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Racial profiling "is not a myth"
Quad=Cities Online ^ | July 23, 2007 | AP

Posted on 07/23/2007 3:08:59 AM PDT by skimbell

After three years of tracking every traffic stop and reporting each incident in detail, Illinois police have a mountain of data, a few clear trends in how drivers are treated and difficult questions.

For the third year, police in 2006 pulled over about 2.5 million drivers. And just as in the first two years, minorities were stopped in larger percentages than population numbers would suggest, and were much more likely to be searched than whites.

But it's not clear who will answer questions

(Excerpt) Read more at qconline.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: govwatch
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Now this is the way to spend tax dollars! /s
1 posted on 07/23/2007 3:09:02 AM PDT by skimbell
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To: skimbell

It does not go far enough to be a scientific study. Nobody wants to delve into whether “minorities” are more likely to misbehave in traffic — especially if we’re counting in illegal aliens. That’s a question as radioactive as Chernobyl.


2 posted on 07/23/2007 3:14:29 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: skimbell

After all the years this subject has been discussed I have come to the conclusion that, in my opinion, we will never get rid of racial profiling 100%. It will be done by groups and individuals at a near sub-concious level in some cases. So it will always be with us to some degree, like it or not.


3 posted on 07/23/2007 3:17:30 AM PDT by Bogtrotter52 (Reading DU daily so you won't hafta)
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To: skimbell

Some call it good police work.


4 posted on 07/23/2007 3:19:10 AM PDT by tupac
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To: skimbell

What if blacks really do break traffic laws at higher rates than whites?

“A New Jersey study suggesting black drivers speed more than other drivers was released this week despite federal government concerns about its accuracy.

The study found African-American motorists are more likely than white drivers to exceed the 65 mph speed limit on the southern end of the New Jersey Turnpike.”

N.J. releases controversial racial speeding study
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/03/27/nj.speeding.study/index.html


5 posted on 07/23/2007 3:31:29 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: skimbell

Flawed conclusion. If you combine any 2 or 3 “minorities”, they are not a minority any more. Instant race baiting.


6 posted on 07/23/2007 3:34:10 AM PDT by xcamel ("It's Talk Thompson Time!" >> irc://irc.freenode.net/fredthompson)
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To: skimbell

If you love irony, check this out:

POLITICS, IMPRISONMENT AND RACE

“An adult black man is seven times more likely to be found housed behind bars as is his white counterpart. Paradoxically, the largest disparities are found in political domains controlled by liberals — the leaders in the struggle for racial justice. By examining how criminal behavior is distributed within the races, the paradox is resolved showing it to be an unintended consequence of liberal benevolence and goodwill.”

http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/prison.htm


7 posted on 07/23/2007 3:34:26 AM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: FreedomPoster

The New Jersey study should be definitive. It used cameras triggered by radar—there was no human input in selecting violators.


8 posted on 07/23/2007 3:50:08 AM PDT by Flintlock
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To: Flintlock

HA, you think objectivity has anything to do with this? /s

Politically correct charlatans already know what all the answers have to be, so don’t go confusing them with any politically incorrect data!!


9 posted on 07/23/2007 3:57:02 AM PDT by Enchante (Reid and Pelosi Defeatocrats: Surrender Now - Peace for Our Time!!)
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To: skimbell
9% of whites were found with with license-registration violations while the figure for non-whites was 12%. Maybe the headline should read:

"Study Finds Minorities 30% More Likely to Drive Without a License"

A reason right there to pull them over to begin with.

10 posted on 07/23/2007 4:10:39 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: skimbell
"But when they do, minorities are asked more than twice as often as whites"

And the result of those searches, white vs non-white? I'm guessing the non-white searches were more productive.

11 posted on 07/23/2007 4:13:15 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: skimbell
I used to drive up and down US route 95 from Florida to Massachusetts a couple of times a year.

My personal survey of driving habits supports these conclusions.

12 posted on 07/23/2007 4:15:15 AM PDT by Beckwith (dhimmicrats and the liberal media have chosen sides -- Islamofascism)
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To: skimbell

What shares me is the probable ‘fix’ that will inevitably be proposed: Start stopping more whites for little to no reason to raise the quota of whites arrested, and ignoring black scofflaws.


13 posted on 07/23/2007 4:16:37 AM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: robertpaulsen
"Study Finds Minorities 30% More Likely to Drive Without a License"

Minorities are also much more likely to show up on police computers as having felony convictions, outstanding arrest warrants, unpaid fines and tickets, etc, etc

14 posted on 07/23/2007 4:25:11 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Open Season rocks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymLJz3N8ayI)
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bump


15 posted on 07/23/2007 4:28:19 AM PDT by foreverfree
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To: skimbell

I’d like to see the statistics on double parking, boom-box-mobiles, and parking in no parking zones. People who do these minor crimes will also be the same ones who run stop signs, speed and do other moving violations.


16 posted on 07/23/2007 4:28:20 AM PDT by BuffaloJack
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To: skimbell

In Tampa, if you drive on Columbus Ave, the driving habits of people around you suddenly become very very interesting. You better keep your head on a swivel!

You see, this is a highly concentrated latin area called West Tampa. These people do not drive well. Believe it.

My wife and I both come from Tampa latin families. We laugh about Columbus Ave. It happens EVERY TIME we drive down there! Every time.


17 posted on 07/23/2007 4:32:50 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (The FairTax and the North American Union are mutually exclusive.)
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To: skimbell

A 1997 study of dog bite fatalities in the years 1979 through 1996 revealed that the following breeds had killed one or more persons: pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards, and Akitas. (from http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2004/112004/11102004/1562575/printer_friendly)

So, is this “dog profiling,” “breedism,” or facts?


18 posted on 07/23/2007 4:52:47 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Right Wing Assault

So the people getting pulled over/arrested aren’t really committing any violations. Is that it?


19 posted on 07/23/2007 5:16:51 AM PDT by Temple Drake (quem timebo?)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: skimbell
2.5 million stops in 1 year in 1 city alone...

and they say they don't have the manpower to remove/deport illegals. oh please.

21 posted on 07/23/2007 5:36:19 AM PDT by sten
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To: skimbell
For the third year, police in 2006 pulled over about 2.5 million drivers. And just as in the first two years, minorities were stopped in larger percentages than population numbers would suggest, and were much more likely to be searched than whites.

Hmmm, maybe because they commit more crimes than whites? Nah, couldn't be!

22 posted on 07/23/2007 5:42:27 AM PDT by Clam Digger
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To: scan59

ping you again
Good points raised here.


23 posted on 07/23/2007 5:43:21 AM PDT by scan58 (Diversity results in a collection of unconnected individuals.)
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To: sten
Of the more than 900 police departments surveyed, more than 360 departments last year reported pulling over minorities in smaller numbers than their estimated driving population.

And of the five departments that reported the biggest increases in stops from 2004 to 2005, three reported that stops declined in 2006.

24 posted on 07/23/2007 5:51:51 AM PDT by stylin19a (Don't buy a putter until you have had a chance to throw it.)
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To: FreedomPoster
What if blacks really do break traffic laws at higher rates than whites?

The study is comparing apples and oranges. The proper comparison is the rate at which minorities are observed by the police violating the law vs the rate at which others are observed violating the law and then comparing that to the relative rates of stops. Two factors confound the analysis--both related to observation:

1. Your question: do minorities violate the law more frequently than others; and

2. Do police observe minority violations more frequently? This later factor could be just a factor of good policing--more cops in high crime areas mean, on average, a greater proportion of minorities will be observed every day by police. Thus, maybe non-minorities drive around with broken headlights at the same rate as minorities (that is, factor 1 for equipment violations is the same as between minorities and others). But if police are concentrated in high-crime districts, they will observe more violations by minorities than the minority proportion of the population. So if they stop minorities at the same rate as others (per observed violation), the result would be numbers like you see in the study.

It would be interesting to see if the numbers change depending on the race of the stopping officer. That would be an easy number for the legislature to require.

25 posted on 07/23/2007 5:52:58 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Temple Drake
So the people getting pulled over/arrested aren’t really committing any violations. Is that it?

I'm not sure how you got that from my comment. Those pulled over certainly ARE breaking the law in the vast majority of cases.

I am just making the point that just as some types of dogs are more likely to be violent, different groups of humans are also more likely to break the law.

26 posted on 07/23/2007 5:54:18 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: ModelBreaker

The study in question answers your #1 directly. Evidence is, they do. So your apples/oranges assertion is bogus.


27 posted on 07/23/2007 5:55:55 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: SauronOfMordor

“Minorities are also much more likely to show up on police computers as having felony convictions, outstanding arrest warrants, unpaid fines and tickets, etc, etc”

They are also less likely to carry a license, proof of insurance, etc. If cops do a random road-block, license check here, you see rows of young black male drivers pulled over. The police department here is largely black, so is that profiling?


28 posted on 07/23/2007 5:56:00 AM PDT by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: tupac

I’m one of those!! Maybe, just maybe, these minority types are over-achievers in the traffic infraction and other categories.


29 posted on 07/23/2007 6:02:54 AM PDT by twonie (Keep your guns - and stockpile ammo.)
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To: BuffaloJack

Then you’re going to be stopping white kids too.


30 posted on 07/23/2007 6:13:40 AM PDT by TypeZoNegative (Trinidad&Tobago: Proof that a Muslim minority (5%pop) causes a majority of a country's problems.)
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To: L98Fiero

I also hear minority drivers are more likely to eat fried chicken. I hear having a greasy steering wheel makes it hard to drive and causes all of those accidents </sarc>


31 posted on 07/23/2007 6:16:00 AM PDT by TypeZoNegative (Trinidad&Tobago: Proof that a Muslim minority (5%pop) causes a majority of a country's problems.)
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To: xcamel
Exactly, if you combine every group other than "whites" to be "a minority", then of course the "minority" becomes in fact the majority.

I'd wager if you really mine this data that speeders and drunks were hassled disproportionately more than nonspeeders and sober people. Discrimination!

32 posted on 07/23/2007 6:17:04 AM PDT by Sender (Be subtle! Be subtle! And use your squirrels for every kind of business.)
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To: Right Wing Assault

Wow. Who woulda thunk pit bulls would be #1. No Goldens or cockers? This is profiling.


33 posted on 07/23/2007 6:34:48 AM PDT by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: All

This does not answer the question. It ASSUMES law breaking is spread equally among the skin pigments.

I think it is more a matter of ecconomics.

Perhaps what they need to do is use people with IDENTICAL profiles.

IE a red ferrari driver, male, between 18 and 40, who earns at least 300,000 a year. You take this pool and see which skin pigments get the most speeding tickets.

Do the identical study with someone who drives a 1980’s chrystler K car with same job and age characteristics and repeat observations.

This study is preset to be a hiderance to police stopping certain minorities. (keeps the campaign contributions flowing)


34 posted on 07/23/2007 6:42:52 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: sportutegrl

or they simply don’t stop black people. This leaves the crack dealers, uninsured drivers, DUI/DWI suspects, and other fun people with the “correct” skin color free to go about their business. Crime goes up, and screams follow to tax the rich more...


35 posted on 07/23/2007 6:46:39 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: tupac

I was a city police officer in the South for a few years in the 50’s, and I can assure you when I pulled a car over for a traffic violation I had no idea what the skin color of the driver was until I stepped up to his car door.

Driving behind the vehicle with blue lights does not give you a clue.


36 posted on 07/23/2007 7:18:32 AM PDT by elpadre
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To: robertpaulsen
"Study Finds Minorities 30% More Likely to Drive Without a License"

A reason right there to pull them over to begin with.

How do you know if they have a license before you pull them over?

37 posted on 07/23/2007 7:26:51 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists, FairTaxers and goldbugs so bad at math?)
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To: ModelBreaker
It would be interesting to see if the numbers change depending on the race of the stopping officer.

Yes they do. For example, in Washington DC where only about 28% of the cops are white, they have the largest disparity of black/white incarceration. In white conservative areas of the country the the ratio is smaller. Blacks in D.C. are thirty times more likely to be in jail.

POLITICS, IMPRISONMENT AND RACE

Another question regarding this issue: would it be more fair if police scrutiny of crime were relaxed for minorities? In other words, would the black community benefit if they did not have equal protection of the law?

38 posted on 07/23/2007 9:15:26 AM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: FreedomPoster
Posted by FreedomPoster to ModelBreaker On News/Activism 07/23/2007 5:55:55 AM PDT · 27 of 38 The study in question answers your #1 directly. Evidence is, they do. So your apples/oranges assertion is bogus.

I think you misunderstood my post. I was agreeing with you. That said, the study does not answer question 1. It answers who gets stopped by police. It does not answer the harder question of who is committing crimes. That's a much harder question to put numbers on because crimes are committed in private and most are not solved. You can use arrest or conviction rates as a proxy for that number; but there are a lot of confounding factors that make arrest and conviction rates by race not much more than a very rough cut at the number.

39 posted on 07/23/2007 11:30:13 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Dan Evans
Yes they do. For example, in Washington DC where only about 28% of the cops are white, they have the largest disparity of black/white incarceration. In white conservative areas of the country the the ratio is smaller. Blacks in D.C. are thirty times more likely to be in jail.

I'm not sure cross-jurisdictional comparisons are valid. Especially for DC, which has a bizarrely skewed white population. What would be interesting to see is what the differential arrest rates are for white vs black policemen in DC.

40 posted on 07/23/2007 11:32:47 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: skimbell

As a white driver my own impression after living in a virtually all-white area of the country is that most drivers, whatever the ethnic makeup, are seriously disturbed. When I drive about seventy mph on Wisconsin’s I-90 and 94 I will be passed like I’m standing still by what it seems is every other driver on the road. People drive like maniacs on Wisconsin’s highways. And they’re just about all white from what I’ve observed.


41 posted on 07/23/2007 11:43:01 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: driftless2

The essence of good transportation is speed. People are making rational economic decisions, in the face of poor regulatory ones making speed limits ridiculously low, when compared to the capabilities of modern vehicles.


42 posted on 07/23/2007 11:45:52 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: FreedomPoster
"rational decisions"

Going eighty miles an hour in packed circumstances is not exercising rational judgment in my opinion. I'm not against fast speeds in fact I'd like to see Wisconsin's speed limit raised five mph. However in my observations too many Wisconsin drivers exhibit poor habits and not just by speeding. Tailgating, risky passing maneuvers, and failure to obey common road rules and courtesy are huge problems here.

43 posted on 07/23/2007 11:53:15 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: ModelBreaker
That said, the study does not answer question 1.

There are two studies, first the improper one this thread started off about and second, the The New Jersey Study linked to later on. The New Jersey study answered question 1. It was not based on arrests but on pictures of all drivers and their speed.

44 posted on 07/23/2007 12:08:27 PM PDT by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: ModelBreaker
It does not answer the harder question of who is committing crimes. ...crimes are committed in private and most are not solved.

One way to look at that is to use victimization studies. A victimization survey gets data from victims who report the race of the offender, not the criminal justice system. These studies consistently confirm criminality rates observed in arrest and conviction studies.

45 posted on 07/23/2007 12:11:33 PM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: skimbell

Posted Online: Posted online: July 23, 2007 12:16 AM
Print publication date:
Studies suggest crops contribute to steamy weather
Comment on this story

Gene Strathdee D.D.S.
Releave the pain and suffering of migraines

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — All hot and sweaty this summer? It could be the corn.

Climatologists are building evidence that crops, particularly corn, are driving up dew points as they put water into the atmosphere through evaporation. They also may make corn-growing areas cooler and alter rain patterns.

Some say the extra moisture could even add energy to thunderstorms, with one study arguing that a 2001 tornado in Benson got a power boost from corn evaporation.

“I think there’s a new realization that there is a two-way interaction between weather and agriculture,” said Richard Raddatz, a climatologist at the University of Winnipeg, who has studied the transformation of the Canadian prairies from grassland to cropland.

In some ways, researchers are taking a second look at a 19th century adage — “rain follows the plow.” Popularized by Charles Dana Wilber in an 1881 book touting the agricultural promise of Nebraska, the phrase supported a grand notion that the western Great Plains, which in the early 19th century had been labeled the “Great American Desert,” could be transformed into a garden if people would expose its moist soil to the atmosphere.

Rainy years added credibility to the idea, but it was discredited as pseudo-science after homesteaders who flooded the plains were trapped by drought and bankruptcy.

Raddatz, however, said there is a growing body of research indicating that contemporary crops do indeed change the way water, heat and energy interact with the atmosphere.

By “transpiring” more heavily than the prairie grasses that preceded them, and in relatively short periods, crops can generate air movements that can lead to storms, and intensify the season during which water is cycled through the atmosphere.

Raddatz published a summary of studies of cropping and weather in February in the journal Agricultural and Forest Meteorology. They add some oomph to a 2002 study of dew points by Northern Illinois University climatologist David Changnon, which pinned a 40-year trend toward higher dew points in the Midwest, and record-high dew points during recent heat waves, on changes in farming. (Excerpt)


46 posted on 07/23/2007 12:43:09 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: driftless2
I drive in Wisconsin nearly every week. I drive the west side of the state and during the past decade or so I notice that I've been stopped more frequently by the state police concerning my rate of travel. I usually get by explaining that as I live in Illinois I am simply mesmerized by the quality of Wisconsin's roads. That line works no more. Several weeks ago I was stopped for doing 59 in a 55. After a discussion with the trooper he decided to give me a warning but cautioned me that Wisconsin had just reorganized their traffic policy and that the standard 5-8 mph over the limit was no more. He also cautioned me that the next time would not be a warning and that the new minimum fine was $160+ court fees.

It's not as wild as Virginia but $160 is $160.

I've slowed down.

You are correct about the typical driver in Wisconsin though. It seems as though I now get passed by everything including the Amish horse drawn buggies on their way home from church.

47 posted on 07/23/2007 1:33:25 PM PDT by skimbell (Conservatism Works)
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To: driftless2

I’m all for those other behaviors being ticketed (and taught). All too often, only speeding is, because it’s an easy revenue generator.


48 posted on 07/23/2007 2:15:16 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: FreedomPoster

We already know that blacks commit homicide at a disproportionate rate. Blacks constitute nearly 50% of homicide victims and 94% of those are killed by other blacks. But due to the pernicious influence of the intellectual scourge of our time, political correctness; the study that might confirm this is unlikely to be released if it is ever conducted. It is so much easier to fan the fires of racial grievance.


49 posted on 07/23/2007 6:30:35 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: TypeZoNegative

“I also hear minority drivers are more likely to eat fried chicken. I hear having a greasy steering wheel makes it hard to drive and causes all of those accidents </sarc>”

That made me think of something that almost made me have an accident once.

I was driving home from work and I passed this car just in time to see a rather large woman stick a chicken leg completely in her mouth and pull out nothing but the bone. The jokes for that one write themselves.


50 posted on 07/24/2007 6:52:56 AM PDT by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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