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To: ovrtaxt; ravingnutter
I glanced through some of them, but I have been pretty busy. May come back over the week-end.

However, I noticed one thing that may be of great importance. A lot of people started out with conspiracy theories. This is probably wrong, and it is definitely the wrong way to go about it. Again to compare with the EU, there were a few people (Monnet, Salter etc) who you could call conspirators (very successful too), but quite early on they lost the power over the “project”. It was driven by mainstream politicians who just did not understand where it would lead.

Who cares that the Rome declaration of 1957 talked about “ever closer union”? Just words, words, but in real politics things like lower customs, “industrial politics” etc, that’s the meat and potatoe of the politics. Howeer, the path had been set, and with further unenlightened decisions the rot set in - but only much later did it have an effect on most people. By then too many politicians and too much prestige had been involved......and to put it frnakly, even today most politicians, let alone ordinary people, understand exactly what power the EU wields.

Unfortunately, those few who understood where the Coal and Steel Union, the EEC etc would lead, just overstated their case early on. The few sane voices, like the British parliamentarian Enoch Powell was ostracized because of his views on immigration. (Later developments have shown that he was more right than wrong on that question as well.)

Try to analyze the consequences (economical, legal, constitutional) of a North American Union rather than ascribing them to some evil intent.

And remember just because it is not a conspiracy it may still be very bad politics. And vice versa, bad politics help put bad people in power.

34 posted on 07/20/2007 4:58:23 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: ScaniaBoy; ravingnutter

Thanks for that reasonable view. I do believe that wild-eyed hype doesn’t help anyone, but neither does an assumption of innocence.

These are politicians after all, they are addicted to power over other people, and the use of other people’s money. Our founders knew this very well. A guarded suspicion is appropriate.

I don’t trust this government, the libs or the ‘conservatives’, any more. I learned everything I need to know with this last foray into amnesty.


43 posted on 07/20/2007 7:37:14 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (The FairTax and the North American Union are mutually exclusive.)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Any change that sees stong defenders of the West get short shrift in governing bodies, is a terrible change. Whether it be England being absorbed in the EU collective or the US into an AU situation, it silences objections or aspirations of clear thinking states.

Think of our relations with just about alll our neighbors in the North, Central and South America. Do we really want to dilute our will to (let’s say) one or two votes out of thirty to fifty?

How would we fight terrorism under these constraints? The absorbtion of England or the US into a large governing body without individual will would be a suicidal move.

Economics is not the most important thing in the world. Survival and free reign to implement military action when necessary without getting permission is an absolute, never to be bargained away.

Are such moves as the EU or the AU a conspiracy? Let’s say they are not (being overly charitable). Even without there being a conspiracy the implementation would be just as destructive to self determination.

Not just no, HELL NO to the EU and most certainly an AU. No way, not now not ever! EVER!!!!


48 posted on 07/20/2007 7:54:44 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Victory will never be achieved while defining Conservatism downward, and forsaking it's heritage.)
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