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Webb weeps as defense rests (Iraq vet shot by deputy)
dailybulletin.com ^

Posted on 06/27/2007 6:22:28 PM PDT by CAWats

SAN BERNARDINO - A former sheriff's deputy on trial for shooting an unarmed suspect at the end of a car chase softly cried this afternoon as his attorney pleaded one last time with jurors to acquit him of attempted voluntary manslaughter and assault with a firearm charges.

Ivory J. Webb Jr. wiped tears from his eyes as his attorney, Michael Schwartz, finished his closing argument during Webb's trial in San Bernardino Superior Court.

In the final words of that argument, Schwartz compared Webb to a bird trapped in a cage, and asked jurors to allow the former deputy to return to a normal life, to return to his family.

"Do the right thing," Schwartz said. "Set him free. Not guilty on both counts."

Webb is charged with attempted voluntary manslaughter and assault with a firearm in connection with the Jan. 29, 2006 shooting of Elio Carrion. Carrion was the passenger in a Corvette that led Webb on a high-speed chase. The chase ended when the driver crashed on Francis Street in Chino, prompting Webb to hold the car's two occupants at gunpoint. A nearby resident caught the subsequent shooting on tape. The tape appears to show Webb shoot Carrion as Carrion complies with the deputy's orders to get off the ground.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailybulletin.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: chino; donutwatch; lockemup; webb
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1 posted on 06/27/2007 6:22:29 PM PDT by CAWats
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To: CAWats

video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8027854162700568157&q=ktla


2 posted on 06/27/2007 6:23:00 PM PDT by CAWats
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To: CAWats

Carrinon

3 posted on 06/27/2007 6:28:00 PM PDT by CAWats
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To: CAWats

Ivory Webb Jr.

4 posted on 06/27/2007 6:31:35 PM PDT by CAWats
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To: CAWats

I have mixed feelings about this one. Hindsight is 20-20 and I’m sure if this police officer could have watched the tape while sitting safely in a chair in a courtroom like the jurors are, he’d have made a different decision about shooting. But the reality is that an awful lot of police officers get shot during traffic stops, and quite a few of those get killed. They want to get home to their families alive just like everybody else. And when a driver leads you on a high speed chase, and you have to make split second life-and-death decisions about the intentions of his passenger, you’re likely to make the not-unreasonable assumption that there’s a better than even chance they’re two peas in a pod.

Obviously this vet shouldn’t have been shot, but what the heck was he doing riding in a car driven by the sort of low-life who leads police on high-speed chases? There have been some cases where our soldiers in Iraq have been accused of a criminal act when they shot someone who turned out to be perfectly innocent, but if they had legitimate reason to believe their target was a threat to their own lives and the lives of their fellow soldiers, and only had a split second to think through the evidence pro and con, I’d call their act a tragic mistake, not a crime.


5 posted on 06/27/2007 6:36:16 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: CAWats

That cop should fry.


6 posted on 06/27/2007 6:38:03 PM PDT by ketsu
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Watch the video and say that.


7 posted on 06/27/2007 6:38:41 PM PDT by ketsu
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To: CAWats

If I may suggest a solution.

Sentence the officer to four years in the Army, served overseas in Iraq.


8 posted on 06/27/2007 6:43:26 PM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: coconutt2000
Sentence the officer to four years in the Army

I wouldn't serve with him....

9 posted on 06/27/2007 6:49:49 PM PDT by GoldCountryRedneck ("Flying is like Life: Know where you are, where you're going, and how to get there." - 'Ol Dad)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

I couldn’t send this guy home to his family. He ordered the man up, then when the man started to obey, the cop shot him...not once, but 3 times.


10 posted on 06/27/2007 6:56:56 PM PDT by abigailsmybaby (I was born with nothing. So far I have most of it left.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
I have mixed feelings about this one. Hindsight is 20-20 and I’m sure if this police officer could have watched the tape while sitting safely in a chair in a courtroom like the jurors are, he’d have made a different decision about shooting. But the reality is that an awful lot of police officers get shot during traffic stops, and quite a few of those get killed.

But you cannot get around the fact that Webb is a LIAR. He told the first supervisor on the scene that Carrillo had lunged at him. But when the tape surfaced he changed his story. Why? Because he is a liar.

11 posted on 06/27/2007 6:56:57 PM PDT by CAWats
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To: abigailsmybaby
I couldn’t send this guy home to his family. He ordered the man up, then when the man started to obey, the cop shot him...not once, but 3 times.

A police shooting expert testified that Webb should have fired all 3 shots in rapid succession, as per police procedures. Instead, Webb shot the suspect slowly and deliberately with pauses between shots.

12 posted on 06/27/2007 7:02:20 PM PDT by CAWats
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To: CAWats

Perhaps. But there are reams of research showing that people’s memories are unreliable. You can take a bunch of random research subjects, show them a video clip, ask them specific questions about what they’re sure they saw, and get a raft of confident answers that differ wildly from what’s actually shown in the video. People’s minds fill in gaps with guesswork and hindsight, often completely subconsciously.


13 posted on 06/27/2007 7:19:25 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: CAWats

Hang him


14 posted on 06/27/2007 7:24:56 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
act a tragic mistake, not a crime.

And I would call you whole post BS.

If a so called cop cannot handle his job he should get another job before he kills somebody and you call it a mistake.

15 posted on 06/27/2007 7:25:01 PM PDT by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: CAWats

Oh, what the heck; he showed remore, and even cried! Let the poor jailbird out of his cage...

...I have a danker dungeon that would be more appropriate for him.


16 posted on 06/27/2007 7:47:01 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: CAWats

That video is pretty damning. It looks intentional. It sure wasn’t self defense.


17 posted on 06/27/2007 8:03:43 PM PDT by abigailsmybaby (I was born with nothing. So far I have most of it left.)
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To: org.whodat

How can anyone watch that tape and defend the cop is beyond me? He should be in jail for life, if I had any say. He orders the man to stand then shoots him 3 times. No way you can say he was a threat! The only threat is this officer if he gets back out on the force!


18 posted on 06/27/2007 8:33:30 PM PDT by packrat35 (The US Senate is a den of weasels seeing who can pick the carcass clean quicker)
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To: abigailsmybaby

Well, that’s what I saw too on the tape. He told him to get up and he was doing just that and then was shot.


19 posted on 06/27/2007 9:04:31 PM PDT by cubreporter
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To: cubreporter

where’s the vid?


20 posted on 06/27/2007 9:16:22 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: CAWats
Has any info come out on why they were involved in a high-speed chase, is there any 411 on the driver?

That said, the cop should have backed off a couple of feet and then had him stand up. The shooting was obscene, and, when one watches the video, criminal.

21 posted on 06/27/2007 9:23:19 PM PDT by AnnaZ (I keep 2 magnums in my desk.One's a gun and I keep it loaded.Other's a bottle and it keeps me loaded)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

He shot a man who was lying on the ground 3 times, and you want to let him off?


22 posted on 06/27/2007 9:26:19 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: CAWats

More like a bird trapped by his own actions.


23 posted on 06/27/2007 9:29:49 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: GovernmentShrinker

There is no excuse for *ordering* a suspect to stand up, and then shooting him when attempts to comply. Most especially when he tells you he is complying. That’s what happened in this case.


24 posted on 06/27/2007 9:30:53 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: coconutt2000
Sentence the officer to four years in the Army, served overseas in Iraq.

I doubt he could pass the entrance exams, physical and especially the mental/intelligence part.

25 posted on 06/27/2007 9:33:13 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

If the man is that delusional he should be locked up in a mental institution for at least as long a time as he would have served for the crimes.


26 posted on 06/27/2007 9:34:11 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: El Gato
There is no excuse for *ordering* a suspect to stand up, and then shooting him when attempts to comply. Most especially when he tells you he is complying. That’s what happened in this case.

You have perfectly summed up this case in just two sentences.

27 posted on 06/27/2007 9:35:43 PM PDT by CAWats
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To: GovernmentShrinker
I watched the video and am convinced that the cop intended to kill that man in cold blood. Not a mistake...murder. All that man was to the cop was a disposable human being. How he could calmly call "shots fired" while the man was moaning in pain and imploring his killer with a raised arm is beyond comprehension.

This scum cop needs to face the same fate as his victim, with that video playing in his cell every night, all night long until the moment they stick the needle in him.

28 posted on 06/27/2007 9:37:27 PM PDT by garybob (More sweat in training, less blood in combat.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Obviously this vet shouldn’t have been shot, but what the heck was he doing riding in a car driven by the sort of low-life who leads police on high-speed chases?

He was lying on the ground, following orders.

29 posted on 06/27/2007 9:40:53 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Obviously this vet shouldn’t have been shot, but what the heck was he doing riding in a car driven by the sort of low-life who leads police on high-speed chases?

In addition, that has little to do with what transpired later, during the actual shooting.

30 posted on 06/27/2007 9:42:59 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: cubreporter

Yeah. There’s no way to explain it away. He needs to suffer the same verdict he leveled on his victim.


31 posted on 06/27/2007 10:12:11 PM PDT by abigailsmybaby (I was born with nothing. So far I have most of it left.)
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To: org.whodat

I am not arguing that he should be returned to duty as a police officer. He is clearly not up to it. But there’s a difference between permanently removing him from police work and sticking him in a prison full of barbarians.

With the very high risk level that many police officers face on a daily basis, and the very modest pay that they earn for that risk, I just think we should be careful about creating the impression that becoming a police officer may be a ticket to a long prison term and financial and personal ruin, for mistakes made when an officer is panicked and in fear for his life. If we’re not careful, we’ll have nothing but evil-intentioned career gang-bangers staffing the police forces in our large cities.

We’re already seeing the effects of the “always blame the officer” mentality, when we have officers like this one, who clearly aren’t up to making correct, quick decisions when under great stress. I think the driver of the car, who was presumably a friend of the passenger, should be taking a much bigger share of the heat here. But for the driver’s clearly deliberate criminal act, none of this would have happened.


32 posted on 06/28/2007 12:08:57 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: garybob
How he could calmly call "shots fired" while the man was moaning in pain and imploring his killer with a raised arm is beyond comprehension.

Trouble is, police officers nowadays have often seen so many vicious thugs "moaning in pain and imploring" somebody -- usually as a result of their gang-banging or mugging/robbery attempts -- that the human factor of it is not a big deal to them any more.

33 posted on 06/28/2007 12:12:45 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: CAWats
Where's Jesse Jackoff and the Irreverent Al Sharpton ?

I thought by definition, all police brutality was by whites against blacks.

...and why hasn't this been the lead story on the MSM?

Cheers!

34 posted on 06/28/2007 12:23:11 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
That argument sure agrees with your screen name...NOT!
35 posted on 06/28/2007 12:24:16 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
I don't see how you can see the tape and not see the cop as a murderer. Unless you are Webb's brother or cousin.

When I watch the film, I know if I was the film shooter, I would have dropped the camera and put a .45 in the cop. Yup, that's right, the cop! You have the right of self defense against ANYBODY, even cops. Just ask Randy Weaver. If Weaver and his family killed 9 cops that day, he still would have been not guilty. He was attacked by the US Marshals and they got shot. That's also the reason the border patrol agents are in jail for shooting a dope dealer. If they could prove the guy shot first, they wouldn't be in jail. I'm for a pardon, but that's how the law works.

36 posted on 06/28/2007 12:36:50 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: GovernmentShrinker

“...for mistakes made when an officer is panicked and in fear for his life. If we’re not careful, we’ll have nothing but evil-intentioned career gang-bangers staffing the police forces in our large cities.”

Cold blooded killer or officer panicked...where is the panic in the video? Are you volunteering to be the passenger in the next vehicle he stops? Your defense of this apparently rogue cop is difficult to comprehend.

BTW, my son is a seasoned deputy sheriff, and also a marine (once one, always one).


37 posted on 06/28/2007 12:45:56 AM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Police officers have a tough job and often have reason to fear for their lives. When I first read the story my inclination was to give the cop the benefit of the doubt. Just because someone is a military veteran doesn’t mean they are a saint, especially when drunk and keeping bad company.

Then I watched the video. I cannot find any excuse for ordering someone to get up and shooting them as they comply... then as the man lay there groaning from the wounds telling him to shut the f*** up. The officer may have been adrenaline charged, but the actions on that video look and sound like thoughtful malice.


38 posted on 06/28/2007 1:21:56 AM PDT by Flying Circus
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To: coconutt2000
Sentence the officer to four years in the Army, served overseas in Iraq.

He's lying scum and the army is not scum. Why would you want a POS like this endangering real heroes?

39 posted on 06/28/2007 5:35:24 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
Are you volunteering to be the passenger in the next vehicle he stops?

No, I've already said I don't think he should be returned to duty, as his ability to make correct decisions in a high-pressure situation has been to shown not to be up to the standards required of a police officer. And he should be exposed to civil liability to the man he shot. I'm just not convinced he belongs in the criminal category.

However, there's precious little danger that I'd ever be a passenger in a vehicle whose driver was leading police on a high-speed chase. Maybe if I'd just been abducted, but otherwise no way. I simply don't associate with people who do things like that, and that policy has no doubt contributed to the fact that I've never been shot -- by a LEO or anyone else.

Panic is not always obvious. Heart rate, skin temperature, etc. tell a lot more about whether someone's mind is in a state of panic, than anything visible or audible in a video recording.

40 posted on 06/28/2007 5:55:15 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: mamelukesabre

It was on the same page as the story. Someone put up a link to it. I dont’ know how to do anything like that so maybe someone out there can do it for you. You should see it though.


41 posted on 06/28/2007 9:06:55 AM PDT by cubreporter
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To: GovernmentShrinker
The human factor is not an issue, the issue is that the cop told the vet to get up and as he complied, was shot three times. The cop wanted so bad to kill someone that night so he had to invent something to explain his killing. Too bad for the cop he was being taped.

If they were smart, they'd check every incident this rouge cop was involved in where he was the only witness. Odds are this is not his first time dealing dirty justice.

42 posted on 06/28/2007 10:08:42 AM PDT by garybob (More sweat in training, less blood in combat.)
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To: from occupied ga
He's lying scum and the army is not scum. Why would you want a POS like this endangering real heroes?

There are a lot of jobs in the Army, and I'm sure they can find one for him in Iraq that involves lots of hard labor, sweat in the desert sun, etc. Thus freeing up a genuine patriot to do something else.

And even if they can't find something he can do with competence, there are sand dunes that probably need shifting out of the way, one grain at a time. That should give him plenty of time to contemplate where he went wrong. And if all else fails, they can use him to find land mines... the old fashioned way.

43 posted on 06/28/2007 1:00:37 PM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: coconutt2000

You just don’t understand. This guy is a criminal. The army is not a place for criminals. He can’t be trusted - you need to be able to trust your buddies. I wouldn’t trust this POS around the corner with a sack of sh.. he is a murderer and should be executed


44 posted on 06/28/2007 1:11:21 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: from occupied ga

I don’t think you’re catching the sarcasm and irony embedded in my posts.


45 posted on 06/28/2007 1:28:35 PM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: coconutt2000

obviously not


46 posted on 06/28/2007 2:43:38 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
But for the driver’s clearly deliberate criminal act, none of this would have happened.

A surviving driver in a scenario would, in fact, be charged with killing. Along with the occifer. The guilt is not either/or it's both/and.

47 posted on 06/28/2007 4:40:37 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: GovernmentShrinker
I'm just not convinced he belongs in the criminal category.

I would expect to have seen an insanity defense in such a case. The occifer didn't react to the video by "I must have been crazy, I didn't see that" instead he whined the same old blue song.

48 posted on 06/28/2007 4:44:44 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: All

Webb acquitted.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1857976/posts


49 posted on 06/28/2007 4:47:31 PM PDT by CAWats
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To: CAWats

The world turned upside down.


50 posted on 06/28/2007 4:48:25 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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