creation of
man and woman. I am not sure it would qualify as a
full creation story, but just a part. The Gilgamesh
story is a bit more complete.


97 posted on 06/25/2007 8:47:22 PM PDT by Getready (Truth and wisdom are more elusive, and valuable, than gold and diamonds)
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To: Coyoteman

We’ve been there before. Any date will do.

Still, lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. The further back in time you go, the less likely evidence would have survived intact, but you knew that.


98 posted on 06/25/2007 8:51:02 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Islam is based on Judaism, and has some Christian elements
in it....Islamasists believe Jesus existed, was a great
prophet, but did not rise from the dead after his
crucifixion to complete his work of saving mankind.
They believe Moses was a great prophet also.
They believe that Muhammad was THE great prophet, and value
his words and beliefs greater than they do Jesus and/or
Moses. Why would you expect their creation account to be much
different?


99 posted on 06/25/2007 8:57:13 PM PDT by Getready (Truth and wisdom are more elusive, and valuable, than gold and diamonds)
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To: Nephi

Other geologic processes do not progress at the previously thought slower rate. When efforts were made to recover the Lost Squadron, the searchers thought they would only have a few inches of snow and ice to deal with. Instead it was 268 FEET of ice.


100 posted on 06/25/2007 9:01:01 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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