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Boeing wins $2bn contract to rewing A-10s
Flight Global ^ | 7/5/2007 | Graham Warwick

Posted on 07/05/2007 2:40:09 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Boeing has won a $2 billion contract to build new wings for the US Air Force's Fairchild A-10 ground-attack aircraft, after beating rival bids from contractors including Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman.

Announced on 29 June, the deal calls for the delivery of 242 replacement wing kits for installation by the USAF's Ogden Air Logistics Center at Hill AFB, Utah, with the work to extend the life of the A-10 fleet by at least 20 years.

More than 700 A-10s were introduced from 1976 and, despite regular threats of retirement, the type remains one of the air force's most effective close-air support platforms.

Lockheed is performing a wider precision engagement upgrade to the aircraft, and the resulting A-10C configuration will have new avionics equipment and an expanded range of air-to-surface weapons.

Boeing has yet to select its fabrication contractors for the rewinging project, which will begin with an 18-month engineering phase and is scheduled for completion by September 2018.

Boeing Macon will put the wing kits together for installation by the air force depot. The replacement design is based on the "thick" wing fitted to late production examples of the A-10.

Meanwhile, the USAF has awarded Korean Air a contract worth $16 million to continue service-life extension work on its A-10s until 2009. The company has previously modified 180 of the type at its Gimhae facility in South Korea.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: a10; aerospace; aviation; boeing; miltech; thunderboltii
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An A-10 Thunderbolt II, like this one, is among the various U.S. Central Command Air Forces air assets available for providing close-air support for International Security Assistance Force troops in contact with enemy forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. The A-10 is specially designed for close air support of ground forces and can be used against all ground targets, including tanks and other armored vehicles. (U.S. Air Force photo/Capt. Justin T. Watson)


FORT POLK, La. -- An A-10 Thunderbolt II pulls up after destroying a ground target with its 30 mm Gatling gun during a live-fire portion of Air Warrior II here. Airmen of the 354th Fighter Squadron from Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Ariz., are participating in the exercise along with Air Force joint terminal attack controllers embedded with the Army's 10th Mountain Division. (U.S. Air Force photo by Senior Airman Stephen Otero)

1 posted on 07/05/2007 2:40:11 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

I drive by Willow Grove Air Station during my commute. Makes my day when some hogs fly overhead.


2 posted on 07/05/2007 2:41:24 PM PDT by dirtboy (Impeach Chertoff and Gonzales. We can't wait until 2009 for them to be gone.)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

I wonder way the replacemnt wings are necessary. Due to corrosion or fatigue, or for advancing the A-10? Maybe both?


3 posted on 07/05/2007 2:45:36 PM PDT by jaydubya2
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To: Paleo Conservative

Ping


4 posted on 07/05/2007 2:46:24 PM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Monet should have been smothered as a child." Pablo Picasso)
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To: dirtboy

IMHO, the two best airplanes ever built are the DC-3, and the A-10.


5 posted on 07/05/2007 2:46:28 PM PDT by patton (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: dirtboy

I remember about 15-20 years back driving through the Kisatchie Nat’l Forest in Louisiana. I came over a hill and about six A-10s were doing a run on the highway. They were probably doing something against the rules— but I doubt more than a few cars saw it.


6 posted on 07/05/2007 2:49:53 PM PDT by Comstock1 (If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle.)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Years ago I remember articles about retirement for the A-10.

Looks like it is going the B-52 route now.


7 posted on 07/05/2007 2:54:01 PM PDT by Names Ash Housewares
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
I'm curious as to how this contract was even possible. I would think the design of the wings would be subject to copyright and M7 Aerospace (Fairchild's successor) would have to be compensated in this deal.

You can't just go out and copy someone else's design of a plane, boat, wing, whatever.

8 posted on 07/05/2007 2:54:37 PM PDT by BearCub
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Great news !


9 posted on 07/05/2007 2:56:06 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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To: jaydubya2

Yes!


10 posted on 07/05/2007 2:56:38 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Islam is the religion of violins, NOT peas.)
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To: patton

Wadabout the 737, DC9, Constellation?


11 posted on 07/05/2007 2:58:16 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Islam is the religion of violins, NOT peas.)
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To: jaydubya2

age?? 30 years is a long time for CAS aircraft, I would think.


12 posted on 07/05/2007 2:58:51 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascists inside and outside our borders, now ACT LIKE IT!)
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To: dirtboy

There used to be A-10’s at Richards-Gebaur AFB in Grandview, MO, south of me several miles. I loved to hear that loud howl the engines made when they were nearby.


13 posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:05 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: Paladin2

What of them? ;)


14 posted on 07/05/2007 3:01:03 PM PDT by patton (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Great! Another fantastic A-10 thread!!!

I like it! I love it!! I want somemore of it!!!

15 posted on 07/05/2007 3:01:09 PM PDT by SierraWasp (SIERRA REPUBLIC!!! (our 51st united state)(all of CA excluding coastal counties))
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To: jaydubya2
I wonder way the replacemnt wings are necessary. Due to corrosion or fatigue, or for advancing the A-10? Maybe both?


How about some AAA-Fire.

Sustained major wing damage, but was brought back by pilot Capt. Paul Johnson. Major depot level repairs in the field including center wing replacement!


16 posted on 07/05/2007 3:01:44 PM PDT by Major_Risktaker (Global Warming is a cover story for Peak Oil.)
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To: patton

Long service life and economic utility.


17 posted on 07/05/2007 3:04:14 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Islam is the religion of violins, NOT peas.)
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To: Major_Risktaker

That reminds me of the stories of crippled B-17’s returning home. One tuff aircraft!


18 posted on 07/05/2007 3:04:38 PM PDT by jaydubya2
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To: Major_Risktaker

Ouch!


19 posted on 07/05/2007 3:04:44 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Islam is the religion of violins, NOT peas.)
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To: BearCub
I'm curious as to how this contract was even possible. I would think the design of the wings would be subject to copyright and M7 Aerospace (Fairchild's successor) would have to be compensated in this deal. You can't just go out and copy someone else's design of a plane, boat, wing, whatever.

You can patent a wing design, but such patent would long since have expired. AFAIK, you can't copyright a wing design

20 posted on 07/05/2007 3:08:13 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Open Season rocks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymLJz3N8ayI)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

21 posted on 07/05/2007 3:12:40 PM PDT by traumer
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

More than anything the plane needs some more powerful engines. I had an A-10 driver tell me he could only make three passes then had to leave the fight to accelerate back up to wart speed. ;^)


22 posted on 07/05/2007 3:14:56 PM PDT by saganite (Billions and billions and billions----and that's just the NASA budget!)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

The A-10 is a personal favorite of this civilian.


23 posted on 07/05/2007 3:16:43 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Greed is NOT a conservative ideal.)
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To: SauronOfMordor
You can patent a wing design, but such patent would long since have expired. AFAIK, you can't copyright a wing design

Sure you can, and you're protected even without filing it. It's just like boat designs, house designs, etc. Try making a car that looks just like a Corvette...

24 posted on 07/05/2007 3:17:19 PM PDT by BearCub
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To: patton

Yeah, and here’s a great plane that the “greatest” military and civilian minds were getting ready to put in the scrap heap because they weren’t “sexy” enough or cost enough for our great planners. Somewhat like the old B-52. Something I can’t understand is here are a couple of planes that they can’t come up with something any better so why if they’ve already been invented, the R&D has been done and paid for can’t our airplane manufacturers simply build more of them.


25 posted on 07/05/2007 3:18:39 PM PDT by Plains Drifter (If guns kill people, wouldn't there be a lot of dead people at gun shows?)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

More than 700 A-10s were introduced from 1976 and, despite regular threats of retirement, the type remains one of the air force’s most effective close-air support platforms.

I remember seeing A-10’s returning from runs in Laos when I was stationed in Thailand in ‘69.


26 posted on 07/05/2007 3:18:55 PM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (When the rapture comes, can I have your stuff?)
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To: patton
IMHO, the two best airplanes ever built are the DC-3, and the A-10.

'Best' is always a matter of opinion. I happen to agree with you on your selections for 'best', although some might not.

But I'd be willing to bet no one would argue that the DC-3 and A-10 are the most robust aircraft of all time!

Especially not our Mayor's daughter:


27 posted on 07/05/2007 3:21:33 PM PDT by null and void (A large gov't agency is more expensive than a smaller agency with the same mission, yet does less)
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To: BearCub
You can't just go out and copy someone else's design of a plane, boat, wing, whatever.

You can if you bought the design!

28 posted on 07/05/2007 3:22:47 PM PDT by null and void (A large gov't agency is more expensive than a smaller agency with the same mission, yet does less)
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To: null and void

When you say DC-3, you really mean the C47, don’t you?

My dad crew chiefed and flown one back in the Big One!


29 posted on 07/05/2007 3:23:55 PM PDT by Seeking the truth (Freep Gear & Pajama Patrol Badges @ www.0cents.com)
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To: Paladin2; patton

See? That took all of a dozen minutes, and half a dozen posts!


30 posted on 07/05/2007 3:24:18 PM PDT by null and void (A large gov't agency is more expensive than a smaller agency with the same mission, yet does less)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

We ought to build another 700. These are damned effective aircraft, and we’ll need all the firepower we can get in the future - China ain’t going away, but these planes are one way of keeping them on their side of the ocean.

I love that 30mm gatling gun - I have an empty shell casing that someone shipped to me about 2 years ago...a .50 BMG round fits inside with no trouble at all.


31 posted on 07/05/2007 3:24:27 PM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: null and void
You can if you bought the design!

You mean bought the rights to the actual design, not an instance of that design, right? If so, I agree.

That does raise an interesting point, though. My body shop can recreate elements of my car's design in order to repair it.

32 posted on 07/05/2007 3:26:10 PM PDT by BearCub
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To: saganite
I had an A-10 driver tell me he could only make three passes then had to leave the fight to accelerate back up to wart speed. ;^)

Lots of recoil form the gun...

33 posted on 07/05/2007 3:26:18 PM PDT by null and void (A large gov't agency is more expensive than a smaller agency with the same mission, yet does less)
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To: TangoLimaSierra

Don’t think so. You may be thinking of the A-7, the A-4 or most likely the A-1 Sandy.


34 posted on 07/05/2007 3:26:41 PM PDT by saganite (Billions and billions and billions----and that's just the NASA budget!)
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To: BearCub

The YA-10A first flew on 10 May 1972, so the copyrights were probably registered before this date.

The copyright would have endured for a first term of 28 years from the date it was secured. During the last (28th) year of the first term, the copyright was eligible for a second renewal term of an additional 28 years. If no application was filed for renewal, the work would enter the public domain after the initial 28 year term.


35 posted on 07/05/2007 3:28:31 PM PDT by Beckwith (dhimmicrats and the liberal media have chosen sides -- Islamofascism)
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To: Seeking the truth

The C-47 and the DC-3 are essentially the same aircraft, the main difference is bigger cargo doors on the C-47.


36 posted on 07/05/2007 3:29:15 PM PDT by null and void (A large gov't agency is more expensive than a smaller agency with the same mission, yet does less)
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To: dirtboy
Horsham traffic sucks, don’t it!
37 posted on 07/05/2007 3:30:07 PM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: BearCub

It depends on the data rights of the drawings. Some drawings have unlimited data rights (meaning anybody the USAF authorizes can do the work), some of them are limited data rights, some are proprietary.


38 posted on 07/05/2007 3:31:42 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Sharpei diem -- Seize the wrinkled dog.)
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To: BearCub
You can't just go out and copy someone else's design of a plane, boat, wing, whatever.

If you're the government, you sure can.

At the beginning of WWII a number of the original aircraft manufacturers of planes like the B-17, F4F and TBF (Boeing and Grumman, for those examples) were extremely reticent to share their designs with Vega, Eastern Aircraft and other manufacturers. The government stepped in and told them to either do it on their own ... or the government was going to seize the designs and do it anyways.

At least part of the justification was that since the aircraft had been produced for the government under government contract, the government was the rightful owner of the designs.

(btw, this issue has been broached again recently with efforts to get the manufacturers of real warplanes to stop charging royalties on the companies that manufacture plastic models of the aircraft.)

The companies in question quickly worked the problem out amongst themselves.
39 posted on 07/05/2007 3:35:35 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: BearCub
True. I’m not an IP lawyer, but I think the car, etc. designs are trademarked.

Unlike patents, trademarks never die. I think the standard the courts use in such cases is whether the copy would ‘create confusion in the mind of the consumer’.

Given that this is FR, I’m pretty sure someone who actually knows will be along to correct me soon. ;^)

40 posted on 07/05/2007 3:35:40 PM PDT by null and void (A large gov't agency is more expensive than a smaller agency with the same mission, yet does less)
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To: BearCub
You can't just go out and copy someone else's design of a plane, boat, wing, whatever.

YOU can't, that's for sure.

But what the US government (referred to hereafter as US) may do is likely quite a different story, as this design was prepared for US, paid for by US, and owned by US. That makes it ours, and the contract terms undoubtedly make that clear.

I'd be floored if there was any possibility that the A-10's original designers had anything whatsoever to say about what the US does now with their planes.

41 posted on 07/05/2007 3:38:04 PM PDT by John Valentine
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To: TangoLimaSierra

-—I remember seeing A-10’s returning from runs in Laos when I was stationed in Thailand in ‘69.-—

The first production A-10A was delivered to Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Ariz., in October 1975.

Date Deployed: March 1976

A-10/OA-10 THUNDERBOLT II
http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=70


42 posted on 07/05/2007 3:38:33 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: John Valentine
But what the US government (referred to hereafter as US) may do is likely quite a different story, as this design was prepared for US, paid for by US, and owned by US. That makes it ours, and the contract terms undoubtedly make that clear

I'm sure that's the case (the contract thing).

43 posted on 07/05/2007 3:39:52 PM PDT by BearCub
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To: Tommyjo

44 posted on 07/05/2007 3:43:43 PM PDT by null and void (A large gov't agency is more expensive than a smaller agency with the same mission, yet does less)
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To: saganite
Don’t think so. You may be thinking of the A-7, the A-4 or most likely the A-1 Sandy.

Or the A-26/B-26K Invader. About the same size as an A-10, lots of external hardpoints on the wings plus a gunnose (with 8 .50s).
45 posted on 07/05/2007 3:43:44 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Back in the 80’s we would go out in the pine barrens of southern NJ on the edge of the Warren Grove bombing range. It was sweet watching those warthogs dive at their targets. Back then we also saw F4s and F111s.
46 posted on 07/05/2007 3:44:09 PM PDT by 4yearlurker (Liberals, A terrorists best friend!)
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To: null and void

Gotta wonder if the kegs used to simulate the TF-34s are “operational” ...


47 posted on 07/05/2007 3:46:09 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Beckwith

Copyright and patent are subservient to the details of Fairchild’s contract with the DOD. The contract would spell out the DOD’s right to contract with other companies to build more aircraft or spare parts. You could assume that since the original jigs no longer exist, Fairchild couldn’t supply replacement wings in a timely fashion.


48 posted on 07/05/2007 3:46:46 PM PDT by MediaMole
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Great aviation news! But...

Wouldn't it be easier to tool up and build new entire planes?

Let's see... wings only... I assume that includes integral fuel tanks... Ummmm OK...

$2billion divided by 242 = roughly...

$8,264,462.81 per "wing"!
Holy mackarel!

49 posted on 07/05/2007 3:46:48 PM PDT by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: null and void

50 posted on 07/05/2007 3:48:38 PM PDT by traumer
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