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Heads up --- The God Delusion Debate : October 3, 2007 (Prof. Richard Dawkins vs Dr. John Lennox)
Fixed Point Foundation ^

Posted on 07/01/2007 1:31:54 PM PDT by SirLinksalot

"The God Delusion" Debate

Wednesday, October 3, 2007

The Alys Stephens Center

Birmingham, Alabama



Remaining true to our goal of engaging secular culture on critical issues in a thoughtful, respectful manner, Fixed Point Foundation will sponsor a debate on what is arguably the most critical question of our time: the existence of God. The decision one makes regarding this question has implications that reverberate throughout eternity to be sure, but it also affects temporal existence from government policy to the individual. Historically, man’s belief in the transcendent has served as a restraint on his conduct and provided hope for his future. Now, it is argued, “God is dead”, and man can do very well without him.

The debate will feature Professor Richard Dawkins, Fellow of the Royal Society and Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University and Dr. John Lennox (MA, MA, Ph.D., D.Phil., D.Sc.), Reader in Mathematics and Fellow in Mathematics and Philosophy of Science, Green College, University of Oxford.

Dawkins, voted by Europe’s Prospect Magazine as one of the world’s most important intellectuals, is regarded by many as the spokesman for the “New Atheism.” BBC has labeled him “Darwin’s Rottweiler.” He has written numerous best-sellers, most notable among them, his recent book, The God Delusion. TGD has been on The New York Times List of Best-Sellers for over thirty weeks. It is a no-holds-barred assault on religious faith generally, and Christianity specifically. According to Dawkins, one can deduce atheism from scientific study; indeed, he argues that it is the only viable choice.

Lennox, a popular Christian apologist and scientist, travels widely speaking on the interface between science and religion. Like Dawkins, he has dedicated his career to science, but he has arrived at very different conclusions. "It is the very nature of science that leads me to belief in God," he says. Lennox possesses doctorates from Oxford, Cambridge, and the University of Wales. He has written a response to the notion that Science has exposed the Bible as obscurantist in a book titled God’s Undertaker: Has Science Buried the Bible? The book will be published this fall.

The debate will center on Dawkins' views as expressed in his best-seller, The God Delusion and their validity over and against the Christian faith. This will be the first significant discussion on this issue in the "Bible Belt." Consequently, we believe that it will focus much public attention on this important issue.

For more information, contact us at info@fixed-point.org.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: antichristian; atheism; beliefsystems; christianbashing; crevo; culturewar; dawkins; dawkinstheevangelist; goddelusion; liberalbigot; religion; thenogodgod; whereisyourgodnow

1 posted on 07/01/2007 1:32:02 PM PDT by SirLinksalot
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To: SirLinksalot

Thanks for the heads up!


2 posted on 07/01/2007 1:36:20 PM PDT by jimmyray
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To: SirLinksalot
It is a no-holds-barred assault on religious faith generally, and Christianity specifically.

Why doesn't the Atheist community target Mohammed's theocracy of the Empire of Islam as much as they take delight in bashing Christians?

If it is an "educated study in atheism" it should be neutral and deride all faiths, not target one faith that has been superseded by another faith that rewrote THAT faith's religious text.

Christians follow Christ. Muslims don't. Are muslims better "delusional" adherents to religion because they dismiss Jesus (and replace Him with Mohammed)?

Why not expose Scientology as a grand sci-fi tale cooked up by L. Ron Hubbard, noted Sci-Fi author?

3 posted on 07/01/2007 1:43:55 PM PDT by weegee (If the Fairness Doctrine is imposed on USA who will CNN news get to read the conservative rebuttal)
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To: weegee

Why do atheists hate Christianity so much, because of its power.

No other “religion” has any spiritual power.

They might have guns (Islam), they might have money (scientology), but they have no power over the human heart.


4 posted on 07/01/2007 1:51:03 PM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: SirLinksalot

“one of the world’s most important intellectuals...”

boy, oh boy. those atheists are all brilliant intellectuals. they are so smart that they are smarter than they themselves are. they are so smart that they throw out invisible lightning bolts when the speak and they fill the minds of their opposites with impotence in the face of their limitless intelligence. when the ignorant, unintelligent, stupid, empty-headed believers come under their spell, and renounce their supposed gods, they will turn into super intelligent beings, just like all of the world’s important intellectuals. but, they will all fall short of the original, important, all-knowing, super intelligent intellectual marxists who now grace the world with their presence. (only additional evolution may bring them to the same level as the important intellectuals; let’s say about fifty generations of evolution might do it, if that.)


5 posted on 07/01/2007 1:58:35 PM PDT by ripley
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To: SirLinksalot

I saw the video of Dawkins interviewing Haggard, if my only choice were to believe “christians” like Haggard I’d be an atheist too.

http://www.vsocial.com/video/?d=9421


6 posted on 07/01/2007 1:58:53 PM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: All

You have to admit - if you are honest - Dawkins has somewhat of a point in being skeptical when he tries to understand Haggard and the way he works people.

What takes the cake in the video is when Haggard tells Dawkins “please, don’t be arrogant” in a super arrogant tone of voice.


7 posted on 07/01/2007 2:06:43 PM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: Mrs.Z; weegee
From an Athiests point of view what is the difference between Christianity and Islam?

Your straw man argument doesn’t hold water.

8 posted on 07/01/2007 2:13:03 PM PDT by LeGrande (Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.)
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To: LeGrande

“From an Athiests point of view what is the difference between Christianity and Islam?”

Why are there no curses in any language of Buddha, Mohammad, or any other gods or so called messengers of the gods?

You will however, hear atheists taking God the Creator and His Son’s names in vain.

It’s kind of a back handed compliment, showing that even atheists know Who’s listening.


9 posted on 07/01/2007 2:22:14 PM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: Mrs.Z

There are no live atheists in muslim countries and very few Christians left for that matter.


10 posted on 07/01/2007 2:24:39 PM PDT by herMANroberts
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To: Mrs.Z

“Why do atheists hate Christianity so much, because of its power.”

Most rational atheists don’t hate Christianity. They realize that it is a valuable contributor to society. That a large majority of the population is incapable of determining moral values for itself, and expects to have its moral values dictated by authority figures.

Christianity as it has evolved in the last two hundred years is perhaps the most benign and socially positive of the great religions.


11 posted on 07/01/2007 2:26:00 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: SirLinksalot

Great Answer from the Judge

In Florida , an atheist became incensed over the preparation of Easter and Passover holidays. He decided to contact his lawyer about the discrimination inflicted on atheists by the constant celebrations afforded to Christians and Jews with all their holidays while atheists had no holiday to celebrate.

The case was brought before a wise judge. After listening to the long passionate presentation by the lawyer, the Judge banged his gavel and declared “Case dismissed!”

The lawyer immediately stood and objected to the ruling and said, “Your honor, how can you possibly dismiss this case? The Christians have Christmas, Easter and many other observances. Jews have Passover, Yom Kippur and Hanukkah... yet my client and all other atheists have no such holiday!”

The judge leaned forward in his chair and simply said, “Obviously your client is too confused to even know about, much less celebrate his own atheists’ holiday!”

The lawyer pompously said, “Your Honor, we are unaware of any such holiday for atheists. Just when might that holiday be, your Honor?”

The judge said, “Well it comes every year on exactly the same date - April 1st! Since our calendar sets April 1st as ‘April Fools’ Day’, consider that Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53 state, ‘The fool says in his heart, there is no God.’

Therefore, in my opinion, if your client says there is no God, then by scripture he is a fool, thus April 1st is his holiday!”

PRAY THAT SOME DAY OUR COURTS WILL BE FULL OF THESE KIND OF JUDGES...... MAYBE THEN, WE CAN PUT GOD BACK WHERE HE BELONGS - IN EVERYTHING WE DO...

Way to go, Judge!


12 posted on 07/01/2007 2:28:42 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: Mrs.Z
Why are there no curses in any language of Buddha, Mohammad, or any other gods or so called messengers of the gods?

How funny. You obviously don't know any Buddhists or Muslims do you?

13 posted on 07/01/2007 2:53:39 PM PDT by LeGrande (Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.)
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To: ripley

atheism is short for autotheism


14 posted on 07/01/2007 3:02:21 PM PDT by TheDon (The DemocRAT party is the party of TREASON! Overthrow the terrorist's congress!)
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To: herMANroberts
There are no live atheists in muslim countries...

At least none that will admit it.

15 posted on 07/01/2007 3:04:42 PM PDT by TheDon (The DemocRAT party is the party of TREASON! Overthrow the terrorist's congress!)
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To: Mrs.Z
but they have no power over the human heart

Read "The Universe in a Single Atom" by the Dalai Lama.

16 posted on 07/01/2007 3:06:39 PM PDT by Glenn (Free Venezuela!)
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To: SirLinksalot
The Dawkins delusion:


17 posted on 07/01/2007 3:21:34 PM PDT by caveat emptor
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To: weegee

“Why doesn’t the Atheist community target Mohammed’s theocracy of the Empire of Islam as much as they take delight in bashing Christians?”

I would, if they were trying to install sharia law in the US.

” Why not expose Scientology as a grand sci-fi tale cooked up by L. Ron Hubbard, noted Sci-Fi author?”

Scientology is a grand sci-fi tale cooked up by L. Ron Hubbard.

I speak, of course, only for myself as a member of the atheist community, not its spokesman.


18 posted on 07/01/2007 3:48:57 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Mrs.Z

“It’s kind of a back handed compliment, showing that even atheists know Who’s listening.”

No, it’s cultural thing. Americans grow up using religious swear words, religious and atheist alike. It’s part of the language. When I was adult enough to reject religion, my language usage was too set to jettison. Sexual scatology, thankfully, remains heartfelt and sincere. ;)


19 posted on 07/01/2007 3:52:09 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: jimmyray

If you are interested, here is John Lennox’s ( Dawkin’s opponent in this debate ) latest book :

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Undertaker-John-Lennox/dp/0745953034/ref=sr_1_1/103-8548352-0635816?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183297447&sr=1-1

TITLE : GOD’s UNDERTAKER : HAS SCIENCE BURIED GOD ?


20 posted on 07/01/2007 4:30:59 PM PDT by SirLinksalot
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To: TheDon

Here is a background of Dawkins’ debating opponent (including his picture):

http://www.ttf.org/index/about/lennox/

Dr. John Lennox is a Fellow in Mathematics and Philosophy and Chaplain at Green College Oxford and Senior Fellow of the Whitefield Institute in Oxford.

He studied at Cambridge University, from which he holds the degrees of M.A. and Ph.D. and was subsequently Reader in Pure Mathematics at the University of Wales, where he was awarded the DSc degree. Dr. Lennox has been a Senior Alexander von Humboldt Fellow at the Universities of Wuerzburg and Freiburg in Germany and a visiting professor at Universities of Vienna, Alberta and Bar Ilan. He has lectured in many universities abroad, including in the former Soviet Union (Moscow, St. Petersburg, Novosibirsk, Kiev, Minsk, etc.) as an invitee of the Academy of Sciences. He has published over 70 articles on Algebra (Group Theory) and co-authored one major research monograph. He is currently writing a further major research monograph for Oxford University Press and lectures in the Mathematical Institute of Oxford University.

As Senior Fellow of the Whitefield Institute, Dr. Lennox is interested in the frontier areas of Science, Philosophy, and Theology and has lectured on Christian apologetics (particularly on the Science-Religion debate) in many universities and Academies of Science. He has also written articles on such topics for the secular press, particularly in Russia. He is co-author of a number of books including: Christianity: Opium or Truth?, Key Biblical Concepts, The Bible and Moral Education, and The Definition of Christianity, each of which has been published in a number of languages.

He and his wife Sally have three grown-up children and live near Oxford.


21 posted on 07/01/2007 4:33:23 PM PDT by SirLinksalot
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To: weegee
I think you're overlooking the obvious explanation that christianity is the largest religion in the West. If atheists address any religion, it only makes sense that it be the predominant one, for that is the one affecting the most people.

I also think that it is not "bashing" to critique a religion (or anything else). Many christians think that (their) religion should be allowed more sway in our government and society, and atheists would naturally be opposed to that. But merely stating those objections and the reasons for them cannot truthfully be called "bashing".

22 posted on 07/01/2007 6:01:58 PM PDT by kozokey
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To: TheDon

“atheism is short for autotheism.”

you said it. dangerous people when the “electorate” falls for the party line. of late, it seems that more than 50 percent of them are swallowing the hook, along with the line and sinker. (can’t wait to see what happens in the next election.)


23 posted on 07/01/2007 7:28:51 PM PDT by ripley
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To: gcruse

I didn’t know we had a “community”.


24 posted on 07/01/2007 7:31:28 PM PDT by darkangel82 (Socialism is NOT an American value.)
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To: darkangel82

Ok. Fellowship of nonbelievers?


25 posted on 07/01/2007 8:34:41 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: gcruse

Community, fellowship...whatever works for you.


26 posted on 07/01/2007 8:53:37 PM PDT by darkangel82 (Socialism is NOT an American value.)
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To: darkangel82; gcruse
No, it's a community.

And until you start paying your membership dues to me, you'll both continue to be excluded from all our atheist field trips and shall be threatened with a non-eternity of non-suffering in the non-great picnic of the afterlife, where you won't be turned into a KFC Chicken & Biscuit Bowl and cast down into a mass of slightly inebriated demons armed with insatiable appetites and beryllium sporks.

Remember - united we find things to argue about, divided we find more important things to do with our lives.

27 posted on 07/01/2007 9:26:48 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Mmmm... biscuits.


28 posted on 07/01/2007 9:29:17 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: SirLinksalot; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; cornelis
Something Dawkins and Darwin missed is that man evolved to eventually seek GOD... Man evolved to reach a state that he wondered about his maker.. Something no animal(lesser being) ever did.. Could be "LIFE" will evolve until it seeks GOD..

UNLESS he was made that way from the beginning.. and did not evolve at all.. Either way, man seeks God and as far as recorded history tells us, he always did.. Maybe those that DO NOT seek God are operating on a primitive level.. You know, like an animal..

29 posted on 07/01/2007 9:48:22 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: hosepipe
Thank you so much for those excellent insights!
30 posted on 07/01/2007 10:21:34 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

It was just a thought.. but as possible as Survival of the fittest.. actually MORE probable..


31 posted on 07/01/2007 10:26:03 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: kozokey; weegee
I think you're overlooking the obvious explanation that christianity is the largest religion in the West. If atheists address any religion, it only makes sense that it be the predominant one, for that is the one affecting the most people.

ABSURD!! They are too chicken shit to knock Mohammed and his cult

32 posted on 07/01/2007 11:02:00 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: marktwain
Most rational atheists don’t hate Christianity.

Mostly we look at believers like all of us at FR look at Hillary Clinton supporters-- total bewilderment at how their mind processes information.

33 posted on 07/02/2007 2:23:55 PM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: weegee
Why doesn't the Atheist community target Mohammed's theocracy of the Empire of Islam as much as they take delight in bashing Christians?

Because Allah, and Islam, are no threat. It is Christ who triggers rage in the hearts of men who don't know Him because, as He said:

19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, (Romans 1: 19,20).

God has instilled in the heart of every man, woman, and child knowledge of Him and holds man inexcusable for denying Him. However, the more a person rejects God, the more blinded he becomes:

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. (2 Corinthinians 4:,4)

The reason why atheists do not target Islam is because the god of Islam is not the God of Scripture and does not trigger the visceral anger that Christ does and because the god of Islam is the god who does not hold men accountable for sin and who does not make atheists feel uncomfortable.

Satan has to shut Christ up to keep as many people as possible away from Him and doomed for eternity, and that's why they go after Christ and the people who love Him and follow Him.

34 posted on 07/02/2007 3:15:53 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: gcruse

“I would, if they were trying to install sharia law in the US.”

Many of them are. Much more so than the Christian community within the West.


35 posted on 07/03/2007 6:10:17 PM PDT by marktwain
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