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Sagging Pants May Have Contributed To Fatal Shooting
The Indy Channel ^ | 07/30/07

Posted on 07/30/2007 11:08:32 AM PDT by Abathar

GARY, Ind. -- A teenager shot to death by an officer as he fled a burglary scene may have tried to pull up his sagging pants, causing the officer to mistake the movement for a reach for a weapon, according to newly filed court documents.

In a motion to dismiss a federal civil rights lawsuit filed by Vincent Smith Jr.'s father, the city of Gary suggests the 16-year-old was shot as he was reaching down to hoist up his drooping pants and sprint away from Officer Levi Randolph.

"Police officers have to make a lot of split-second decisions," said city attorney Donald Levinson. "The law does not say you have to wait until someone shoots at you (to act)."

The city's motion includes photographs of Smith's body, his underwear clearly riding above his jean's sagging waist, laying in the alley behind a house he was apparently burglarizing.

Randolph, who was indicted in March for the Jan. 15 shooting, faces up to eight years in prison if convicted in the killing.

The officer claims he thought Smith was reaching to pull a gun as the teen walked out the back door of the house. Randolph said he fired at Smith but missed when the teen reached toward his pants before sprinting through the backyard.

Randolph said that after Smith scaled an 8-foot fence and dropped to the ground, he turned toward the pursuing officer and again reached into his pants. Randolph fired again and struck Smith behind the left ear, killing him instantly.

In both cases, Levinson suggests in his filing that Smith was gathering up his sagging pants in anticipation of sprinting away.

Low-hanging pants that wearers must frequently hoist have become a hip-hop fashion statement popularized by rappers. Sagging pants are said to have their roots in prison culture, where inmates were often issued ill-fitting pants and belts were banned.

Douglas Hobson, an attorney for Vincent Smith Sr., said police training should better prepare officers to make split-second judgments to prevent shooting suspects who pose no threat.

"You've got to know there is a gun or something that is going to hurt someone. If these kinds of excuses justify something like that, then we've got a long way to go," he said.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; cleanunderwear; donutwatch; fashionstatement; thuglife
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Just... Can't... Work... Up... Any... Tears...

Oh well, I tried to be a good little liberal for a change, but it just ain't happening here.

1 posted on 07/30/2007 11:08:37 AM PDT by Abathar
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To: Abathar

Ditto


2 posted on 07/30/2007 11:10:16 AM PDT by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: Abathar

If you dress like a thug, don’t be surprised when the police treat you like a thug.


3 posted on 07/30/2007 11:10:22 AM PDT by dfwgator (The University of Florida - Still Championship U)
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To: Abathar

Thinning the herd.


4 posted on 07/30/2007 11:11:09 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Abathar

Gee, I feel just terrible,TERRIBLE about this.

Sometimes there’s nothing like a good belt to keep you alive. (Pun possibly intended)


5 posted on 07/30/2007 11:12:54 AM PDT by garyhope (It's World War IV, right here, right now, courtesy of Islam.)
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To: dfwgator
"Douglas Hobson, an attorney for Vincent Smith Sr., said police training should better prepare officers to make split-second judgments to prevent shooting suspects who pose no threat.

"You've got to know there is a gun or something that is going to hurt someone. If these kinds of excuses justify something like that, then we've got a long way to go," he said."

Yep, he donated to Republican causes last year, I can just tell....

6 posted on 07/30/2007 11:13:02 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: Abathar
The 'droopy-pants' / 'show-your-underware' fad has to be stupidest creation ever.

What's the point of walking around holding your pants up with one hand?

7 posted on 07/30/2007 11:13:35 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Abathar
What’s the world coming to when you can’t sprint away from a burglary without being shot at?
8 posted on 07/30/2007 11:14:05 AM PDT by Jaysun (Certified thread hijacker since 7-7-07 (by restornu and blu))
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To: dfwgator

We need to get this info out to the gangsta-rap culture quickly! It will be so much easier for the cops to know who is the bad guy and who is packing.

Tight pants = criminal with gun


9 posted on 07/30/2007 11:14:22 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel
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To: Abathar

I think being shot at once by the police would have convinced me to stop running?


10 posted on 07/30/2007 11:14:38 AM PDT by pnz1 (Pray for baby Ethan)
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To: Abathar
"Police officers have to make a lot of split-second decisions," said city attorney Donald Levinson. "The law does not say you have to wait until someone shoots at you (to act)."

No, no now - the law must be changed so that a police officer must wait until he himself has been shot before he can react.

That's the only way to avoid violating someone's civil rights, don'tcha know.
11 posted on 07/30/2007 11:15:00 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (This space left intentionally blank)
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To: AppyPappy

My thoughts exactly.


12 posted on 07/30/2007 11:15:11 AM PDT by bigfootbob
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To: TexasCajun
You got me, but I bet at least 1 cop in every city collared a perp because he tried to run away and ended up tripping with his pants around his feet. At least there is some social benefits to the dumb-ass look I guess.
13 posted on 07/30/2007 11:15:35 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: Abathar

14 posted on 07/30/2007 11:15:35 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Abathar

“The law does not say you have to wait until someone shoots at you (to act).”

Does that apply to me or only the police? There would be a whole lot fewer of these punks if open season with a bounty were declared.


17 posted on 07/30/2007 11:16:59 AM PDT by Leg Olam
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To: Abathar

“Randolph said that after Smith scaled an 8-foot fence and dropped to the ground, he turned toward the pursuing officer and again reached into his pants. Randolph fired again and struck Smith behind the left ear, killing him instantly.”

He turned toward the cop and was shot behind the ear? OooooK.


18 posted on 07/30/2007 11:19:58 AM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super Walmart for news .)
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To: Abathar

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha etc!!


19 posted on 07/30/2007 11:21:06 AM PDT by Yaelle
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To: Abathar

Maybe he was burglarizing the house so he could get money to buy a belt....


20 posted on 07/30/2007 11:21:53 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: Abathar

I’m sure the police officer feels terrible.

Having said that...

Here lies Mr. Baggy Pants (1991-2007)

He was shot dead in the street
his trousers down around his feet
He hemmed and hawed, his pants he pawed
but he couldn’t run before the cop ‘drawed’
He lies on his face now, butt to the sky
cursin’ the fact he didn’t wear button fly.
Mr. Baggy Pants is dead.


21 posted on 07/30/2007 11:21:58 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: TexasCajun
What's the point of walking around holding your pants up with one hand?

the "gangstas" that carry "mexican style" always have their hand on their "gat."
22 posted on 07/30/2007 11:22:00 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (Stop repeat offenders. Don't re-elect them!)
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To: Beagle8U
Depends on where the exit wound is. If it was behind the other ear then it’s ok, if it came out his right eye socket then there may be some questions to answer. I think if that was the case the lawyer would have been all over that point in court.
23 posted on 07/30/2007 11:22:37 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: vladimir998

Bravo!


24 posted on 07/30/2007 11:24:02 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: TexasCajun
The 'droopy-pants' / 'show-your-underware' fad has to be stupidest creation ever.

What's the point of walking around holding your pants up with one hand?

They can conceal more stolen merchandise.

25 posted on 07/30/2007 11:24:34 AM PDT by Spirochete
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To: TexasCajun

I was at the grocery store one day. One of the courtesy clerks came out to the lot to round up shopping carts. He had to do this with one hand, because the other one was holding up his droopy drawers. Me and my kids were laughing hysterically as we drove away. It was one of the dumbest things we’d ever witnessed.


26 posted on 07/30/2007 11:25:43 AM PDT by Califreak
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To: TexasCajun

Actually it comes from the bighouse. This is how “Wives” display their goods to their potential”Husbands”.If you get my drift!


27 posted on 07/30/2007 11:26:24 AM PDT by ontap (Just another backstabbing conservative)
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To: Abathar

He’s double guilty: He’s guilty of the theft and guilty for causing a death in the commission of a theft.


28 posted on 07/30/2007 11:29:36 AM PDT by bannie (The Good Guys cannot win when they're the only ones to play by the rules.)
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To: Abathar

Gary, Indiana!
What a wonderful name,
Named for Elbert Gary of judiciary fame.
Gary, Indiana, as a Shakespeare would say,
Trips along softly on the tongue this way—
Gary, Indiana, Gary Indiana, Gary, Indiana,
Let me say it once again.
Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana,
That’s the town that “knew me when.”
If you’d like to have a logical explanation
How I happened on this elegant syncopation,
I will say without a moment of hesitation
There is just one place
That can light my face.
Gary, Indiana,
Gary Indiana,
Not Louisiana, Paris, France, New York, or Rome, but—
Gary, Indiana,
Gary, Indiana,
Gary Indiana,
My home sweet home.


29 posted on 07/30/2007 11:30:42 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Bestowing kindness on the evil visits cruelty on the good.)
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To: Abathar
No threat??? the sight of one of these hiphopped feral mongrels is a clear and present danger.
30 posted on 07/30/2007 11:32:01 AM PDT by Weeedley (Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.)
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To: Abathar

“Depends on where the exit wound is. If it was behind the other ear then it’s ok, if it came out his right eye socket then there may be some questions to answer. I think if that was the case the lawyer would have been all over that point in court.”

There is still no way to shoot someone facing you behind the ear, even from the side.


31 posted on 07/30/2007 11:32:45 AM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super Walmart for news .)
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To: Abathar
Lately my neighborhood has been looking a bit more "diverse" than usual, and some of the local yout's have taken to the practice of walking down the middle of public streets, 3, 4, or 5 abreast. Sort of a defiant little "we own the street" thing where motorists have to, at least, slow down until they part and let you past.

Last weekend I came around a bend and nearly ran a whole chorus line of the baggy pants/oversize white t-shirt gang down.

I laid on my horn and locked the breaks, and one of them tripped over his pants trying to get out of the way.

BAM, face first, both hands trying to pull his pants up so he could run, no hands to break the fall...

I gotta admit, my whole day brightened up after that. Oops... I mean, that was terrible.

32 posted on 07/30/2007 11:33:15 AM PDT by Kenton (All vices in moderation. I don't want to overdo any but I don't want to skip any either.)
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To: Spirochete; TexasCajun; ontap

I heard it was so they could wear a second set of clothes underneath. That is, drop the recognizable apparel, and look “normal” after the whatever crime or malfeasance they had just participated in.


33 posted on 07/30/2007 11:33:23 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Abathar

We are fortunate that no humans were injured.


34 posted on 07/30/2007 11:34:08 AM PDT by CGTRWK
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To: Abathar
"Randolph fired again and struck Smith behind the left ear, killing him instantly.

Bad shoot.

35 posted on 07/30/2007 11:34:33 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Gary, Indiana?

What's a Hungarian?

A well-endowed man from northwestern Indiana.

36 posted on 07/30/2007 11:35:41 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys: Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat; but they know what's best for us)
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To: Abathar

I’m waiting for the saggin britches to catch on with the thong wearing chicky set.


37 posted on 07/30/2007 11:36:31 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution ? 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Beagle8U

Are you one of those guys that pretend that one can only commit suicide with a pistol by using an index finger to pull the trigger, rather than holding it backwards and using your thumb........yes?


38 posted on 07/30/2007 11:37:04 AM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: TexasCajun
The 'droopy-pants' / 'show-your-underware' fad has to be stupidest creation ever.

What's the point of walking around holding your pants up with one hand?

It emanates from the gang 'culture' which adopted it as a means of hiding weapons.

Similarly, the "hoodie" sweatshirts help to hide their identities.....it's become such a problem in the UK that not only hoods but HATS are no longer allowed in pubs because they block the view of the CCTV cams.

Great Britain Now pubs ban trilbies (Pub chain bans HATS because they obscure faces on CCTV cams)

Another nice trick....the gang-bangers put turned-out fish hooks into the inseams of their pants so when they are arrested and patted down, it will rip the hand of the arresting officer.

Such lovely people.  If they dress like a gang-banger and make the slightest, most vaguely threatening move, shoot them.

And shoot them again until your magazine is empty.

39 posted on 07/30/2007 11:38:43 AM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: ontap
Actually it comes from the bighouse. This is how “Wives” display their goods to their potential”Husbands”.If you get my drift!

I wonder how many yutes would drop this look if they knew that what they were really doing was advertising their availability for anal sex?

Maybe MTV should do a public service campaign to get this information out. (I know, like THAT'S going to happen.)

40 posted on 07/30/2007 11:39:55 AM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: Abathar

Darwin’s underpants.


41 posted on 07/30/2007 11:41:12 AM PDT by gunservative
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To: Disambiguator

At my school we tell them regularly, doesn’t seem to bother them.


42 posted on 07/30/2007 11:41:37 AM PDT by ontap (Just another backstabbing conservative)
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

The Beagle is making sounds like a criminal defense atttorney.


43 posted on 07/30/2007 11:41:50 AM PDT by verity (Muhammed and Harry Reid are Dirt Bags)
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To: Abathar
I could care less one way or another, but how can someone turn and face somebody, pull at their pants and get shot "behind the left ear".

just wondering? Otherwise I think he aimed at center of mass and jerked the trigger a little bit.

Maybe some time at the reactive target range might help. One less parasite in society...yawn...back to scanning.

44 posted on 07/30/2007 11:42:07 AM PDT by Dick Vomer (liberals suck....... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.,)
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To: Abathar

I think he would have been fine with just loose pants. The problem came with the burglary and fleeing from the police.


45 posted on 07/30/2007 11:43:00 AM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: Abathar

Good thing this cop wasn’t a border patrol agent. He’d be facing some serious time.


46 posted on 07/30/2007 11:43:08 AM PDT by andyk (Go Matt Kenseth!)
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To: ontap

I read somewhere that in prison subculture it demonstrates that your “available”.


47 posted on 07/30/2007 11:43:38 AM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: Abathar

The penalty seems harsh but fair.


48 posted on 07/30/2007 11:43:39 AM PDT by gridlock (War is Not the Answer, but Peace is Not an Option)
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To: Abathar

The penalty seems harsh but fair.


49 posted on 07/30/2007 11:43:46 AM PDT by gridlock (War is Not the Answer, but Peace is Not an Option)
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To: TexasCajun
"What's the point

I've always been told that the baggy clothing was to assist in the hiding of firearms.

50 posted on 07/30/2007 11:44:05 AM PDT by Proud_texan (Just my opinion, no relationship to reality is expressed or implied.)
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