Skip to comments.The Wizard of the Saddle
Posted on 07/20/2007 6:24:09 PM PDT by SuzyQ2
Forrest's soldiers loved him. His fellow generals admired him. His enemies were terrified at the mere mention of his name. Gen. Robert E. Lee said of his finest subordinate commanders, the most remarkable was one he "had never met" Forrest. And U.S. and foreign military officers alike have studied Forrests campaigns over the decades since the end of the war. It has even been speculated that some aspects of the German Blitzkrieg were patterned after some of Forrest's operations.
(Excerpt) Read more at tank.nationalreview.com ...
1. Slave trader
2. Democrat. (Convention delegate in 1876)
3. Killer. Committed civil war atrocities.
4. KKK Member. Was responsible for spreading the orginization thoughout ths south.
Tactical genius, moral monster
And the man who should have been second in command of Confederate forces after Lee.
We could use a few more of him. Moral purity is not possible. Are you willing to lose in order to find a general that passes muster with you, or the ACLU?
I can forgive him for 1, 3 & 4...
My thought on the matter is that those who wish to put down those like Forrest and Robert E. Lee these many years after the fact would have never dared to speak such things to those men's faces...
Right. Give me Lee, Grant, Forrest, and Sherman. Stack bodies. Kill those whose only goal is to destroy Western Civilization. They are not interested in negotiation. Kill them to protect our country and our children. Kill them.
I beseech thee all to reconsider.
Mr. Forrest was an enemy to the Republic, to the principles of equality and freedom as expressed in the constitution and affirmed by Lincoln in the Cooper Union speech and all Republican acts through the war, do not think that confederate ideology is the future of conservative thought in America in the 21st century.
I think a young Robert Byrd rode with him.
Long Live Sherman!
I'm pretty sure that the direct descendants of the Virginians who pretty much started this country didn't die at The Angle because they were confused about what the American Republic was...
At the very least Forrest defended the states rights arguments of the Confederacy. Whether you agree with that or not in the context of our Civil War, whose side do you believe Forrest would be on today? Can we use fighting men like him in the defense of our civilization? In fighting these bastards, do you believe we are talking about political differences or life and death? Decide, because your life depends on it.
“The firstest, with the mostest.”
Funny part is he rarely had the “mostest”, but he made up for it with audacity just like R.E. Lee.
This isn't about Wm T Sherman.
In fact, the number of enemy he killed in close combat exceeded the number horses he had shot out from underneath him by one (most likely 31 enemy killed and 30 horses shot) leading him in later life to claim that he was “one up”.
Yeah, yeah, and George Washington as an enemy to the Crown and a slave owner as well.
The Crown was granting emancipation to slaves who would fight for the King. You neo-yankee moralizers grow very quiet when challenged to apply your “tests” to him. Better get out your Redcoat and pledge allegiance to King George III.
This alleged quote is nothing more than revisionist propaganda. Forrest did not speak this way. What he actually said was "get there first with the most men".
Yes, but he should have.
It’s just like ‘Play it again, Sam’ is never spoken in Casablanca. But it should have been..
Forrest was very capable but the Army of Virginia and the Shenandoah valley were the heart of the Confederacy and that's where the Civil War was fought and lost by them.
My other candidate would be Gregg who ran JEB Stuart out of Gettysburg.
I speak as a Texan. Obviously I had someone else write this post for me.
You would profit from studying the words actually spoken by General Forrest himself on the subject of race relations rather than puking up the consensus feelings of contemporary race pimps.
Start with the speech given by General Forrest at the 1875 convention of the Pole Bearers, the forerunner of the NAACP.
“War means fighting. And fighting means killing.”
- Nathan Bedford Forrest
So much for confederate gallantry.
Forrest was in constant conflict with superiors and subordinates and was a raider, mainly. He was demoted many times, ordered the massacre of all the Black prisoners at Fort Pillow.
If he hadn't paid for his mounted battalion with his own money from slave trading, he likely would have never had a command.
And Mr. Sherman was an enemy to the Confederacy. Your point?
...do not think that confederate ideology is the future of conservative thought in America in the 21st century.
The Confederate constitution, while closely resembling the U.S. version, contained certain changes to which 21st-century conservatives might be favorably disposed: term limits; a congressional super-majority requirement to pass spending or taxation bills; a requirement that the title of each legislative bill must accurately describe its contents; no riders were allowed to be attached to a bill. And acknowledgment of God in the Preamble.
If a Fort Pillow massacre occurred, there is no objective evidence that General Forrest ordered it.
In fact, the number of enemy he killed in close combat exceeded the number horses he had shot out from underneath him by one (most likely 31 enemy killed and 30 horses shot) leading him in later life to claim that he was one up.
Those numbers are from my memory of what I have read about him,,,It’s a very interesting read about his life,,,
That was one mean SOB !! His war service would make a
And,,,Yes he went through lots of horses,,,
“Pitch Into Them!” was one of his mottos...
In Mid-August, Forrest's command was trapped at Oxford, Mississippi, by a vastly superior Union Army commanded by General A. J. Smith. Forrest had not fully recovered from his most recent disabling wound (to his foot of all places) and knew that he could not withstand Smith's pressure for more than a few days. What choice did Forrest have?
He attacked Memphis, Tennessee
Forrest hand picked 2,000 troops for their endurance as well as for their knowledge of the city and sent them on a hell bent raid to Memphis. The primary goal of the raid was to cause Union General Washburn to believe that the city was under a serious siege and to recall General Smith's forces from Mississippi (collateral goals were to capture top Union officers and to free Confederate prisoners of war). The collateral goals were not achieved, but the primary objective was achieved in spades.
General Washburn was headquartered in the Gayso Hotel; a troop under the command of General Forrest's little brother William was sent to secure the hotel and search for the general. While most of the men dismounted and approached the hotel on foot, William Forrest burst through the front door and charged upstairs...on horseback.
General Washburn was convinced that a full scale invasion was under way and immediately recalled General Smith's forces to protect the city (Forrest had instructed his troops not to cut the telegraph line connecting Washburn to Smith).
it’s so discouraging to see what passes for conservatism today
“ordered the massacre of all the Black prisoners at Fort Pillow”
that entire reply demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge on the subject you are ranting about
Forrest shot a man who stabbed him...what would you do?
help him guide the knife?
Forrest was never demoted. He had his command changed from under him for many reasons mostly strategic which had little to do with him except when David and SD Lee sent him west after Bragg’s last debacle.
There is absolutely no evidence that Forrest ordered the massacre of black (and local Tennessean Unionist with them) during that fight...in fact, there is Federal testimony to the contrary. The Union commander held a drunken command which refused to submit to overwhelming force, violated repeated truce flags and then made the tactical blunder of running into a hole (kind like the Crater Yankees) and got shot to pieces by the river where Forrest himself stopped it. It was a rout no doubt but the less than capable Federal leadership there brought it on himself.
He enlisted as a private and did indeed supply many forces in Memphis and North Mississippi with arms smuggled in from Kentucky and the old Midwest of Southern Indiana and Illinois at the outbreak of the war. Forrest was a very large landowner and cotton trader and known to be a reasonable man with his slaves. His records have been scoured and no Simon Legree was he. His slaves spoke warmly of him and his funeral was attended by more blacks than whites.
He helped form the original Klan to combat Union occupation and carpet baggers and the disenfranchisement of whites and the putting in office of sometimes illiterate blacks who were manipulated by corrupt Yankee administrators.
and I don’t blame him, and he left when they did and he saw the organization had become more than he intended
further, he gave a series of speeches about reconciliation with both the north and blacks...particularly with blacks
and he knew not to wage a guerrilla war because he (and other Southerners) viewed a victory at that cost as dishonorable
and he fought many Yankee forces much larger than his and won about every time except Donleson (where he escaped) and Selma at the end.
he was hardly just a raider.
any decent neo-abolitionist today should be grateful he did not have large forces under his command....which he did not because he was not a Pointer and had been born common
and btw....we are not re fighting the war...it’s over...if you don’t like our history then go find another thread where race baiters can breast beat till the cows come round...or try wideawakes...plenty of PC RINOs there
It appears that a Yankee officer at the battle disagreed with the claim that there was a massacre:
“The report of Lieutenant Daniel Van Horn, Sixth U. S. Colored Heavy Artillery confirmed this in which he reported: “There never was a surrender of the fort, both officers and men declaring they never would surrender or ask for quarter.”
I think you need to learn more about him. He was a very complex person with little education. For instance, he used to tell the slaves that he was selling to “go find their future owners.” The slaves would go out and find out from other slaves who were the best masters and come back and tell Forest who they were. Forest would then, negotiate a agreeable price. The slaves got resonable owners, the owners got slaves that would not seek freedon, and Forest got a profit with little work. In fact some of his slaves staid with him after the civil war, after they were freed. He was not a saint, but he wasn’t evil either-a very unusual man. That he was “as hard as wood pecker lips” would be an understatement. There are several very good books about him.
Forrest was in constant conflict mainly with Braxton Bragg. He got along fine with Dick Taylor.
Oh, and your reading of the Fort Pillow incident is, shall we say, selective and incomplete.
Very nice post, wardaddy.
You’re right...we aren’t re-fighting the war.
But, revisionist history, and innocent mistakes,
by some needs to be countered with the facts.
I don’t have anything else to add except a “bump”...
and a “nice to see you.” ;o)
By the convention of trained military officers, close quarter combat was conducted with sabers; soldiers killed in combat would have suffered saber cuts while soldiers who were executed would have revealed powder burns.
The problem is: General Forrest ignored convention; his troops at Fort Pillow were armed with Navy Colts, not sabers. Anyone Union soldier killed in close combat at Fort Pillow would have had powder burns.
General Washburn was headquartered in the Gayso Hotel; a troop under the command of General Forrest’s little brother William was sent to secure the hotel and search for the general. While most of the men dismounted and approached the hotel on foot, William Forrest burst through the front door and charged upstairs...on horseback.
LOL,,,I think this was the “Spanked On The Rump” with the
flat-side of his saber story I read of,,,been too long,,,
LOL,,,We could all learn something from this bunch,,,
North or South...;0)
General Washburn escaped from the hotel in the 1864 version of his underpants. To compound the general’s terror, William Forrest gathered up Washburn’s uniform and took it as a trophy.
Total bullcrap, but that smear in the northern papers was the best the union forces could do to diminish Forrest, since they could never catch nor defeat him. So if you can't catch or defeat him, you create a false atrocity story about him. Par for the course. We understand.
General Washburn escaped from the hotel in the 1864 version of his underpants. To compound the generals terror, William Forrest gathered up Washburns uniform and took it as a trophy.
LOL,,,I guess we would call the General a “terrorist” today,
Because he did just that,,,My true feelings ??,,,,,,,,,,,,
I wouldn’t trade the “Brothers” I fought with in the Nam’
For the General,,,Hard Words ??,,,
Blood is Thicker Than Water...:0)...Fo’Sho...
Now as then, the yankees could never catch or beat Forrest, so all they could (and can now) do is try to smear him with blood libels.
in my haste and going simply from memory...I failed to correct another point
Bedford stabbed Gould with his penknife after Gould shot him in a dispute
Gould then died in Forrest’s care begging forgiveness and it was later said that was Forrest’s worst day of the war aside from holding his dead neck shot brother in his arms at the battle of Okalona south of Tupelo Miss in 1863
thanks....these weak minded lemmings aggravate me...they exemplify what is wrong with our notions today and why we can’t deal with any problem facing us
it must all be held up to the minority light first....
that trumps all...the truth, the will to prevail, who our real enemies are, who our real heroes are, where we came from, how to solve crime, how to boost cultural self esteem, medical care, taxation, fix schools, fight Islam, manage immigration....
all that and more is crippled by this absurd predisposition here to judge any action by the “prism of minority ..whther race, religion, gender, sexual preference and so forth”
it is a a national disease far far worse than the evils it claims to fight
A convention and BBQ was held by the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association at the fairgrounds of Memphis, five miles east of the city. An invitation to speak was conveyed to General Nathan Bedford Forrest, one of the city's most prominent citizens, and one of the foremost cavalry commanders in the late War Between the States. This was the first invitation granted to a white man to speak at this gathering. The invitation's purpose, one of the leaders said, was to extend peace, joy, and union, and following a brief welcoming address a Miss Lou Lewis, daughter of an officer of the Pole-Bearers, brought forward flowers and assurances that she conveyed them as a token of good will. After Miss Lewis handed him the flowers, General Forrest responded with a short speech that, in the contemporary pages of the Memphis Appeal, evinces Forrest's racial open-mindedness that seemed to have been growing in him.
Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. ( Immense applause and laughter.) I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man to depress none. (Applause.) I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand. (Prolonged applause.)
Whereupon N. B. Forrest again thanked Miss Lewis for the bouquet and then gave her a kiss on the cheek. Such a kiss was unheard of in the society of those days, in 1875, but it showed a token of respect and friendship between the general and the black community and did much to promote harmony among the citizens of Memphis.
lincoln was a TYRANT & DESTROYER of the Constitution. he & "wee willie klintoon" were "two of a kind". EITHER would have done ANYTHING to get ahead. NEITHER was decent/moral as men/POTUS. BOTH would have passed out White House recipes for cooking people, if 2% of the voters turned to cannibalism.
it's sad that you seem to believe & PARROT the SELF-righteous BILGE out of the most extreme LEFT "idiot fringe" of northeastern REVISIONIST academia.
MOST of those REVISIONIST, sanctimonious. ELITISTS wouldn't spit on you if you were aflame;furthermore they "laugh behind their hands" AT anyone, who is foolish enough to believe their KNOWING lies.
all those brave/honorable "Billy Yanks", who wore the blue, fought/bled/died for the OPPRESSORS.
like all to many modern Americans, they were DECEIVED by their "betters" who lied then/NOW.
"billy sherman", as i write these lines, has a permanent seat REALLY close to the fire.