Guns don't kill people, Phila. does

Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | Jul. 17, 2007 | John Lott, Maxim Lott

[new cruelty]

When Mayor Street spent 15 hours waiting in line for an iPhone recently, the city was not impressed by his love of new technology. Rather, Street had to answer to a passerby asking, "How can you sit here with 200 murders in the city already?"

Local politicians say they know the source of the problem: the lack of gun control. Gov. Rendell recently complained the state legislature "has been in the control of the NRA." Street blames the increasing murder rate on "the dangerous proliferation of guns on our city streets." Last Tuesday, two City Council members announced the novel legal tactic of suing the state government to let Philadelphia pass its own gun laws.

The desire "to do something" is understandable, but new gun laws aren't the answer.

In the five years from 2001 to 2006, Philadelphia's murder rate soared more than 36 percent while nationally, the murder rate increased only 2 percent. Indeed, only two other cities in the top 40 experienced a sharper rise in murder rates, according to FBI crime statistics.

But if the cause of more murders in Philadelphia is the lack of yet more gun control, why isn't murder increasing in the rest of Pennsylvania? Pittsburgh saw just a 7 percent increase.

Why haven't murder rates gone up in the rest of the country? Should Phoenix, the city closest in size to Philadelphia, claim that its murder rate remained virtually unchanged for the last five years because of the supposed lack of new gun control? How should Dallas explain its 24 percent drop in murder?

It is not that guns are more likely to be used in Philadelphia murders, either. The proportion of murders involving guns is similar to that of other cities.

It would appear that Philadelphia's problems have something to do with Philadelphia, not the lack of more gun control coming out of Washington or Harrisburg.

Could it be that Philadelphia simply isn't doing such a great job at law enforcement? Since 2001, Philadelphia's arrest rate for murder has fallen by 20 percent, according to the Pennsylvania Uniform Crime Reporting System. Nationally, and among cities with more than 250,000 people, arrest rates have remained virtually unchanged. It isn't so surprising that Philly's murder rate has gone up more than in other cities. After all, criminals are getting away with murder in Philadelphia.

Sure, Philadelphia has slightly fewer police than it had in 2001, but that drop is no different from the small drop that has occurred nationally. What is different is that Philadelphia has experienced a significant drop in arrests per officer relative to the rest of the country.

But it is not just a problem of police. The city is seeing lower conviction rates, and it is not keeping criminals in jail for very long. One could make up for this difference by hiring more police - research has shown the number of police officers to be the main factor in reducing crime. But Philadelphia's problem is how it uses the police it has.

Pointing to more gun-control laws as the solution is simply a way for politicians to pass the blame. Besides, such proposals offer little hope for actually reducing the murder rate. They've all been tried before, from one-gun-a-month limits and reporting stolen guns to the ultimate catchall - letting Philadelphia pass its own gun laws again.

Take the law that seems to be Rendell's favorite: the one-gun-a-month purchase rule. It would reduce the number of gun shows in the state by about 25 percent and shut some stores. But since just a fraction of one percent of criminals with guns get their weapons at gun shows, there would be few benefits from those restrictions. Collectors or those who might legitimately want to get more than one gun at a time are the ones who are inconvenienced. In fact, no published academic study by criminologists or economists shows that such limits reduce violent crime.

The sooner local politicians stop playing politics in the state Capitol and realize that the problem lies in the city's low rate of solving crimes, the sooner the problem will be under control. After all, Philadelphia's current gun laws are similar to those of many others around the country.

What is not the same? In Philadelphia, criminals are less likely to answer for their crimes.

[Incorrigible]

Related thread:

Philly mayor John F. Street gets iPhone [And an earful from angry residents!]

 

[samtheman]

But if the cause of more murders in Philadelphia is the lack of yet more gun control, why isn't murder increasing in the rest of Pennsylvania? Pittsburgh saw just a 7 percent increase. Why haven't murder rates gone up in the rest of the country? Should Phoenix, the city closest in size to Philadelphia, claim that its murder rate remained virtually unchanged for the last five years because of the supposed lack of new gun control? How should Dallas explain its 24 percent drop in murder?

Please, stop.

The Mayor of Philadelphia is much too busy for all these pestering details.

He's got his new iPhone to attend to, after all.

[pnh102]

When Rendell was mayor of Philadelphia (right before John Street), the city was actually quite nice and safe. John Street let the place go to hell, and everyone who voted against him moved out.

[Dick Bachert]

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Wish the government would just repeal the Second Amendment and confiscate all the guns because you believe sensible people shouldn't suffer because of some idiotic notion about some antiquated “right?”

While we can't take the guns away from the people, we CAN take the people (or at least SOME of them) away from their guns.

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[Dick Bachert]

WHY THEY WANT OUR GUNS!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j73SsNFgBO4

[HOTTIEBOY]

PROBLEM: There is a giant asteroid on a trajectory headed straight for earth to wipe out all mankind.

SOLUTION: Pass some laws forbidding asteroids from hitting earth. Set up press conference to discuss your own hard stance on asteroids and pat yourself on the back. Get in limousine and take a private jet to Aruba for vacation as a reward for a job well done.

[Law is not justice but process]

THAT was in the Phila. Inquirer?

Excuse me, but I have to get my Belgian Browning and go outside to watch for flying pigs. Surely there will be a pig pickin’ tonight!

[kidao35]

Phila has slid in the sh*tter since Street took office. I can tell by the type of people and the amount of litter laying around in previously nice areas. It used to be confined to parts in the North around old 611 and the West, but now its creeping up along Rt. 1 into the Northeast. My inlaws old neighborhood in Olney is turning into a hell-hole.

Street has told the cops and judges to keep off the blacks, regardless of what they do.

[twigs]

When Rendell was mayor, we had an excellent chief of police. Now we don’t. He is not getting the job done; I don’t know how he keeps his job.

[HOTTIEBOY]

How should Dallas explain its 24 percent drop in murder?

Very simple.
Capital Punishment.

[new cruelty]

Hard to believe, but its true. Not that it will amount to much. If anything, the mayor, police commissioner and district attorney will probably cast themselves as the victims and issue some sort of rebuttal, dimissing this editorial as right-wing propaganda, and the exact reason why the city must seize all guns in order to save lives. That will be enough to sate the masses and then everything will be right (or left) with their world.

[samtheman]

Exactly.

Death penalty for murder is the way to stop murder.

Gun control is the way to abrogate the 2nd amendment.

[Clam Digger]

Capital punishment may not be a deterrent, but it sure cuts down on the recidivism rate.

[new cruelty]

sylvester and streety must be good chums.

[PissAndVinegar]

[hophead]

Bla bla bla, yadda yadda yadda, bla bla bla.

[HOTTIEBOY]

But political correctness! political correctness!!!

Street has told the cops and judges to keep off the blacks, regardless of what they do.

Time and time again, thats what it boils down to. shhhh. we are not supposed to talk about it. Just let it happen.

Sounds like your mayor has gotten some lessons in leadership from Ray Nagin.

[twigs]

You could be right. I don’t know anything about the politics of that relationship.

[Thermalseeker]

Very simple. Capital Punishment.

"A lot of states are abolishing the death penalty. My state is putting in an express lane..." Ron White-

[Condor51]

Philly is more dangerous than Baghdad, it’s truly a ‘quagmire’. We should pull out now and let the local ‘insurgents’ fight it out amongst themselves.

[Plains Drifter]

Amen to your post.

[new cruelty]

I once heard the mayor tell a group of 14 year old boys that the problem with gun violence will not change until THEY decide it is time to make a change. I was surprised to hear those words come out of his mouth. The funny thing about it was that he looked both ways and covered a side of his mouth as if to jokingly make sure no one else heard him say it. Unimpressed, the boys were more concerned about when their youth program was going to get computers.

[NY.SS-Bar9]

THAT was in the Phila. Inquirer?

By John Lott and Maxim Lott

My initial reaction too. Until I looked at the byline. Must have hurt to press the "Enter" key on that one. :o

[subterfuge]

Well in Orlando, where I live, the murder rate has skyrocketed, due in large part to light sentences for repeat offenders. We’re averaging about a murder every day and a half, but the media has stopped reporting on the total numbers here. It’s a tourist destination!

There was a shootout downtown again last night. A couple of weeks ago there was a shootout in broad daylight and a 14 yo innocent bystander got shot.

About the same time a 14 yo girl led police on a high speed chase in a stolen car. It was her SIXTH time getting caught stealing a car.

[Barb4Bush]

You’re right. I’m not an Ed Rendell fan. I never voted for him when I lived in Philadelphia but the city made a huge improvement when he came in after Wilson Goode. I moved to New Jersey while Rendell was Mayor but still went into the city quite frequently. I rarely go into Philadelphia now. It is a cesspool of crime and dirt and there is nowhere in the city that feels safe anymore. I never see any Police on the streets of Center City, even in cars. The tax base of the city has left for the suburbs and I really think the city’s demise is imminent. I still have a few relatives that are living in Philadelphia but I don’t think they’ll be able to stick the high taxes and high crime rate much longer.

[paul51]

BUMP

[subterfuge]

Street has told the cops and judges to keep off the blacks, regardless of what they do. Time and time again, thats what it boils down to. shhhh. we are not supposed to talk about it. Just let it happen.

The Crime-Stopping-Business doesn't make any money off of gang bangers and "poor" repeat offenders.

[new cruelty]

Well in Orlando, where I live, the murder rate has skyrocketed, due in large part to light sentences for repeat offenders.

Sounds like they got a mickey mouse operation over there.

[abseaman]

I may be wrong, but I think a lot, or most of the New Orleans “thugs” were forced out of Dallas.

I think the drop of 24% just takes the rate back to normal.
Again I could be wrong.

[HOTTIEBOY]

Did a pretty, upperclass, cheerleader type white girl get out of the car when she was caught?

I think its a small percentage of scum doing the crime. They just keep doing it over and over. Why should they stop? There are no consequences.

[Born to Conserve]

Philadelphia is run by ghetto trash and lawyers. To hell with the Mexican border fence — we need a fence around Philadelphia.

[dynachrome]

Good post!

[subterfuge]

Yeah, I think it was a white girl, but not sure about the upperclass part.

It is a small percentage doing the crimes. Heck, we’ve had two cops get shot in shootouts here this year. Both times the orange county sheriff said now he’s “really going to get tough on crime and no more mr. nice guy.”

A friend of mine got shot in his front yard in a drive by. Cops show up and go through their list of who got out of jail recently and sure enough, a known banger type got out just a couple days before and his address listed was only a few blocks away. They picked the perp up in less than an hour and he confessed, saying he actually “meant to shoot someone else” and that it was a case of mistaken identity. He was sentenced to two years for that, out in less, and robbed a bank 2 weeks after getting out.

[JZelle]

You forgot the concert.

[Clemenza]

Well in Orlando, where I live, the murder rate has skyrocketed, due in large part to light sentences for repeat offenders. We’re averaging about a murder every day and a half, but the media has stopped reporting on the total numbers here. It’s a tourist destination! At the risk of being politically incorrect, hasn't Orlando experience a large migration of folks from Puerto Rico? If so, it's the Bronx in the 1960s all over again!

[subterfuge]

Orlando has a huge immigrant population and they list of countries they come from is long. Mainly, Guatamalan, Mexican, Brazilian, Ecuadoran, Chile and other south americans.

[Fishrrman]

The tax base of the city has left for the suburbs and I really think the city's demise is imminent. I still have a few relatives that are living in Philadelphia but I don't think they'll be able to stick the high taxes and high crime rate much longer.

Philadelphia: soon-to-be Detroit on the Northeast Corridor.

Reading some of the previous posts, this sounds like New York during the Dinkins era, and before Giulianni. I was there.

- John

[Clemenza]

Interesting. I did know that Orlando and Kissimmee had become very heavily Hispanic, particularly due to the large influx of folks from PR. Many of the underclass Nuyoricans have been moving down there as well, bringing their gangs with them.

[RockinRight]

Local politicians say they know the source of the problem: the lack of gun control.

Um...no, they DON'T know the source of the problem. The real source of the problem:

Philadelphia is filled with murdering thugs. THAT is the problem. The best solution is just to shoot every one of the bastards in self-defense.

[Rummyfan]

This reminds me there’s a gun show in my neighborhood next weekend. I really want an HK USP. Should I treat myself?

[Malacoda]

Olney was a borderline hellhole when I went to La Salle, back in the early ‘90s.

[new cruelty]

LOL. More power to you!

[RockinRight]

I always look at these high-murder rate cities and wonder “won’t the criminals eventually just kill each other off?”

[Malacoda]

The “Stop Snitchin’” campaign is doing WONDERS for this, too...

[new cruelty]

I haven’t seen a lot about that lately. But I imagine that you are right.

[wastedyears]

Are the firearms laws in PA very strict? If not, civilians better take up arms and protect themselves.

Militia anyone?

[Do Be]

Your post #5 is impressive.

Thanks for being here.

[RockinRight]

It’s absolutely disgusting. I’ve read and heard about this “Stop Snitchin” crap. What the f*** is wrong with these people?

[chiefqc]

But He’s Black nothing else matters I suppose.