Posted on 07/16/2007 4:13:26 AM PDT by Kaslin
Really? If you're going to bandy about the word "Christian", and try to use that to justify yourself, you need to get the facts straight.
It's not your behavior that's the issue with God, it's your nature, which you are born with and about which you can do nothing. You can never engage in enough of what you consider "good behavior" to please God. Your nature has to change, and you can't change your nature any more than a lion can stop hunting gazelle. There is only one Person Who can change the nature of man and make man acceptable to Himself.
(MY OWN EXTREMELY KEEN CONSCIENCE, THE OPINION OF OTHERS AND YOUR OWN BIBLE - BUT NOT BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT WAS DIVINELY-INSPIRED IN ANY WAY. I’M NOT STUPID ENOUGH TO BELIEVE ANYTHING SO LUDICROUS. DO YOU ASSUME THAT THERE WEREN’T ANY DECENT PEOPLE IN ANTIQUITY WHO COULD WRITE SUCH COMMON-SENSE THINGS?)
Excellent!! Based on that, each and every person can determine his behavior based on his own "extremely keen conscience" and call it "exemplary" and we all have to accept it! This would include killers, rapists, thieves - everybody gets to determine his own definition of exemplary behavior and we all just have to live with it! I'm sure all of those people aren't stupid enough to believe anything so ludicrous as the Holy Word of God either. Thanks for clearing that up.
Just to clear something else up. God wrote Scripture:
16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
not "decent people". "Decent people" could not have prophesized events that would happen hundreds and thousands of years before they actually did, and "decent people" would never write a Book condemning themselves to hell. God wrote Scriptre, and He means every word that's in Scripture.
{YOUR PUTATIVE GOD IS PRETTY INCOMPETENT, THEN.)
God created a perfect world and He's incompetent? No, I'd say that the creation, mankind, who chose to sin and rebel against God and who was responsible for making the world the way it is now, is what is incompetent.
(WRONG – ACCORDING TO YOU HE DESIGNED MY MIND - I AM USING THE CRITICAL THINKING AND ANALYTICAL SKILLS HE SUPPOSEDLY GAVE ME TO ANALYZE THE WORLD WE LIVE IN BY LOGICAL MEANS)
No, you are viewing things through the prism of your fallen mind- through your mind which has rejected God and therefore has no wisdom and knowledge whatsoever. Your "logic" is simply your thought processes absent from knowledge of God and wisdom from Him. Your "logic" is not logic at all- just your own hostility and animosity against God, and your own efforts to deny Him and reject Him in any way that you can. It's not "logic" at all.
Man brought sin into this world, (NO, GOD DID BY CREATING A FLAWED CREATION - SO HE MUST’VE DELIBERATELY WANTED TO CREATE SIN)
Again, you are speaking from a position of not knowing truth because you have rejected Truth, and are, right now, comfortable with your hatred of God and rejection of Him, and so you have no idea of what you are talking about. If you want to have a discussion of exactly what happened in the Garden, and how man chose to deliberately disobey God and rebel against Him, and how, as a result of that rebellion, man brought sin into the world and a curse on the world, we can do that. But as it stands now, the statement that "God created a flawed creation" is nothing more than a lie.
(NO, IT’S THE RESULT OF YOUR OMNIBENEVOLENT GOD’S MISTAKE IN CREATING A FLAWED CREATION)
See above statement.
OR FROM THE DEPREDATIONS OF HIS OTHER FLAWED CREATIONS WHEN THEY DECIDE TO COMMIT VIOLENCE UPON THE INNOCENT. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO ME IF I RAISED VICIOUS PIT BULLS, THEN DELIBERATELY RELEASED THEM INTO THE COMMUNITY ON A REGULAR BASIS TO ATTACK EVERYBODY. WOULD THIS BE A CRIME)
Man wanted sin, man got sin. Man wants to hate and reject God, man has the freedom to hate and reject God, and man gets to live with the consequences of his hate. Man wants God out of his life, man wants God to leave him alone, man gets left alone. And yes, we have laws against releasing attack dogs into communities. That has nothing to do with man kicking God out of his life. You don't want God, around, fine, but then don't get mad when He leaves and don't get mad when what you want results in depravity, death, and destruction
CAN’T BLAME MAN, AS MAN IS A DELIBERATELY-FLAWED CREATION)
See above statement. Man is not deliberately flawed- man chose sin, man continues to choose sin, man lives with the consequences of sin. That is not the fault of God. If you throw yourself off the Golden Gate Bridge, whose fault is it if you die?
(MY FACTS ARE AS STRAIGHT AS LASER BEAM IN A GRAVITY-FREE ENIRONMENT. YOUR “FACTS” ARE BASED ON IGNORANT, PRIMITIVE SUPERSTITIOUS DOGMA)
I don't think so. My facts are provable and true based on thousands of years of human history. You're posting to me that God created man in his current flawed condition without reconciling and explaining to me God's account in Scripture of what happened, which, by the way, has proven to be true. I stand by my facts.
(YAH, IT’S CALLED SCIENCE. NANOTECHNOLOGY WILL SOMEDAY GIVE US NOT ONLY ETERNAL YOUTH BUT THE ABILITY TO BE REBUILT EVEN IF WE ARE BLOWN TO BITS. I ONLY WISH WE ALREADY HAD THAT TECHNOLOGY)
Let me know when that "someday" arrives. In the meantime, I'll go with what God said would happen, which has been happening for thousands of years. People die, and, according to the account God gives us in Scripture, there are alot of people who are suffering eternal death; Scripture records the instance where one of whom who was in hell begged for a drop of water. I keep hearing about all these new, miraculous, discoveries of science which are going to save us all, and people are still dying. I think I'll just go with what God said.
(THE SAME MERCY AND LOVE THAT CREATED EVIL? AND HELL?) Yep. The same mercy that created a hell for Satan, the actual creator of evil, not God, and the same mercy that created a paradise for those who love God and choose to accept Him and who want to be with Him. That's wonderful, inexplicable mercy.
(AND HE DOESN’T, DEMONSTRABLY. COULD IT BE BECAUSE HE DOESN’T EXIST?)
No, He doesn't because He created man with free will and free choice and will not interfere with the choices and decisions that man makes. He will not force Himself on anyone, and He will not meddle in the lives of people who want nothing to do with Him. He has already made a way for man to be reconciled to Him, to come to Him for salvation, and to have a relationship with Him and to fellowship with Him. He will not force people who want nothing to do with Him to have anything to do with Him. You are discounting your responsiblity in your nonexistent relationship with God and trying to blame your life and your rage on Him. It won't fly.
(INCLUDING BABIES THAT ARE STRANGLED BY THEIR UMBILICAL CORDS AT BIRTH? HOW IS THIS GOD’S MERCY? WOULD YOU REALLY SHUT WHATEVER LIMITED ABILITY TO REASON YOU POSSESS OFF AND WORSHIP SUCH AN EVIL GOD? NOT FOR ME, THANKS!)
People spend eternity in hell because of their rejection of Christ. A baby cannot make that decision. Although they are still born with a sin nature, they do not have the capacity to understand what Christ did for them and therefore cannot make the deliberate choice to reject Christ. Babies to not go to hell.
(I THOUGHT THAT THE SINS OF THE FATHER WERE NOT VISITED UPON THE CHILDREN? DEPENDS ON WHICH VERSION OF THE BIBLE YOU READ, AND WHICH PART YOU DECIDE TO BELIEVE, I GUESS
Well, the version that has proven to be absolutely accurate and true over the thousands of years since it was written says that He does:
18 'The Lord is longsuffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation. (Numbers 14:18).
But the unfortunate, inconvenient fact is that, regardless of the original sin of Adam, people who live in this day and age still choose to sin and rebel against God and reject Him. And you can't find anything in Scripture to blame that on. Unfortunately, again, we are responsible for our own choices and decisions and God will hold us responsible for our own choices and decisions.
(REALLY? WHY? SINCE YOUR GOD DOES NOT SEE FIT TO TOUCH ME WITH HIS GRACE, WHY WOULD ANOTHER MERE HUMAN BEING HAVE COMPASSION FOR ME? AREN’T YOU AFRAID GOD WILL BE DISPLEASED WITH YOU FOR OFFERING COMFORT TO A BLASPHEMER? WHY BOTHER WITH ME IF GOD DOESN’T EVEN WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME BECAUSE I AM SO WORTHLESS AND EVIL?
Don't try to blame your rejection of God on Him. If God hasn't "touched you with His grace" it's because you have chosen to reject Him. You have made it more than abundantly clear that you have rage against God and want nothing to do with Him. Like I said before, God will not force Himself on you. He has provided a way for you to come to Him, but you completely reject that, and insist on having it your way. That's fine, and that's your perogative, but don't try to blame God for giving you what you want.
What makes you think that God wants nothing to do with you? If God wanted nothing to do with you, would He have given the life of His Son for you? On the contrary, God yearns for you, God pines for you, God has a plan for your life and good things for you that He would love to do for you, but you don't want anything to do with Him. You refuse to let God into your life and your heart. You cling to your bitterness and anger which comes from things that have happened in your life which God had nothing to do with. You have the opportunity to have peace and joy, but you refuse to accept and take that opportunity. Don't blame God. He is there- but you will not take His hand.
And, on the contrary, God is very pleased that I am telling you about Him and telling you that He loves you and yearns to be a part of your life and be a friend and a savior to you. Like I said, God created all of us with a plan for our lives, but we cannot know that plan and cannot live the adventure that is a relationship with God unless we answer His call and come to Him for forgiveness and salvation.
YES, HE DID. BEING OMNISCIENT, HE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE WORLD FOR ALL ITS FUTURE HISTORY. HE WENT RIGHT AHEAD AND CREATED IT ANYWAY WITH MALICE AFORETHOUGHT THAT IT WOULD FAIL. HOW MERCIFUL IS THIS? SAME APPLIES TO LUCIFER; GOD CREATED SATAN ALSO, WITH THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT HE WOULD REBEL, AND ALL THE FUTURE PROBLEMS THAT THIS WOULD CAUSE IN HEAVEN AND EARTH, AND GOD JUST LET IT HAPPEN ANYWAY. DOESN’T SAY A LOT FOR HIM, DOES IT? ALSO, I’M GLAD YOU HAVE SUCH A PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF GOD’S CONSCIENCE. DOES HE TALK TO YOU DIRECTLY OR DO YOU HAVE VISIONS?)
I don't pretend to have all the answers. I know what God has told us, and I know that there is something about this creation and us that was so precious to God that He, knowing full well what would happen, created us anyway and sacrificed His Son so that there would be some, but not all, who would find Him and love Him and be with Him for eternity. There would always be some who exercised their right to reject God and be separated from Him for all eternity. I know that He never would have done it differently; I know that even if He destroyed His first creation He would have done everything exactly the same, giving us free will and free choice because there is no other way. Would you like to be a robot with no capacity to make your own choices and no capacity to choose who you will love? Is that what you're saying? Would you like to be just a puppet on a string?
God has told us what we need to know to get through this life and have eternal life after we die. I know that He created me, I know that His Son died in my place and took the punishment for my sin that I deserved, I know that I made a choice to accept that death as atonement for my sins, and I know the abundant life that I have had since then. I know what is to be able to depend on God, to trust Him to meet my needs, to rest in His love and care, to have fellowship with Him, to know that I have eternal security. And I know what life was like before I made that choice and I know how far God has brought me since I made that choice. I don't know all the facts about what exactly is going on, but I know that God has told me what I need to know, and based on my personal experience and my life with Him, that is enough.
And no, I don't have visions. Scripture reading and prayer are more than enough for me.
(I SEE, IT’S A KANGAROO COURT. HOW INFINITELY JUST!)
No, it's a holy, righteous God Who told us beforehand what to expect and now for those who have chosen to reject Him, stand before Him, completely helpless and alone, to give an account of their lives and their choice to live their lives apart from Him. It is perfectly just and perfectly fair. It's part of the information that God gives us so that we can make informed choices.
(IWAS SPEAKING OF JESUS’S CLAIM “I AM THE WAY” - NOT YOU, YOU INTELLECTUALLY-LIMITED CREATURE. I WAS ALSO SPEAKING OF CHARLES MANSON, JIM JONES, AND ALL THE OTHER CRACKPOTS WHO HAVE MADE THE SAME STATEMENT THROUGHOUT HISTORY, AND LED PEOPLE INTO HORRIBLE FATES, INCLUDING MURDER, SUICIDE AND GENOCIDE. YOUR MISTAKE IN NOT RECOGNIZING THIS REVEALS THAT YOU ARE USED TO JUST TAKING THE LITERAL MEANING OF THE WORDS YOU READ, AND NOT LOOK FOR OTHER POSSIBLE MEANINGS. HOW INTELLECTUALLY LIMITED OF YOU)
If you think you're insulting me by attacking my "intellectual" ability, you're not. I'll take the foolishness of God over the "wisdom" of man any day:
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness"; 20 and again, "The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile." (1 Corinthinians 3:19, 20)
Your highly regarded "intellectualism" is, to God, a joke:
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? (1 Cor. 1:20)
God holds the "wisdom" of this world in derision. And as for Jim Jones and Charles Manson, why are you bringing them up? They had nothing to do with God Satan himself can quote Scripute and it means absolutely nothing. To say that Jim Jones and Charles Manson knew some Scripture is meaningless.
You're right- I do take the words of Scripture literally. They have been proven to be literally true.
(YOU NEED TO FIND ANY EXCUSE HERE BECAUSE MY TRUE STATEMENT REVEALS THAT WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG IS TRUE. WHAT BETTER TIME FOR GOD TO SHOW ME HIS MERCY THAN AT SUCH A HORRIBLE MOMENT. IF ONLY THAT WAS THE WORST IN MY LIFE - IT BECAME FAR WORSE AFTER THAT – THROUGH NO FAULT OF MY OWN, I MIGHT ADD!)
When you cried out for His help, did you cry out for forgiveness? Did you cry out for Him to forgive you and to save you? Did you cry out to His Son for salvation? Your sin debt must be dealt with before God can be involved in your life.
OH YES THERE WAS!! I WAS RAISED A CATHOLIC. ALSO - YOU ARE MAKING EXCUSES BECAUSE YOU “KNOW” THAT YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED - AND IF YOU ARE SAVED IT MUST WORK FOR EVERYBODY. IF IT DOESN’T WORK FOR EVERYBODY, THEN IT MUST BE FALSE. THIS IS WHY YOU SO DESPERATELY ARE TRYING TO IMAGINE THAT I AM NOT AN EXEMPLARY PERSON (I AM) BECAUSE IF HE DOESN’T HELP ME, THEN 2 POSSIBILITIES PRESENT THEMSELVES 1) HE DOESN’T EXIST, OR CARE ABOUT US IF HE DOES, 2) I AM NOT WORTHY OF SAVING.)
It doesn't matter what demonination you were raised in- God's offer of eternal life is not contingent on what "religon" you are. Was there ever a time in your life when you went to God, broken in your sins, acknowledged to Him that you know you are a sinner, acknowledged to Him that you recognize the death of His Son on the Cross was the only acceptable atonement for your sin, and asked Him to forgive you and save you and be your Lord? THIS IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN KNOW GOD. Not by going to confession, not by taking communion, not by being sprinkled with water as a baby, not by owning rosaries, not by memorizing rote prayers. The only way to be forgiven and to know God and to have a relationship with Him is to go to Him and ask Him to forgive you and come into your life and save you. IT IS THE ONLY WAY.
There is NO ONE on the face of the earth who will be turned away and be rejected and discarded by God who comes to Him seeking Him and asking forgiveness and asking for salvation. NO ONE. And that includes YOU.
I am saying that, apart from the atoning death of Jesus Christ, no one is considered "exemplary" before God. God says:
There is none righteous, no, not one. (Romans 3:10)
and
6 But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away. (Isaiah 64:6).
Apart from God, and His Son, and His saving grace, we, and all our good works, are, in the words of God, "like filthy rags". Again, it is not our behavior that is the problem, it is our nature and that, we are born with.
God exists, He cares about us, He loves us so much that He sent His Son to die in our place, and Jesus Christ considered you so important and wanted to be with you for eternity so bad that He died for you too.
(NONSENSE! THIS IS JUST MORE BEHAVIOR-MODIFICATION FEARMONGERING THAT THE EARLY CHURCH(ES) FOISTED UPON THE IGNORANT TO FRIGHTEN THEM INTO BELIEVING IN ORDER TO GIVE THEM SWAY OVER THE POPULUS AND THE ABILITY TO COLLECT TITHES TO INCREASE THE POWER OF THE CHURCH.
Jesus Christ came to this earth and died on a cross long before there was any church. God said that we have a sin debt- if the "early churches" used this to "fearmonger", that certainly had nothing to do with God or the fact that he said that man is a sinner and will suffer eternal death apart from His Son. And you cannot "frighten" someone into believing in Jesus Christ and accepting Him as Savior- it is an impossibility. A person has to make a choice to come to Christ and accept Him as Savior. If a person claims to be a Christian, and that includes those who hold themselves out as church "leaders", and yet has never accepted Christ as Savior, that person is a liar.
(A PERSON? I THOUGHT HE WAS *GOD*??)
He is a Person, with a personality, and emotions, and an intellect. He is also God.
(PRIMITIVE, IGNORANT, SUPERSTITIOUS RHETORIC)
Well, you certainly have the freedom to disparage and rip to shreds the Word of God. Satan has been doing it for millennia. Your denial of Scripture does not make it untrue or irrelevant. I have nothing to gain by lying to you. Nothing at all.
(AND WHY WOULD AN INFINITELY-MERCIFUL GOD ALLOW ONE OF HIS MOST PIOUS DEVOTEES TO SUFFER SO, WHEN IN HIS OMNIPOTENCE HE KNEW THAT JOB WOULD PASS THE TEST ANYWAY? ISN’T THIS NOTHING SHORT OF SADISTIC?)
Because it is through difficulty and testing and hardship that a person's faith grows stronger. It is difficulty and testing and hardship that brings us to the end of ourselves and our own abilities and sends us to our knees before God, begging for His help. It is through our weakness that God can work through us, and accomplish great things through us, and gives God a chance to show us what He can do.
God knew Job would pass the test, but Job didn't know that he would pass the test, and Job benefitted greatly from the difficulties that he went through. Job grew into a closer relationship with God, grew in his faith, and because Job remained faithful to God through the horrible circumstances, God not only replaced what Job had lost, but added to it.
What Job went through was not because God is sadistic, but because it was through Job's difficulties and weaknesses that much was accomplished by God - part of which is the fact that we now have Job's story to go to whenever we are going through testing and hardship and draw strength and encouragement from the fact that he remained true to God and never gave up his faith in the goodness and mercy of God. And Job's endurance and faithfulness paid great dividends, not just for himself, but for all of humanity.
(YOU CAN’T HAVE A PERSONAL REALTIONSHIP WITH SOMETHING THAT DOESN’T EXIST)
I am telling you that I have a personal relationship with a God Who not only exists, but is personally involved in my life. I am telling you there was a time in my life when I did not know God and I'm telling you that there is a profound difference in my life between those two periods in my life. Why don't you stop and consider for a moment that there may be more to this whole God thing than you are aware of?
(IT WASN’T MY CHOICE FOR MY FATHER, A TOTALLY COMMITED CHRISTIAN, AND WWII VETERAN OF 3.5 YEARS OF NIGHTMARISH JUNGLE WARFARE IN THE PACIFIC, AND, LATER, VALEDICTORIAN OF HIS CLASS IN MEDICAL SCHOOL, TO DIE HORRIFICALLY OF CANCER WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER.
No, it wasn't your choice and it wasn't his either. Death in all its forms is horrible. Death is a result of sin and we all will die someday. But if your father was a committed Christian, then he is with Jesus Christ right now and you can rest easy about him. Whether or not you will see him again is up to you.
IT WASN’T MY CHOICE FOR MY MOTHER TO BE PSYCHOTIC AND THROW ME, (AN HONOR STUDENT WHO DIDN’T DRINK, SMOKE OR DO DRUGS OR ANYTHING ELSE WRONG) OUT IN THE STREET, AFTER ALMOST 2 DECADES OF HORRIFIC EMOTIONAL AND PHYSICAL ABUSE AT HER HANDS. IT WASN’T MY CHOICE THAT SHE SOLD THE HOUSE I GREW UP IN FOR 1/3 OF ITS APPRAISED VALUE, AND TO SEND THE REST OF THE MONEY TO MY COKE-ADDICT OLDER BROTHER TO PUT UP HIS NOSE. IT WASN’T MY CHOICE THAT A DRUNK DRIVER RAN A STOP SIGN AND SPLATTERED ME ALL OVER THE ROAD ON MY MOTORCYCLE 3 MONTHS AFTER MY FATHER DIED. IT WASN’T MY CHOICE THAT I WOKE UP 2 WEEKS LATER IN THE HOSPITAL WITH A SHATTERED RIGHT LEG, AND NO INSURANCE BECAUSE THE MOMSTER CANCELED IT BEFORE MY FATHER WAS COLD. IT WASN’T MY CHOICE TO HAVE TO REPAY $23,000.00 IN MEDICAL BILLS (THE COST OF 3 BRAND-NEW CARS AT THE TIME). IT WASN’T MY CHOICE TO HAVE TO LIVE AT MY GIRLFRIENDS HOUSE WHILE I RECUPERATED FOR A YEAR AS MY MOTHER WOULDN’T ALLOW ME, AN INVALID, TO STAY AT HOME. IF I’D STAYED THERE, I GUESS IT WOULD’VE COST HER $20 A WEEK FOR FOOD, OR MAYBE SOMEHOW MAKE HER RESPONSIBLE FOR MY MEDICAL BILLS. WHEN I ASKED HER WHY SHE CANCELED MY HEALTH INSURANCE, AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE MEDICAL BILLS, SHE SAID SHE’D GIVE ME A RIDE TO THE WELFARE OFFICE. IT *WAS* MY CHOICE NOT TO DO THAT; I’D RATHER STARVE THAN TAKE CHARITY FROM THE STATE. AFTER I’D RECOVERED, I LIVED IN A TENT IN THE STATE FOREST FOR SEVERAL YEARS, THROUGH BITTER NEW ENGLAND WINTERS AND BLIZZARDS, EATING RABBITS, GROUSE AND THE OCCASIONAL SQUIRREL, (AND CANNED BEANS , TURKEY AND YAMS WERE ALWAYS A TREAT FOR THANKSGIVING OR CHRISTMAS!) STAYING ONE STEP AHEAD OF THE RANGERS, AND TAKING OUT STUDENT LOANS SO THAT I COULD AFFORD TO GO TO A CHEAP STATE COLLEGE. IT *WAS* MY CHOICE TO WORK 2 JOBS AND GO TO COLLEGE FULL-TIME. I WAS A BRINKS GUARD AND I WAS HIRED TO WORK IN THE COLLEGE COMPUTER LABORATORY, ANSWERING USER QUESTIONS AND TEACHING INTRODUCTORY CLASSES ON THE CYBER MAINFRAME. AT NO POINT DID I DROWN MY SORROWS IN ALCOHOL OR DRUGS, NOR STEAL, NO MATTER HOW HUNGRY I BECAME. THE PRECEDING IS ONLY A TINY PORTION OF THE UNPLEASANTRIES I HAVE FACED IN LIFE, NONE BEING MY CHOICE. IF ANYONE HAS A RIGHT TO BE MAD, IT’S ME. BUT I’M NOT. I REALIZE THAT THERE IS NO GOD, AND THEREFORE, NOBODY “HAS IT IN FOR ME”. IT WAS ALL JUST A MATTER OF STATISTICAL BAD LUCK, THAT’S ALL. BUT WHAT DOES ANGER ME, ARE PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELVES WHO IGNORE ALL THE EVIDENCE, NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, BUT COMMON-SENSE, WITH YOUR SUPERIOR KNOW-IT-ALL ATTITUDES AND SMUG JUDGMENTALISM OF OTHERS WHO DO NOT SHARE YOUR BELIEFS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO INTELLIGENT TO BE TAKEN IN BY PRIMITIVE SUPERSTITION. YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK WITH YOUR PIOUS PREACHING OF LIES BASED ON THE WRITINGS OF A BUNCH OF IGNORANT SAVAGES. I DID NOT BRING ANY OF THE AFOREMENTIONED UNPLEASANTRIES UPON MYSELF – THIS WAS DONE BY FORCES EXTERNAL TO ME. NEED I POINT OUT AGAIN THAT NOT ONE OF YOU HAS REFUTED ANY OF THE BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS THAT I HAVE POSTED. ALL YOU DO IS DENY THAT IT IS A CONTRADICTION (WITHOUT PRESENTING ANY EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY), STATE THAT THE REASON IT IS NOT CONTRADICTORY IS SO OBVIOUS THAT IT NEED NOT BE EXPLAINED (YAH, RIGHT), OR IGNORE IT, OR QUOTE SCRIPTURE AT ME AS IF THAT IS ANY PROOF OF ANYTHING. ENJOY YOUR COLLECTIVE DELUSION. I CHOOSE TO LIVE MY LIFE IN REALITY, NOT IN SOME FOOLISH FAIRY TALE.
Nothing that your mother did was your fault and she was, as you describe her, a monster of a human being. Terrible things have happened to you in your life- terrible things happen in a fallen world where sin is rampant. And it is normal to be enraged at God when you believe that God has the power to stop injustices but didn't stop the ones committed against you. I would be mad too- I have been mad at God. But you were brought through all of the horrors that happened to you and you were brought through it for a reason. No matter what has happened to you, God still loves you and still wants you and still wants to spend eternity with you. The time will come when all will be made right, when all that is unjust will be made just, when monstrous people are given what they deserve. That will happen- God promises that and He always keeps His promises. The question for you at this point in your life is will you give God another chance? I don't know all the circumstances that surrounded your previous attempt to reach out to God- but I do know that He will save you, will be there for you when you hurt, will put His arms around you and will make you whole. I know because I have experienced it.
I am not smug, I am not self-righteous. I am a sinner who was snatched from the flames by the grace of God- and I will never stop telling others what God has done for them and will do for them if they will let Him. None of this is a fairy-tale.
Is he absolutely sure of that?
Was there ever a time in your life when you went to God, broken in your sins, acknowledged to Him that you know you are a sinner, acknowledged to Him that you recognize the death of His Son on the Cross was the only acceptable atonement for your sin, and asked Him to forgive you and save you and be your Lord? THIS IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN KNOW GOD.
That is exactly what I was told to do by a committed Christian at the time. Shortly after that, at a very low point in my life, I did so with utter sincerity. Nothing happened - things only became much, much worse. The only thing that has “saved” me in life is that I never gave up. I am very successful now, with an extremely beautiful, loving and talented wife. I didn’t get to where I am in life with help from anybody, including “God”. I did so by hard work and perseverance. I doubt one person in 100 would go through what I did and come out on top. (I’ve only mentioned some of the difficulties I have faced. There are a lot more.) But I did it. As far as I am concerned, my life is completely full now. With my wife by my side, we can grow old and she and I can face oblivion together, as people have since the beginning of time. Thanks for wishing me well, that was kind of you. However, I do not think we will ever see eye-to-eye on the religion thing. I just understand way too much about science, logic and philosophy, as well as religions in general, to accept such outlandish beliefs as true.
What would you have to see to believe God is true?
I presume that Mr. Polkinghorne (interesting name btw) is a human and therefore I'll stick w/ my original statement.
Do you know the difference between observation and physical states? I guess not ^_^ Investigating when the wave packet collapses has nothing to do with the superposition principle.
Aside from the fact that you’re replying to a reply I made over a year ago (LOL)...
I disagree.
That bit of logic only applies to a linear time line. If One could know all outcomes of a future decision, but reserve the right to make that decision later, then One can be both all-knowing and all-powerful.
Also, One can choose to not know an outcome of every action. I would guess that being truly all-knowing would be kind of boring. Perhaps the free-will that God has granted us is part of that.
bump for l8r
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