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What's the Rush?
ProLifeblogs ^ | June 27 2007 | plb

Posted on 07/01/2007 3:27:40 AM PDT by 8mmMauser

Edited on 07/02/2007 4:50:59 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

That's the question Bobby Schindler asked in the case involving Jesse Ramirez, the Arizona man whose case paralleled that of Schindler's sister, Terri Schiavo, until Ramirez woke up. The Arizona Republic reports:

...Bobby Schindler of the Florida-based Terri Schindler Shiavo Foundation placed the blame on a medical establishment quick to dismiss patients with brain injuries.

Schindler is the brother of Terri Schiavo, a brain-damaged Florida woman who died in 2005 after a decades-long court battle.

"What is the rush?" he asked. "This is not the first time we've heard of cases like this where doctors want to write off the chance of recovery, and the family, when they're told this, will make a decision to end a person's life.

"In the case of Mr. Ramirez, he'd be dead now."

Why is Jesse alive? His family sought legal intervention with the help of the Alliance Defense Fund:
His siblings and parents refused to give him up for dead, and today, Jesse Ramirez is alive and conscious.

Two weeks ago, he was the center of a family battling over of whether he should live or die.

Now, he can hug and kiss, nod his head, answer yes and no questions, give a thumbs-up sign and sit in a chair.

Related:

A Miracle for Jesse Ramirez and His Family

Jesse Ramirez Conscious, Moved To Rehab Facility

Accident victim awakens


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: civilrights; giannajessen; jebbush; jesseramirez; jgreer; medialies; parentsrights; schindler; terridailies; terrischiavo
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To: wagglebee
We should remind our visitors that the Terri's Daily threads are for supporting the right of cognitively disabled people to live. This thread is not for debating whether or not they have that right. It's not for debating whether some imaginary right that they do not wish to excercise takes precedence over the right to life.

Before posting to this, or any thread, FReepers should read and understand Statement by the founder of Free Republic.


21 posted on 07/01/2007 11:54:26 AM PDT by BykrBayb (This tagline in memory of FReeper 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub ~ )
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To: BykrBayb; 8mmMauser; T'wit
We should remind our visitors that the Terri's Daily threads are for supporting the right of cognitively disabled people to live. This thread is not for debating whether or not they have that right.

Hell, we've had a hard enough time lately getting the trolls to understand that Free Republic is for CONSERVATIVES!

22 posted on 07/01/2007 12:01:13 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 8mmMauser

What’s the Rush? Her husband wanted to get married to his fiance and did not have time to wait for her to die so he helped her out. He is scum but unfortunately she is not coming back to life.


23 posted on 07/01/2007 12:05:53 PM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: napscoordinator

Jesse Ramirez (who this article is about) is much more fortunate. Many are not. See post 19. It’s wonderful to have a place to gather so we can help people like Terri Schiavo, Jesse Ramirez, Ora Mae Maguirk, and the many others who are targeted for death for the “crime” of being cognitively disabled.


24 posted on 07/01/2007 12:11:16 PM PDT by BykrBayb (This tagline in memory of FReeper 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub ~ )
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To: BykrBayb

The site scared me because Pennsylvania kills folks like this at a high rate...at least higher than the national average. I will have to be very vigilant when or if my parents, siblings, wife, kids etc are ever in this position.


25 posted on 07/01/2007 12:13:49 PM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: napscoordinator

I suspect that the majority of the people starved and dehydrated to death have family members that just don’t realize what’s going on. The medical staff uses euphemisms to fool the less informed into believing they’re doing their loved ones a favor. I hope people are becoming more informed about this barbaric practice. I know my family is better informed.


26 posted on 07/01/2007 12:18:02 PM PDT by BykrBayb (This tagline in memory of FReeper 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub ~ )
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To: BykrBayb

Personal experiences in recent years with such situations occurred both in Rhode Island and Oregon. Looks like they are the top two killer states. At least Maine is down the list. Of course we are pretty well armed, so if they come for me...


27 posted on 07/01/2007 1:01:22 PM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: 8mmMauser

BUMP


28 posted on 07/01/2007 4:33:13 PM PDT by Dante3
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To: 8mmMauser

Euthanasia Blues


29 posted on 07/01/2007 7:48:43 PM PDT by BykrBayb (This tagline in memory of FReeper 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub ~ )
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Jesse Ramirez update...

.................................

"Right now he is sleeping comfortably."

Disappointed but not discouraged, Teresea Ramirez, the mother of Jesse Ramirez talked with 12 News after her son was transfered from hospice to a health care facility in Mesa.

It's a milepost of sorts for Jessie. A small step in what promises to be a long road toward recovery. While Teresa sees the new surroundings as a step up for her son, it is not where she would like him to be. Teresa says, "Jesse belongs where there's 24 hour nursing, 24 hour doctor care and where he has speech therapy, physical therapy, and they check his vision."

Last month Jesse suffered severe brain injuries when the SUV he was driving crashed. Both Ramirez and his wife Rebecca were ejected from the car. He was alive but unresponsive in the hospital when his wife decided to move him to a hospice facility. After ten days, she made the decision to pull his feeding tube.

That triggered a court battle between family members who wanted to keep Jesse on the feeding tube and his wife who thought it was time to let go. A judge ordered the feeding tube reinserted. Days later Ramirez began showing signs of life. Recognizing voices. Doctors called it a miracle.

Since then Teresa Ramirez says her son continues to show signs of improvement. Ramirez says, "He's gotten to be pretty strong on his hands because he'll pull himself up on the rail to a sitting position almost."

Small steps.

Jesse Ramirez takes one step in road to recovery.

8mm


30 posted on 07/02/2007 2:55:27 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All; T'wit; wagglebee; bjs1779; TheSarce; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; amdgmary

BykrBayb, on your post #29 just above, I was stunned at watching the YouTube clip on euthanasia. They did an amazing job of pulling together the truths. I strongly recommend viewing it to all. Thanks for the find.

8mm


31 posted on 07/02/2007 3:07:59 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All
No surprise the Living Will perspective appears in the case of Jesse Ramirez.

The recent brush with death for Jesse Ramirez of Chandler, and last year’s attempt by Congress to intervene on behalf of Terry Schiavo, grabbed the public’s attention because such rare legal dramas involve the highest possible stakes — life and the quality of that life.

While usually taking place in private, intense and emotional clashes between family members who disagree strongly on the best course for treatment occur frequently in hospital rooms and hospice centers across the country. Many loved ones fear that making the wrong choice will lead to the unusual nightmare that Ramirez faced before a court stepped in — condemned to die by withholding food and water when it turns out he still has a good chance of survival and recovery.

Far more often, the inevitable outcome is simply delayed for weeks or months (or in Schiavo’s case for years), as families and loved ones argue with each other and wrestle with their own consciences about whether to hold out or to let go. In a variety of situations, the question isn’t a clear “let her live or die?” Instead the issue can be a series of trade-offs involving different forms of treatment: Should a limb be amputated? How much risk is acceptable in emergency surgery? What should be done about unexpected complications?

Living will helps ease loved ones’ burden

8mm

32 posted on 07/02/2007 3:11:51 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All; greyfoxx39; wagglebee
Sounds like right-to-be-kept-in-the-dark goes hand in hand with right-to-die kill. Greyfoxx39 brings us a thread on a mind boggling perspective of the death worshippers. Thanks for the ping, wagglebee.

The increasing use of ultrasound exams at crisis pregnancy centers brings criticism from clinics that provide abortion. They see its use as manipulating pregnant women. Eve Espey, obstetrician/gynecologist at University of New Mexico Health Sciences Center, said CPCs are looking at legislation to force women to view an ultrasound before having an abortion.

"I think it's very much a coercive measure," said Espey, "because I think it gets back to your basic right to have the information you want to have."

Ultrasounds Used To Change Minds

8mm

33 posted on 07/02/2007 3:20:44 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All
As a frequent reminder of why we persevere, we have the happier times now of Scott Thomas. Visitors who scoff at such efforts may check out the site, Scott's Fight to see the horror from which Scott emerged.

Here is a picture of Scott in more recent times...

Check out the new pictures in the Photo Gallery of this man who would have been killed by the wishes of his spouse.

8mm

34 posted on 07/02/2007 3:33:17 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: BykrBayb

Great job. Everybody should see this video and reflect on it. Are we decent compassionate people, or do we kill the weak and helpless so we don’t have to bother with them?


35 posted on 07/02/2007 4:06:24 AM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: you come here expecting a turkey shoot, and then you find out that you are the turkey.)
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To: 8mmMauser

That’s the difference between Jesse’s family and Terri’s hino. As in everything, follow the money.


36 posted on 07/02/2007 7:49:14 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: mtbopfuyn

Meant to add - besided following the money, one should look at how has the most to gain in them NOT waking up.


37 posted on 07/02/2007 7:51:11 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: mtbopfuyn
Jesse Ramirez update...

................................

Jesse Ramirez unintentionally became the center of significant controversy after a car accident left him in a "minimally conscious" state. Ten days into his recovery his wife decided to withdraw what I consider to be basic care by removing his feeding tube. Jesse was also transferred to a hospice.

In response, his family took legal action and, with the assistance of the Alliance Defense Fund, were successful in restoring basic care. In addition, the presiding judge appointed Judith Morse as Jesse's guardian ad litem with the agreement of the parties

Late last week, an attorney knowledgeable about the case provided an insightful view of Jesse's situation in this article, clearing up a number of misimpressions and mistakes made in the reporting of the case. For instance, a gag order was never put in place and, from a legal perspective, Jesse's wife never had the authority to direct medical personnel to remove his feeding tube. In addition, reports of Jesse waking up (more here) appear to have been somewhat inaccurate:

On Tuesday, June 26, 2007, the parties gathered for another hearing. After the parties met behind closed doors for about an hour, Ms. Morse presented her report in court. She noted that the parties had agreed (1) that she would select a neurologist to evaluate Jesse's current condition, (2) that she would select a third party to serve as Jesse's guardian, (3) that they would dismiss Scottsdale Healthcare and Hospice of the Valley from the case, and (4) that all further communications with hospice or hospital employees would be through counsel.

Then Ms. Morse reported that she had already located a neurologist who would evaluate Jesse's condition. In fact, after a preliminary examination over the weekend, he had concluded that Jesse was conscious and responsive. Ms. Morse summarized the doctor's findings by saying that Jesse is aware of who he is, aware of who his family is, and is responding to oral commands. As a result, she noted that Jesse will soon be transferred to another facility for rehabilitation, therapy, and further medical care.

Although it does not appear that Jesse suddenly "woke up", the fact that he was in a conscious and responsive condition appears to validate the prior assertions by his family and impugn the decisions and actions by others who stopped feeding him.

Those following the case should read the entire article (click here).

We continue to receive reports regarding Jesse's treatment and hope to provide an update for our readers in the next couple of days.

The case of Jesse Ramirez

8mm


38 posted on 07/03/2007 3:32:05 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Jesse Ramirez update above!

8mm


39 posted on 07/03/2007 3:33:36 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All
Here is a topic spurred by Terri's Legacy on Advanced Planning.

Advance directives promise patients a say in their future care but actually have had little effect. Many experts blame problems with completion and implementation, but the advance directive concept itself may be fundamentally flawed. Advance directives simply presuppose more control over future care than is realistic. Medical crises cannot be predicted in detail, making most prior instructions difficult to adapt, irrelevant, or even misleading. Furthermore, many proxies either do not know patients' wishes or do not pursue those wishes effectively. Thus, unexpected problems arise often to defeat advance directives, as the case in this paper illustrates. Because advance directives offer only limited benefit, advance care planning should emphasize not the completion of directives but the emotional preparation of patients and families for future crises. The existentialist Albert Camus might suggest that physicians should warn patients and families that momentous, unforeseeable decisions lie ahead. Then, when the crisis hits, physicians should provide guidance; should help make decisions despite the inevitable uncertainties; should share responsibility for those decisions; and, above all, should courageously see patients and families through the fearsome experience of dying.

~Snip~

Flawed in concept and not just use, advance directives provide little control over future care (6, 7, 64). The last-minute objections to comfort care by Mr. Jones's daughter illustrate the many unexpected problems that can defeat advance directives. Thus, I urge deemphasizing advance directives while searching for better approaches to advance care planning. Camus's ideas suggest one approach that stresses honest communication (33, 57, 75); preparation of patients and families for death's harsh and unpredictable reality (7, 66); mutual support; nonformulaic, individualized care; and courageous decision making despite uncertainties. At the end of Camus' The Plague, the main character—a physician named Rieux—reflects on his role throughout the plague epidemic. He realizes that, along with providing care that had to be given "by all who strive ... to be healers," he bore witness to patients' suffering (76). Physicians surely have the duty to fight disease in most circumstances, but physicians always have the still greater duty to see patients and survivors through their suffering and thereby to bear witness to it. Perhaps that greater duty lifts medicine from a mere occupation to a true profession.

Controlling Death: The False Promise of Advance Directives

8mm

40 posted on 07/03/2007 3:38:59 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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