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Why We Went to War in Iraq
Front Page Magazine ^ | 06-29-07 | By David Horowitz

Posted on 06/29/2007 5:07:35 AM PDT by MNJohnnie

When he was in office and responsible for protecting us, Al Gore was absent from the war on terror. As Vice President, he was part of an administration that failed to respond to the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993; that cut and ran when al-Qaeda ambushed US Army Rangers in Mogadishu; that called for regime change in Iraq when Saddam expelled the UN weapons inspectors but then failed to remove Saddam or to get him to allow the UN inspectors back in; that failed to respond to the murder of US troops in Saudi Arabia or the attack on an American warship in Yemen; that reacted to the blowing up two US embassies in Africa by firing missiles at an aspirin factory in the Sudan and empty tents in Afghanistan; that refused to kill or capture Osama Bin Laden when it had a dozen chances to do so; and that did not put in place simple airport security measures, its own task force recommended, that would have prevented 9/11.

In short, to every act of war against the United States during the 1990s, the Clinton-Gore response was limp-wristed and supine. And worse. By refusing to concede a lost presidential election, thereby breaking a hundred-year tradition, Gore delayed the transition to the new administration that would have to deal with the terrorist threat. As a result of the two-month delay, the comprehensive anti-terror plan that Bush ordered on taking office (the Clinton-Gore team had none) did not arrive on his desk until the day before the 9/11 attack.

Yet, it is characteristic of Gore’s myopic arrogance that he would wag his finger at the Bush administration for its failure to anticipate the 9/11 attack. “It is useful and important to examine the warnings the administration ignored,” Gore writes in his self-referentially titled new book, The Assault on Reason. As if to underscore his own hypocrisy – he then adds: “not to ‘point the finger of blame’….” Of course not.

Like his Democratic colleagues, Gore sees himself as a restorer of “reason” to an America that is on its way to perdition thanks to the serpent in the Rose Garden. According to Gore, Bush is the arch deceiver: “Five years after President Bush made his case for an invasion of Iraq, it is now clear that virtually all the arguments he made were based on falsehoods.”

The First Big Bush Lie, according to Gore, is that the Bush administration went to war to remove Saddam Hussein’s WMDs or, as he puts it: “The first rationale presented for the war was to destroy Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.” This familiar Democratic claim is itself probably the biggest lie of the Iraq War, rather than anything the president or his administration has said. In fact, the first – and last – rationale presented for the war by the Bush administration in every formal government statement about the war was not the destruction of WMDs but the removal of Saddam Hussein, or regime change.

This regime change was necessary because Saddam was an international outlaw. He had violated the 1991 Gulf War truce and all the arms control agreements it embodied, including UN resolutions 687 and 689, and the 15 subsequent UN resolutions designed to enforce them. The last of these, UN Security Council Resolution 1441, was itself a war ultimatum to Saddam giving him “one final opportunity” to disarm – or else. The ultimatum expired on December 7, 2002, and America went to war three months later.

Contrary to everything that Al Gore and other Democrats have said for the last four years, Saddam’s violation of the arms control agreements that made up the Gulf War truce – and not the alleged existence of Iraqi WMDs – was the legal, moral and actual basis for sending American troops to Iraq.

Al Gore and Bill Clinton had themselves called for the removal of Saddam by force when he expelled the UN weapons inspectors in 1998, a clear violation of the Gulf truce. This was the reason Clinton and Gore sent an “Iraqi Liberation Act” to Congress that year; it is why the congressional Democrats voted in October 2002 to authorize the president to use force to remove him; and it is the reason the entire Clinton-Gore national security team, including the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense and the Director of Central Intelligence, supported Bush when he sent American troops into Iraq in March 2003.

The Authorization for the Use of Force bill – passed by majorities of both parties in both Houses – is the legal basis for the president’s war, which Democrats have since betrayed along with the troops they sent to the battlefield. The Authorization bill begins with 23 “whereas” clauses justifying the war. Contrary to Gore and the Democratic critics of the Bush administration, only two of these clauses refer to stockpiles of WMDs. On the other hand, twelve of the reasons for going to war refer to UN resolutions violated by Saddam Hussein.

Even if these indisputable facts were not staring Gore in the face, the destruction of WMDs could not have been the “first rationale” for the war in Iraq for this simple reason. On the very eve of the war, the president gave Iraq an option to avoid a conflict with American forces. On March 17, two days before the invasion, Bush issued an eleventh-hour ultimatum to Saddam: leave the country or face war. In other words, if Saddam had agreed to leave Iraq, there would have been no American invasion. It is one of the most revealing features of the Democrats’ crusade against George Bush that they blame the war on him instead of Saddam.

If its offer had been accepted, the Bush administration would have left in place a regime run by the Ba’athist Party and headed by Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz or some comparable figure from the old regime. The idea was, that without Saddam, even such a bad regime would honor the truce accords of 1991 and UN Resolution 1441. This would have led to Iraq’s cooperation with the UN inspectors and the destruction of any WMDs or WMD programs that Saddam may have had – without necessitating a war.

Ignoring – and distorting – the facts about how and why his country went to war, Gore repeats the slanders of the president – and therefore his country – that have become a familiar aspect of our political life. The charges are transparently designed to destroy the authority of America’s commander-in-chief, while his troops are in harm’s way – an unprecedented sabotage of a war in progress. In the course of repeating these charges, Gore adds one of his own, indicting Bush as a tool of the American ruling class who has manipulated the facts about Iraq in order to serve their hidden agendas: “It was as if the Bush White House had adopted Walter Lippmann’s recommendation to decide in advance what policies it wanted to follow and then to construct a propagandistic mass persuasion campaign to ‘manufacture’ the consent of the people to do what the ‘specialized governing class’ had already made up its mind to do.”

Of course Walter Lippmann never recommended any such thing. This is a gross misrepresentation of a Lippmann argument, which can be traced to Noam Chomsky and his Marxist screed, Manufacturing Consent. According to Chomsky, the term “manufactured consent” refers to a conspiracy of the ruling class to snooker Americans into war. This is a malicious misreading of Lippmann’s text.

In his book, Public Opinion, Lippmann observed that modern society had become so complex that only specialized experts were in a position to understand the implications of a given national policy. Because of this complexity, informed policy debates could not be conducted by the voting public but necessarily took place between specialized experts who were then supported by constituencies on both sides of the argument. In other words, Lippmann was already recognizing the role of what we now call “special interest” and “public interest” groups in shaping the national policy debate. It was in this sense that Lippmann wrote that democratic consent was inevitably “manufactured.” Lippmann never recommended that rulers should organize a “propagandistic mass persuasion campaign” to deceive the public and manipulate the result. This is Chomsky’s perversion of Lippmann’s idea, which Gore merely repeats.

Even so, the argument that Bush manipulated the facts about Iraqi WMDs to pursue a war policy that was aggressive and unfounded is demonstrably false. Bush acted on the consensus of every major intelligence agency – including the British, the French, the Russian, the German and the Jordanian – all of whom believed that Saddam had WMDs. In other words, he cannot reasonably be accused of inventing the existence of Saddam’s WMDs, although that is precisely what Gore and other demagogues on the left do on an almost daily basis. Since every Democratic Senator who voted for the war was provided by the administration with a copy the intelligence data on Saddam’s WMDs, the charge made by Gore and other Democratic senators that they were deceived is both cynical and hypocritical as well as false.

Gore’s charges continue: “We were told by the President that war was his last choice, when it was his first preference.” Was it? That depends on what one means by “first preference.” If what Gore means is that the president prepared for war with Saddam long before the war began, well, of course he did. It was his responsibility to do so. It is the Pentagon’s motto – and a fundamental doctrine of every strategist from Sun Tzu to Clausewitz – that if you want peace, prepare for war. By 2001, when Bush took up residence in the Oval Office, Saddam had already broken the Gulf War truce many times over. American pilots were engaged in a low-intensity armed conflict with the Iraqi military over the “no-fly zones” the truce had created. Clinton and Gore had allowed Saddam to get away with breaking the truce he had signed for two reasons. First because they were preoccupied with the fallout from Clinton’s affair in the White House; but more importantly, because ever since Vietnam the Democrats had shown no interest in deploying American troops to protect the national interest (and thus had opposed the first Gulf War).

In 1998, Saddam expelled the UN inspectors from Iraq. Why would he do so if it was not his intention to do mischief as well? Specifically, why would he do so if it was not his intention to develop the weapons programs – the WMD programs – that the Gulf truce outlawed and that the UN inspectors were there to stop? The terrorist attacks of 9/11 showed that Saddam’s mischief could have serious consequences – not because Saddam had a role in 9/11 – but because Saddam celebrated and endorsed the attacks, had attempted to assassinate an American president and had hosted terrorist organizations and gatherings engaged in a holy war against the West.

The only reason Saddam allowed the UN inspectors to return to Iraq in the fall of 2002 was because Bush placed 200,000 U.S. troops on its border. It would have been irresponsible of Bush to put those troops on the border of a country which was violating international law unless he meant to enforce the law. But the troops were there to go to war only if Saddam Hussein failed to honor the 1991 truce, not to slake the aggressive appetites of the president of the United States, as America’s enemies – and Al Gore – maintain.

Saddam’s offer to allow the UN inspectors to return to Iraq coincided with Bush’s appearance at the UN in September 2002. His message to the UN was that it needed to enforce its resolutions or become irrelevant. If UN did not enforce the resolutions that Saddam had violated, the United States would do so in its stead. Jimmy Carter and Al Gore marked the occasion by publicly attacking their own president for putting such pressure on Saddam Hussein. This was the beginning of the Democratic campaign to sabotage an American war in progress, which has continued without letup ever since.

As a result of Bush’s appeal, the UN Security Council voted unanimously to present Saddam with an ultimatum, and a 30-day deadline to expire on December 7, 2002. By that date he was to honor the truce and destroy his illegal weapons programs or “serious consequences would follow.” The ultimatum was UN Resolution 1441 – the seventeenth attempt to enforce a truce in the Gulf War of 1991. The deadline came and went without Saddam’s compliance. Saddam knew that his military suppliers and political allies – Russia and France – would never authorize its enforcement by arms. This is the reason the United States and Britain went to war without UN approval, not because George Bush preferred unilateral measures, which is simply another Democratic deception.

Since war was not the president’s preference – first, last or otherwise – the United States did not immediately attack. Instead, the White House spent three months after the December 7th deadline trying by diplomatic means to persuade the French and Russians and Chinese to back the UN resolution they had voted for and to force Saddam to open his country to full inspections. In other words, to honor the terms of the Gulf War truce that they – as Security Council members – had ratified and promised to enforce.

Virtually all of the claims that make up the core of the Democrats’ attacks on Bush’s decision to go to war – that he manipulated data on aluminum tubes to present them as elements of an Iraqi nuclear program and that he lied about an Iraqi attempt to buy yellowcake uranium – were never part of the administration’s rationale for the use of force, and were not mentioned in the Authorization for the Use of Force congressional legislation. They were political attempts to persuade the reluctant Europeans to enforce the UN ultimatum and international law. Even then, by offering Saddam an escape clause, Bush provided an alternative to war. If Saddam would re-settle in Russia or some other friendly state, the United States would not invade.

A third Democratic lie, regurgitated by Gore, is the famous accusation about the sixteen words Bush used in the State of the Union address on the eve of the war. According to Gore, Bush claimed “that he had documentary proof” that Saddam Hussein attempted to buy fissionable uranium from the African state of Niger. According to Gore the “documentary proof” was revealed to be an Italian forgery for which Bush failed to apologize. According to Gore, there was no inquiry into how this happened. According to Gore, the Niger claim was one of the key falsehoods on which Bush based the “rationale” for the war. Every one of these assertions is a distortion of the facts and false.

First, the Niger claim was not part of the rationale for the war. It is not mentioned in the Authorization for the Use of Force legislation or in UN Security Council ultimatum 1441, which constitute the actual reasons the United States and Britain went to war in Iraq. In his State of the Union address the president did not say he had “documentary proof” of an Iraqi mission to obtain uranium in Niger. He said “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” Those sixteen words were all he said. Every one of these words, moreover, was true then and remains true today. The British did report that Saddam “had sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa,” and they have stuck by their report, which – contrary to Gore’s malicious assertion – has indeed been investigated by a Senate Intelligence Committee, and has not been found to be false as Gore (and legions of unprincipled Bush critics) have falsely claimed. Moreover the forged Italian document – which was not mentioned in the State of the Union Address, as Gore falsely suggested – was quickly acknowledged by the White House to be forgery.

The Niger claim, along with the administration’s claims about aluminum tubes and Colin Powell’s February speech to the UN, which are falsely presented by administration critics as rationales for the war were all made more than a month after Saddam defied the December 7th deadline. They were not rationales for the war, but were strictly for the benefit of the appeasement parties in Britain and France. They were put forward as part of an attempt to secure a second Security Council resolution to reinforce the 1441 ultimatum. This requested by British Prime Minister Tony Blair, even though a second Security Council resolution would have been redundant. It was needed by Blair to respond to the attacks he was under from Britain’s anti-American left.

In January, weeks before Powell’s speech, 800,000 Britons – mainly Laborites – had descended on London to protest the war. This would have been equivalent to four million Republicans descending on Washington to protest Bush’s decision to go to war. If Powell’s UN speech was a “manipulation” of the facts to hoodwink the public, it failed miserably. It certainly did not persuade any of the leftists who poured into the streets of London to defend Saddam, and it did not persuade the French or Russian allies of Saddam to desert him. In America, the majority support for the war had long been in place, and for them Powell’s speech was superfluous.

For Gore and the president’s Democratic critics, all these facts count for nothing. In their place is the great American Satan, George Bush. According to Gore and the Democrats America went to war for reasons that are either illegitimate or immoral or both. According to Gore, the sending of American troops to Iraq was an imperial aggression, orchestrated by the president and his advisors who manipulated the evidence, deceived the people, and ignored the UN to carry out their malign intent: “The pursuit of ‘dominance’ in foreign policy led the Bush administration to ignore the United Nations,” writes Gore, showing his utter contempt for the facts. What Bush actually ignored was the French, who built Saddam’s nuclear reactor, collaborated with Saddam’s theft of the “Oil for Food” billions, and threatened to veto any attempt to enforce international law or the UN ultimatum. Bush also ignored the Russians, who supplied two-thirds of Saddam’s weapons, helped him sabotage the UN sanctions, and refused to enforce the UN ultimatum. What Bush did not ignore were the 17 UN resolutions designed to keep the Middle East peace and protect the world from the consequences of its failure. Al Gore did that.

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David Horowitz is the author of numerous books including an autobiography, Radical Son, which has been described as “the first great autobiography of his generation.” It chronicles his odyssey from radical activism in the ‘60s to his current position as the head of the David Horowitz Freedom Center and who one journalist has called "the left's most articulate nemesis." His book, The Art of Political War was described by White House political strategist Karl Rove as “The perfect guide to winning on the political battlefield.” Left Illusions is an anthology of 40 years of his writings. His latest books are The Professors, which documents the debasement of the academic curriculum by tenured leftists, The Shadow Party, which describes the radical left's control of the Democratic Party's electoral machine and Indoctrination U., which is an in-depth look at how indoctrination has taken the place of education in today's college classrooms.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cuzclintonwouldnt; gwot; horowitz; iraq; oif; okcbombing; supportthetroops; usmilitary; war; whywefight
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In fact, the first – and last – rationale presented for the war by the Bush administration in every formal government statement about the war was not the destruction of WMDs but the removal of Saddam Hussein, or regime change.

A fact the willfully ignorant on the Political Left have ignored so they can demagouge on the issue

1 posted on 06/29/2007 5:07:37 AM PDT by MNJohnnie
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To: MNJohnnie

This is a real keeper. And also, something to be shared.

Thanks!

‘Face


2 posted on 06/29/2007 5:10:38 AM PDT by Monkey Face (It's always darkest just before it goes totally black. ~~ My Mother said it first)
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To: MNJohnnie

UN Resolution 1441...


3 posted on 06/29/2007 5:12:27 AM PDT by johnny7 ("But that one on the far left... he had crazy eyes")
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To: MNJohnnie
I object! The Clinton/Gore Administration showed its manhood when it acted decisively in WACO!

Mega Sarcasm Alert!

One need only look at the Congress' apporval rating to measure the meaningless minions of the Demoronic Party! If they think that their Pelosi Reid Campaign is working then maybe Medicare treatments for the Insane is a possibility.

4 posted on 06/29/2007 5:17:52 AM PDT by Young Werther ( and Julius Ceasar said, "quae cum ita sunt." (or since these things are so!))
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To: MNJohnnie

Ultimately, we await the verdict of history.


5 posted on 06/29/2007 5:20:22 AM PDT by sono ("Let's start the Fairness Doctrine with NPR." Dennis Miller)
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To: IGOTMINE

self ping for later reading


6 posted on 06/29/2007 5:28:09 AM PDT by IGOTMINE (1911s FOREVER!)
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To: MNJohnnie

save


7 posted on 06/29/2007 5:31:24 AM PDT by Eagles6
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To: MNJohnnie

Ping to read later.


8 posted on 06/29/2007 5:31:49 AM PDT by Remole
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To: MNJohnnie

BUMP!!!


9 posted on 06/29/2007 5:34:05 AM PDT by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: IGOTMINE

Hey! Watch it, there are laws against self pinging in public.


10 posted on 06/29/2007 5:35:16 AM PDT by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: MNJohnnie

bttt


11 posted on 06/29/2007 5:36:29 AM PDT by SShultz460
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To: MNJohnnie

So Al Gore is an idiot? I’d have never guessed! /s


12 posted on 06/29/2007 5:54:40 AM PDT by Filo (Darwin was right!)
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To: MNJohnnie

We went to war in Iraq because the worldwide balance of power had shifted during the Clintoon years away from U.S. interests. To address power vacuums that resulted from the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Bush I administration attempted to guide the international community into responsible cooperation, guided by U.S. military and economic power and principles

But the Clintoons instead delegated the responsibility and the power the United Nations, which, of course, was entirely incapable of wielding either.

As a result, post-Cold War power vacuums began to be filled by regional thugs, Al Queda types, and their enablers, such as the Tabliban and the UN. The Bush/Powell showdown at 42nd St prior to the Iraqi invasion was an attempt to force responsibility upon the UN. Sadly, that body proved incapable of reality, and rejected the offer. So, off we went to Iraq without the “international community,” but fully on its behalf.

The world is far, far better off for the invasion of Iraq. Without it, we’d have untenable holds on Afghanistan and those few Persian Gulf bases from which we would be unable to project or wield any real power. As much as the Iraq war has enabled Syria and Iran to counter the U.S. presence, that presence has acheieved just that: they now have incredible resistence that was otherwise absent.

This is not a chess game. It’s fixing serious, serious leadership errors during the 1990s.


13 posted on 06/29/2007 5:56:38 AM PDT by nicollo (all economics are politics)
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To: MNJohnnie

Great article.

DH makes this clear and simple to understand. Even Gore could understand it!


14 posted on 06/29/2007 5:56:54 AM PDT by subterfuge (Today, Tolerance =greatest virtue;Hypocrisy=worst character defect; Discrimination =worst atrocity)
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To: MNJohnnie
I believe the worst thing would be to leave before we finish this now, but I knew it would be a giant tar baby in the beginning. I believe that legally and morally the war was justified. Not strategically however. I knew the American people would not have the will for the occupation. Not yet. They don’t feel the hands around the throat that would be needed to focus our fat apathetic nation. Just because a nation is in the right to take action it doesn’t mean it is compelled. I believe we could have bombed Saddam out of power. But thats the arm chair general in me and perhaps I’m wrong.
15 posted on 06/29/2007 6:02:31 AM PDT by TeddyIke
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To: MNJohnnie

While David makes a wonderful summary, I regret to see that the obvious interference with forcing Saddam to cave and thereby avoid war was severly undercut by the actions of French and other powers for reasons that later appear to have been motivated by corruption such as Oil For Food bribery.


16 posted on 06/29/2007 6:02:54 AM PDT by KC Burke (Men of intemperate minds can never be free...their passions forge their fetters.)
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To: MNJohnnie
From the article: In his book, Public Opinion, Lippmann observed that modern society had become so complex that only specialized experts were in a position to understand the implications of a given national policy.

I would change the word "complex' in the above quote to the term "wantonly distracted."

Obviously, Horowitz is on point, again. But when I think of the majority of this nation's voters in the context of this excellent article, I can envision only a relatively small percentage of the public getting through the first paragraph.

Saddam wanted the world to think that he had WMD capability. He believed that eventually the weaklings who chiefly run the free world would prevail and that he would be able to once again pursue his dreams of conquest. IMHO, the aftermath is another example of that rarest of historical occurrences-- a few courageous leaders taking necessary action, despite being vilified by treacherous, power-mad political opponents.

Dubya has often disappointed me, but I will give him my undying thanks for having the vision, courage, and steadfastness to at least begin what no other POTUS has had any stomach for since Islamofascim has matured into the modern threat of the last thirty years.

This is a great summary, thanks for posting it.
17 posted on 06/29/2007 6:46:34 AM PDT by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: MNJohnnie

Bookmark


18 posted on 06/29/2007 6:49:33 AM PDT by usmcobra (I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4; intenseracer; 2ndDivisionVet; Lurker; roaddog727; MizSterious; Tainan; ...

Ping.

This is a very well-argued piece that well-dissects the arguments and spin of the Left regarding the genesis of the Iraq war.


19 posted on 06/29/2007 7:11:37 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: MNJohnnie
Al Gore lost the 2000 election and he and the rest of the democrats, have not and will not recover.

What ever George Bush did, cure cancer, end world hunger, find Amelia Earhart, would have no consequence. Al and the democrats would still have lost and would still not accept that fact.

20 posted on 06/29/2007 7:33:28 AM PDT by Phlap (REDNECK@LIBARTS.EDU)
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To: MNJohnnie
I still hold to the idea that the primary reason for invading Iraq was to put the last block into surrounding Iran because it is the major bad actor in the Islamic world. The Taliban was removed from Afghanistan. Turkey was an ally. Pakistan was nominally an ally. Inroads were being made with the former Soviet republics north of Iran. That left Iraq as Iran's only unguarded border. We expected to have a relatively easy time removing Saddam (check) along with an easy time controlling Iraq afterward (nope). I think the second is because we didn't expect Iran to see this move as threatening them and grossly underestimated their response.
21 posted on 06/29/2007 7:34:35 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (A base looking for a party.)
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To: MNJohnnie
can be traced to Noam Chomsky and his Marxist screed,

One of these days I'm going to run into Chomsky. He's going to have a very, very bad day.

L

22 posted on 06/29/2007 8:19:25 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing moderate islam to extremist islam is like comparing small pox to ebola.)
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To: MNJohnnie

awesome


23 posted on 06/29/2007 8:27:57 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: MNJohnnie
We went into Iraq for both strategic and tactical reasons.

The thing that we didn't think about is that there have been regional conflicts in this land for centuries that Sadham kept buried through the use of force.
What we did not anticipate was that these regional conflicts would break free in such a short time, and we didn't have a government ready to go that would put them down in a hurry.

We are there, we should not be leaving until there is a workable solution to this, and if we do leave we will be leaving a larger, and more dangerous, vacuum than when Sadham was in power.

24 posted on 06/29/2007 8:33:09 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: FreedomPoster; MNJohnnie; acad1228; AliVeritas; aomagrat; beachn4fun; BIGLOOK; blackie; ...

Thank you for the ping, FreedomPoster. An excellent post, MNJohnnie!

Pinging a few friends...this one’s worth your time to read.


25 posted on 06/29/2007 10:18:33 AM PDT by StarCMC (Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. óGeorge Washington)
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To: MNJohnnie

OUTSTANDING!!!


26 posted on 06/29/2007 10:24:29 AM PDT by txradioguy (In Memory Of My Friend 1SG Tim Millsap A Co. 70th Engineer Bn. K.I.A. 25 Apr. 2005)
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To: MNJohnnie
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket My son is returning from Iraq on the 2nd of July. My oldest came back last year. I will always pray for the rest that are still carrying on their mission.
27 posted on 06/29/2007 10:24:49 AM PDT by rbosque ("To educate a person in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: MNJohnnie
WMD and treaty violations were never the most important reason to me. Terror is used by islamofascist regimes and movements, the strongest and most incorrigible of which at the time was Saddam's. We must take down the states who use and support terror to deprive groups like AQ of their oxygen.

The treaty violations made the war perfectly legal under international law, IMHO, but were never the most important reason to go to war, or, rather fight back, since the islamofascists have been at war with us for decades.

28 posted on 06/29/2007 10:30:17 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: StarCMC

BTTT


29 posted on 06/29/2007 10:31:10 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: Young Werther

Amen I’ll bet some of the womwn and childern at Waco wish they could hve spent time at Gitmo instead of being barbecued!!!


30 posted on 06/29/2007 10:35:14 AM PDT by Plains Drifter (If guns kill people, wouldn't there be a lot of dead people at gun shows?)
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To: nicollo
This is not a chess game. It’s fixing serious, serious leadership errors during the 1990s

Great post.

31 posted on 06/29/2007 10:48:24 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (If you will try being smarter, I will try being nicer.)
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To: Just another Joe

Saddam started 2 regional wars, killed hundred of thousands if not millions and had drawn the USA into an open end military comitment to “Contanin” him.

Saddam was the biggest thread to the worlds political and economic stablity around. Even if we leave today, the world is much much much better off with him gone.

BEST answer is we stay and Iraq emerges as a viable stable democracy. But any answer that removes Saddam is a better answer then leaveing him around to make trouble.


32 posted on 06/29/2007 10:51:21 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (If you will try being smarter, I will try being nicer.)
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To: Just another Joe
The thing that we didn't think about is that there have been regional conflicts in this land for centuries that Sadham kept buried through the use of force. What we did not anticipate was that these regional conflicts would break free in such a short time, and we didn't have a overnment ready to go that would put them down in a hurry.

Well, I actually don't know to what extent these matters were or were not considered, pre-invasion. But, having said that, the concerns that you mention in your post do not, for me, outweigh what I consider to be the correct answers to the following questions.

1. After our nation was viciously attacked, why should Middle East regional conflicts have deterred us from taking quick, strong measures against those entities that our best intelligence indicated were serious threats to produce and/or abet even more serious attacks on the homeland? IMHO, they shouldn't have.

2. How much time did we have to overcome regional dysfunctions and prep standby governments-in-waiting for the day of liberation while our enemies were no doubt seeking access to the WMD that a mass-murdering, US hater of Saddam’s ilk gave every indication of holding/developing? IMHO, there was no time to waste trying to untangle the religio-political mess in the region.

As far as I'm concerned, more variety in the possible answers to these questions is perhaps understandable six or so years down the road; but things were much less flexible back at he starting point—9/11/’01.

We are there, we should not be leaving until there is a workable solution to this, and if we do leave we will be leaving a larger, and more dangerous, vacuum than when Sadham was in power.

We are in complete agreement on this point.

33 posted on 06/29/2007 10:51:37 AM PDT by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: KarlInOhio
I still hold to the idea that the primary reason for invading Iraq was to put the last block into surrounding Iran because it is the major bad actor in the Islamic world

Makes a lot of sense to me.

34 posted on 06/29/2007 10:52:33 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (If you will try being smarter, I will try being nicer.)
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To: Plains Drifter
Clintoon should have been hung for roasting those kids and doing so with Georgia National Guard troops which is a direct violation of "posse comitatus". Reno accepted responsibility for the "oops" and went on here merry way with the catch phrase, "can't we just move on?"

I grew up in a Democratic family and looked forward to my first vote in '64. JFK was my hero and it took the likes of Johnson and the lies and licentiousness that was to follw to convince me that Regean and Republicanism was the way to go.

Recent Democrap droppings, A Sexual Predator, a lame brained polluter, and a Traitor have solidified my feelings that the party of Truman and Kennedy is long gone and in need of replacement. Replacement of parties is nothing new in US politics. The Whigs, Green Party and No Nothings are parties of the past and will soon be joined by the party of Peeloslow, Reedie and Hiltlerbilk.

35 posted on 06/29/2007 10:54:14 AM PDT by Young Werther ( and Julius Ceasar said, "quae cum ita sunt." (or since these things are so!))
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To: TeddyIke
Not strategically however

Look at a map. Where is Iraq? Stategically he who holds Iraq holds the ME. You lever apart the two major baddies, Iran and Syria plus open up another axis of attack into Syria, Iran or Saudia Arabia as needed. Plus it gives you a chance to deal with the long term instablity caused by the Kurdish Nationalists in Turkey. Strategically going into Iraq was the only option open to the USA after Afganistan.

36 posted on 06/29/2007 10:55:04 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (If you will try being smarter, I will try being nicer.)
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To: pissant; Phsstpok

You two military intellectuals will love this article.


37 posted on 06/29/2007 10:57:23 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (If you will try being smarter, I will try being nicer.)
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To: PerConPat
Just my opinion, if you plan to invade a country, ANY country, you better play it out for the years following before you invade.

Otherwise it's just flying by the seat of your pants, and I don't like my countries leaders flying by the seat of their pants.

When you fly by the seat of your pants it tends to leave your bare bottom hanging out the window.

38 posted on 06/29/2007 10:57:28 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Allegra

Hey my Babbeling Baghdad Buddy, you will like this one.


39 posted on 06/29/2007 10:58:07 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (If you will try being smarter, I will try being nicer.)
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To: MNJohnnie

Thanks for the ping. Bookmarked.


40 posted on 06/29/2007 10:59:38 AM PDT by pissant
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To: MNJohnnie
Thanks for posting this. But for,

the willfully ignorant, it is an exercise in
futility. Why? Because, in my opinion, I would
estimate the percentage of the illiterates in Dum
party is much, much higher than our Rep Party.

I would love to see a poll which breaks down illiteracy
by party.

41 posted on 06/29/2007 11:06:09 AM PDT by cliff630 (We're here. Why & How?? Great to ponder, isn't it?)
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To: rbosque

Thank them both for us.


42 posted on 06/29/2007 11:06:14 AM PDT by Fledermaus (Bush turned into a squishy liberal. He's worse than his daddy. Quit and let Cheney handle things!!)
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To: Just another Joe
You also need to be careful that the seat of your pants doesn't get blown off while you you are playing things out.
43 posted on 06/29/2007 11:08:38 AM PDT by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: Fledermaus

I will, thanks.


44 posted on 06/29/2007 11:08:54 AM PDT by rbosque ("To educate a person in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: PerConPat
You also need to be careful that the seat of your pants doesn't get blown off while you you are playing things out.

Point taken.

I believe we did the right thing by going in.
I also believe there were those that had an unrealistic view of the timeline, and they were the ones being listened to.

45 posted on 06/29/2007 11:23:09 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: MNJohnnie

Does someone have a list of the 23 whereases handy?


46 posted on 06/29/2007 11:23:53 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Just another Joe
Point taken.

And yours are, as well. I can assure you that I am far from holding the opinion that all that was done was perfection.
47 posted on 06/29/2007 11:29:02 AM PDT by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: StarCMC

Great piece by Horowitz.

We all know this stuff, but he puts it together beautifully.


48 posted on 06/29/2007 11:29:20 AM PDT by Bahbah
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To: rbosque

I’m so glad they have/are returning safe and unharmed. Please thank them for their bravery and svc!


49 posted on 06/29/2007 11:37:50 AM PDT by Tx Angel
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To: rbosque
My hearty thanks to your sons.

And to you for raising two fine Americans.

50 posted on 06/29/2007 11:48:00 AM PDT by Allegra (Socks.)
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