Skip to comments.Racial profiling "is not a myth"
Posted on 07/23/2007 3:08:59 AM PDT by skimbell
After three years of tracking every traffic stop and reporting each incident in detail, Illinois police have a mountain of data, a few clear trends in how drivers are treated and difficult questions.
For the third year, police in 2006 pulled over about 2.5 million drivers. And just as in the first two years, minorities were stopped in larger percentages than population numbers would suggest, and were much more likely to be searched than whites.
But it's not clear who will answer questions
(Excerpt) Read more at qconline.com ...
It does not go far enough to be a scientific study. Nobody wants to delve into whether “minorities” are more likely to misbehave in traffic — especially if we’re counting in illegal aliens. That’s a question as radioactive as Chernobyl.
After all the years this subject has been discussed I have come to the conclusion that, in my opinion, we will never get rid of racial profiling 100%. It will be done by groups and individuals at a near sub-concious level in some cases. So it will always be with us to some degree, like it or not.
Some call it good police work.
What if blacks really do break traffic laws at higher rates than whites?
“A New Jersey study suggesting black drivers speed more than other drivers was released this week despite federal government concerns about its accuracy.
The study found African-American motorists are more likely than white drivers to exceed the 65 mph speed limit on the southern end of the New Jersey Turnpike.”
N.J. releases controversial racial speeding study
Flawed conclusion. If you combine any 2 or 3 “minorities”, they are not a minority any more. Instant race baiting.
If you love irony, check this out:
POLITICS, IMPRISONMENT AND RACE
“An adult black man is seven times more likely to be found housed behind bars as is his white counterpart. Paradoxically, the largest disparities are found in political domains controlled by liberals — the leaders in the struggle for racial justice. By examining how criminal behavior is distributed within the races, the paradox is resolved showing it to be an unintended consequence of liberal benevolence and goodwill.”
The New Jersey study should be definitive. It used cameras triggered by radar—there was no human input in selecting violators.
HA, you think objectivity has anything to do with this? /s
Politically correct charlatans already know what all the answers have to be, so don’t go confusing them with any politically incorrect data!!
"Study Finds Minorities 30% More Likely to Drive Without a License"
A reason right there to pull them over to begin with.
And the result of those searches, white vs non-white? I'm guessing the non-white searches were more productive.
My personal survey of driving habits supports these conclusions.
What shares me is the probable ‘fix’ that will inevitably be proposed: Start stopping more whites for little to no reason to raise the quota of whites arrested, and ignoring black scofflaws.
Minorities are also much more likely to show up on police computers as having felony convictions, outstanding arrest warrants, unpaid fines and tickets, etc, etc
I’d like to see the statistics on double parking, boom-box-mobiles, and parking in no parking zones. People who do these minor crimes will also be the same ones who run stop signs, speed and do other moving violations.
In Tampa, if you drive on Columbus Ave, the driving habits of people around you suddenly become very very interesting. You better keep your head on a swivel!
You see, this is a highly concentrated latin area called West Tampa. These people do not drive well. Believe it.
My wife and I both come from Tampa latin families. We laugh about Columbus Ave. It happens EVERY TIME we drive down there! Every time.
A 1997 study of dog bite fatalities in the years 1979 through 1996 revealed that the following breeds had killed one or more persons: pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards, and Akitas. (from http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2004/112004/11102004/1562575/printer_friendly)
So, is this “dog profiling,” “breedism,” or facts?
So the people getting pulled over/arrested aren’t really committing any violations. Is that it?
and they say they don't have the manpower to remove/deport illegals. oh please.
Hmmm, maybe because they commit more crimes than whites? Nah, couldn't be!
ping you again
Good points raised here.
The study is comparing apples and oranges. The proper comparison is the rate at which minorities are observed by the police violating the law vs the rate at which others are observed violating the law and then comparing that to the relative rates of stops. Two factors confound the analysis--both related to observation:
1. Your question: do minorities violate the law more frequently than others; and
2. Do police observe minority violations more frequently? This later factor could be just a factor of good policing--more cops in high crime areas mean, on average, a greater proportion of minorities will be observed every day by police. Thus, maybe non-minorities drive around with broken headlights at the same rate as minorities (that is, factor 1 for equipment violations is the same as between minorities and others). But if police are concentrated in high-crime districts, they will observe more violations by minorities than the minority proportion of the population. So if they stop minorities at the same rate as others (per observed violation), the result would be numbers like you see in the study.
It would be interesting to see if the numbers change depending on the race of the stopping officer. That would be an easy number for the legislature to require.
I'm not sure how you got that from my comment. Those pulled over certainly ARE breaking the law in the vast majority of cases.
I am just making the point that just as some types of dogs are more likely to be violent, different groups of humans are also more likely to break the law.
The study in question answers your #1 directly. Evidence is, they do. So your apples/oranges assertion is bogus.
“Minorities are also much more likely to show up on police computers as having felony convictions, outstanding arrest warrants, unpaid fines and tickets, etc, etc”
They are also less likely to carry a license, proof of insurance, etc. If cops do a random road-block, license check here, you see rows of young black male drivers pulled over. The police department here is largely black, so is that profiling?
I’m one of those!! Maybe, just maybe, these minority types are over-achievers in the traffic infraction and other categories.
Then you’re going to be stopping white kids too.
I also hear minority drivers are more likely to eat fried chicken. I hear having a greasy steering wheel makes it hard to drive and causes all of those accidents </sarc>
I'd wager if you really mine this data that speeders and drunks were hassled disproportionately more than nonspeeders and sober people. Discrimination!
Wow. Who woulda thunk pit bulls would be #1. No Goldens or cockers? This is profiling.
This does not answer the question. It ASSUMES law breaking is spread equally among the skin pigments.
I think it is more a matter of ecconomics.
Perhaps what they need to do is use people with IDENTICAL profiles.
IE a red ferrari driver, male, between 18 and 40, who earns at least 300,000 a year. You take this pool and see which skin pigments get the most speeding tickets.
Do the identical study with someone who drives a 1980’s chrystler K car with same job and age characteristics and repeat observations.
This study is preset to be a hiderance to police stopping certain minorities. (keeps the campaign contributions flowing)
or they simply don’t stop black people. This leaves the crack dealers, uninsured drivers, DUI/DWI suspects, and other fun people with the “correct” skin color free to go about their business. Crime goes up, and screams follow to tax the rich more...
I was a city police officer in the South for a few years in the 50’s, and I can assure you when I pulled a car over for a traffic violation I had no idea what the skin color of the driver was until I stepped up to his car door.
Driving behind the vehicle with blue lights does not give you a clue.
A reason right there to pull them over to begin with.
How do you know if they have a license before you pull them over?
Yes they do. For example, in Washington DC where only about 28% of the cops are white, they have the largest disparity of black/white incarceration. In white conservative areas of the country the the ratio is smaller. Blacks in D.C. are thirty times more likely to be in jail.
Another question regarding this issue: would it be more fair if police scrutiny of crime were relaxed for minorities? In other words, would the black community benefit if they did not have equal protection of the law?
I think you misunderstood my post. I was agreeing with you. That said, the study does not answer question 1. It answers who gets stopped by police. It does not answer the harder question of who is committing crimes. That's a much harder question to put numbers on because crimes are committed in private and most are not solved. You can use arrest or conviction rates as a proxy for that number; but there are a lot of confounding factors that make arrest and conviction rates by race not much more than a very rough cut at the number.
I'm not sure cross-jurisdictional comparisons are valid. Especially for DC, which has a bizarrely skewed white population. What would be interesting to see is what the differential arrest rates are for white vs black policemen in DC.
As a white driver my own impression after living in a virtually all-white area of the country is that most drivers, whatever the ethnic makeup, are seriously disturbed. When I drive about seventy mph on Wisconsin’s I-90 and 94 I will be passed like I’m standing still by what it seems is every other driver on the road. People drive like maniacs on Wisconsin’s highways. And they’re just about all white from what I’ve observed.
The essence of good transportation is speed. People are making rational economic decisions, in the face of poor regulatory ones making speed limits ridiculously low, when compared to the capabilities of modern vehicles.
Going eighty miles an hour in packed circumstances is not exercising rational judgment in my opinion. I'm not against fast speeds in fact I'd like to see Wisconsin's speed limit raised five mph. However in my observations too many Wisconsin drivers exhibit poor habits and not just by speeding. Tailgating, risky passing maneuvers, and failure to obey common road rules and courtesy are huge problems here.
There are two studies, first the improper one this thread started off about and second, the The New Jersey Study linked to later on. The New Jersey study answered question 1. It was not based on arrests but on pictures of all drivers and their speed.
One way to look at that is to use victimization studies. A victimization survey gets data from victims who report the race of the offender, not the criminal justice system. These studies consistently confirm criminality rates observed in arrest and conviction studies.
Posted Online: Posted online: July 23, 2007 12:16 AM
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Studies suggest crops contribute to steamy weather
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Gene Strathdee D.D.S.
Releave the pain and suffering of migraines
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — All hot and sweaty this summer? It could be the corn.
Climatologists are building evidence that crops, particularly corn, are driving up dew points as they put water into the atmosphere through evaporation. They also may make corn-growing areas cooler and alter rain patterns.
Some say the extra moisture could even add energy to thunderstorms, with one study arguing that a 2001 tornado in Benson got a power boost from corn evaporation.
“I think there’s a new realization that there is a two-way interaction between weather and agriculture,” said Richard Raddatz, a climatologist at the University of Winnipeg, who has studied the transformation of the Canadian prairies from grassland to cropland.
In some ways, researchers are taking a second look at a 19th century adage — “rain follows the plow.” Popularized by Charles Dana Wilber in an 1881 book touting the agricultural promise of Nebraska, the phrase supported a grand notion that the western Great Plains, which in the early 19th century had been labeled the “Great American Desert,” could be transformed into a garden if people would expose its moist soil to the atmosphere.
Rainy years added credibility to the idea, but it was discredited as pseudo-science after homesteaders who flooded the plains were trapped by drought and bankruptcy.
Raddatz, however, said there is a growing body of research indicating that contemporary crops do indeed change the way water, heat and energy interact with the atmosphere.
By “transpiring” more heavily than the prairie grasses that preceded them, and in relatively short periods, crops can generate air movements that can lead to storms, and intensify the season during which water is cycled through the atmosphere.
Raddatz published a summary of studies of cropping and weather in February in the journal Agricultural and Forest Meteorology. They add some oomph to a 2002 study of dew points by Northern Illinois University climatologist David Changnon, which pinned a 40-year trend toward higher dew points in the Midwest, and record-high dew points during recent heat waves, on changes in farming. (Excerpt)
It's not as wild as Virginia but $160 is $160.
I've slowed down.
You are correct about the typical driver in Wisconsin though. It seems as though I now get passed by everything including the Amish horse drawn buggies on their way home from church.
I’m all for those other behaviors being ticketed (and taught). All too often, only speeding is, because it’s an easy revenue generator.
We already know that blacks commit homicide at a disproportionate rate. Blacks constitute nearly 50% of homicide victims and 94% of those are killed by other blacks. But due to the pernicious influence of the intellectual scourge of our time, political correctness; the study that might confirm this is unlikely to be released if it is ever conducted. It is so much easier to fan the fires of racial grievance.
“I also hear minority drivers are more likely to eat fried chicken. I hear having a greasy steering wheel makes it hard to drive and causes all of those accidents </sarc>”
That made me think of something that almost made me have an accident once.
I was driving home from work and I passed this car just in time to see a rather large woman stick a chicken leg completely in her mouth and pull out nothing but the bone. The jokes for that one write themselves.