Was Tillman Murdered? AP Gets New Documents (Lefty Smear Campaign Alert)

Editor & Publisher (via AP) ^ | 7/26/2007 | Unattributed

[mojito]

Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Among other information contained in the documents:

-- In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

-- Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

-- The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

-- No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.

The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.

In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.

At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.

The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.

Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.

"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.

Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.

Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.

[mojito]

I find this tremendously suspicious. I don't see this story on the AP wire (although it could be there). No "major" news organizations have picked it up. In the wake of the TNR debacle, this looks like more of the same from those elements in the press who seek to utterly discredit the brave men and women of the Armed Forces of the United States, and have us surrender to our enemies (which include the lefty-america hating press).

[bolobaby]

“— In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop “sniveling.”

....

— No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.”

Completely contradictory statements, but as long as it supports their conspiracy theory...

THEY FELL IN THEIR OWN FOOTPRINT!!!

Moonbats. Sigh.

[stuartcr]

...”You’ve got me really scared about my brain right now. I’m really having a problem.” ...I find it very hard to believe a 3star said that.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

Yes...by Bush and Rove.

(Let me save the moonbats the trouble.)

[captain_dave]

“...Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman’s forehead...”

---

These guys must be stupid. Three bullet holes and they don’t know why? The M-16A2 rifle has single shot and three round burst settings (and safety). The reasonable conclusion is that the rifle was set to burst.

[elc]

Not to take the side of the AP here, but those sentences aren’t really contradictory. They may not have been under enemy fire, but they could have been under friendly fire.

[Joe 6-pack]

I think we should look into the Tillman death just as soon as we’ve resolved the questions surrounding Vinnie Foster and Ron Brown.

[gunnyg]

?????

http://tinyurl.com/27nmy3
http://tinyurl.com/27nmy3

[McGruff]

In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

So this guy saw it happen?

the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

If someone gets hit with a bullet don't they normally fall down not remain motionless there for 2 more rounds to hit closely?

It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.

Gee, maybe they were trying to portray you son the hero that he was?

[dan1123]

The leftists are spinning it like mad: New Evidence Clearly Indicates Pat Tillman Was Executed

[weegee]

The Left didn’t care when Sgt. Akbar murdered his fellow officers. Leftists are scum. They parade with banners with slogans such as “I Support Our Troops When They Shoot Their Officers”. Ted Rall certainly hasn’t been respectful of the sacrifice that Pat Tillman made, Ted has called Pat a dupe who died for a stupid cause led by the Evil Bush.

[ModelBreaker]

We are now reaching the same threshold we did in Vietnam. The left has been keeping up the facade until now that they support the troops and oppose the war. In reality, they hate all aspects of American strength, including soldiers.

This is a transition from "we support the troops" to a John Kerry, "Our Troops are Monsters," stance by the left. John Murtha tried it earlier but it was too soon. It feels about right now.

HRC will try to keep it under wraps for 2008. But, like her husband and the KOSaticks she "loathes the military." We will see more and more of this.

[org.whodat]

they could have been under friendly fire.

Yes, and that is the problem it was close range fire, don't know about the friendly part, but I do know that several officers need to be shown the door.

[SeaHawkFan]

From the beginning I have wondered if Tillman was shot by friendly fire because of a “John Wayne attitude” and did something stupid that put him in the line of friendly fire; or he was such a danger to the lives of his comrades that someone decided to eliminate that danger.

On the other hand, if he was out of position facing a friendly position, it is very possible that he was shot in the forehead by three rounds, and likely not from the same rifle.

I seriously doubt that one man could get off a three round burst with all three striking someone in the forehead, even at very close ranges.

How ironic it would be if Tillman who was awarded a posthumous Silver Star in an effort to make him out to be a hero when he might have died because of his own arrogance and stupidity.

Not saying it happened that way, but I would not be surprised.

[mojito]

“According to Daily Kos, Wesley Clark appeared on Keith Olbermann’s Countdown last night and stated that “the orders came from the very top” to murder Tillman as he was a political symbol and his opposition to the war in Iraq would have rallied the population around supporting immediate withdrawal.”

Did Wesley Clark really say this on Olbermann’s show? It would be very easy to verify. This is an outrageous accusation, and he better have some powerful evidence. On the other hand, the left is in a kind of swamp-fever madness these days, and it’s only going to get worse, the closer we get to the 08 election.

[dan1123]

It’s too easy to know what the moonbat crowd will come up with. Of course they will say that Bush secretly gave the order to kill Tillman after he secretly came to the conclusion that the war was wrong and was going to be an anti-war activist.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this came up in the impeachment arguments: “Impeach Bush, he killed Pat Tillman!”

[mojito]

The story is now up at Drudge. The author is Martha Mendoza. I know nothing about her previous work.

[kb2614]

The doctors - whose names were blacked out

How convenient to quote Dr. Anonymous.

[BGHater]

That is not a leftist site, for from it.

[WhiteGuy]

Was Tillman Murdered?

don't know, but Mr. Tillman's life and death were politicized and turned into propaganda...........then the truth was covered up and lied about.

[af_vet_rr]

I seriously doubt that one man could get off a three round burst with all three striking someone in the forehead, even at very close ranges.

If the rounds hit as close together as the medical examiners say they did, if it was one shooter, they'd have to be close since we are talking a 3-round burst - the further you are away, the more of a spread you get.

It could be done, but the shooter would have to be close if it was an M-16/M-4 or it would have the luckiest, most incredible shooting in the world. Once you get even 50 feet away, to get that kind of a grouping, you'd have to be braced against something and aiming carefully and your target would have to be against something (braced, tied, whatever), otherwise just the slightest move of the rifle in between shots as well as the target would cause the grouping to spread out (and even then it would be hard as hell). Keep in mind this is a human being, not a fixed target, and there is going to be movement.

I do believe one person could have done it. It's possible one person could have shot twice and another once, and had that close of a grouping, but the odds of that go through the roof and then some, since they'd have to fire simultaneously to get that grouping (Tillman's body would have been involuntarily moving from the initial hits).

I don't know what to think though, because some of the Officers running the investigation(s) have so distorted things, that well, I'm just glad the Army saw fit to punish them (even if for some it's not much of a punishment). When somebody dies in the service of their country, their family deserves the truth, no matter how awful it maybe.

[af_vet_rr]

Of course they will say that Bush secretly gave the order to kill Tillman after he secretly came to the conclusion that the war was wrong and was going to be an anti-war activist.

Tillman's death could hurt recruiting efforts, and we all know that Bush wants to hurt recruiting efforts as much as possible (these people probably think Bush gave the orders to fly aircraft into the World Trade Center towers, they probably eat, breathe, and **** aluminum foil).

[af_vet_rr]

How convenient to quote Dr. Anonymous.

These are Department of Defense documents, if you have another source that's better than the DoD information, please share it with us.

For people looking for conspiracies (I'm not talking about you kb2614), keep in mind that this little coverup was done simply to cover the butts of a couple of people, and then a couple of more people got involved and then tried to cover their own butts, and that's how this stuff happens - it just snowballs. There were no sinister directives from Washington (and in fact the White House probably never got the truth).

I've seen it happen before under different circumstances - somebody gives a false story or information to somebody above them, that somebody passes it on, then realizes it was false, and rather than cut the chain right there, confess to the higher ups that it needs to be re-evaluated, and bust the person who gave the initial false information, they decide they need to cover their butts, and so on.

It's people being petty and self-serving, all the way up to and including General Kensinger - we saw the guy play dumb and confused and use the "bad memory" gambit, but the majority of Lt. Generals I've known were sharp people. This wasn't General Halftrack from Beetle Bailey.

[mojito]

If Tillman’s death was murder, rather than an accident, there needs to be a court martial for those involved in a truly heinous act. Those found guilty would deserve the most severe punishment.

[Doe Eyes]

These guys must be stupid. Three bullet holes and they don’t know why? The M-16A2 rifle has single shot and three round burst settings (and safety). The reasonable conclusion is that the rifle was set to burst.

I think they were hoping the bullets weren't from an M-16.

[George W. Bush]

It’s sad enough already for the family. I hope no proof emerges that it’s other than a friendly fire accident. I can see from the article that the military is doing its duty to investigate. This kind of rumor back in the Vietnam era was ugly.

[W. W. SMITH]

Another possibility is a leftest peace of trash like that idiot in Iraq not liking a conservative getting so much attention deciding to put an end to him. Years from now when we hear of a leftest pol. or activist bragging about shooting Tillman we will know the truth.

[navygold1778]

Unless the so-called enemy had American-made weapons, it’s pretty easy to see the difference between an M-16 round (5.56 x 45 mm) and an AK-47 or AK-74 (7.62 x 39 mm).

They would have to re-examine Tillman’s body; this would be very sad, but very necessary. If the Army somehow objects to exhuming the body, then you know it’s a cover-up.

That’s my 2 cents. There are some very serious charges that need to be addressed.

Let’s get a full investigation and let the heads roll.

[syriacus]

What group was most angry at Tillman?
Lefties who like to say young folks are signing-up because they have no other options in life.

[verity]

I shall consider the story as pure MSM bullcrap until proved otherwise.

[syriacus]

The leftists are spinning it like mad: New Evidence Clearly Indicates Pat Tillman Was Executed

Like Ron Brown.

[joebuck]

Three to the forehead. Sounds to me like the type of wounds you get when you stick your head up from cover and catch volly fire from someone’s perimiter.

[Old Landmarks]

Yes it does.

[RipSawyer]

These guys must be stupid. Three bullet holes and they don’t know why? The M-16A2 rifle has single shot and three round burst settings (and safety). The reasonable conclusion is that the rifle was set to burst.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have never fired one, how close would the three rounds normally be grouped? Is there no tendency for the muzzle to rise after the first shot? Three rounds in the forehead is a fairly close three shot group.

[org.whodat]

They have already determine it was 223 rounds.

[kb2614]

These are Department of Defense documents, if you have another source that's better than the DoD information, please share it with us.

For people looking for conspiracies (I'm not talking about you kb2614), keep in mind that this little coverup was done simply to cover the butts of a couple of people, and then a couple of more people got involved and then tried to cover their own butts, and that's how this stuff happens - it just snowballs. There were no sinister directives from Washington (and in fact the White House probably never got the truth).

I've seen it happen before under different circumstances - somebody gives a false story or information to somebody above them, that somebody passes it on, then realizes it was false, and rather than cut the chain right there, confess to the higher ups that it needs to be re-evaluated, and bust the person who gave the initial false information, they decide they need to cover their butts, and so on.

It's people being petty and self-serving, all the way up to and including General Kensinger - we saw the guy play dumb and confused and use the "bad memory" gambit, but the majority of Lt. Generals I've known were sharp people. This wasn't General Halftrack from Beetle Bailey.


I will remain skeptical of reports coming from AP.

As for the rest of your post, I agree with it. CYA never works & tends to back fire.

[Eaker]

I have never fired one, how close would the three rounds normally be grouped? Is there no tendency for the muzzle to rise after the first shot? Three rounds in the forehead is a fairly close three shot group.

I have fired an M16 and there is almost no muzzle flip at all. Hitting s water balloon three times at ten yards before it deflated or fell off of a narrow rest would not be difficult at all.

I have shot with an E5 Reservist that I work with and am sure that he could do it even if I couldn't.