Posted on 07/01/2007 5:53:24 AM PDT by LouAvul
Ten years later, officials say gun-carrying citizens responsible, deterring crime.
If the number of concealed-handgun license holders is any indication, robbers may have to worry about getting more than stolen goods during a heist.
With an increasing number of state residents legally packing heat, more robbers may be taking away some hot lead.
More than 54,000 Oklahomans are licensed to carry concealed handguns under the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, said Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. That number is up from around 31,000 in 2000 and 15,081 in 1996, after the first year of licensing. Once approved, applicants are licensed to carry concealed weapons for five years. After five years, they are required to renew their application.
In the beginning, some people thought a wave of shootings by license holders would occur, but those fears have proved to be unfounded, Brown said.
"There's very little of that, quite frankly," she said. "Most people don't want to hurt each other."
(Excerpt) Read more at tulsaworld.com ...
Because the media told people to feeeeeeel that way.
Concealed truth in the media is far more dangerous than any citizen’s concealed weapon.
--the wisdom of the ages--that any of us with common sense knew from the beginning--
there are probably far more firearms being carried or available to citizens than those licensed to be carrid.
Many feel that they would rather be fined for carrying a concealed weapon than killed for not having one.
Pity such common sense is so lacking in the MSM.
Bump...
It takes Florida three months to process
That’s good. I wish that everyone who can, and is willing to take firearm safety courses, would start to carry. That may just give the jihadis a few moments of worry.
As a group, CCW holders are less likely to commit violent crimes than law enforcement officers or members of the clergy.
“It takes Florida three months to process”
It took me 5 trips to the police station to get finger printed. They screwed every single one up as well. From smudging them to printing them to the wrong place on the card. After the 5th time the state told me they still weren’t good enough but by law they couldn’t require another try.
Even though I have the permit it still rankles that we have to have a permit to exercise our Constitutional right.
10-4
My intent is to get every one in my immediate family the CCW permit, trained and armed.
I live in the Tampa area, up the I-4 corridor from Orlando which is currently going though a serious crime wave, mostly from illegals.
They are cracking down big time so I assume the criminals will be moving to Tampa where it will take the local government years to catch up.
Because of the property tax issues, as in less taxes, the local county governments are cutting back on spending, laying off people and not hiring anyone, so I don't expect any positive reaction at all to an increase in crime
Ink and papper has a fifty percent failure rate. The new computerized method has only a ten percent failure rate because they are scanning your fingers.
I’ve been lucky the first time I had mine done was by a very small female technician who explained exactly what she needed for my prints. I have been repeating that method every time I go in so I haven’t had a failure yet. I think I have had my prints done about seven times by now. Three for the Concealed Carry License and about four for the Civilian Marksmanship Program.
Too early in the morning to spell “Paper”? Sorry.
Just got my CCW in Idaho last month and finally convinced the wife to get her application going. We both believe that no one can guarantee our safety except us through proper preparation and training. It is nice to see the real facts about lawful citizens carrying the means of their own defense. Not the “wild west” the liberals said it would be. I really believe liberalism is a mental disorder.
I suspect one of the safest places on Earth is a gun show.
“Even though I have the permit it still rankles that we have to have a permit to exercise our Constitutional right.”
You don’t “have to have” a permit to exercise your Constitutional right. All you have to do is exercise your God-give rights.
I do not concealed carry. If I want to, I will. No permit required. I am willing to take the risk that I will be fined, but that is a different matter.
I suspect lack of a permit will not impede most citizens who feel the need to carry.
“They also are instructed on how to tell a police officer — should they come into contact with one — that they have a concealed weapon.”
This is a vital bit of information, for an unusual reason.
Because, as they noted, CC holders are rarely approached by policemen; ironically, it is the CC holders who more often than other citizens approach a policeman, to be helpful.
When you are approached by a policeman, he usually is paying a lot of attention to you for several seconds, using his judgment to determine if you are a risk or not. Most CC holders don’t look like high risk threats, so the policeman will be fairly relaxed.
However, when you approach a policeman, there is a good chance that he has been paying attention to someone or something else, so he has far less time to make a judgment call about you. You are entering his “space”. And *this* is why identifying that you are a CC holder is at least as important as why you want to talk with him in the first place, under normal circumstances. You want to quickly ID yourself as not a threat.
Ironically, this is just the opposite of what you want to do with civilians, in that keeping your weapon concealed is one of the big advantages of having a weapon.
“I’m taking my CCW permit class this Tuesday.
It takes Florida three months to process”
Florida give out of state residents CCW permits. I have one and I live in Maryland. It is not good here but it is good in 23 other states. Very easy process and good for 5 years. I have used it in surrounding states.
I believe that those of us who highly cherish the 2nd Article in the Bill of rights, would do everything in our power to AVOID ANYTHING that would prevent us from from exercising that right. Thus, few permit holders commit crimes.
““They also are instructed on how to tell a police officer — should they come into contact with one — that they have a concealed weapon.””
The first thing to do is produce your permit and say whether or not you are carrying. I called 3 police stations in PA, where my Florida permit is good, before I went on vacation there. I asked if my Florida permit was accepted by PA and all said no. I had to tell them to go to the PA Attorney General’s web site for education. Before I left I printed the page from the site that listed reciprocal states that honor Florida’s permit. BE CAREFUL. It would ruin a good vacation if you get taken in for lawful carry due to ignorant LEO’s.
Did you see the movie, "Showtime" ?
I liked it better than its 5.3 star rating. But then, I'm 53 years old.
Good for you.
Make sure you take a safety class and go to the range as often as possible.
Join the NRA.
Ditto that.
Armed and Licensed: Concealed carry law hitting mark
by: CLIFTON ADCOCK World Staff Writer
7/1/2007
Ten years later, officials say gun-carrying citizens responsible, deterring crime.
If the number of concealed-handgun license holders is any indication, robbers may have to worry about getting more than stolen goods during a heist.
With an increasing number of state residents legally packing heat, more robbers may be taking away some hot lead.
More than 54,000 Oklahomans are licensed to carry concealed handguns under the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, said Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. That number is up from around 31,000 in 2000 and 15,081 in 1996, after the first year of licensing. Once approved, applicants are licensed to carry concealed weapons for five years. After five years, they are required to renew their application.
In the beginning, some people thought a wave of shootings by license holders would occur, but those fears have proved to be unfounded, Brown said.
"There's very little of that, quite frankly," she said. "Most people don't want to hurt each other."
Former state Sen. Frank Shurden, who sponsored the bill that led to the law, said he had tried to get the bill through the Legislature for several years but that fears of more shootings and of a more dangerous work environment for law enforcement officers held it back.
"They didn't have confidence in law-abiding citizens like I did, but they do now," said Shurden, a Democrat from Henryetta. "They claimed that every fender bender would be a shootout."
Shurden said he is pleased with the law's results more than 10 years after it went into effect.
"They (license holders) have to be good, upstanding people. That's one reason it worked so well," he said.
"I've always been of the opinion that when good, law-abiding citizens are armed, we're all safer. I'm real satisfied with the way the law is working."
Robert Welch, a Tulsa concealed-weapon license instructor, and Tulsa Police Officer Jason Willingham both noted that there have been instances in which a license holder has foiled a robbery or other crime.
Last November, a man who Tulsa police say had just committed a burglary, stolen a car and fled from police crashed the car and then accosted a bystander with a knife. The victim, a concealed-handgun license holder, pulled his weapon on the man, prompting him to flee.
In March 2006, a customer with a concealed-handgun license shot an armed man who was attempting to rob a supermarket near 91st Street and Memorial Drive.
This year in the Tulsa area, there have been three shootings -- one fatal -- by people who have concealed-carry licenses. Police say the two shootings in Tulsa were sparked by traffic altercations that became physical and ended with the license holders shooting people they said had physically assaulted them.
In the first shooting, which occurred at 18th Street and Boston Avenue in April, police say a motorist who had to stop for a pedestrian shot the pedestrian's friend during a resulting altercation. The man who was shot was treated at a hospital and released. The motorist was charged with recklessly handling a firearm and has pleaded not guilty.
On June 10, police say a retired security guard fatally shot a man during a road-rage-sparked confrontation in a parking lot in the 1900 block of Riverside Drive. The retired guard told police that he feared for his life when the other man verbally and physically assaulted him. He has not been charged with any crime.
In Muskogee last weekend, police said a pastor who holds a concealed-weapon license shot a man who, along with some juveniles, tried to rob his church's fireworks tent. The minister said he feared for his life and that of the teenager who was watching the tent with him.
The shooting victim was arrested in connection with the burglary attempt after he was released from the hospital, police said.
Willingham said that, in their duties, most police officers rarely come across concealed-handgun license holders.
"Most people who go through the trouble of getting a concealed-carry permit are not committing crimes," he said. "By and large, the people with concealed-carry permits are not the ones we're coming in contact with."
Welch agreed.
"Most goofballs and hot heads don't think to go and get a permit," he said. "Mostly, it's people who are law-abiding in nature."
Brown and Welch said increased exposure to terrorism, war and violent crime through the media may play a role in why more people are arming themselves.
During classes applicants must take before they can obtain a license, they must show that they know how to shoot and properly handle a firearm.
They also are instructed on how to tell a police officer -- should they come into contact with one -- that they have a concealed weapon.
"Do we worry? No," Willingham said. "We know people with concealed-carry permits are not the type of people out there committing crimes. Your gang-bangers, armed robbers -- they're not the ones going through the class and paying the fee."
Clifton Adcock 918-581-8367
clifton.adcock@tulsaworld.com
The only people in Maryland that pack guns are the drug dealers and users. 155 dead so far this year.
The risk you are willing to take may be greater than you think. One possibility is that your illegal carrying could result in a felony conviction thus terminating your right to even purchase a firearm let alone obtaining a permit in the future.
Lots of laws suck but its better following the law than kicking yourself in the butt later for trying to prove a point......
“I do not concealed carry. If I want to, I will. No permit required. I am willing to take the risk that I will be fined, but that is a different matter.”
I’m willing to be fined. I’m not willing to get shot or to be convicted of a felony.
The joys of living in a socialist utopia......
We must tote a concerning mindset toward the idea that most people do want to hurt each other for if we do, we need liberal dogma to guide us and direct us.
Thus, liberals insist that all we want is to hurt each other and we need their guidance to save us from each other.
I bet that not one of the stat's cited is a drug dealer.
“Pity such common sense is so lacking in the MSM.”
It escapes most liberals b/c they only see things as they want them to be - no common sense there.
Another huge victory for gun owners!
“Your gang-bangers, armed robbers — they’re not the ones going through the class and paying the fee.”
And neither should law abiding citizens. Class going and fee paying that is. :)
Good ol' Maryland. Theoretically it's a CCW state but just try to get one. As for recognizing other states' permits, Maryland recognizes none. That would be as in "zero". What a state! A state only liberals would love.
Class? Three months? What BS. You should be able to march down to the local PD, go through an instant background check, and get the damned permit.
Oklahoma didn't become the "Gunshine State"?? (to the degree that it wasn't already armed to the teeth that is. :)
I don't see anything like "who are willing to take firearm safety course" modifying "the people" in the second amendment.
Besides, if OK's process is anything like Texas, no "safety" classes are required. Just a class on the law, and a test to see that you can kinda sorta hit what you are aiming at. I guess that could be considered a "safety" test, but I'd call it a competency test myself. The standard of accuracy is not high. I've never heard of anyone flunking the shooting test, although some must I suppose, since the Bell Curve has very long tails. :)
I'm not so sure about that. Yes it extends deterrence to the general public, since the scumbags can't know for certain who is armed and who is not... but since most scumbags aren't that completely brain dead, they will figure that since most people do not have CHLs and are not generally armed, the odds are with them (which they are, but the consequences of guessing wrong are pretty stiff). OTOH, if they know you are armed, they will likely go looking for easier prey. So being openly armed would have the effect of making you less likely to be attacked, and you still have the option of 'extending deterrence" to others by coming to their aid should they be attacked.
I would disagree to a point
Having just taken my class, the vast majority of the content was concerning firearm possession, what constitutes deadly force, what is self defense, all this things as proscribed in the laws.
The last thing a law abiding citizen needs is to be arrested for a felony because of ignorance of the law simply because he walked into a situation like carrying into a local bar or strip club, which is a felony in Florida
The class also included firearm safety, proper handling of your weapon, proper stance for firing, target acquisition and actual range time both two handed and single handed.
I personally don't want any joe sho being able to walk into any PD and walk away with the ability to carry a deadly weapon with at least a general knowledge of what the hell he is doing.
The class was three hours, the state is not asking a lot from someone who might have to make a life or death decision in 4 to 5 seconds
BTW, Florida is very, very firearm friendly
Bump
Such an attitude is one step from, "I don't want any Joe to be able to walk around with a loaded firearm". Which in turn is one step from not wanting poor old Joe to have a firearm at all."
The langauge of the highest law of the land is "shall not be infringed". Once you get away from that, it's a very slippery slope.
Florida's Constitution originally read: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and of the lawful authority of the state shall not be infringed", then they added "except that the manner of bearing arms may be regulated by law." Then they added "There shall be a mandatory period of three days, excluding weekends and legal holidays, between the purchase and delivery at retail of any handgun. For the purposes of this section, “purchase” means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration to the retailer, and “handgun” means a firearm capable of being carried and used by one hand, such as a pistol or revolver."
Then in a tiny bit of climb back up the slope, under proper permission from the State" they added "Holders of a concealed weapon permit as prescribed in Florida law shall not be subject to the provisions of this paragraph. (c) . . . anyone violating the provisions of subsection (b) shall be guilty of a felony. (d) This restriction shall not apply to a trade in of another handgun.” (the earlier language may not have been exactly as indicated, but the meaning was the same, other than as applied to slaves and their decendants)
The slope is very slippery indeed. At least Florida bothered amending their constitution. Other states, just ignored theirs. Texas had a similar provision to the first amendment shown above, and then just did the rest under that authority. Nebraska's *Citizens* (rather than their Legislature) amended their Constitution to add "for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes" and still the State Supreme Court has refused to strike down any laws on carrying or possession.
Notice that those three states are generally considered more "gun friendly" than the norm.
Since the Goofballs and hot heads, not to mention all sorts of other criminal types, don't bother to get the permit, the law, as other gun laws, only affect the law abiding. The only good thing about CHL laws is that they at least free up the decent citizens to do what in the absence of laws against carrying weapons, concealed or otherwise, they would do anyway. Thus CHL laws are a "fix" to laws which shouldn't have been passed in the first place, and which are generally speaking in violation of the Constitution of the United States and often of particular state of the union as well. A simple repeal of the bad law would have been more in keeping with the principals of the rule of law and the requirements of the higher law(s).
You are making huge leaps here based on my statements. I am not advocating any such thing.
Any adult, except convicted felons, should be able to purchase a firearm for self protection that day.
We ask people to be able to pass a driving test anyone above a moron could pass
I do not think it too great a burden to ask an adult who takes personal self defense seriously to be informed about the law and understand the safe practice of a firearm if they are going to carry a concealed weapon in public.
Sounds real reasonable, now. Let’s say your state becomes less fireamrs friendly, and this class you are so happy with changes into a way to refuse you permission to ccw. “Sorry, class is full.” “Sorry, we have no funding to have classes this year.” “Sorry, you failed the class.” “Sorry, your pistol doesn’t conform to our standards.” Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
Don’t be ignorant of the law. Look it up on your states’s web sites.
Want to learn how to shoot? Go to a private range.
I never advocated that “any joe sho” be able to obtain a ccw. A criminal background check will ensure that convicts don’t get a ccw.
A three hour class isn’t going to do dick as far as teaching you shoot/don’t shoot. You must have a good idea of when to shoot long before you have a problem.
Never said you were. But others are and have in the past. I just pointed out that yours is one of the first steps on the slippery slope. The first steps are always easy, and appear "reasonable" or at least "harmless".
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