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Police in Plantation, Florida, say ex-Marine within his rights to shoot armed robbers in Subway
South Florida Sun Sentinel ^ | 6/29/2007 | Akilah Johnson, Andrew Tran and Juan C. Ortega

Posted on 06/29/2007 6:11:33 AM PDT by Happy Valley Dude

Some are calling a former U.S. Marine a hero for shooting two men — killing one — during the botched robbery of a sandwich shop in Plantation. But the men's friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.

John Lovell had just finished dinner at about 11:15 p.m. Wednesday when, Plantation police say, two men armed with guns rushed inside a Subway shop and demanded cash. After robbing the store, the men turned to Lovell. They wanted his money, police said.

But like his attackers, Lovell was armed.

The retired military man opened fire, shooting dead Donicio Arrindell, 22, of North Lauderdale, and critically injuring Fredrick Gadson, 21, of Fort Lauderdale.

Lovell, 71, of Plantation, has a valid concealed weapons permit and is not expected to be charged in the shooting, said police spokesman Detective Robert Rettig. Gadson, however, faces multiple felony charges that could include murder, he said. Under Florida law, anyone who commits a felony such as armed robbery resulting in a death can be held accountable for the capital offense.

"He feared for his life," Rettig said of Lovell. "And if he's in fear for his life, then he has a right to defend himself, even if it means severe bodily injury or death."

Florida law gives people the right of "self-defense without the duty to retreat." That means individuals can use deadly force virtually anywhere to prevent death or serious injury.

Lovell could not be reached for comment despite calls and visits to his home.

(Excerpt) Read more at sun-sentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 2amendment; armedcitizen; banglist; concealedcarry; constitutionalright; marines; selfdefence; supportourtroops; veteran; veterans
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Comment #1 Removed by Moderator

To: Happy Valley Dude
“But the men’s friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.”

They should have been killed as they were in the process of using guns to rob and kill their victims.

I say give the man a free cruse for doing what he should have done.

2 posted on 06/29/2007 6:15:48 AM PDT by YOUGOTIT (The Greatest Threat to our Security is the US Senate)
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To: Happy Valley Dude

She seems to have overlooked the fact that her son was in the act of committing an armed robbery.


3 posted on 06/29/2007 6:16:03 AM PDT by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws return DUE PROCESS & EQUAL PROTECTION to ALL citizens))
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To: All

“But the men’s friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.”

Because the Marine didn’t walk into a Subway trying to rob people. Oh wait to a mope, robbery isn’t a crime. It’s a way of life.


4 posted on 06/29/2007 6:17:26 AM PDT by Sir Hailstone (Graduate of Archie Bunker's School of Conservatism. . . . [http://digitalfarmers.blogspot.com])
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To: Happy Valley Dude

The family of Arrindell are apparently too flaming stupid to express regret for the behavior of their felonious family member. The Rev. Jackson should be down to Florida soon to support these people in their cause.


5 posted on 06/29/2007 6:17:28 AM PDT by Clara Lou (Fred Thompson, '08-- imwithfred.com)
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To: Happy Valley Dude

Parents like that create children such as this.


6 posted on 06/29/2007 6:17:41 AM PDT by badpacifist (I'm touching the portal of infinite knowledge right now!)
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To: Happy Valley Dude
Florida law gives people the right of "self-defense without the duty to retreat."

Make my day.....
7 posted on 06/29/2007 6:18:02 AM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (Fight Crime. Shoot Back.)
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To: Happy Valley Dude
Arrindell was struck twice — once in the head and once in the stomach — and collapsed. Officers found him face down, wearing sunglasses and a bandanna, with a gun near his left hand. Gadson was hit in the chest and ran from the store. Police dogs found him in the hedges of a nearby office building and bank.

Both men were taken to Broward General Medical Center, where Arrindell died and Gadson was in critical condition Thursday.

It's gonna be a good day, Tater.

8 posted on 06/29/2007 6:18:46 AM PDT by 300magnum (God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it. D.Webster)
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To: Happy Valley Dude
I didn't know Florida had a subway ... oh, Subway as in Jared, sandwich shops, that Subway. Nevermind /latella

WTG, retired (never ex) Marine!!!

9 posted on 06/29/2007 6:18:57 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Brian J. Marotta, 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub, (1948-2007) Rest In Peace, our FRiend)
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To: Happy Valley Dude
But the men's friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.

I want to know how someone could have a family member hold a gun to an elderly veteran's face and rob him, and not feel too embarrassed to be related to the robber to open their mouths.

10 posted on 06/29/2007 6:19:38 AM PDT by wideawake ("Pearl Harbor is America's fault, right, Mommy?" - Ron Paul, age 6, 12/7/1941)
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To: Happy Valley Dude

Beat you to it Happy Dude

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1858233/posts


11 posted on 06/29/2007 6:19:58 AM PDT by Patriot28 (1775-2006 Celebrating 231 years of excellence! Semper Fi my brothers!)
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To: Happy Valley Dude

No need for cyber justice on this.


12 posted on 06/29/2007 6:20:30 AM PDT by SmoothTalker
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To: Happy Valley Dude
Under Florida law, anyone who commits a felony such as armed robbery resulting in a death can be held accountable for the capital offense

yep, second degree murder in fact, not felony homicide as you'd hear in a Law & Order episode.

13 posted on 06/29/2007 6:20:51 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Brian J. Marotta, 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub, (1948-2007) Rest In Peace, our FRiend)
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To: Happy Valley Dude
Some are calling a former U.S. Marine a hero for shooting two men — killing one — during the botched robbery of a sandwich shop in Plantation. But the men's friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.

Because that's the law in Florida. I'm sure glad Texas just adopted the same standards for self defense as Florida.

14 posted on 06/29/2007 6:21:00 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: wideawake
I want to know how someone could have a family member hold a gun to an elderly veteran's face and rob him, and not feel too embarrassed to be related to the robber to open their mouths.

I would answer your question, but I would be labeled a racist and banned from the forum.
15 posted on 06/29/2007 6:23:57 AM PDT by Beckwith (dhimmicrats and the liberal media have chosen sides -- Islamofascism)
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To: YOUGOTIT

“But the men’s friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.”

When you engage in violence, you forfeit many normal legal protections.

Any other stooopid questions?


16 posted on 06/29/2007 6:24:28 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (I never consented to live in the Camp of the Saints.)
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To: Happy Valley Dude
"No need to let something like that live."
~J. C. Adams~
“74-Year-Old Convenience Store Owner on Walker Fatally Shoots Would-Be Robber” by Samira Jafari. Associated Press, January 10, 2003.

DECATUR, Ga. (AP) - When 74-year-old J.C. Adams saw three would-be robbers walk into his convenience store, he grabbed his shotgun with one hand and balanced himself on his walker with the other. On a surveillance monitor, he saw two men and a woman hold up an employee at the cash register Thursday night. That's when Adams pushed his walker to the front of the store and confronted the armed suspects, killing one man and wounding the other. An employee held the woman until police arrived.

"No need to let something like that live," said Adams, who had been wounded in a May 2000 robbery attempt in which he killed another intruder.

In his 26 years as owner of the Pac A Sac, a convenience store in a middle-class suburb just off Lawrenceville Highway, Adams has been robbed 12 times. He keeps the shotgun nearby now as he watches the store monitors. The walker he uses because of a recent knee surgery.

17 posted on 06/29/2007 6:25:13 AM PDT by Savage Beast (If you think like the Roman Empire you'll act like the Roman Empire--and fall like the Roman Empire!)
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To: Patriot28

This is an update.


18 posted on 06/29/2007 6:26:21 AM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (Fight Crime. Shoot Back.)
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To: YOUGOTIT
Idiots. Their children were committing crimes and threatened innocent lives. This case is open and shut self-defense. If you don't want to be a dead perp, don't commit the crime. Sheesh.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

19 posted on 06/29/2007 6:27:23 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Clara Lou
"The Rev. Jackson should be down to Florida"

Sorry he's busy raising money for the 'hooker' he gonna support thru her college days...........

20 posted on 06/29/2007 6:28:05 AM PDT by litehaus (A memory tooooo long)
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To: NonValueAdded
WTG, retired (never ex) Marine!!!

71 year old Marine! There was another Marine, 70 years old, on a tour bus in Costa Rica who killed one armed robber on a bus with his BARE HANDS, two total armed robbers, one with a knife and one with a gun! The marine took out the robber armed with the gun, the other seniors then chased away the guy with the knife.

http://www.articleblotter.com/Article/Once-a-Marine-Always-a-Marine/66356

21 posted on 06/29/2007 6:28:20 AM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: YOUGOTIT
>>>>”Arrindell, was a man with past troubles, including a 2004 arrest for carrying a concealed weapon, but he was improving his life, they said.”

This the standard sound bite after a Florida punk gets caught or killed in the commission of a major crime: “It’s such a shame. He was trying so hard to turn his life around.”

22 posted on 06/29/2007 6:29:37 AM PDT by MindBender26 (Having my own CAR-15 in Vietnam meant never having to say I was sorry......)
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To: YOUGOTIT

“how he could gun them down and not be charged...”

sounds like there are people who are getting used to being authority figures who can do whatever they choose and not call it a crime. (in some places they call it the peoples’ revolutionary guard.)

that ex-marine stood up to tyranny. (thank goodness there are people around who can still recognize it)


23 posted on 06/29/2007 6:29:57 AM PDT by ripley
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To: Happy Valley Dude
This article requires a little bit of editing.

= = = = = = = =

But the men's friends and family abetters and enablers want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.

They said their grandson sometimes hung with the wrong crowd but never got into legal trouble caught.

They said Gadson, who never finished high school, got tired of low-wage jobs and was pursuing his GED easier illegal ways of making money.

He was a man with past troubles, including a 2004 arrest for carrying a concealed weapon, but he was improving his life getting better at crime, they said. He recently bought stole a car and had a girlfriend ho.

= = = = = = = = =

There. That's more accurate.

24 posted on 06/29/2007 6:30:27 AM PDT by Dr._Joseph_Warren
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To: Beckwith

“I would answer your question, but I would be labeled a racist and banned from the forum.”

My answer to that question is the same. Take the family of the monster sentenced to death for a spree murdering and raping people. “My baby ain’t never hurt nobody”. Certain people seem to think they have the RIGHT to prey on others, like were were so much cattle.


25 posted on 06/29/2007 6:31:28 AM PDT by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: YOUGOTIT
"Some are calling a former U.S. Marine a hero for shooting two men — killing one — during the botched robbery of a sandwich shop in Plantation. But the men's friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged."

Because it was an armed robbery, meaning the robbers were armed, and they were endangering the lives of others. Mr. Lovel was NOT committing armed robbery and endangering the lives of others, he was PROTECTING CIVILIANS.

Thank God Mr. Lovell was there and that there are some people in Plantation using the sense they were born with.

With veterans, the principles don't disappear then they take off their uniforms for the last time...unlike most politicians, who's "principles" slide right into the manure pit at soon as the votes are counted.

26 posted on 06/29/2007 6:31:29 AM PDT by cake_crumb (May I never live to see the day America has a 'popular war'. God bless our troops.)
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To: YOUGOTIT

Finally, some good news.


27 posted on 06/29/2007 6:32:10 AM PDT by Dustbunny (The BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth)
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To: Happy Valley Dude
His attorney, Wesley White, of Yulee, near Jacksonville, said he has known Lovell for 19 years and described him as a "quiet Clint Eastwood-type you don't want to mess with." He is a former Marine who was a member of the helicopter detail that transported Presidents Kennedy and Johnson, White said.

Lovell, a retired Pan-Am and Delta Airline pilot, has held a concealed weapons permit since September 1990. Three months earlier, Plantation police had arrested him for having a loaded .9 mm and three extra clips behind the driver's seat of a Corvette without proper permits for the gun. The Broward State's Attorney's Office declined to file charges in that case.

Mrs Rose is Gadsden's grandmother. I understand believing your kids and grandkids are good kids "for the most part", but once they commit Armed Robbery with a weapon then they have crossed the line.

Once someone pulls a gun on you then all bets are off.

Now, a Marine who pulled Presidential detail probably is not the sort of guy that you want for a victim, especially if he has a CCP.

And a Corvette! At 71, driving a "pick-up-babes" mobile like a Vette. Yeah, give the guy a free cruise.

28 posted on 06/29/2007 6:32:28 AM PDT by texas booster (Join FreeRepublic's Folding@Home team (Team # 36120) Cure Alzheimer's!)
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To: SmoothTalker
No need for cyber justice on this.

I'm conflicted on that. I agree that piling on to the family at this point is cruel - unless they keep making stupid (ok, naive to give them the benefit) statements like the one they made.

However, just about anyone who frequents this forum can readily spot the recipe for disaster that is outlined in the last part of that article. The adults didn't have a clue? Well, probably so, and thus they failed their children and grandchildren miserably.

Will the pastor take the end of the story to his pulpit and instead of bemoaning the loss of the grandson, berate the parishioners that this is what could happen to their children if they don't straighten them out while still in school, to provide the moral guidance desperately lacking in today's youth culture? because THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO!!! Otherwise, his flock is lost. All are punish-ed, said the bard.

29 posted on 06/29/2007 6:32:47 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Brian J. Marotta, 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub, (1948-2007) Rest In Peace, our FRiend)
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To: wideawake
Okay, this is NOT PC but, oh well.

There is a certain type of black down here in certain inner cites, that don’t believe that carrying a gun and using it to commit a felony is any big deal.

I suppose there may be other races and ethnic groups that feel this way, but the black community has this subset within it, and it is heavily invested by several semi unknown churches/church groups where pastors, or whatever they are, give flaming sermons about the death penalty and penalties of blacks in general, and those under 18, well hell, they can’t be punished for anything.

I don’t really know if these are simply race baiting caricatures of the Reverends Sharpton and jackson - reverends of what church? - or if they are advancing a political agenda itself, but the result is the same.

Hey, when that child took a pistol into school and shot his teacher - a nice guy, BTW - DEAD and ON video tape, nobody raised a big stink about that, but the sentencing of him was all everyone talked about.

They have zero shame and do not believe that real punishment extends to them, since they are all “victims” of being black.

30 posted on 06/29/2007 6:33:36 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: badpacifist

-—But the men’s friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged. -—

The parents should be charged with conspiracy to commit armed robbery.


31 posted on 06/29/2007 6:33:47 AM PDT by claudiustg (You know it. I know it.)
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To: MindBender26

He was trying to turn his life around. He was hoping to commit crimes and not get caught. Guess he won’t get to practise his trade anymore. Ah well, another robber succumbs to an occupational hazard.


32 posted on 06/29/2007 6:35:46 AM PDT by hometoroost (TSA = Thousands Standing Around)
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To: claudiustg

And murder.


33 posted on 06/29/2007 6:35:59 AM PDT by claudiustg (You know it. I know it.)
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To: YOUGOTIT
But the men's friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.

Ok, who has the picture of the little violin?

34 posted on 06/29/2007 6:36:09 AM PDT by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: cake_crumb

great work Marine..OUTSTANDING!!


35 posted on 06/29/2007 6:36:15 AM PDT by itsLUCKY2B (?Borders, Language, and Culture.?)
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To: texas booster
To be fair about the Vette, every household headed by those over 65 down here has at least one blue haired grand mom driving a Vette.

Actually, it is funnier than all get out, and is one big reason I won’t buy one!

36 posted on 06/29/2007 6:36:57 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Sir Hailstone
Its a shame that Mr. Lovell didn't kill both of these mofo's.

Now we will have to deal with Fredrick Gadson sometime in the future..we can all hope that Fred don't kill any innocents in the mean time.

37 posted on 06/29/2007 6:37:39 AM PDT by B.O. Plenty (Give war a chance......Keep your powder dry)
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To: Sir Hailstone

‘It’s a way of life.’ Yeh, it was his dream career of choice, don’t you know.


38 posted on 06/29/2007 6:37:48 AM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: Sir Hailstone

‘It’s a way of life.’ Yeh, it was his dream career of choice, don’t you know.


39 posted on 06/29/2007 6:37:52 AM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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Lovell, a retired Pan-Am and Delta Airline pilot, has held a concealed weapons permit since September 1990. Three months earlier, Plantation police had arrested him for having a loaded .9 mm and three extra clips behind the driver's seat of a Corvette without proper permits for the gun. The Broward State's Attorney's Office declined to file charges in that case.

The Broward State's Attorney's Office no doubt wants as many law-abiding armed citizens as possible to be out there helping with crime control.

She and her husband, Ivory Jones, pastor of a Fort Lauderdale church, . . . They said their grandson sometimes hung with the wrong crowd but never got into legal trouble. According to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, he has no arrest record.

Well he's sure as heck in some legal trouble now. And something tells me he had no ADULT arrest record, which is very different from having no arrest record.

Gadson was hit in the chest and ran from the store. Police dogs found him in the hedges of a nearby office building and bank.

Shoulda left him there til he was good and dead.

Arrindell, friends said, found himself in a similar situation: no high school diploma and working odd jobs. So he went back to school. He was a man with past troubles, including a 2004 arrest for carrying a concealed weapon, but he was improving his life, they said. He recently bought a car and had a girlfriend.

Maybe if his friends and family had asked a few more questions about where he got the money to buy that car, they could have doen some aggressive intervention in his life then, and he'd still be alive now. They need to take a long look at themselves in the mirror.

On a very serious note, it's WAY past time the RKBA movement got to work removing the "SELF" from laws permitting shooting in self-defense. Mr. Lovell shouldn't have had to wait until the perps turned on him to legally shoot them. He should have been perfectly free to shoot them while they were focusing on the cashier, without fear of prosecution.

40 posted on 06/29/2007 6:38:23 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Savage Beast
""No need to let something like that live"

'nuff said.

41 posted on 06/29/2007 6:39:08 AM PDT by cake_crumb (May I never live to see the day America has a 'popular war'. God bless our troops.)
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To: Sir Hailstone

m But he was a good boy.S


42 posted on 06/29/2007 6:39:36 AM PDT by Unicorn (Too many wimps around.)
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To: Sir Hailstone

“But the men’s friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.”

Five will get you ten that the surviving perp, surrounded by newly arrived lawyers hoping for a contingency fee, will announce from his taxpayer-funded hospital bed that he’s suing the Marine for being shot while trying to make a living. “That mean ol’ Jarhead — he creatin’ a hostile workplace!”


43 posted on 06/29/2007 6:40:12 AM PDT by Clioman
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To: texas booster
And a Corvette! At 71, driving a "pick-up-babes" mobile like a Vette. Yeah, give the guy a free cruise.

Have no idea if he still has the Vette, but it said that happened in 1990 when he would have been 54-years old.
44 posted on 06/29/2007 6:42:08 AM PDT by NorthFlaRebel
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To: YOUGOTIT
But the men's friends and family want to know how he could gun them down and not be charged.

Cuz folks, some people just need killin.
45 posted on 06/29/2007 6:42:40 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: claudiustg
The parents should be charged with conspiracy to commit armed robbery.

The family was probably benefiting from the loot of the man's criminal career, which is why they're so upset

46 posted on 06/29/2007 6:43:48 AM PDT by PapaBear3625
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To: YOUGOTIT
They said their grandson sometimes hung with the wrong crowd but never got into legal trouble. According to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, he has no arrest record. They said Gadson, who never finished high school, got tired of low-wage jobs and was pursuing his GED.

Yes, of course, we've all heard that before. But they left out the "aspiring rapper" part. And they also forgot to mention that he was thinking about asking his latest baby-mama if he could move in with her. C'mon Granny, stick to the script!

-ccm

47 posted on 06/29/2007 6:47:58 AM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: NorthFlaRebel

Good catch. Still, it looks like the Vette is almost mandatory for old guys in Florida, and then for their widows when they pass (see post 36).


48 posted on 06/29/2007 6:48:00 AM PDT by texas booster (Join FreeRepublic's Folding@Home team (Team # 36120) Cure Alzheimer's!)
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To: bill1952

-—They have zero shame and do not believe that real punishment extends to them, since they are all “victims” of being black.-—

They don’t feel guilt, only a sense that something has unexpectedly gone wrong.

The only time they’ll possibly feel shame is when they are publicly dragged out and hung. It exposes them as powerless failures. Our ancestors realized this very well.


49 posted on 06/29/2007 6:48:10 AM PDT by claudiustg (You know it. I know it.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

The “friends and family” need to be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.


50 posted on 06/29/2007 6:49:22 AM PDT by Little Ray (Rudy Guiliani: If his wives can't trust him, why should we?)
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