We've had gangs in America for a long time...
...unfortunately our government has lost sight of the proper use of good rope.
Posted on 07/18/2007 7:06:11 AM PDT by Cat loving Texan
Report: Gang Suppression Doesn't Work
By ANDREW GLAZER Associated Press Writer
LOS ANGELES — Anti-gang legislation and police crackdowns are failing so badly that they are strengthening the criminal organizations and making U.S. cities more dangerous, according to a report being released Wednesday.
Mass arrests, stiff prison sentences often served with other gang members and other strategies that focus on law enforcement rather than intervention actually strengthen gang ties and further marginalize angry young men, according to the Justice Policy Institute, a Washington, D.C., think tank that advocates alternatives to incarceration.
"We're talking about 12-, 13-, 14-, 15-year-olds whose involvement in gangs is likely to be ephemeral unless they are pulled off the street and put in prison, where they will come out with much stronger gang allegiances," said Judith Greene, co-author of "Gang Wars: The Failure of Enforcement Tactics and the Need for Effective Public Safety Strategies."
The report is based on interviews and analysis of hundreds of pages of previously published statistics and reports. And though it is valid and accurate, the ideas raised in it are not new, said Arthur Lurigio, a psychologist and criminal justice professor at Loyola University of Chicago.
"These approaches, although they sound novel, are just old wine in new bottles," he said. "Gang crime and violence in poor urban neighborhoods have been a problem since the latter parts of the 19th century."
Lurigio, other academics and gang intervention workers have echoed elements of the report that found gangs need to be viewed as a symptom of other problems in poor communities, such as violence, teen pregnancy, drug abuse and unemployment.
The report says Los Angeles and Chicago are losing the war on gangs because they focus on law enforcement and are short on intervention.
It cites a report this year by civil rights attorney Connie Rice, who was hired by Los Angeles to evaluate its failing anti-gang programs. Her report called for an initiative to provide jobs and recreational programs in impoverished neighborhoods.
Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa and Police Chief William Bratton both commended Rice's report. But in February, they unveiled a strategy that focused on targeting the city's worst gangs with arrests and civil injunctions that prohibit known gang members from associating with one another in public. Rice describes the city's policy on arresting the city's estimated 39,000 gang members as "stuck on stupid."
Wes McBride, executive director of the California Gang Investigators Association, dismissed the findings of the report, which he said was written by "thug-huggers." The investigators association is a professional organization for police officers.
"Are they saying we can't put a thief in jail, we can't put a murderer in jail, that we should spank them, put a diaper on them, pat them on the bottom, hug them and let them go?" McBride said. "It's obviously a think tank report, and they didn't leave their ivory tower and spend any time on the streets."
"Gang Wars" also criticizes politicians who overstate the threat of criminal gangs and seek tougher sentences.
Greene specifically criticized a bill introduced by Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, that would make it illegal to be a member of a criminal gang and would make it easier to prosecute some minors as adults.
But Feinstein spokesman Scott Gerber said the bill also calls for spending more than $400 million on gang prevention and intervention programs, which he said would be the largest single investment of its kind.
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Associated Press writer Dan Strumpf in Chicago contributed to this report.
___
On the Net:
http://www.justicepolicy.org/
Build the fence -— or is it too late ???
It is NEVER too late to build the fence and purchase the Dobermans or place the landmines. And, I would a lot rather pay for bigger prisons than pay for police to chase these gangs in the street. Put them in prison for so long that when they come out they are physically incapable of any gang-related activities and have lost any influence they may have had in the street because they have been kept from any communication with said street for so many years.
Once again we have an article that wants to claim that fighting against the enemies of a peaceful American society *only* creates more enemies. When will these goofy articles ever end?
How about we organize a citizens committee? It worked in the past, why not now?
Nothing a little love and cream-puffs won’t fix.
Oh no, we can’t lengthen their sentence, that would be cruel. We must try to understand them and why they belong to gangs. The only answer is to put more money into social programs. Doesn’t that sound like the typical answer you would get from a liberal do-gooder?
Just another gift to American society from our highly respectable Washington government....
How about a PPV “Prison Gang Fight” channel? It could be called “American Loser”. The show would make multi-millions, there’s no doubt about it.
“When will these goofy articles ever end?”
After a revolution.
“Her report called for an initiative to provide jobs and recreational programs in impoverished neighborhoods.”
.....in other words make work programs and midnight basketball
Because said committees usually involved firearms, ropes, and lampposts. The police today would probably admonish the citizenry to leave police work to the police.
Los Angeles is grossly underpoliced. They need more officers per capita and to station them in south central LA. Of course no officer in his right mind wants that duty. The price may need to go up. So be it.
Work programs would be fine. Make the inmates break rocks or mine iridium for 20 years, instead of letting them "strengthen their gang ties" by giving them a bunch of free time in the prison weigh room or on the prison basketball court.
>>the answer to the problem is simple. Lengthen the sentance.
Summary execution would also prevent recividism.
1. Deport illegals
2. Make gang membership itself a crime, punishable under RICO statutes
3. Reduce appeals in death penalty cases, and hang gang members convicted of murder in public
and lastly ...
4. End the ridiculous War on Some Drugs that creates the incentive for gang membership to begin with
Give up! Retreat! Fighting back only makes them stronger! Ahhhhh!
Right. If they get buff turning big rocks into little rocks it’s one thing, but I hate saying someone is built like he just got out of prison.
When Michigan got serious about putting people into prison, the crime rate in Detroit went down.
As it turns out, those “angry young men” usually go back to gangs and crime if let out before age 30, but if they’re let out after age 30, they tend to do much better (maybe its because their homies are all dead?).
Solution — put them in jail until age 30.
“Los Angeles is grossly underpoliced. They need more officers per capita and to station them in south central LA. Of course no officer in his right mind wants that duty. The price may need to go up. So be it.”
The reason why cops don’t want that duty is that when they arrest someone, they return to the street about as quickly as the paperwork is done.
If the cops knew that a good, clean bust meant that the perp was going away for a while, the morale (and crime rates?) would improve dramatically.
My brother is a retired LAPD officer (after 17 years he took a medical after being shot in the line of duty a second time) so I have some clue as to the situation in LA. And yes, what happens after matters. It is also true that sheer numbers matter. Right now LA has half the police per capital that NY does.
If not an increase in the sentence, how about cops finding the flimsiest excuse to shoot them...?
Well, this is a longshot, but: How about stop paying women to have kids out of wedlock? No welfare for immigrants or unmarrieds.
Steven Sondheim nailed this in the lyrics of West Side Story back in the Fifties.
RIFF (sings)
Dear kindly Sergeant Krupke,
Ya gotta understand—
It’s just our bringin’ upke
That gets us outta hand.
Our mothers all are junkies,
Our fathers all are drunks.
Golly Moses — natcherly we’re punks.
ALL
Gee, Officer Krupke, we’re very upset;
We never had the love that every
Child oughta get.
We ain’t no delinquents,
We’re misunderstood.
Deep down inside us there is good!
RIFF
There is good!
ALL
There is good, there is good,
There is untapped good.
Like inside, the worse of us is good.
TIGER (imitating Krupke)
That’s a touchin’ good story.
RIFF
Lemme tell it to the world!
TIGER (imitating Krupke)
Just tell it to the Judge.
RIFF (**to Snowboy)
Dear kindly Judge, your Honor,
My parents treat me rough.
With all their marijuana,
They won’t give me a puff.
They didn’t wanna have me,
But somehow I was had.
Leapin’ lizards —that’s what I’m so bad!
SNOWBOY (imitating a Judge)
Right!
Officer Krupke, you’re really a square;
This boy don’t need a judge, he
Needs a analysis’s care!
It’s just his neurosis that oughta be curbed—
**He’s psychologically disturbed.
RIFF
I’m disturbed!
ALL
We’re disturbed, we’re disturbed,
We’re the most disturbed,
Like we’re psychologically disturbed.
SNOWBOY (still acting part of Judge)(spoken)
Hear ye, Her ye! In the opinion
Of this court, this child is
Depraved on account he ain’t had a normal home.
RIFF (spoken)
Hey, I’m depraved on account I’m deprived!
SNOWBOY (as judge - spoken)
So take him to a headshrinker.
RIFF (to Action)(sings)
My Daddy beats my Mommy,
My Mommy clobbers me,
My Grandpa is a Commie,
My Grandma pushes tea.
My sister wears a mustache,
My brother wears a dress.
Goodness Gracious, that’s why I’m a mess!
ACTION (as psychiatrist)
Yes!
Officer Krupke, he shouldn’t be here.
This boy don’t need a couch, he needs
A useful career.
Society’s played him a terrible trick,
And sociologically he’s sick!
RIFF
I am sick!
ALL
We are sick, we are sick,
We are sick sick sick
Like we’re sociologically sick!
ACTION (speaks as psychiatrist)
In my opinion, this child does not need
To have his head shrunk at all.
Juvenile delinquency is purely a
Social disease.
RIFF (spoken)
Hey, I got a social disease!
ACTION (spoken as psychiatrist)
So take him to a social worker!
RIFF (to ARAB)(sings)
Dear kindly social worker,
They tell me get a job,
Like be a soda-jerker,
Which means like be a slob.
It’s not I’m anti-social,
I’m only anti-work.
Gloryosky, that’s why I’m a jerk!
ARAB (as social worker)
Eek!
Officer Krupke, you’ve done it again.
This boy don’t need a job, he needs a
Year in the pen.
It ain’t just a question of misunderstood;
Deep down inside him, he’s no good!
RIFF
I’m no good!
ALL
We’re no good, we’re no good,
We’re no earthly good,
Like the best of us is no damn good!
SNOWBOY
The trouble is he’s lazy.
JOYBOY
The trouble is he drinks
BABY JOHN
The trouble is he’s crazy.
ARAB
The trouble is he stinks,
MOUTHPIECE
The trouble is he’s growing.
ACTION
The trouble is he’s grown!
ALL
Krupke, we got troubles of our own!
Gee, Officer Krupke,
We’re down on our knees.
‘Cause no one wants a fella with
A social disease.
Gee, Officer Krupke,
What are we to do?
Gee, Officer Krupke —
Krup you!
Suspend posse comitatus,send in the marines, and put them down like dogs... case closed.
Why we let our neighborhooods be terrorized is beyond me.
“Right now LA has half the police per capital that NY does.”
I assume you mean NYC, not the State of NY?
We’ve got tons of unemployed people in Michigan. Perhaps LA should make some of us into cops?
“send in the marines...”
My neighbor is a special forces kinda guy... you know, the one whose friends fly those black helicopters?
He says that a few of his buddies, tasked to drug crackdowns, would probably make a huge difference impact on the drug dealers.
Our liberal friends are full of “amazing facts”. Who would have thought that enforcing the law creates crime?? I’m sure a little more “midnight basketball” will fix everything right up. The poor deprived darlings.
Wait a minute. 12 year olds don’t go to prison. Juvenile detention is usually short and far from prison.
Also, this belongs in the same logic as we are creating terrorist by killing terrorists in the Middle East.
I think a 12 year old who is evil enough to kill another kid (often an innocent one) in cold blood is not going to be swayed by “job or recreational programs.” I have to wonder if these people really seriously believe the bull they have been peddling for all these decades. How many trillions have already been spent? The only solution is to lock them up but in too many cases that does not happen.
Precisely why I like the idea.
Yep.
Turn off the think tanks. They’re just a ocuple of guys and girls who can write well.
Nothing more.
I think you’re on to something... maybe the humiliation and shame would be enough for them rethink about being in a gang...
exactly.
These “gangs” are nothing more than domestic terrorists, we should be employing the same tactics against them as we do all other terrorists.
It is unfathonable that we have neighborhoods where law abiding citizens must live in fear and locked away due to these folks.
Send the Marines into these neighborhoods and put them down like the dogs they are.
But, but, but. . .I thought the liberals were all out there helping the poor and disadvantaged.
Oh, that's right, I forgot. They want to pick YOUR pocket through taxes so the government can do all the work.
::::rolls eyes::::
Make work programs [$10/hr]
Dealing crack and expanding your customer base by killing your competition [$5000+/day].
Midnight B-Ball [$0].
Simple economics to me.
If the reason why people join gangs is never addressed(as it seems most people here don’t want to), then the problem will never go away. There are reasons why the gang problem exploded when it did - breakdown of the family unit and the lack of low-skill manufacturing jobs are the major two. If anyone really cares about the problem and would like to learn about its origin, I suggest a documentary that was produced about a year ago called “Bastards of The Party”.
I agree...go to the root cause.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
The Rebellious Son
18 “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and who, when they have chastened him, will not heed them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city, to the gate of his city. 20 And they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ 21 Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.
Reiterating from post #40:
Dealing crack and expanding your customer base by killing your competition [$5000+/day].
There it is, in a nutshell. Take the 'dirty money' incentive away, and gangs will be much easier to control. Simple.
I know an FBI agent who says the worst of the worst gangs are Mexican. He also says that those little mom and pop Mexican restaurants are the conduit for drugs coming into the county.
And I hate to tell you but he also says we are losing the war on drugs because of our porous southern border.
Suspend posse comitatus,send in the marines, and put them down like dogs... case closed.We have a winner.
This is a public service announcement brought to you by your local gang - er, I mean underprivileged youth association.
Mankind has lots of desires. The desire to murder a rival. The desire to take something that doesn't belong to them. The desire to force sexual attentions on someone who may not want them. Just as with taking drugs, not all humans desire these things, but some do.
I'm not in favor of making things legal just because people want to do them.
There it is, in a nutshell. Take the 'dirty money' incentive away, and gangs will be much easier to control.
That makes about as much sense as thinking that giving them a legitimate job will make kids not want to be in gangs.
Like the zoot suit days : )
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