Posted on 06/26/2007 7:02:27 PM PDT by frankjr
The reelection cycle affects testicular fortitude.
This is not news..these republicans have been in the Dem camp on this for quite some time. They just want some media face time...you’d think after unanimously confirming Petreus, they would shut up until he reports back...but no, they’re as bad as Reid
I think we—most of us —agree.
If we had controlled the Iranianborders to begin with we would have had less trouble in Iraq. If we dont control our own borders that trouble is coming here.
Then just give up and fit your women for burkas.
Golly gee, war is just so dang hard. As long as we can fight without taking or inflicting any casaualties then OK. But if we get any casualties or if we hurt anyone we simply must stop.
It was Osama’s prediction. He was right. The US cannot take a punch.
Circa 1978, James Earl Carter was busy implementing the Carter doctrine. That doctrine centered around the theory that the United States should only do business with nations whose leadership had a perfect human rights record. Even a fifth grader should be able to understand this doctrine and sign on to it’s tenets. Sadly, as you enter the sixth grade you begin to realize that the world is more complex than this simplistic doctrine born of and saturated with ignorance.
The Shah of Iran had been a loyal ally of the United States. His nation was stable. It was also pro-Western with it’s people enjoying the benefits of modern technology and business.
The Shah did not have a perfect human rights record. He kept an iron grip on those who would cause trouble in his nation. Today’s Iraq shows why. Once you let things spiral out of control, it’s quite difficult to restore normalcy. Still, by Ayatollah, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Taliban and Hamas standards, the Shah was an absolute saint.
Enter Mr. Carter onto the world stage. Support for the Shah was withdrawn. The Iranian government was destabilized and the Ayatollah Kohmeinie (sp?) was ushered in as the new head of Iran. The Islamic rule of Iran had started. The destabilization was almost instantly evidenced by the taking of our Iranian Embassy and the 444 days of Carter’s almost single-handed facilitation of the Hostage Crisis.
At the depths of this crisis, Carter had the gaul to put on a blue sweater to sit in front of a White House fireplace to tell United States’ citizens that their nation’s dominant stance on the world stage had come to an end. He told us we should accept less and learn to live with the new reality.
Carter had unwittingly destabilized far more than Iran. He had ushered in the very model of an Islamic state dominated by leaders who hated the west with a passion. Today we have an Iranian state that hates the west, trains, arms and funds terrorists. Syria had been a problematic state as far back as the 60s, but it had kept it’s actions within certain boundaries. It didn’t want to take on the west alone.
Once Iran was dominated by a whacked out Islamic terrorist loving leadership, the green light was shown to Syria and even citizens of other nations, some of which had fairly pro-western leaders. Saudi Arabian citizens felt emboldened to put into action deep seated feelings they had held over the years. A wave of anti-western hatred swept through the region.
This isn’t to say that all peoples of the middle east hated the west. What it does say is that there are enough very wicked people who are willing to do anything to harm the west and it’s interests. Today we see the results of that.
This war in Iraq, IS NOT ABOUT IRAQ. It IS ABOUT putting the James Earl Carter jeanie back into the bottle. If we allow Iraq to fall to Islamic terrorists, if we allow the middle east to be dominated by like minded terrorists from Iran through Iraq into Syria, we can kiss the idea of a stable pro-western world good-bye. The axis of evil will have been granted a base from which global terrorism will change everything. Europe will cave to terrorist demands. Islamic interests in Europe will grow and sooner rather than later blackmail those nations into submission. The European Union will at one point begin to do the bidding of the Islamic rogues.
I know a lot of us are focused on the illegal immigration issue. We should be. I would like to suggest that we let our leaders hear from us on this issue. We simply cannot allow the terrorists to gain this strong a foothold. If we do, it won’t be ten years before Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf states will be owned lock stock and barrel by Islamic terrorists.
We must continue to demand our borders be enforced. We must also demand that our nation block the consolidation of Islamic terrorists in a block that will destabilize this world in ways we would hardly imagine.
The people of Iraq want us there. Like the west or not, those people know what will happen if we cut and run. And in the end, if we do cut and run, we’ll deserve what we get. And it won’t be pretty. What we will have allowed to happen to the decent people of the middle east and there are many, we will reap here.
i live in a solid pubbie-held u.s. congressional and state assembly district.
the “support our troops” stickers disappeared last year.
rarely do i see one now.
If you think we’re in Iraq to destroy Al Qieda, you’re confused.
We’re in Iraq to try to avoid a civil war between Sunni’s and Shiites.
Don’t ask why. And by God don’t ask how. The answers are obvious and depressing.
With Senor Jorge as our Commander-in-chief, it is time to bring the troops home! Dang, I’m tired of defending the guy!
... All because the conservative base decided to pillory Bush over immigration...
And what do we get in return for this?
1) We don’t win in Iraq = We lose.
2) We keep the immigration system we have.
3) Anti-Bush conservatives feel better about... nothing. Just smug that they stopped Bush’s immigration reform.
4) Democrats win and push through a bigger amnesty with no penalties, and a direct path to citizenship for illegals, along with public policies that will probably encourage terrorists to succeed in yet another large attack on U.S. soil.
I think Bush has been a gentleman so far. But the rest of the conservative movement has no foresight. They want everything to swing to the Right in a single Presidency, when not even Reagan was able to reverse the Liberal policies of the previous 50 years. And somehow Bush is expected to reset everything to 1930 in 8 years, while fighting a war with two hands behind his back, and no support at all from his own party.
Sad.
Republican support for the Iraq war is slipping by the day. After four years of combat and more than 3,560 U.S. deaths, two Republican senators previously reluctant to challenge President Bush on the war announced they could no longer support the deployment of 157,000 troops and asked the president to begin bringing them home.
____________________________________________
Miss Anne Flaherty for the DNC, everyone! Give her a big hand, won't you?
“... All because the conservative base decided to pillory Bush over immigration...”
Excuse me?
His job is to DEFEND THIS COUNTRY.
How the hell can you posit that Jorge has done anything of the kind leaving our borders WIDE OPEN???
For Pete’s sake he throws our own Border Patrol in jail for DOING THEIR DANG JOBS? >:( :mad: :furious: :incredulous:
Gentleman my derrierre. :even madder:
“Had the politicians not hamstrung our military with PC rules of engagement [...]”
Had the politicians listened when the military said “this mission is unnecessary and ill-advised but if you choose to ignore our advice and invade then by God at least have the common sense to listen when we tell you how to do it [...]”
Sadly you are too right.
“The rest of the conservative movement has no foresight.”
I worry people will say “Hey, we gave the Republicans the White House, Senate and House of Representatives. They had it all” and then mutter under their breath about how bad it was.
“If you think we’re in Iraq to destroy Al Qieda, you’re confused. We’re in Iraq to try to avoid a civil war between Sunni’s and Shiites.”
Unfortunately for you, Al Qaeda’s attempt to spark a civil war in Iraq has thus far failed. Now, more and more Iraqis are turning on Al Qaeda. Your only hope now lies with Syria and Iran.
“Had the politicians listened when the military said “this mission is unnecessary and ill-advised but if you choose to ignore our advice and invade then by God at least have the common sense to listen when we tell you how to do it [...]”
When did the military make this claim?
“It’s more important to destroy the cnservative movement then destroy Al Quida.”
You are correct.
You have things backwards. Bush is doing this against the wishes of his base. His response has been to label them as xenophobes and nativists. And in a recent speech in Georgia, he questioned our patriotism and not doing right by America. If this bill passes, this country is finished and so is the GOP.
And what do we get in return for this? 1) We don’t win in Iraq = We lose.
If we lose in Iraq, it has nothing to do with immigration. After 9/11 why hasn't Bush secured the border? It is a matter of national security. Terrorists have been entering through the Mexican border and we have yet to set up a system to monitor, track, and deport visa orvestays. Five of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were in the US illegally with expired or invalid visas.
2) We keep the immigration system we have.
We are not enforcing the current immigration laws. Why? And why does Bush hold border control hostage to comprehensive immigration reform? The Secure Fence act of October 2006 authorized the construction of 854 miles of double fencing on the Mexican border. Only 11 miles of single fencing has been built. Why?
3) Anti-Bush conservatives feel better about... nothing. Just smug that they stopped Bush’s immigration reform.
We have not stopped Bush's amnesty plan, which rewards people who have broken our laws in multiple ways. It is alive in kicking despite the fact that only 26% of the people APPROVE of the senate bill. There are more than conservatives who are upset with this bill.
Democrats win and push through a bigger amnesty with no penalties, and a direct path to citizenship for illegals, along with public policies that will probably encourage terrorists to succeed in yet another large attack on U.S. soil.
The Dems are not stupid. They need Rep [read bipartisan] cover to push this plan along. The want the Reps to get all the blame while they reap the benefits. I wish this was just a Dem plan. It would be far easier for us to combat and to use to our political advantage.
I think Bush has been a gentleman so far.
Bush has sided with the Dems against his own party. This bill was cooked up in secret by a small group of senators and bypassed the normal process for a Senate bill, e.g., committee hearings. The grand bargainers and the WH are trying to shove this down our throats despite most of the American people being against it.
But the rest of the conservative movement has no foresight. They want everything to swing to the Right in a single Presidency, when not even Reagan was able to reverse the Liberal policies of the previous 50 years.
This isn't just a conservative issue. It cuts across party lines. Most Americans don't want the bill passed. What we are seeing is the political elites ignoring the wishes of the people. Instead, they are doing the bidding of corporate interests, ethinocentric groups, and labor unions. The US Senate is acting like the Soviet Politburo.
And somehow Bush is expected to reset everything to 1930 in 8 years, while fighting a war with two hands behind his back, and no support at all from his own party. Sad.
Nonsense. The conservatives have been the most loyal supporters of the war in Iraq. And some paid the price in 2006 for that support. Loyalty should work both ways. Bush is destroying the GOP by reviving a bill that had already been killed once. Moreover, the bill will destroy this country as we know it. Once the 12 to 20 million illegals are granted legal status and they bring in another 20 to 30 million more throught chain migration, there is no unringing this bell.
I remember many similar arguments made against GWB during the 2004 election.
The conservative response was:
GWB is protecting this country. We haven’t been successfully attacked on U.S. soil by internationally based terrorists. Most of the little attacks by Muslims in the U.S. originated not with illegal immigrants but the legal kind.
I consider the attacks on Bush to be shortsighted. His ability to promote a firm and aggressive anti-terror policy abroad is linked tightly to the perceived support he receives from the American people. In-fighting over his immigration policies has weakened his credibility in the War On Terror. I see cries for his impeachment on this web site with regularity these days, along with postings calling him a traitor, a New World Order proponent, a member of the Global Society conspiracy, etc.
Now, I may not agree with all his policies, but I beg to differ with all the prophets predicting the end of our nation if he gets his way with immigration. I still think that if he doesn’t get his way in foreign policy, we’re screwed... and without a solid backing by the American people, or at least the conservative and moderate components, the world will ignore him, Congress will ignore him, and Republicans will be blamed, and we’ll have another 8 years of horrific liberal rule that will surely promise to kill more people and encourage global tyrants and terrorists world wide.
Sorry, I just don’t think Bush is as bad as most of you seem to think these days. I don’t think he can possibly screw up immigration any more than it already is, and as long as he’s fighting the War on Terror, I’d give him whatever perception of support he needs to do a bang up job on that.
Heck, immigration, social security, welfare, medicare, etc... All of those have been broken for decades. Conservatives lost those fights over and over again over the decades. The War on Terror isn’t yet lost, but y’all refuse to see how everything is interconnected, and dragging down the President on one issue is the same as dragging him down on every other issue.
I just wish the Right would shut up and soldier sometimes. Sometimes we have to put up with stuff we don’t like to get to where we’re going, and if we were smarter - maybe we’d be able to stop the liberals from stealing yet another march on us. The liberal media is playing you all with stories intended to incite your delicate sensibilities, and you all are falling for it hook line and sinker. It is no surprise that prior to the 2006 election the border issue took front and center on the news. It upset conservatives to the point where we lost cohesion.
Either we get back to basics and support our elected President to the hilt, while looking for someone more conservative to follow after him, or we can just continue as we are and start planning on how to turn the next Liberal Democrat’s Presidency into a lucrative career dissing liberalism, and dreaming about the good old days when Bush was pushing for reforms that, while unpalatable, weren’t quite as radical as what the Democrats have planned.
Then again... Who am I to complain? Why not just impeach Bush over immigration? Doesn’t matter how he gets impeached or pilloried... Just seeing “Bush Loses Support In U.S.” must make Osama Bin Laden smile.
Some republicans jeesh!
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