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New analysis counters claims that solar activity is linked to global warming
Guardian (England) ^ | July 11, 2007 | James Randerson

Posted on 07/11/2007 3:40:02 AM PDT by liberallarry

It has been one of the central claims of those who challenge the idea that human activities are to blame for global warming. The planet's climate has long fluctuated, say the climate sceptics, and current warming is just part of that natural cycle - the result of variation in the sun's output and not carbon dioxide emissions.

But a new analysis of data on the sun's output in the last 25 years of the 20th century has firmly put the notion to rest. The data shows that even though the sun's activity has been decreasing since 1985, global temperatures have continued to rise at an accelerating rate.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: agw; globalwarming
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To: Perdogg

Forget Mars and Pluto we got a dude that did an analysis! An analysis based on 25 years! So that firmly dispenses all that “the sun is hot” business.

Those stupid planets probably just got hit by a meteor or something like that. That’s probably what melted the Martian icecaps. Yes, the sun is hot, but it’s not too bad, not when compared to evil capitalists driving carbon-belching SUV’s.

C’mon the dude did an analysis and he used super-smart, scientific jargon and you ask, “what about Mars?” ManBearPig can only save one planet at a time, so chill! We got to like save the Earth and stuff first, cause that’s where I keep all my stuff, dude.......................lol :)


51 posted on 07/11/2007 4:20:10 AM PDT by WildcatClan (Duncan Hunter '08)
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To: liberallarry

The Earth is warming. We need more rock concerts.

APf


52 posted on 07/11/2007 4:23:15 AM PDT by APFel (Regnum Nostrum Crescit)
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To: agere_contra
Lockwood & Fröhlich don’t consider the effect of the vast ocean heat sink on temperature variations.

Sure...and Einstein was wrong because he made a simple arithmetic error. Give it a rest.

53 posted on 07/11/2007 4:24:15 AM PDT by liberallarry
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Wooly Mammoth. They used go be around. Now they arent. It used to be cold and it got warmer.

It tends to get warmer until some volcano blows up or some asteroid hits the earth.

When did that volcanoe in the Phillipines blow up? I will bet that put the chill on things for a year or two.

Ok. Now that the sun is decreasing its power, I guess I will have to go back to the human treadmill to power the house. Solar just ain’t cuttin it. The boy and wife aren’t gonna like that.


54 posted on 07/11/2007 4:25:15 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (I am not from Vermont. I lived there for four years and that was enough.)
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To: ripley

“if you accept any ozzer point of view ve vill be forced to re-educate you.”

LOL! (show me your papers!)


55 posted on 07/11/2007 4:27:20 AM PDT by Yehuda ("Land of the free, THANKS TO THE BRAVE!" (Choke on it, pinkos!))
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To: APFel

With global warming, Greenland will get more open air rock concerts.


56 posted on 07/11/2007 4:27:59 AM PDT by drlevy88
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To: lag along; liberallarry; saganite

Bombshell: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1862730/posts


57 posted on 07/11/2007 4:28:53 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (Bilingual education involves the difficult achievement of learning nothing in two languages. ~Gagdad)
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To: liberallarry

Son of MurryMom?


58 posted on 07/11/2007 4:29:06 AM PDT by drlevy88
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To: liberallarry
"This just in, the Guardian reports that man-made global warming is responsible for increases in the Sun's thermal output. Guardian publisher, Lord Bravery, stated 'I may not know much about climate change, but I know it's the American's fault'."
59 posted on 07/11/2007 4:29:10 AM PDT by Jonah Hex ("How'd you get that scar, mister?" "Nicked myself shaving.")
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To: docbnj
Unfortunately, the whole article is not available on line without an expensive subscription — only the abstract is shown.

Yeah...which means detailed criticism cannot be made intelligently by those who haven't subscribed. Hmmm....

The lead author, however, is very, very adamant about the filmmakers who twisted his position (reminds one of Michael Moore, no?)

60 posted on 07/11/2007 4:29:51 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
The sun's magnetic field shields the Earth from its high energy particles called cosmic rays. The rays help form clouds that reflect the sun's energy back into space and cool the planet

I'm pretty sure that this sentence is all f*ck*d up. Its the earth's magnetic field that shields it from the sun's cosmic rays. The earth doesn't produce cosmic rays. At least it didn't when I was in school which admitttedly was a long time ago. Is this a peer reviewed study and who were the peers ?

61 posted on 07/11/2007 4:31:25 AM PDT by Timocrat (I Emanate on your Auras and Penumbras Mr Blackmun)
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To: liberallarry
The "sun's"??? magnetic field shields the Earth from its high energy

Who wrote this crap?
62 posted on 07/11/2007 4:31:58 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: drlevy88
Son of MurryMom?

That's your idea of wit? No wonder your arguments are so poor. Are you really a Doctor? More likely a Doker (kudos to Mel Brooks).

63 posted on 07/11/2007 4:32:51 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: drlevy88
Hmm. The warm Coke effect. Makes sense. Cooling imposed from outside would also cause the ocean to soak up more CO2 by the same token.

The solubility of a gas in a liquid decreases with increased temperature. CO2 in the atmosphere follows warming events, just as in your warm Coke example.

How long after intensified solar heating does it take for the warmer upper layers of the oceans to mix and distribute their heat? Many seasons will pass before the cooler regions begin to release some of their CO2.

The oceans are a huge CO2 sink, and it is more complicated than simple solubility, because the oceans are buffered. Every clam traps CO2 as calcium carbonate.

This is a sensible explanation for the built in time delay.

The solar researchers cited have managed to flunk both Thermodynamics and Chemistry, but never mind that. They FEEL the right way, and the motives are noble.

64 posted on 07/11/2007 4:34:06 AM PDT by Gorzaloon
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To: liberallarry

The guardian is a commie rag. Anything that they say is automatically suspect.


65 posted on 07/11/2007 4:34:08 AM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged
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To: liberallarry
Yeah...which means detailed criticism cannot be made intelligently by those who haven't subscribed. Hmmm....

Yet here it is on a discussion forum. Posted by... you. And now you claim, if you read you correctly, that we can't debate or debunk it because we can't actually read the article.

Take a hike, junior.

APf

66 posted on 07/11/2007 4:34:38 AM PDT by APFel (Regnum Nostrum Crescit)
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To: Mike Fieschko

Thanks for the links. Looks like they were only looking at solar radiation and not the solar magnetic field and related effects.


67 posted on 07/11/2007 4:34:49 AM PDT by palmer
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To: HEY4QDEMS

Do you spend all your time reading my mind?


68 posted on 07/11/2007 4:36:07 AM PDT by Timocrat (I Emanate on your Auras and Penumbras Mr Blackmun)
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To: Timocrat

I think they’re saying that both sun and earth magnetic fields would tend to shunt incoming heavy nuclei aka cosmic rays away from the earth. But in what experimental vessel did anybody ever verify this basic assertion about cosmic rays and clouds?


69 posted on 07/11/2007 4:37:36 AM PDT by drlevy88
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To: rhombus

It was my understanding that the incident solar radiation striking and heating the Earth has increased recently. I recall a paper from the Max Plank Solar Institute. I fee uneasy about this article because of the lack of a reference.


70 posted on 07/11/2007 4:38:12 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (Swift as the wind; Calmly majestic as a forest; Steady as the mountains.)
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To: Timocrat

Your confusing the reporting with the science.


71 posted on 07/11/2007 4:38:28 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry

MurryMom was also quite fond of jumping to huge conclusions in a single bound. She hasn’t been heard from in quite a long time. Give your mom a call!


72 posted on 07/11/2007 4:39:45 AM PDT by drlevy88
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To: Timocrat

I saw that, I can only assume it was typo, but you would certainly expect better since the topic seems to be closed to further study. You know the alternate theory being so firmly dispensed and all.


73 posted on 07/11/2007 4:40:08 AM PDT by WildcatClan (Duncan Hunter '08)
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To: Citizen Tom Paine
Unfortunately, all we have is the abstract of the article...and a Guardian science reporter who has only the barest comprehension of either reporting or science.

But the abstract is pretty good.

74 posted on 07/11/2007 4:40:48 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
A lot of people seem to believe a news article that says "a real smart guy says man made CO2 is warming the earth and the sun isn't".    Second hand info sucks.  We live in an age were we can get our own numbers, confirm them by taking our own measurements, and then do our own analysis.   It's not all that hard.


75 posted on 07/11/2007 4:42:05 AM PDT by expat_panama
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To: LibLieSlayer; saganite

“I have seen dozens of pictures of those “weather monitor stations” that were placed next to air conditioner outputs, incinerators, asphalt pads, black top parking lots etc.” ~ LibLieSlayer

Here’s the link: http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/weather_stations/


76 posted on 07/11/2007 4:42:24 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (Bilingual education involves the difficult achievement of learning nothing in two languages. ~Gagdad)
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To: drlevy88

What conclusions have I jumped to? Aren’t you confusing me with the reporter and the reporter with the scientists? Once again. Are you really a Doctor? I’d hate to think so since your ability to reason is so poor.


77 posted on 07/11/2007 4:43:10 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: APFel
The Earth is warming. We need more rock concerts.
Excellent. How succinctly you have expressed the Prime Idiocy of the 21st Century.
78 posted on 07/11/2007 4:44:05 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: liberallarry
Sure...and Einstein was wrong because he made a simple arithmetic error. Give it a rest.

I can't work out what you're talking about. Is it your contention that solar insolation ISN'T the primary factor in global temperature?

In which case its time to EAT SOME GRAPHS!!! :0)

The following is a collection of temperature reconstructions. Note the sinusoidal variations in temperature over the last 1000 years. Note the high temperatures 1000 years ago. Perhaps the Guardian can explain how those evil Greenlanders managed to drive temperatures so high in 1000 AD. And why temperatures got so low in the 1600's?


79 posted on 07/11/2007 4:44:15 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: liberallarry

the time frame’s too small, I think. Also, if the mass of the Earth were heated, it would release the heat when external cooling occurred. Just like the mass used to passively heat some homes.

But again, since when do scientists decide anything based on one study of such a small time frame? When they are politicians, not scientists.


80 posted on 07/11/2007 4:45:52 AM PDT by Puddleglum
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To: liberallarry

The reporters’ veracity has appeared to exceed that of these scientists.


81 posted on 07/11/2007 4:47:05 AM PDT by drlevy88
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To: expat_panama
We live in an age were we can get our own numbers, confirm them by taking our own measurements, and then do our own analysis.

No IPCC grant for you!

82 posted on 07/11/2007 4:47:18 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: docbnj
long after the Industrial Revolution was under weigh.
On a diet? :>)
83 posted on 07/11/2007 4:49:07 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: liberallarry
The planet's climate has long fluctuated, say the climate sceptics

Have these idiots never heard of the ice ages?
84 posted on 07/11/2007 4:50:01 AM PDT by true_blue_texican (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic...)
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To: federal
I’m old enough to remember the “Global cooling” and “Population Explosion” which the scientist where so sure would end the world before the year 2000.

Me too.

I even questioned Erlich about his loss to Simon and his disagreement with his collegue Thomas Sowell. His response was that only his timing was wrong. An unpleasant character that Erlich...but I think he was correct.

As for global cooling and other scientific hypothesis which have been shown to be wrong...so what? If you're trying to say that all human knowledge is conditional and limited, you're right. If you're trying to say that science is always wrong, you're dead wrong.

85 posted on 07/11/2007 4:51:56 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: true_blue_texican
Have these idiots never heard of the ice ages?

You mean scientists who study climate? Gee, I don't know. Maybe they don't read the same comic books you do. What do you think?

86 posted on 07/11/2007 4:55:14 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry

Well, it does look rather ridiculous for these slyentists to peer at this forest through a mere 25 year wide drinking straw.


87 posted on 07/11/2007 4:56:48 AM PDT by drlevy88
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To: drlevy88
The reporters’ veracity has appeared to exceed that of these scientists.

How so? Have you read the full report? I doubt it. I doubt you've even read the abstract.

88 posted on 07/11/2007 4:57:32 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
If you're trying to say that science is always wrong, you're dead wrong.

Something we can all agree on. It's the poisoning of science with vast injections of government money that seems to be the problem.

89 posted on 07/11/2007 4:57:37 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: drlevy88
Well, it does look rather ridiculous for these slyentists to peer at this forest through a mere 25 year wide drinking straw.

There's no limit to your foolishness, is there? They're pointing out that correlations which held over long periods of time in the past do not apply in the most recent 25 years.

90 posted on 07/11/2007 5:00:07 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry

Hmmm... No, liberallarry, I think you are confused as to which persons are relying on comic book thinking.


91 posted on 07/11/2007 5:00:13 AM PDT by true_blue_texican (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic...)
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To: liberallarry

“i’d hate to think so since your ability to reason is so poor.”

very strange. disagreement with a liberal brings condescension, denigration, insult. just like disagreeing with those fellows who broke all those windows so many years ago. (insufferable, global-warming goosesteppers, one and all, not to mention punks.)


92 posted on 07/11/2007 5:00:30 AM PDT by ripley
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To: agere_contra
It's the poisoning of science with vast injections of government money that seems to be the problem

Unfortunately, it costs a great deal of money to do modern experiments...there's no way around it.

93 posted on 07/11/2007 5:01:56 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: agere_contra

D-—— if you do, d-—— if you don’t. Either that, or it seems to get hidden behind costly gates for the eyes of the elite (like this particular one). A field of study whose consequences are as profound as this deserves to happen in the public domain, where any Jane or Joe with Matlab or similar tool can crunch the equations and numbers and say either bravo or bunkum to the leading theories for themselves.


94 posted on 07/11/2007 5:02:46 AM PDT by drlevy88
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To: liberallarry

The tiny time period makes it impossible to answer the question of whether we are looking at a valid representative of a trend of centuries or a mere piece of noise.


95 posted on 07/11/2007 5:05:07 AM PDT by drlevy88
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To: ripley
very strange. disagreement with a liberal brings condescension, denigration, insult

You seem to be suffering from the same limitations as Levy, who began the denigration and insult (under the guise of wit). Look closely at my posts. I am not an equal opportunity insulter. I treat with respect those who deserve it...and they don't have to agree with me to deserve it, they just have to be capable of arguing well.

96 posted on 07/11/2007 5:05:33 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
Perhaps I should have said agenda-driven Government money.
97 posted on 07/11/2007 5:05:34 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: Matchett-PI

BINGO!

LLS


98 posted on 07/11/2007 5:05:52 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims!)
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To: liberallarry

I just love to keep poking rabid wildcats with a stick.


99 posted on 07/11/2007 5:08:51 AM PDT by drlevy88
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To: agere_contra

Yummy graphs, contra, thanks. ;-)


100 posted on 07/11/2007 5:11:01 AM PDT by true_blue_texican (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic...)
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