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Posted on 07/09/2007 5:32:14 AM PDT by jbonham76
On Saturday Fred Thompson and Mitt Romney ventured to the Young Republicans (YR) convention in Hollywood, Florida and we got a preview of two different types of candidates.
Thompson offered a “red meat” speech-playing to the emotions of the young crowd and pulling out crowd pleasing lines. He intoned: “I'm getting tired of having to apologize for the United States of America around the world. I'm tired of other people's perceptions that we need to apologize.” He thanked Mary Matalin, chatted about Scooter Libby, reminisced about his days as a YR and repeated threw out lines praising America’s greatness, declaring that America is “the greatest country in the history of the world” and we have been a “beacon of hope for the last 200 years.” He did not however address a single substantive policy issue nor explain a rationale for a potential Thompson campaign. There was no talk of Iraq or the economy or even immigration. As for the Democrats he spent no time addressing Hillary health care or their views on other topics. He did however exhort the crowd, promising that voters would not “turn the keys over to the party of despair and division.” The crowd of youngsters seemed not to mind and cheered enthusiastically.
Romney, by contrast, treated the crowd to vintage Romney: a mix of enthusiasm and optimism with a heavy dose of policy. The speech was structured to compare the Democrats’ vision of change to his. He declared: “"To confront unprecedented challenges, we must change. Both parties claim to be the party of change, and I think both are right. But there's a big difference in the direction their change would take us.” While explaining the Democrats vision of change is a European economic model he set out his: “I have a different answer. Let's make the Bush tax cuts permanent. Let's kill the Death Tax. And let's have a new tax rate for middle income Americans who want to save their money, who are investing in America. The tax rate on their interest, dividends and capital gains should be...exactly zero!”
On spending he offered, “If I am elected President, I will cap non-defense discretionary spending at inflation minus one percent. That alone will save $300 billion over ten years. If Congress sends me appropriations that exceed that cap, I will veto them.” He also suggested a “top-to-bottom review of government programs, agencies, procurement and spending.” And so it went as he marched through immigration, health care and the threat of Islamic terror. He also took time out to point out his executive experience, declaring “Cutting waste, streamlining, benchmarking -- this is what I do. I have done it in business, I've done it in the Olympics, and I've done it in state government. I simply can't wait to get my hands on Washington!”
The contrast could not be clearer, at least at this stage in the political race. Thompson offers good cheer, appeals to Republicans’ fear that history may be passing them by and some folksy home charm. Romney has long since passed the introduction stage in his campaign and focuses on policy, laying out a conservative agenda and getting in a few digs at his Democratic opponents.
The straw poll results showed Romney the overwhelming winner but Thompson supporters soon groused that -- horrors -- the event had been packed with Romney supporters and even non-YR members were allowed to vote. This organizational finesse of course is how straw polls are won and should serve as a warning to the Thompson team as they head from testing to running. Romney’s organization is running on all cylinders and has learned the basics of running an event, corralling its supporters and tabulating a win. Enthusiasm without organization does not win elections.
In the days and weeks ahead we will see more duels between these two as they vie for the role of Movement Conservative to take on Rudy Giuliani (who spent the day with a huge NASCAR crowd). Thompson is an exceptionally appealing and in some sense more comforting messenger but Romney has a message and Thompson will need one too plus some nuts and bolts organization if he is going to make the transition to candidate.
They should try arm wrestling. Fred would kick that cross dressing, pansies a$$.
Sorry. I got Romney confused with Guiliani. Although, Romney may cross dress. Just at home.
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Ironic.
Sort of blows the argument that Mitt has no substance out of the water.
Unfortunately, we have the same crop of RINO voters bashing those candidates.
???
In this world of picking the best compromise, I stand between these two, but I’m leaning toward FDT. However, in the real world, Mitt Romney has achieved a lot of real world success in several different arenas. I believe we would do well with either man as POTUS.
I have to agree with you. I think nearly all of the 1st and second tier candidates are of good quality. They all have something though that makes them less than perfect. But I don’t think that imperfect candidates is a new phenomenon.
“Sort of blows the argument that Mitt has no substance out of the water.”
You’re right. All these posters on FreeRepublic are left with is name calling. Typical — that’s usually the left’s MO, but many on the right, especially on FreeRepublic, do that often too.
If only the monogomists were allowed to vote that chart might be relevant.
If so, let us move on here, I do not want to even read her dribble...
Of the two, however, so far I'm considerably more impressed with Romney. That he is not spending any time addressing policy makes me think that ol' Fred just ain't got a round to it yet. I question whether or not he is willing and able to put in the effort required to be an effective leader of the free world.
The 2008 election is not going to about exclusively about national security, and there is going to a lot of domestic issues involved.
Both Fred and Rudy need to stop with the cliches and focus on real policies like Mitt has been doing, imo any one who wins the nomination has to be prepared to duel with the Dem candidates on domestic policy issues.
Mitt is the one with the TRACK RECORD of accomplishments. His accomplishments in the private sector and as leader of the 2002 Winter Olympics is nothing less than stunning.
I didn't know the Democrats had a vision.
Well, what substance he has is merely parroting. Instead of real tax reform, it's just rhetoric like "keep the tax 'cuts' permanent." Those cuts were nothing more than an ever-increasing boondoggle that your United States government continues to perpetuate by avoiding real tax reform.
Think about it. In 1982 there were two tax brackets: lower and upper. The 1040A fit on one side of a sheet of paper. Now there are 6 tax brackets and more credits and deductions than one can shake a stick at. Nearly half of America is off the tax rolls entirely. Meanwhile, the average American has to see an accountant because the tax mess is so overwhelming. Continuing to perpetuate the current tax system is not the right thing to do. Now, I hear about the Fair Tax, that much of an overhaul would probably be a huge economic shock to the system and the rebate system is a joke, but at least it's an effort. I would support a reduction in tax brackets and deductions overall.
LOL
If that were true, then all those who have been married more than one would therefore be polygamist. I think you will find that is a fallacy.
Indeed I wanted to avoid this but since you made the point, whose religion has openly accepted polygamy as a way of life...
that should be they, delete the not and change one to once.
Damn Treos...
Ronald Reagen had two wives.
Bill Clinton has had one wife.
What is your point....other than to divide?
It’s encouraging that both candidates are effective communicators and are actively engaged with the core base. These were both serious weaknesses with GWB with escalating consequences over his presidency.
Don’t take it too seriously, it’s just a funny graph provided by the economist.
I agree with you about tax reform. Romney has been talking about simplifying the tax code as well.. you should look up some of his plans on that. And btw my family has accountants in it, and I think the tax code should fit on a piece of paper. And most people should not have to see an accountant. Some professionals love complexity like that and try to keep it.. but I view that as theft and traitorism.
My personal favorite tax system is the new Russian one after Putin ripped apart the old burueacratic and complex one. 13% of your income you pay to the government.. doesn’t matter how much you make or how you make it.
I also agree a sales tax would be better in today’s global trade environment.. I just don’t know how it would be put in place. The ideal situation would be to put it in place gradually sort of how the Chinese do things. Start with just a couple percent, and gradually raise it while lowering the income tax. Unfortunately I don’t trust the politicians with doing that.
Well, I could do a post where I named Fred Thompson’s acting co-stars and all the evil they did, as if he was somehow associated with their evil.
You are absolutely right. Mitt has provided specifics on substantive issues which are in stark contrast to those offered by the dems.
"Conservatism, Republicanism, is a philosophy of strength. We believe in a strong military, a strong economy, and in strong families and values. We believe in the American people. … And when you need to call on the strength of America, you don't strengthen government, you strengthen the American people." – Gov. Mitt Romney (Gov. Mitt Romney, Remarks At The Young Republican National Convention, Hollywood, FL, 7/7/07)
You can see his specific proposals here (may be worthy of its own thread):
I've never heard the argument that Mitt has no substance. The argument is whether Mitt has core principles and if so what are they.
I like Romney as VP, but would prefer someone who I would also want as President in 2016 and for me that's not Mitt. Santorum?
The scary thing is that the Democrats actually do have a vision this time.
It includes government-owned and run healthcare, doing away with Bush’s tax cuts, coddling up to the UN, implementing emission mandates (without domestic drilling or nuclear development), and God only help us with what else they have cooked up.
Not to mention their talk of levying up taxes on corporations. I’ll kindly point out that we have the highest corporate taxes in the developed world save Japan, Canada, and Germany. If anyone thinks that’s the route to economic success in the 21st-century, raise your hand.
We absolutely need someone who is willing to go toe-to-toe with the Democrats on policy issues. Frankly, I think Romney has the ability to leave them quaking in their boots on fiscal issues. And those types of issues will put us in very good stead with the more libertarian-leaning regions of our nation. We’re going to need those votes—badly. And I’m afraid the compassionate conservative crowd has about worn out their welcome.
We’ll see in the months ahead. I like both candidates here, but it’s no secret that I’m a Romney supporter.
Mitt Ping!
Cross-dressing? You mean Giuliani, right?
You’ll rarely catch Romney out of a suit or at least a shirt and tie. Kind of fitting for an executive, methinks.
You may say hes a flip flopper, but I dont hear Thompson talking like that. Methinks Thompson is .. All Hat, No Catlle... A blah blah good buddy of McCain and the Beltway Insiders, perhaps?
Do you really intend to insinuate that a man who divorces and remarries is not a monogamist?
Good grief.
I think it will be exciting once Fred Thompson and Mitt Romney are debating directly, and the herd is thinned by having McCain and the other wannabes dropping out.
Yeah, that seems a bit of a strawman to me. The issue with Romney isn't "substance", it's TRUST. As in, do I trust Romney when he makes his claims to being a conservative convert?
Thompson and McCain voted opposite each other nearly 20% of the time, which is a pretty large number for two guys in the same party. In most, if not all, cases, Thompson's vote was on the more conservative and/or federalist side.
31 current Senators have a voting record more conservative than Thompson’s according to the American Conservative Union.
I like the guy, but calling him a bastion of conservative political thought is a bit of an overstatement. I don’t think the comparisons to McCain are wholly justified, as Thompson at least based a few of his more “non-conservative” votes on federalist principles.
Like others, I’m questioning the hold-up on his entering this race. We’ve been hearing the hype that he was going to declare his entry on July 4th in Nashville. That amounted to a bunch of idle clatter. Some claim this is his way of avoiding campaign finance laws (that he helped enact). Others that he is getting press attention for free and not having to spend any campaign contributions.
At the same time, he’s losing establishment and organizational support as it is declared for other candidates. And eventually the press is going to go sour. We’ll see if he can coast like this for much longer. There comes a point when he becomes conspicuously absent in tyhe debates...
That said, he’s been able to garner a lot of support here and in conservative circles. Not a bad way to be.
I don’t think you can call Romney a conservative convert. He’s always been a conservative, though recently he’s become more socially conservative.
As far as limited government and the core of conservatism, that’s always been his thing.
Here is Fred dynamic energetic speech!
Note that the "hype" came from outside the Thompson camp and was flatly denied by Thompson sources in advance.
Some claim this is his way of avoiding campaign finance laws (that he helped enact).
McCain-Feingold has nothing to do with this type of campaign finance law -- those laws were in effect long before McCain-Feingold.
he’s losing establishment and organizational support as it is declared for other candidates
Virtually every day there's a news story about another high-profile addition to the Thompson team. Today, there's a story that former McCain folks, laid off by his cratering campaign, are turning to Thompson. There doesn't seem to be a lack of talent or support (e.g., getting the head of the Florida GOP to join the team last week).
Well, first, plenty of anti-Mitt people around here wrongly equate him with that lightweight, ambulance chasing, man of few accomplishments, John Edwards. That is ridiculous. Mitt's hair is much more natural looking and manly. /sarc
Secondly, if you actually examine the record of Mitt Romney while Governor of Massachusetts, instead of relying on MSM talking points, you will find that he applied and practiced core conservative principles of fiscal and social conservatism in one of the most liberal states in the U.S. It required courage to take the conservative positions and actions he did in the face of a hostile political environment.
Examine actual record here: Romney's Conservative Record in Massachusetts
Now here Romney substance dynamic energetic speech
Gov. Romney: Conservatism Is A Philosophy Of Strength
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p5YlQWozlY
Gov. Romney Interview With WTSP-Tampa Bay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZreq1L-tGs&mode=user&search=
I prefer either a Fred Thompson/Duncan Hunter or a Duncan Hunter/Fred Thompson Presidential ticket. I also wouldn’t mind if Mitt Romney eventually ended up in a cabinet position in either a Fred Thompson administration or in a Duncan Hunter administration.
Gov. Romney: The Presidency Is Not An Internship
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XoE5JEjkBA&NR=1
Literature from the Romney campaign in 1994 reveals the truth about Romney's conservative positions on the issues in the Senate race.
A campaign flyer unearthed from the 1994 race lists a side-by-side comparison of positions between Romney and Kennedy for 24 election issues. Images of the front and back of the flyer are available on the web. A closeup of the flyer with the candidate comparison on the issues is shown below:
Romney held the solid conservative position for 23 of the 24 issues listed; the only exception being the pledge to maintain the status quo in Massachusetts regarding a woman's right to choose. A pro-choice position in Massachusetts in 1994 was a socially moderate stance accommodating the large majority opinion of voters in the state.
Wow. A duel between a Massachusetts liberal and a Tennessee moderate. How exciting. /s
Yes! I did mean Guiliani as a cross dresser. My whoops.
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