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Fossil finds shake up dinosaur theories
The Mercury News ^ | July 19, 2007 | Betsy Mason

Posted on 07/22/2007 8:19:41 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger

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To: CottShop

This sums it up quite well:

“[[I am still waiting for an explanation for the 2.7K microwave background radiation from you.]]

You are? You’ll wait al ong long time then because I have absolutely no knowledge of that- and besides- you’ve already chosen the OPINION that you want- so no sense in me hunting down other opinions- after all- anyone that doesn’t agree with your OPINION is an idiot, remember?”

The fact that you don’t understand the scientific viewpoint, and are unwilling to understand it, just reinforces my entire argument. And I never called anybody an idiot - just ignorant - in the truest sense of the word - “lacking knowledge”. The fact that the 2.7K background radiation exists in nature has been proven to a scientific certainty. It is as certain as your existence sitting in that chair. It is not anybody’s opinion. It is the last echo of the Big Bang and was first predicted in 1948 - by SCIENCE - then proven in 1965 when an instrument capable of measuring the CMB became available. The 1978 Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to the discoverers, and rightly so. But the fact that you knew nothing of this proves that you are not qualified to judge scientific arguments. I don’t mean this in a derogatory way, but you are ignorant of science. Conversely, I am not ignorant on the subject of the bible, despite what desperate apologists/defenders have claimed in this thread. Now, just to make what I am saying crystal clear, someone can be a genius intellectually, but be ignorant at the same time. So I am not calling anyone a moron or idiot as you have cited. I am merely pointing out that they simply do not posses the requisite knowledge to support a cogent argument involving subjects which they know little or nothing about. If you want to read about the CMB, here’s a WIKI article that explains it in understandable terms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_background_radiation

Take a look, I’m sure God will forgive you for reading about science.

Remember, there are opinions, and there are facts. The two do not always coincide; but in science, they nearly always do (subject to the fallibility of scientists – being human they are not perfect. However, errors DO tend to be corrected over time as theories gain new data and are either proven or modified to fit what we observe). And I do acknowledge that there has been bad science in the past, and bad science now - the global warming debacle is a perfect example of bad science. However, one of the big differences between science and religion is that science is a self-correcting process; the peer-review mechanism provides a forum for open debate and the presentation of new evidence that will cause a theory to either be modified to fit the known facts, or thrown out and a new theory devised which has predictive value. I don’t think you realize how open science is. Everybody is not trying to PROVE your theory - everybody is trying to DISPROVE it. If evidence existed that disproved evolution, it would be accepted, and would almost certainly garner a Nobel prize. I’m sorry to disappoint you, but no such evidence has yet been found. If it were, it would cause an overnight global sensation.

[[It is very dangerous to surrender one’s will and reason to outdated dogma.]]
Oh really? Lol- oh, please, do tell me how? I’m anxiously awaiting hte wisdom on this one lol- The only thing that is ‘dangerous’ is when people do NOT surrender their iwll to God and ABUSE God’s word and do the Evil One’s will instead by abusing God’s word, and start CULTS Locke- God’s Chosen have NEVER doen anything ‘dangerous’ and that is fact- God’s Chosen have ALWAYS been the ones whom evil was done to- and that is FACT- If you want ot complain about unsaved people masquerading around as Christians and Abusing God’s word instead of OBEYING God, then by all means do so- but do NOT include the TRUE Christians in you little accusations.

Locke’s response:

The Muslim suicide bombers are a perfect example of this. So was the Spanish Inquisition, and the Nazi’s (who were Christians and committed genocide against God’s chosen people. Did God choose well?) Why are his Chosen People always so hated and reviled? Are you saying no Jewish person has ever done anything wrong in the history of the world? How about Julius & Ethel Rosenberg - who gave atomic secrets to the USSR? This gave the atheist commies the bomb – do you see anything wrong with that? Their actions could’ve helped to precipitate WWIII and ended Western Civilization forever. How is that not profoundly evil? Jews are, in the vast majority of cases, exemplary people, and I like them very much. One of my favorite heroes, Einstein, was a Jew. However, to make a blanket statement that no Jew has ever done anything wrong is just crazy – they have. David Berkowitz wasn’t a real nice guy, either. Why don’t you do a yahoo search on “jewish serial killers”? You’ll get lots of hits.

“The evidence is there to confirm His young earth- it’s just that you PREFERE not to accept that fact- that’s fine- that’s your opinion- but don’t go round calling people idiots for differing and for accepting counter evidences on issues that aren’t clear.”

There is no such evidence. Period. [sigh] And, once again, I never called anyone an idiot.


241 posted on 07/27/2007 10:52:16 AM PDT by Locke_2007 (Liberals are non-sentient life forms)
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To: vpintheak
Meanwhile, there has yet to be any proof that the Bible has been wrong on anything, end of story.

Really?

Gen. 17:1) – “Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless;

(Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”

(Exodus 6:2-3) – “God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD; and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty , but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”

(Exodus 24:9-11) – “Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.”

According to these verses Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Aaron, Nadab and Abihu all saw God.

Yet......

(Exodus 33:20) – “But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !"

(John 1:18) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”

(John 5:37) – “"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”

(John 6:46) - "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”

Either Moses and Abraham saw God or they didn't. Some verses say they did and some verses say they didn't.

They can't ALL be right.

242 posted on 07/27/2007 11:08:41 AM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Tokra

“They can’t ALL be right.”

Don’t worry. Cott will explain just EXACTLY why they are both right. Just wait. He is so intractable on the subject that I am beginning to think he’s just trolling me.


243 posted on 07/27/2007 11:17:17 AM PDT by Locke_2007 (Liberals are non-sentient life forms)
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To: editor-surveyor
" No, the 'phases' of which he speaks require the interplay of at least 3 bodies. What he doesn't seem to grasp is that changing the coordinate origin and rotation changes nothing else. Obviously he's never done any CAD drafting.

Nonsense. I know very well that there is a way to draw the orbit of Venus from a geocentric perspective.

It requires epicycles, however. If you draw this perspective you need to explain the law of gravity that causes planets to reverse direction periodically.

Science is utilitarian. It seeks not the TRUE explanation, but the most economical. There is a reason why astronomers from Kepler through Newton sought an equation for universal gravity, and wound up asserting that not everything orbits the earth.

There is no way for epicycles to be derived from simple laws of motion and gravity. If you can do it, show your math, and explain how you are smarter than Newton.

244 posted on 07/27/2007 11:43:14 AM PDT by js1138
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To: Tokra

Do yourself a favor, you won’t regret it. Go to Biblegateway.com and read the few verses before and after, and you will see how you are terribly wrong. Cutting and pasting from darwinist or athiest websites is wrong. I just checked a couple of the verses you posted there and discovered, when read in context, who the writer was speaking to.


245 posted on 07/27/2007 1:18:29 PM PDT by vpintheak (Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked. Prov. 25:26)
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To: js1138

You are spewing nonsense.

All coordinate systems are arbitrary. Just admit that you stuck your foot in it, and move on.


246 posted on 07/27/2007 3:17:40 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: Porterville

God didn’t create evolution. He makes that whole “creation” thing rather plain in the Bible.


247 posted on 07/27/2007 6:59:49 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: vpintheak
Cutting and pasting from darwinist or athiest websites is wrong.

Are you saying that science is wrong?

Or are you saying that science disagrees with your religious beliefs?

These are two entirely different propositions.

If you are saying that science disagrees with your religious beliefs, no problem. Believe what you want.

But if you are saying that science is wrong, you have to provide scientific evidence to support your claim (see tagline).

248 posted on 07/27/2007 7:03:15 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
Fits well with the Science of Evolution... God is great... thank God for his Biblical explanation of Evolutionary Science.... The Earth is not only scientifically proved to be 4.5 billion years of age... it is also works easily with biblical philosophy... Thank God!! Praise Jesus!! Evolution is King!!!
249 posted on 07/27/2007 8:46:54 PM PDT by Porterville (I'm an American. If you hate Americans, I hope our enemies destroy you. I will pray for my soul.)
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To: Coyoteman

Read again what I wrote. Every verse quoted was taken out of context, and not even the entire verse was quoted. That is what I was saying. I am also saying and will continue to say that us humans don’t know squat. Only a fool would say that we humans are smart, our science outstsanding, and we are right. Our history is rife with examples of how science of the day was wrong, and it will continue into the future until the end. It is ignorant, foolhardy, and quite pigheaded to think otherwise.


250 posted on 07/27/2007 11:18:45 PM PDT by vpintheak (Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked. Prov. 25:26)
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To: editor-surveyor
All coordinate systems are arbitrary. Just admit that you stuck your foot in it, and move on.

Then as a CAD guru, you will no doubt find it simple to produce a diagram of the orbit of Venus from a geocentric perspective, and no doubt find it simple to show how it is compatible with the Newton's laws ofmotion and the Hohmann transfer orbit.

251 posted on 07/28/2007 4:56:45 AM PDT by js1138
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To: Eaker

In a perfect, uninfluenced by agenda, world - your analogy would be good. But unfortunately, far too many “scientists” start with an assumption (agenda), and the set out to find “evidence” that supports that agenda/assumption.

So a better analogy would be if you had scattered a can full of dried beans on your property - and a scientist, who wanted to prove that beans were native to your area came by and looked for beans. He finds a handful of beans, declares that these were native beans that were 150 million years old. You then reveal that you had just recently scattered the beans around your property, thus the beans could not be 150 million years old. So the scientist comes back out to save face, looks around, and finds a bunch more beans, but because they are not exactly like the previous beans (they have been exposed to the elements for a while now), the beans were mistakenly identified as 150 million years old, but are actually only 95 million years old.

Thus, the scientist saves face by “correcting” his figures, and you just walk off shaking your head.


252 posted on 07/28/2007 10:54:52 AM PDT by TheBattman (I've got TWO QUESTIONS for you....)
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To: TheBattman

I believe that I made a good point.

I believe that you did too.

I am not “just walk off shaking your head.”

Intellectual honesty and funding is the problem.


253 posted on 07/28/2007 11:19:56 AM PDT by Eaker (If illegal immigrants were so great for an economy; Mexico would be building a wall to keep them in)
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To: vpintheak

Do yourself a favor, you won’t regret it. Go to http://www.talkorigins.org/ and read the factual scientific information there about Creationist claims and evolutionary theory, and you will see how you are terribly wrong. Referencing from Creationist or religious websites, with their a priori bias for believing in superstitious fairy tales, and outright lies and distortions about good science presented as “religious” truth, is wrong. I just checked the Biblegateway.com website and it is filled with distortions and contradictions. Obviously the people who wrote this either know nothing about science; or are deliberately distorting the facts to promote their agenda.


254 posted on 07/28/2007 11:20:40 AM PDT by Locke_2007 (Liberals are non-sentient life forms)
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To: js1138

Showing compatibility with Newton would require a diagram of the entire universe, and even then, it’s not really compatible in any CS; that’s the reason for GR.


255 posted on 07/28/2007 5:35:04 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Showing compatibility with Newton would require a diagram of the entire universe...

Don't get in over your head. If your system of gravity and your laws of motion work for the universe, they will work for the solar system.

Just draw us a simple diagram of the sun, earth and Venus, showing how they orbit, and how the phases of Venus occur. Then show us your simple laws of motion and gravity that explain and predict how Venus periodically reverses direction. I'm not asking you to diagram the entire universe.

256 posted on 07/28/2007 5:51:22 PM PDT by js1138
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To: Locke_2007

I hope you change your mind someday. Until then.


257 posted on 07/28/2007 8:48:56 PM PDT by vpintheak (Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked. Prov. 25:26)
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To: Porterville
The Earth is not only scientifically proved to be 4.5 billion years of age... it is also works easily with biblical philosophy
How do you figure that??
258 posted on 07/29/2007 12:21:37 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: js1138

You are sadly muddled.


259 posted on 07/29/2007 2:52:00 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: editor-surveyor

If your system of gravity and your laws of motion work for the universe, they will work for the solar system.

Just draw us a simple diagram of the sun, earth and Venus, showing how they orbit, and how the phases of Venus occur. Then show us your simple laws of motion and gravity that explain and predict how Venus periodically reverses direction. I’m not asking you to diagram the entire universe.


260 posted on 07/29/2007 3:42:07 PM PDT by js1138
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