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Can You Save The Dream That Was America? (Immigration, Values, etc) [Must Read!]
Townhall ^ | June 28, 2007 | Douglas MacKinnon

Posted on 06/28/2007 12:47:38 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

As an everyday citizen of the United States, what are your realistic options when you believe your country to be in a death spiral from which it almost assuredly won’t recover?

If you are an American who still deeply believes in the promise of our republic, how can you fight back against those from within, intent on destroying everything you hold sacred by subverting traditional family values, western civilization, national security, and just plain commonsense?

Shockingly, maybe you can’t. I’m told it’s basically too late to save the nation that represents the last best hope for mankind.

Six months ago, my novel “America’s Last Days,” was released. The novel fictionalized a revolution from within led by the former director of the FBI and the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who felt the nation was broken beyond repair and it was their duty as patriots, to try to salvage the remnants of the government established by our Founding Fathers.

Aside from trying to tell an entertaining story, I was also trying to wave a red flag. It was one of the few realistic options open to me.

Since the book’s release in January, I have received hundreds of emails from readers, and hundreds of phone calls from listeners on the radio shows I’ve done around the nation, who feel that the far-left has such a strangle hold on our media, colleges, high schools, entertainment outlets, and even a large percentage of our clergy, that the United States of their fathers and grandfathers, of border security, of politicians who put country before party or self interest, is beyond salvation.

The emails and calls – from police, firefighters, military personnel, and a host of other occupations – focus their pessimism on a few recurring themes. Chief among them is that both parties have compromised our critical border security in a craven attempt to secure the Hispanic-American vote for 2008 and beyond. Aside from the callers and readers, my Hispanic-American wife strongly agrees with that assessment. As a newly minted U.S. citizen who complied with every law of our nation, she feels this White House, the Democratic leadership, and a number of Republicans, have slapped her in the face with their transparent amnesty program for illegal aliens.

Next is the fear that our very politicians are working behind the scenes to fold the United States into a borderless, single currency, part of the “North American Union.”

Beyond that, is the rising anger at those who use political correctness as an excuse to ignore radical Islam, and especially the Islamists in our own nation who mean us great harm. The examples are many but one of the most cited is the fact that liberal executives from PBS – the network you pay for with your taxes – refused to air the film “Islam vs. Islamists: Voices From the Muslim Center.” A film that states that moderate Muslims in a number of Western countries, including the United States, are being intimidated by fanatical Islamists.

These left-leaning executives chose not to air this important documentary for most likely two reasons. First, because some “conservatives” were involved in the making of the film, and second, because they did not want to offend those who mean to exterminate us.

That twisted rationale leads to the next concern of my readers and callers. That being that as the far-left labors day and night to ensure that the millions of immigrants pouring into our nation – illegal and legal – don’t assimilate, that they guarantee the balkanization of what used to be the United States.

Time and history have proven that the fate of multiethnic, multicultural countries is certain. They break-up and revolve around the gravitational pull of their native language, culture, and ideology.

As Democrat and Republican politicians eagerly chase money and power at the expense of ethics, spirituality, and national security, they have become equal co-conspirators in the destruction of our nation from within.

If you agree with this assessment, then how – short of the revolution I start in my novel – can we save the United States from its rapidly approaching demise? Myself and tens of millions of Americans, anxiously await your answer.


TOPICS: Canada; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Mexico; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; backstabbers; balkanization; borders; bushlegacy; deathofthegop; democrats; georgebush; gop; harryreid; hispanics; illegalimmigration; illegals; immigrantlist; immigration; islam; jihad; johnmccain; lindseygraham; mexicans; muslims; nau; noamnestyforillegals; northamericanunion; owg; politics; republicans; revolt; sellouts; shamnesty; tedkennedy; terrorism; touchbackprovision; vampirebill; wheresthefence; zvisa
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How indeed? What are your ideas?
1 posted on 06/28/2007 12:47:43 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I didn’t even read the whole article. The key phrase at the beginning was’western culture’. What does that mean? Skin color has somthing to do with it. It can’t document this, but Savage said 93% of everything ever invented was invented by a light skin color.


2 posted on 06/28/2007 1:00:55 AM PDT by mefistofelerevised
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Socialists have wanted to drive a stake through America for nearly 100 years.


3 posted on 06/28/2007 1:07:46 AM PDT by weegee (If the Fairness Doctrine is imposed on USA who will ABC news get to read the conservative rebuttal)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Thanks for posting this. Great topic for discussion and I look forward to reading what people have to say.

My first thought is to elect a President who (1) believes what is stated in the above article; (2) is not an “elite” and does not have any ambition to become one; (3) is a great communicator and will talk to the American public about what’s going on, what his positions are and why he’s taking those positions-—and talk to us frequently in this way; and, (4) is courageous. Know anybody like that??? IMO, Duncan Hunter might qualify except for the communication part.

Will think about it and write more later.


4 posted on 06/28/2007 1:10:48 AM PDT by unfortunately a bluestater
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To: mefistofelerevised
Please tell whomever sent you that they were wrong: Free Republic is not a “hate site” or another name for a white supremacist or KKK front. We are a conservative discussion & news site. Whether it was DU, Kos, Action Forum (MoveOn), the Huffington Post or one of the other of thousands of leftist sites or organizations, we will not be baited by your transparent questions.
5 posted on 06/28/2007 1:11:18 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Fred Thompson/John Bolton 2008)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well, I think we can start by voting the corrupt officials out of office and elect a president who has common sense, like Duncan Hunter. The pro-amnesty politicians should be impeached for even supporting amnesty. Amnesty is treason against the United States. We need people who will enforce our existing laws, build and complete the fence, and deport every single illegal immigrant. We can expediate that process by passing new laws to make it where illegal immigrants won’t want to stay here.

As for the attack on spiritual values, as soon as another vacancy on the US Supreme Court opens, we need another conservative. That will give us 5 (along with Roberts, Thomas, Scalia, and Alito) loyal conservatives who will do miracles like overturn Roe v. Wade and protect the right to display Christian symbols in public. But, in order to get a conservative on the Supreme Court, we need a conservative Senate, regardless of party affiliation (though it would probably be more Republican).


6 posted on 06/28/2007 1:12:26 AM PDT by wk4bush2004
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To: mefistofelerevised

You should read the whole article. I don’t see that it has anything to do with skin color.


7 posted on 06/28/2007 1:13:08 AM PDT by unfortunately a bluestater
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Sadly, I think it’s FUBAR and the only way to fix it is hold elected officials accountable to the Constitution all the time. If they don’t listen to the will of the people and abide by Constitutional law, send them home for good. Electors have continuously sent the same idiots back to Congress over and over based on a stupid letter after their name. Until people quit electing the same scumbags, it will only get worse. People get the government they deserve.
8 posted on 06/28/2007 1:17:30 AM PDT by Wolfhound777 (It's not our job to forgive them. Only God can do that. Our job is to arrange the meeting)
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To: mefistofelerevised

Increase your browser’s font size; the “key phrase” was “western civilization”, not “western culture”. Western civilization generally believes in individual freedoms and rights, capitalism, life, liberty, and the pursuit, etc. Skin color has nothing to do with it. Re-read that last line, and keep adjusting the font size until you get it.


9 posted on 06/28/2007 1:24:47 AM PDT by hollywood (Stay on topic, please.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Nobody sent me anything. I qouted Savage. I am no racist. My wife is half Mexican. What does Western culture mean? DU? I’ve never even looked at that but have heard of it. White supremacst? I’m not that either. KKK? Not interested. Attack Savage if you like. Tell me, what does western culture mean? Who lives in western cultures? Move on? What is that?Your acquisations are not correct.


10 posted on 06/28/2007 1:25:11 AM PDT by mefistofelerevised
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Good post! I agree with those who have contacted him. It is too late to save America. Congress is not listening to conservatives, and the number of true conservatives is dwindling rapidly. As Americans, we have set our goal as the American Dream, to have everything we want, and now. We have lost our work ethic, our honesty and integrity as a nation. We have idolized everything but God, Himself. We talk about God, but we don’t walk the talk well enough to be judged righteous by our own words. We take the easy way out of everything.

Compared to other nations, we are still at or near the top, but comparing ourselves to other nations today is worthless. We need to reclaim our forefather’s zeal for Truth, godliness, honesty, sacrifice, and love for family before we can recapture any part of the vision our forefather’s held.

Personally, I don’t think there are enough of us to make a difference in time to save America. Many who complain only do that, or you’d see a huge difference come election time. But the problem is that most don’t vote in the more important one, the primaries, where you can still elect a good person to run in the general election. If people really were upset enough, they’d be 100% at the primaries and 100% at the general election, to make sure a good man or woman was elected. Too many are just armchair commentarians.


11 posted on 06/28/2007 1:25:45 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: navyvet
ping
12 posted on 06/28/2007 1:26:22 AM PDT by endthematrix (a globalized and integrated world - which is coming, one way or the other. - Hillary)
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To: Shery

“If people really were upset enough, they’d be 100% at the primaries and 100% at the general election, to make sure a good man or woman was elected. Too many are just armchair commentarians.”

Which is why the primaries are extremely important! If we want someone like Duncan Hunter to win, then we’ve all got to get out there and support them in the primaries!


13 posted on 06/28/2007 1:28:52 AM PDT by wk4bush2004
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I can’t, you can’t, we can’t, but God can. All He has to do is pour out His Spirit on ALL flesh because it is “not by (human) might, not by (human) power, but by my Spirit saith the Lord”. That is why I put ALL my faith in God, and none of my faith in man. Man has let me down too many times to count. God has never let me down. In fact, He always lifts me up when the world tries to pull me down.


14 posted on 06/28/2007 1:33:33 AM PDT by HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath (Christ's Kingdom on Earth is the answer. What is your question?)
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To: mefistofelerevised
Hmmmm.

Y' been here a month.

Your previous posts are not out to lunch...mebbe a little too sunshiney??

So, you're either a patient troll, or your Delphi-ed engrams are kicking into "kill the messenger" phase: I'm guessing you're still in college...or a very recent graduate.

Assuming the latter...benefit of doubt.....welcome; and please continue in deprogramming mode: it surely sucks having your responses to things dictated by others.

And one such Pavlovian trigger is obviously showing itself when you read "western culture". Whatever weighted, negatively charged emotional response your having...."gosh, racist!" ......grab the nearest water pipe and discharge that virus to ground.

Simply put, Western Culture is that which defines a person as sovereign of themselves...allowing one's self to be governed by consent....not coercion. No groupthink. No caste. No servitude based upon birth. (we're talking ideals, here....don't go all boinky again) The belief in free ideas, markets...the superior plan of the 'unseen hand'...the benefit of 'natural aristocracy'....etc.

It has nothing whatever to do with your programmed response. Shake it, man!

15 posted on 06/28/2007 1:35:30 AM PDT by dasboot
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To: dasboot

Nice post....brilliant i might say!


16 posted on 06/28/2007 1:38:22 AM PDT by teldon30 (disgruntled 2nd class)
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To: HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath

“God has never let me down. In fact, He always lifts me up when the world tries to pull me down.”

Amen! Well said!


17 posted on 06/28/2007 1:38:26 AM PDT by wk4bush2004
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To: unfortunately a bluestater

The author started the article about ‘western civilization’. If ‘western ciivlization wasn’ t a key part of the article why did the author say it? The author wrote a paragraph that has a definate cultural base. I may have made a mistake, but I usually consider western civilization to be Europe and the pre amnesty United States. nothing else.


18 posted on 06/28/2007 1:50:22 AM PDT by mefistofelerevised
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To: dasboot
PS...since I'm in 'brilliance mode' :^)

If you don't know what Delpi Technique is....do a little googling. The road to recovery is recognition of what has been done to you.

And, to be sure, your query is an unintended exposition of exactly why we find ourselves...caretakers of the ideals of the Republic... in the bad place about which the author writes: reason has been corrupted by the black arts of mass manipulation. Huxley's term 'herd poisoning' is apt.

Think for yourself. Our common interests...freedom, liberty, and prosperity....rest upon that ability.

19 posted on 06/28/2007 1:53:05 AM PDT by dasboot
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To: mefistofelerevised
I usually consider western civilization to be Europe and the pre amnesty United States. nothing else.

Can you explain why you think that? What is 'pre-amnesty'??

20 posted on 06/28/2007 1:55:36 AM PDT by dasboot
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

God hasn’t even lifted a pinky. Wait till He roars onto the scene through His perfected church. The godless will either be on their knees begging forgiveness, or turned into bio-fuel faster than you can say liberalism. It is about to taste eternal and complete defeat. All I can cry out and shout from the housetops is “GO AHEAD SATAN, BRING IT, SO GOD”S ARMY CAN STUFF YOU INTO THE PIT!”


21 posted on 06/28/2007 2:00:47 AM PDT by HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath (Christ's Kingdom on Earth is the answer. What is your question?)
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To: HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath

Jer 17:5 (NIV) This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD.”

Prov 28:26 (NIV) He who trusts in himself is a fool...


22 posted on 06/28/2007 2:04:31 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Fred Thompson/John Bolton 2008)
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To: Wolfhound777

Also, pass a law they cannot become lobbyists.


23 posted on 06/28/2007 2:06:20 AM PDT by freekitty
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Conservatives must accept that fact that there is only a one party system in the U.S. due to the Republican party ideologically aligning itself with the socialist Democrat party. Conservatives in the Republican party need to leave the party and form a Conservative party. Doing so will reestablish a two party system.
24 posted on 06/28/2007 2:08:04 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax , you earn it , you keep it!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
the far-left labors day and night to, as they put it in the 1960s, "Bring it all down, man."

Time and history have proven that the fate of multiethnic, multicultural countries is certain. . .

If you agree with this assessment, then how – short of the revolution I start in my novel – can we save the United States from its rapidly approaching demise? Myself and tens of millions of Americans, anxiously await your answer.

No revolution. Leave it to the professionals. To wit, I believe that history also says, "Every aging republic is entitled to at least one patriot-dictator."

I suppose some conservatives will bond with the left so repugnant is that thought -- even though it's only temporary. Just long enough to do a little house cleaning. It's that serious IMO and I've believed since at least 1970.

If you're out there, get on the damn horse, already!

25 posted on 06/28/2007 2:12:12 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: mefistofelerevised

Western civilization includes: The rule of law, private property, republican/democratic types of government, and much more. Do you feel that these things are worth preserving?


26 posted on 06/28/2007 2:26:17 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Fred Thompson/John Bolton 2008)
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To: dasboot

Wow! I’m getting thumped for what I said. Tell me. What does western civization mean? Is Iran a western civilization? Is Mongolia? Please explain what it is and who lives there. Was I wrong to qoute Savage and make an assumption as to why that paragraph was written?
Thanks for the welcome.
Others do not dictate what I say or how I think, but thanks for your valuable thoughts. I did not intend was not to kill the messenger or try. If you can explain my mistake please do so. There was a paragraph written that had lead me to believe the author was separating cultures. It would ‘suck’ to have others dictate my thoughts. Happily they are my own. But thank you for your heartfelt opinions. thank you and thank you again


27 posted on 06/28/2007 2:26:52 AM PDT by mefistofelerevised
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
RE: "Free Republic is not a 'hate site' or another name for a white supremacist or KKK front. We are a conservative discussion & news site."

Was it the mention of Savage? Or do you deny that Western civilization has in fact invented the overwhelming majority of modern technology -- of course, the factors of freedom and individual inalienable rights play a key role offering the same opportunities to non-Westerners who have experienced those opportunities. As I recall Savage's comments it was the culture not race that contributed the most.

If FR truly is "a conservative discussion & news site" can't we at least discuss it?

28 posted on 06/28/2007 2:29:29 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yes of course. Some took what I said as kkk thing. It was not.It is western civilization that has a chance to preverse what is important. You have stated what is important. It is up to the people who run the western nations to preserve it. That is what I should have said. It’s Savage’s fault.


29 posted on 06/28/2007 2:36:45 AM PDT by mefistofelerevised
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To: mefistofelerevised

Culture or civilization are not the same thing as race. Please read the wise words of President Theodore Roosevelt:

“There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

For an American citizen to vote as a German-American, an Irish-American, or an English-American, is to be a traitor to American institutions; and those hyphenated Americans who terrorize American politicians by threats of the foreign vote are engaged in treason to the American Republic.

Americanization

The foreign-born population of this country must be an Americanized population - no other kind can fight the battles of America either in war or peace. It must talk the language of its native-born fellow-citizens, it must possess American citizenship and American ideals. It must stand firm by its oath of allegiance in word and deed and must show that in very fact it has renounced allegiance to every prince, potentate, or foreign government. It must be maintained on an American standard of living so as to prevent labor disturbances in important plants and at critical times. None of these objects can be secured as long as we have immigrant colonies, ghettos, and immigrant sections, and above all they cannot be assured so long as we consider the immigrant only as an industrial asset. The immigrant must not be allowed to drift or to be put at the mercy of the exploiter. Our object is to not to imitate one of the older racial types, but to maintain a new American type and then to secure loyalty to this type. We cannot secure such loyalty unless we make this a country where men shall feel that they have justice and also where they shall feel that they are required to perform the duties imposed upon them. The policy of “Let alone” which we have hitherto pursued is thoroughly vicious from two stand-points. By this policy we have permitted the immigrants, and too often the native-born laborers as well, to suffer injustice. Moreover, by this policy we have failed to impress upon the immigrant and upon the native-born as well that they are expected to do justice as well as to receive justice, that they are expected to be heartily and actively and single-mindedly loyal to the flag no less than to benefit by living under it.

We cannot afford to continue to use hundreds of thousands of immigrants merely as industrial assets while they remain social outcasts and menaces any more than fifty years ago we could afford to keep the black man merely as an industrial asset and not as a human being. We cannot afford to build a big industrial plant and herd men and women about it without care for their welfare. We cannot afford to permit squalid overcrowding or the kind of living system which makes impossible the decencies and necessities of life. We cannot afford the low wage rates and the merely seasonal industries which mean the sacrifice of both individual and family life and morals to the industrial machinery. We cannot afford to leave American mines, munitions plants, and general resources in the hands of alien workmen, alien to America and even likely to be made hostile to America by machinations such as have recently been provided in the case of the two foreign embassies in Washington. We cannot afford to run the risk of having in time of war men working on our railways or working in our munition plants who would in the name of duty to their own foreign countries bring destruction to us. Recent events have shown us that incitements to sabotage and strikes are in the view of at least two of the great foreign powers of Europe within their definition of neutral practices. What would be done to us in the name of war if these things are done to us in the name of neutrality?

One America

All of us, no matter from what land our parents came, no matter in what way we may severally worship our Creator, must stand shoulder to shoulder in a united America for the elimination of race and religious prejudice. We must stand for a reign of equal justice to both big and small. We must insist on the maintenance of the American standard of living. We must stand for an adequate national control which shall secure a better training of our young men in time of peace, both for the work of peace and for the work of war. We must direct every national resource, material and spiritual, to the task not of shirking difficulties, but of training our people to overcome difficulties. Our aim must be, not to make life easy and soft, not to soften soul and body, but to fit us in virile fashion to do a great work for all mankind. This great work can only be done by a mighty democracy, with these qualities of soul, guided by those qualities of mind, which will both make it refuse to do injustice to any other nation, and also enable it to hold its own against aggression by any other nation. In our relations with the outside world, we must abhor wrongdoing, and disdain to commit it, and we must no less disdain the baseness of spirit which lamely submits to wrongdoing. Finally and most important of all, we must strive for the establishment within our own borders of that stern and lofty standard of personal and public neutrality which shall guarantee to each man his rights, and which shall insist in return upon the full performance by each man of his duties both to his neighbor and to the great nation whose flag must symbolize in the future as it has symbolized in the past the highest hopes of all mankind.”


30 posted on 06/28/2007 2:49:31 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Fred Thompson/John Bolton 2008)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

saving


31 posted on 06/28/2007 2:50:02 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: mefistofelerevised

Sorry, that’s totally false.

The Chinese, Arabs and Hindus (for example) have all made numerous, highly significant advances, discoveries and inventions. Some of the most fundamental inventions necessary for civilization itself were made in Egypt (Africa) and the Middle East (semites.) One of the most significant inventions of human history comes out of Africa: human language.

Even were “whites” (a sociocultural concept, not a scientific one) somehow “superior,” that “fact” would be totally irrelevant. Why? Because the fact that some individuals are smarter and/or more talented than others has no bearing on the fact that all individuals have equal rights, and deserve equal status as human beings. And if that’s true of individuals, it’s also true of “races.”


32 posted on 06/28/2007 2:59:47 AM PDT by sourcery (Double Feature: "The Amnestyville Horror" and "Kill the Bill, Vol. 2")
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To: mefistofelerevised

Western Culture is NOT related to the color of skin. It is a philosophy and state of mind. You can be black, brown yellow, red or white and subscribe to “Western Culture” and nobody would blink an eye.

Saying that western culture is a racist creation is usually parroted by the diversity crowd.

That said, it can be argued that a huge percent of things that have been invented WERE invented by western culture. I don’t know what percent, but certainly a large majority.


33 posted on 06/28/2007 3:18:03 AM PDT by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The impression I get is that the US is no longer a viable country and likely needs to be split up. Democracy is a good system for governing a fairly homogeneous group of people with shared ideals and values; it is not a reasonable system for wharing power between two or more groups of people with nothing in common at all and who basically just hate eachother. The present system in which thye demokkkrat party tries to rule by gaming the system at all points and all times is untenable in the long run.


34 posted on 06/28/2007 3:18:07 AM PDT by rickdylan
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To: sourcery; mefistofelerevised
RE: "93% of everything ever invented was invented by a light skin color."

The tenor of the original reply may be misleading for the reasons you document.

The tenor of the original reply is also misleading about Savage for two reasons: 1) Savage did not put the emphasis on white (light or whatever) skinned people, it was culture / civilization or however one cares to describe the West; and 2) he was talking about modern times leading up to today. Yes, I know about all the wondrous things being invented 24/7 today in Asia.

On to another matter which I will include in this reply (if anyone cares to read it): civilization v. culture. Why the argument?

culture: The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.

civilization: The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch.

35 posted on 06/28/2007 3:29:51 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: sourcery

Yes...Chinese, Arabs and Hindus have made contributions to the pool of knowledge, thought and invention. But in the volume of creation and innovation of both intellectual and material creation, there is no contest. Certainly not with the Arab culture.

I think Bernard Lewis has stated that Spain translated more books into Spanish in one year than the entire Arab culture has translated into Arabic in its entire history. When was the last time Hindus have contributed enough innovation to make even a dent in the tidal wave of western creation since the beginning of the Eighteenth Century? And the Chinese as well.

But when one looks at the graph of innovation and invention, it takes an exponential curve upwards as the dominance of western culture in the world has taken the reins.

I don’t think it was a coincidence that that trajectory was linear and relatively flat for centuries, up until about300-400 years ago.


36 posted on 06/28/2007 3:30:16 AM PDT by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Poated under another headline:

Alien ideals frame GOP immigration stand

Not being a posting police - just linking to further comments.

37 posted on 06/28/2007 3:31:32 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: rickdylan
Many of the Founding Fathers would agree with you. Though in addition to the things which you mentioned, they thought ancestry was also an important binding force between a people. In any case, here is what John Jay had to say in the Federalist Papers (#2):

With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people--a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence.

This country and this people seem to have been made for each other, and it appears as if it was the design of Providence, that an inheritance so proper and convenient for a band of brethren, united to each other by the strongest ties, should never be split into a number of unsocial, jealous, and alien sovereignties.

38 posted on 06/28/2007 3:33:11 AM PDT by old republic
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We can agree the immigration bill is terrible for many reasons, but the broader alarmism is unwarranted.

Among other things, multi-culturalism is entirely manageable. Switzerland is multi-cultural. So is Great Britain (ask a Welshman if you disagree). And whatever you think the gulf may be between recently immigrated Mexicans and descendants of long-ago immigrated Europeans, they are nothing compared to the gulf between (say) low-caste Tamils in Madras and high-caste Gujaratis in Mumbai.


39 posted on 06/28/2007 3:34:40 AM PDT by only1percent
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To: mefistofelerevised
I didn’t even read the whole article. The key phrase at the beginning was’western culture’. What does that mean? Skin color has somthing to do with it. It can’t document this, but Savage said 93% of everything ever invented was invented by a light skin color.

You're getting thumped for a reason; your post is not very clear. I don't know what you are trying to say but it comes out bigoted. And, quoting Savage will get you flamed every time.

I don't necessarily disagree with you I just really don't know what you are saying.

40 posted on 06/28/2007 3:36:45 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: unfortunately a bluestater

I don’t see where Duncan Hunter is a bad communicator. He is direct and doesn’t mince words. Personally that’s what I like. I just want facts, don’t bore with all the other nonsense. As far as his intensity goes, we are totally screwed right now, he knows the deal. It’s hard to be lighthearted and funny with so much on the line.


41 posted on 06/28/2007 4:06:04 AM PDT by panthermom
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To: Shery

When the U.S. Senate refused to even consider or look at evidence in the bjc impeachment trial, and the American people sat by and let it pass, I realized that it’s all over but the cryin’ for this country.

Everything - and I mean everything - has devolved into naked self-interest. I have never seen a people so obsessed with money in my life - it gets worse every day. Of course, the funny thing is that the money is intrinsically worthless without big government; and big government has no power except as conveyed by their green IOU’s.

The solution? I wish I knew, for my granchildren’s sake.


42 posted on 06/28/2007 4:11:18 AM PDT by GadareneDemoniac
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To: raybbr

Take a second look; they’re not the same editorial, merely the same author...


43 posted on 06/28/2007 4:13:16 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Fred Thompson/John Bolton 2008)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Take a second look; they’re not the same editorial, merely the same author...

Can you see my face red from embarrassment? Sorry.

Not enough tea, chasing a two year old around are my only excuses.

44 posted on 06/28/2007 4:17:32 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: GadareneDemoniac; All

After I posted my comment, I read post #14. I suggest that everybody on this thread read and ponder what that writer said.

I recall that God’s word says,

“If MY PEOPLE, who are called by MY NAME, will

1. HUMBLE themselves

and

2. CALL ON MY NAME,

I will HEAL this land....”

Amen!!!


45 posted on 06/28/2007 4:21:06 AM PDT by GadareneDemoniac
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

All I can say is BLOAT. (Read: Buy lots of ammo today)


46 posted on 06/28/2007 4:21:48 AM PDT by mosaicwolf
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To: mefistofelerevised
"The key phrase at the beginning was’western culture’. What does that mean? Skin color has somthing to do with it. It can’t document this, but Savage said 93% of everything ever invented was invented by a light skin color."

I suspect the key to understanding this in that 7% of everything invented that was NOT invented by someone of light skin. You'll find a common Judeo-Christian culture, work ethic and value system is prevalent in THAT 7%

So, it's not necessarily a race based thing... although you can make it that with these statistics.

It IS however a cultural thing and the culture that used to thrive (and likely still will) is the one most "light skinned" people of the U.S. and Europe were raised under (even if many no longer espouse those values)

IMHO of course
Cheers,
Lloyd

47 posted on 06/28/2007 4:29:36 AM PDT by Lloyd227 (and may God bless Oriana Fallaci)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’ve always contended that the way to take back America is for conservatives to take over local governments.

The head (federal government) can’t function without the body (local government).

This was the model used by the founders with their Sons of Liberty councils on local levels and their pamphlet campaigns in local communities. When that local strength reached a certain level, the founders succsssfully took on the British crown and won.


48 posted on 06/28/2007 4:35:40 AM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: mosaicwolf

Just say NO to Illegal Alien Amnesty!! Keep calling!! It’s NOT OVER!!

U.S. Senate switchboard: (202) 224-3121

U.S. House switchboard: (202) 225-3121

White House comments: (202) 456-1111

Find your House Rep.: http://www.house.gov/writerep

Find your US Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Toll free to the US Senate:

1-800-882-2005. (Spanish number)
1-800-417-7666. (English number)

Courtesy of a pro-amnesty group, no less!!


49 posted on 06/28/2007 4:38:27 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Fred Thompson/John Bolton 2008)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I guess we could save it, but then we couldn’t maximize profits.


50 posted on 06/28/2007 4:39:32 AM PDT by Wolfie
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