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Kansas Republicans will demand loyalty oath
Kansas City Star ^ | August 1, 2007 | Mike Hendricks

Posted on 08/01/2007 11:24:10 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur

Over the weekend, Kansas Republican leaders formed what they’re calling a “loyalty committee,” a move that’s ticking off moderates and conservatives alike.

It is never a sign of strength when your group, country or otherwise starts imposing loyalty oaths, or so I told Kansas Republican Party Chairman Kris Kobach over the phone on Tuesday.

“That’s probably a fair criticism,” he said.

Yet, beginning next January, the state GOP will begin purging its leadership — all the way down to the precinct level — of any party official who actively supports non-Republicans for office.

“One weakness we’ve had is that on game day, a few of our leaders have gone out and supported the other team,” Kobach said. “I’m trying to basically take in two years a team that got skunked in 2006 to a winning team in 2008.”

You can see why the Kansas GOP is heading this way.

Republican moderates and conservatives have been at each other for decades. But it’s getting worse, from Kobach’s point of view. Ronald Reagan’s commandment, “Thou Shall Not Speak Ill of a Fellow Republican,” gets no respect.

Every couple of years, for instance, a group calling itself Republicans for Moore buys ads in support of 3rd District Congressman Dennis Moore, a Democrat. Then Moore goes on to beat the Republican.

In 2004, the loser was Kobach, who couldn’t even win in heavily Republican Johnson County. But this sort of thing isn’t confined to JoCo. Cross-party endorsements have been flying in other parts of the state.

More worrisome for the GOP have been the high-profile defections we saw in 2006. First, the former head of the Kansas Republican Party, Mark Parkinson, left the party to become the running mate of Democratic Gov. Kathleen Sebelius. The pair won easily.

Then former Johnson County District Attorney Paul Morrison left the GOP to run for state attorney general, trouncing the Republican incumbent, Phill Kline.

There were others, and there are bound to be more now that moderate Republicans have learned the secret to beating their conservative adversaries: Avoid a losing battle in the primary, where the most-conservative voters hold sway. Switch parties and eke it out in the general, winning the support of Democrats, independents and moderate Republicans.

As the trend accelerates, so will the number of “loyal” Republicans eager to support their party-switching friends — or so goes the logic.

Hence, the new rule (to be enforced by a new committee) aimed at dissuading public displays of affection across party lines.

“We’re not compelling anyone to make a pledge to the GOP,” said Christian Morgan, executive director of the state party. “You’ve just got to not endorse a Democrat.”

Not everyone is happy about this. Some mods are squawking. The chairman of the Kansas Democrats smugly said his party had no plans to form its own loyalty committee.

But frankly, I don’t see anything wrong with the Republicans or any other group purging themselves of turncoats. As long as it doesn’t apply to the average party member, who can switch parties at will, I say let the cleansing begin.

Only here’s the most interesting wrinkle of all. Most upset by the new rule weren’t the Republican moderates. (Hey, they’re used to being pushed around, right?).

More angry were the pro-life conservatives, the very folks who turned the Republican Party into the lovefest it is today.

Among the loudest objections, Kobach said, was that from former Kansans for Life president Tim Golba.

Golba has proudly supported pro-life Democrats for office while continuing to vote on internal GOP matters, and he thinks he ought to be able to continue doing so.

“I helped lead tons of Bible-believing Christians into the Republican Party,” Golba told me. “And what they’re saying is they don’t want us in the party anymore.”

That’s not at all what they’re saying. But party loyalty comes first, Kobach said, adding, “I think it’s a long time coming,”


TOPICS: Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: elections; kansas; kobach; loyaltycommittee; loyaltyoath; norinos; partyloyalty; republicans
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Given the split in the party I don't suppose this is all that surprising. What is surprising is the opposition he seems to be getting from the conservative wing of the party. The very people Kobach can't afford to tick off if he hopes to run for Senate in 2010.
1 posted on 08/01/2007 11:24:16 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
Yet, beginning next January, the state GOP will begin purging its leadership — all the way down to the precinct level — of any party official who actively supports non-Republicans for office.

We had to do this in my county. A certain set of Republican precinct committeemen and district captains thought it was OK to endorse dems in the election. If they want to do that as private citizens, OK. But as party officials, they are obligated under our bylaws to actively support republican candidates. If they don't they shouldn't be party officials.

When they go to the dark side, the press, of course, makes a huge deal out of it.

2 posted on 08/01/2007 11:27:52 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Non-Sequitur
They're right. No point in letting liberals invade your party, take leadership posts and county chairs and use that to elect Dims.

Besides, this is the business of the Kansas GOP. I'd feel the same way if my state party let Dim advocates into leadership positions or let them run ads for Dims.
3 posted on 08/01/2007 11:44:51 AM PDT by George W. Bush (Rudy: tough on terror, scared of Iowa, wets himself over YouTube)
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To: Non-Sequitur

I love Kobach but party loyalty should never come first. The problem is party ideology. We have to have unity in fundamental principles. We don’t. So the Kansas Republicans should recognize reality and split. We have handed power to people who do not represent the state or national party platform. That needs to stop. I would rather see people sign a commitment to conservative principles rather than a commitment to party power. If you are a liberal there is a party for you; it’s called the Democrat party.


4 posted on 08/01/2007 11:46:08 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Johnson County is still a Republican stronghold, yet the 3rd Congressional District includes Wyandotte County which is a “perpetual” RAT infested chunk of real estate. Not all of us are monolithic voters. There was an effort in redistricting the 3rd. It never happened. As the addage goes “Born Democrat in Wyandotte County, vote Democrat in Wyandotte County.” Come early and vote often. Not to mention, if your name ends in “ski” etc. you’ve got a better chance of getting a city or county job. I had to keep my Republican affilation hushed to get a summer job in the early 70’s on the Kansas Highway Dept while attending college. Just tellin’ it like it is folks. The Great Oz Has Spoken


5 posted on 08/01/2007 12:02:11 PM PDT by WyCoKsRepublican
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To: Non-Sequitur

Kobach is a good guy and what the heck, why not try this? Since I hail from the area, I know how bad the interparty backstabbing can be. While I find that Republican liberals/country clubbers from KS (Johnson County) to be the biggest backstabbers, both sides have been guilty.


6 posted on 08/01/2007 12:11:35 PM PDT by KC_Conspirator
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To: George W. Bush
Besides, this is the business of the Kansas GOP. I'd feel the same way if my state party let Dim advocates into leadership positions or let them run ads for Dims.

I am in the Kansas GOP. And I can understand the need for loyalty among those recognized as leaders of the party, though that should not require an oath for them to do the right thing. I find it mildly surprising that the most opposition seems to be coming from the wing of the party you would least expect defections from.

7 posted on 08/01/2007 12:14:07 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

ok if we call it something other than “loyalty oath” it would be palatable.

You can’t have ANYONE leading the party who is fighting for an opposing candidate.

the HONEST thing to do is to resign and campaign for the other person.


8 posted on 08/01/2007 12:16:11 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: WyCoKsRepublican
There was an effort in redistricting the 3rd. It never happened.

I think that they gave up redistricting the 3rd to keep a GOP majority in the 2nd. Thanks to Foley, that didn't make enough of a difference.

Democrats win because they figured out how to beat the Republicans. Avoid a primary fight. Sew up the independents. Carve off the GOP moderates. And if you're Nancy Boyda have your opponent get caught in a lie about Mark Foley.

9 posted on 08/01/2007 12:18:52 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

One of the funnier vignettes in Catch-22... The Loyalty Oath.


10 posted on 08/01/2007 12:19:04 PM PDT by steveyp
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To: Non-Sequitur

Haven’t heard the term “loyalty oath” in quite a while. I usually associate it with one of my favorite M.A.S.H. scenes:

Col Flagg, investigating Sidney Friedman, discovers that the Army psychiatrist hasn’t signed his loyalty oath. Pierce and Hunnicutt congratulate Friedman as possibly having found a way to be sent home and get out of the Army. Flagg interjects “You think you’re smart, Friedman. Well, you’re dumb, very dumb...and you’ve met your match!”


11 posted on 08/01/2007 12:22:20 PM PDT by jimfree (Freep and ye shall find.)
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To: longtermmemmory
You can’t have ANYONE leading the party who is fighting for an opposing candidate.
the HONEST thing to do is to resign and campaign for the other person.

I agree completely. Regardless of your personal opinions, if you've accepted a position of leadership in the party then you are duty bound to support the party's candidates. Period. If you can't then you shouldn't be in that position of leadership to begin with. Still, I think that there were better ways to go about doing it than this. Regardless, the people Kris seems to be alienating the most are the ones he will need the most come 2010.

12 posted on 08/01/2007 12:24:27 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur; Clintonfatigued; BlackElk; AuH2ORepublican; Kuksool; Clemenza; JohnnyZ

What do you expect when you have stunts that are pulled by the likes of Paul Morrison and the traitor Mark Parkinson, the former Chairman of the state party who sold his soul to Kathleen Gilligan-Sebelius ?

However, saying that, I can see the downside of compelling Conservatives to have to support liberal RINOs that do nothing to further the Conservative agenda, the only reason for the GOP to exist.


13 posted on 08/01/2007 12:24:49 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: Non-Sequitur

I think the real estate problem caused Ryun more problems than the Foley issue. What is clear is that Boyda is incompetent since taking office and is a bonafide moonbat.


14 posted on 08/01/2007 12:27:51 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: fieldmarshaldj
What do you expect when you have stunts that are pulled by the likes of Paul Morrison and the traitor Mark Parkinson, the former Chairman of the state party who sold his soul to Kathleen Gilligan-Sebelius ?

Hell yeah. Let's have a coup.

However, saying that, I can see the downside of compelling Conservatives to have to support liberal RINOs that do nothing to further the Conservative agenda, the only reason for the GOP to exist.

So you're all for dumping party loyalty at one end of the political spectrum but damn those souls to hell who dare do it at the other end? Why am I not surprised?

15 posted on 08/01/2007 12:30:22 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
I find it mildly surprising that the most opposition seems to be coming from the wing of the party you would least expect defections from.

They might fear a Rudi nomination when they would then be compelled to vote for him and endorse him, etc. Or conservatives in some parts of the state may feel their prospects of getting a Blue Dog elected that favors gun rights over a local RINO might be used against them.

Loyalty oaths of this type really are generally a suspect notion. But I think the line is pretty carefully drawn. Still, this is you guys' business, not subject to Cornhusker approval from moi. The NE GOP has plenty of its own problems. Like the membership of Hagel.
16 posted on 08/01/2007 12:32:35 PM PDT by George W. Bush (Rudy: tough on terror, scared of Iowa, wets himself over YouTube)
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To: Non-Sequitur

The question is...will we stop this for 2008.

Kansans do not support Boyda and Moore’s liberalism, but they keep squeaking by due to this strategy.

It has to end.


17 posted on 08/01/2007 12:33:08 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Dick Cheney should have gone hunting with Hillary." -- Yakov Smirnoff)
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To: Non-Sequitur

This loyalty thing may help, but it can only go so far.


18 posted on 08/01/2007 12:33:31 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Dick Cheney should have gone hunting with Hillary." -- Yakov Smirnoff)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Yeah, how clumsy of me to forget if Allende were Governor, you'd be supporting him to the hilt. ;-)

"So you're all for dumping party loyalty at one end of the political spectrum but damn those souls to hell who dare do it at the other end?"

Easy, because I just said there is no reason for the Republican party to exist if it supports liberal candidates and causes. There's already a Democrat party for that.

19 posted on 08/01/2007 12:40:56 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: fieldmarshaldj
I think the real estate problem caused Ryun more problems than the Foley issue.

That townhouse was bought in 2000. It hadn't made a difference in 2002 or 2004. On the other hand, last year Ryun was stupid enough to tell his district that he barely knew Foley and didn't even know he lived across the street from him. Then it turns out that he was hosting fund raisers with him in that very townhouse neighborhood. People out here take a dim view towards being lied to.

What is clear is that Boyda is incompetent since taking office and is a bonafide moonbat.

If incompetence was a bar to re-election we'd depopulate the House and the Senate ever couple of years. But a moonbat she may be, she'll still probably beat Ryun like a drum again if he's the GOP nominee after the bitter primary that's shaping up. Kobach needs to take matters in hand and unite everyone around a third candidate.

20 posted on 08/01/2007 12:41:38 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur; All

If a right to life leader has a need to support a democrat in a particular year as a leader of THAT organization then they simply should not be in a leadership position of the republican party. It is that simple.

Party leadership is for the party, NOT personal political power. Ticket splitting when you are a republican party leader is a blatent form of personal power.


21 posted on 08/01/2007 12:42:10 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: rwfromkansas

Boyda has only squeaked by once. That problem will be remedied next year.


22 posted on 08/01/2007 12:42:15 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: George W. Bush

Bump


23 posted on 08/01/2007 12:46:42 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Non-Sequitur

The townhouse issue didn’t come to the fore until this past election, and it just simply looked bad. The Foley thing was simply absurd, with the rodents making him out to be some sort of boogeyman. They have how many perverts in Congress and this guy, who wasn’t even guilty of criminal wrongdoing, all of a sudden was worse than a homocidal maniac like Ted Kennedy ? Gimme a break !

I’d prefer another candidate to run against Boyda, but if the establishment drags a pro-abort liberal into the race, such as Lynn Jenkins, that’s going to make Ryun look far more palatable. Boyda looks infinitely beatable at this point. That’s not a moonbat seat, and if she had any sense, she’d vote with that in mind.


24 posted on 08/01/2007 12:48:17 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: rwfromkansas
The question is...will we stop this for 2008.

I'd like to say we would, but I don't see Kris Kobach as the leader to bring that about. After 2004 he has no credibility among the moderate wing, and this seems to be annoying the conservative wing.

Kris wants to be Senator. The only reason he went after the leadership position is to line up support for 2010, and the only election he has to strut his stuff in is 2008. So look at what's on the plate. No major state offices. Roberts is a lock for re-election in the Senate. Unless Moore runs against Roberts, he has to be considered a lock for the re-election in the 3rd district. The only races left with any visibility are Kansas 2nd Congressional and the Johnson County DA. Phill Kline will run again and if he's the candidate in the general then he's dead meat. He lost Johnson County by a 2:1 margin last year. Boyda will be vulnerable in the 2nd, but a bitter primary will weaken the chances of getting that back. The party leader has to show some leadership to unite the party in those two races. I don't think Kris can do that.

25 posted on 08/01/2007 12:53:19 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: rwfromkansas
This loyalty thing may help, but it can only go so far.

If nothing else, we have to stop having party leaders publicly supporting opposing party candidates. We won't get rid of "Republicans for Moore" but we can prevent Republican committemen from putting their name on it.

26 posted on 08/01/2007 12:55:52 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
Boyda has only squeaked by once. That problem will be remedied next year.

Gonna send in the troops and overthrow her?

27 posted on 08/01/2007 12:57:42 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
I’d prefer another candidate to run against Boyda, but if the establishment drags a pro-abort liberal into the race, such as Lynn Jenkins, that’s going to make Ryun look far more palatable. Boyda looks infinitely beatable at this point. That’s not a moonbat seat, and if she had any sense, she’d vote with that in mind.

See, that's the difference between you and me. I'd rather see a Republican in there than Boyda, even if I don't agree with them on every single issue. You'd prefer to see Boyda re-elected rather than a Republican that does not agree with you on abortion 110%. Which is why I'm convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that you would vote for Hillary Clinton if you were sure she was anti-abortion enough.

28 posted on 08/01/2007 1:06:41 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: lagamorph

Bump


29 posted on 08/01/2007 1:09:45 PM PDT by Free State Four
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To: Non-Sequitur

Gonna continue to make an ass of yourself all over this thread, or do you want a serious conversation ? Your choice.


30 posted on 08/01/2007 1:20:59 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: Non-Sequitur

The difference between you and me is that I support and prefer Conservative candidates, I have no use for liberal phonies who wrap themselves in a Republican cloak and berate Conservatives for not supporting them.

After all, if you have two pro-aborts for candidates, where’s the CHOICE ?

Oh, and btw, my preeminent issue is the illegal invasion, thank you. And I don’t vote for criminal rodents like Evita Rodham, thank you, again.


31 posted on 08/01/2007 1:25:28 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: fieldmarshaldj
Gonna continue to make an ass of yourself all over this thread, or do you want a serious conversation ? Your choice.

I'm having a serious conversation on this thread with several people. You don't seem to be interested.

32 posted on 08/01/2007 1:35:23 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
The difference between you and me is that I support and prefer Conservative candidates, I have no use for liberal phonies who wrap themselves in a Republican cloak and berate Conservatives for not supporting them.

No. You will support only candidates who agree with you completely on one single issue. Any candidate who does not, regardless on their positions in all other areas, will not get your support. To you, conservatism has been boiled down to one issue and one issue alone, and you would rather see a Democrat win that someone who fails your litimus test by a fraction of an inch. You had the nerve to quote Reagan earlier? Well wasn't he the one who said something to the effect that a candidate that differs from his position on 5 percent of the issues still agrees with him on 95 percent? And I happen to believe with him that 95% is better than nothing. Which is where you and I disagree, and why I'm still firmly convinced that if Hillary only hewed to your line on abortion, then you'd be out there voting for her.

33 posted on 08/01/2007 1:46:09 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

You seem to just want to bait me, as your responses have been overtly hostile and heavily sarcastic. If you hadn’t noticed, I didn’t take a definitive position on the loyalty oath. I don’t believe that would necessarily solve the problem, since what would you do if they violated it ? Can’t put ‘em in prison or any other really serious sanction (save perhaps a monetary one). Plus, I wouldn’t want to apply sanctions in the instance of a RINO being nominated and they being worse than the rodent (such as, for example, the case of the 1990 Governor’s race between RINO Gov. Mike Hayden and DINO Joan Finney).


34 posted on 08/01/2007 1:56:32 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: Non-Sequitur

they should borrow the Viking Kitties.


35 posted on 08/01/2007 2:01:26 PM PDT by balch3
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To: Non-Sequitur

Are you blind or just stupid ? You repeated your canned copy & paste talking points crapola that you spew at me and BlackElk and conveniently delete and ignore where I said I have more than one issue. The issue of abortion is merely a test of telling me whether a candidate has a basic shred of respect for humanity or not. If they don’t, it tells me all I need to know about their character. As for your obsession with Evita, I’ve already addressed that, too, but I expect your next robotic response to include her name once more since you’ve got nothing else in your arsenal of wit. Like I said, either be intellectually honest or stop wasting my time.


36 posted on 08/01/2007 2:03:38 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: balch3
they should borrow the Viking Kitties.

They'll be here September 23rd for the Chief's opener.

37 posted on 08/01/2007 2:18:38 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
You repeated your canned copy & paste talking points crapola that you spew at me and BlackElk and conveniently delete and ignore where I said I have more than one issue. The issue of abortion is merely a test of telling me whether a candidate has a basic shred of respect for humanity or not. If they don’t, it tells me all I need to know about their character.

Like I said. One issue. The be-all and end-all of conservative poltics, so far as you are concerned, boils down to that. Big government, taxes, spending, defence, foreign policy, the Constitution, all other positions are meaningless unless the candidate in question completely meets your line on that one issue, and I mean lock-step, don't-deviate-from-the-line-by-a-fraction-of-an-inch compliance. And if they don't meet that 110% test, regardless of their position on every single other issue, well they're a RINO and you'd rather see the opposition win. It's people like you who put Moore in office and who will keep Boyda in Washington, and who may send Sebelius to the Senate in 2010. Ninty-nine percent of the loaf isn't good enough, it's 100% or nothing. Well that insufferable sense of superiority may keep you warm at night, but it's also what keeps the Democrats winning in this state and a whole lot of others besides. And if enough of these more moderate Democrats are elected and they manage to wrest their party away from their looney left wing then watch out.

38 posted on 08/01/2007 2:37:37 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur; BlackElk
"Like I said."

Copy and paste.

"but it's also what keeps the Democrats winning in this state and a whole lot of others besides."

KS has consistently demonstrated since 1966 that it generally prefers a member of the opposite political party in the Governor's mansion. There hasn't been a Conservative Republican Governor elected since 1964. When we have prime opportunities to elevate them, as we did in 2002, we get liberal RINO traitor pukes ready to knife them and elect rodentry Socialist carpetbaggers like Gilligan of Ohio who dares to use the name of a respected and deceased Republican Congressman who is as far afield from her as can be.

"And if enough of these more moderate Democrats are elected"

There hasn't been one elected since Finney, and the rodents hated her and ran her out of office after one term. This current Gov is a moonbat, so is Boyda, and so is Moore and Dr. Death Tiller's #1 protector, Morrison. And as for your laughable comment that "people like me" put Moore in office, I supported Vince Snowbarger. It was RINOs like you who turned that superb Congressman and former legislative leader out of office, not us Conservatives. Ditto turning out another fine man by the name of Phill Kline. But, hey, don't let a little thing like intellectual honesty get in the way of a silly diatribe.

39 posted on 08/01/2007 2:52:58 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: fieldmarshaldj
There hasn't been a Conservative Republican Governor elected since 1964.

By your definition, and we know what that definition is. Or perhaps you can tell us what it was, exactly, that made Bill Avery, Bob Bennett, and Mike Hayden RINOs while leaving abortion out of it?

When we have prime opportunities to elevate them, as we did in 2002...

I know why I voted for him, but what was it, exactly, that convinced you that Tim Shallenberger was a rock-solid conservative? And if his views on abortion differed had from your's, which of his primary opponents would you have voted for and why?

...rodentry Socialist carpetbaggers like Gilligan of Ohio who dares to use the name of a respected and deceased Republican Congressman who is as far afield from her as can be.

She's lived here for 33 years so I think you can drop the 'carpetbagger' label. And I think she got her name from her husband.

And as for your laughable comment that "people like me" put Moore in office, I supported Vince Snowbarger.

And a whole lot of good that did you, all the way from Tennessee. But it was people like you, single issue Republicans from the moderate end of the party, who stayed home or defected that put Moore in. The same kind of people who stayed home when Phill ran two years later. And then it was the single-issue Republicans from the opposite end who sat out the Taff-Moore race. And the rest is history. And oh yes, there are people just like you, people who make abortion the single deciding factor in their support for a candidate as well. Those are the ones who won't vote for an abortion opponent regardless of their other political beliefs. They're no different in their way than you are in your's.

It was RINOs like you who turned that superb Congressman and former legislative leader out of office, not us Conservatives.

Shows what you know. I voted for Vince twice.

Ditto turning out another fine man by the name of Phill Kline.

I keep telling you, have Phill come out there and run for something if you're so enamored with him. He'll be free in about 17 months.

40 posted on 08/01/2007 4:10:54 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
How would you know? The press has been silent on her. I doubt one person in a hundred knows she is a Pelosi clone. Almost all would think her a solid conservative.
No, this is a Republican race to lose and they are going all out not to get their message out.
41 posted on 08/01/2007 4:15:54 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: Huntress

Kansas ping


42 posted on 08/01/2007 8:04:00 PM PDT by Mercat
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To: Non-Sequitur; BlackElk
"By your definition, and we know what that definition is."

Remember, by your definition, keeping a Communist/Soviet puppet regime in power is "Conservative." "My" definition is one shared by most Conservatives. ;-)

"Or perhaps you can tell us what it was, exactly, that made Bill Avery, Bob Bennett, and Mike Hayden RINOs while leaving abortion out of it?"

Avery was not included. He was seemingly the last Conservative Republican. As for Bennett, Hayden & Graves, in the case of Bennett, he was clearly the Establishment choice and was to the left of his DINO opponent, Vern Miller. Bennett couldn't even manage to win reelection in 1978 in the heavily anti-Carter year, even as the GOP won back the legislature, held the Senate seat and knocked off a 'Rat incumbent in the 2nd. I don't know what Bennett's position on abortion was. Hayden was also a similar Establishment disappointment, and like Bennett, not only couldn't win reelection, but lost the House of Reps to the Dems, real brilliant. To prove his bonafides, he works as a department head for Gilligan-Sebelius. Oh, and yes, he was a prominent pro-abort. Less than useless. Graves was also another pro-abort whose "popularity" he used to halt a Conservative from succeeding him. As I wrote in an analysis last year, the RINO as a Governor almost uniformily fails to deliver a Republican successor no matter how ostensibly "popular" they are (and in what few instances that they do, it's usually because of a flawed Dem opponent). Of course, I predict, as usual, you will consider Bennett/Hayden/Graves "giants" instead of midgets.

"I know why I voted for him, but what was it, exactly, that convinced you that Tim Shallenberger was a rock-solid conservative? And if his views on abortion differed had from your's, which of his primary opponents would you have voted for and why?"

Shallenburger was the only logical choice. Too bad Graves and his RINOs sandbagged him. Can't let those filthy Conservatives win, y'know. They might actually accomplish something positive.

"She's lived here for 33 years so I think you can drop the 'carpetbagger' label. And I think she got her name from her husband."

33 years, huh ? Interesting, since that happens to be the year that her daddy, the worst Governor of Ohio in the last 100 years, was unceremoniously dumped for reelection. Interesting, too, that she just happened to marry the dunce son of a respected Conservative GOP former Congressman. But since Keith Sebelius was deceased, there was no way he could give his opinion on his Socialist daughter-in-law using the name to get herself elected to statewide office.

"But it was people like you, single issue Republicans from the moderate end of the party, who stayed home or defected that put Moore in."

Uh-uh, you can't have it both ways. Now YOU have the nerve to criticize your fellow pro-aborters for bringing down Snowbarger ?!? Tsk tsk.

"The same kind of people who stayed home when Phill ran two years later. And then it was the single-issue Republicans from the opposite end who sat out the Taff-Moore race."

You should be praising Conservatives for not voting for the RINO Taff, or did you forget he was later sentenced to prison ? It was also alleged that Taff was closeted gay. Yeah, he would've been a real bright star in Congress as a Republican. Of course, were he a rodent, all would be forgiven.

"And oh yes, there are people just like you, people who make abortion the single deciding factor in their support for a candidate as well. Those are the ones who won't vote for an abortion opponent regardless of their other political beliefs. They're no different in their way than you are in your's."

Nope, because one is voting based on basic morality and decency, the other on the polar opposite. Like I said, while other issues are important, if a candidate fails this basic test, it proves they have no moral grounding and can compromise away anything and everything else. Something you fail to grasp.

43 posted on 08/02/2007 7:38:14 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: IrishCatholic

Guess I’m the one person in 100. I knew she was a moonbat going in, and with her walking out on “positive” testimony on Iraq proved it beyond question.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1873974/posts


44 posted on 08/02/2007 7:40:51 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: Non-Sequitur
Whats the problem with this? If you call yourself a Republican, yet endorse Democrats, you have no business whatsoever in a party leadership position. Get the hell out.
45 posted on 08/02/2007 7:52:55 AM PDT by DesScorp
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To: Non-Sequitur

Call me naive, but I think I’d rather see politicians take an oath of loyalty to their constituents and the law rather than to their parties. Oh well.


46 posted on 08/02/2007 8:19:11 AM PDT by stormer
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To: DesScorp
If you call yourself a Republican, yet endorse Democrats, you have no business whatsoever in a party leadership position.

I think that should be a given without even needing an oath. But it seems that some members of the the more social conservative wing of the party don't agree and want to be able to publicly support a Democrat if that candidate meets their litmus test. I agree with you and think that they're wrong.

47 posted on 08/02/2007 12:29:49 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: stormer
Call me naive, but I think I’d rather see politicians take an oath of loyalty to their constituents and the law rather than to their parties. Oh well.

Well they take an oath to uphold the Constitution, for all the good that's done us.

48 posted on 08/02/2007 12:30:51 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
Bennett couldn't even manage to win reelection in 1978 in the heavily anti-Carter year, even as the GOP won back the legislature, held the Senate seat and knocked off a 'Rat incumbent in the 2nd...

Avery lost to Docking, a Democrat. And later lost to Dole, who must have been the Rat in the race since you claim Avery was the conservative. But you've avoided the original question entirely. What was it that made Bennett and Hayden RINOs?

Shallenburger was the only logical choice. Too bad Graves and his RINOs sandbagged him. Can't let those filthy Conservatives win, y'know. They might actually accomplish something positive.

That's not what I asked. What was it, exactly, that made Tim the conservative. And had he not shared your exact position on abortion, which of the other candidates would you have supported?

You should be praising Conservatives for not voting for the RINO Taff, or did you forget he was later sentenced to prison ?

Actually that problem came after his second campaign, the one against Kobach. Had the more conservative element of the party voted for him the first time around then he might well have won and the situation might not have occured. But I keep forgetting. In your view better a Democrat in the office than someone who doesn't share your exact views on abortion.

Nope, because one is voting based on basic morality and decency, the other on the polar opposite. Like I said, while other issues are important, if a candidate fails this basic test, it proves they have no moral grounding and can compromise away anything and everything else. Something you fail to grasp.

I grasp it very well, because you've made it clear over and over again. Unless the candidate is strictly in line with your views on a single issue, abortion, then you dismiss them as a Rino and would rather have a Democrat in the office. Something you refuse to admit.

49 posted on 08/02/2007 2:37:41 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
"Avery lost to Docking, a Democrat. And later lost to Dole, who must have been the Rat in the race since you claim Avery was the conservative."

Where do you come up with that ? A Republican primary contest need not always be made up of two folks of different ideological stripes. Both Avery and Dole were from the more Conservative side, at least Socially, although Avery was vulnerable on the issue that cost him reelection in '66, and that's taxes. Bob Docking got to the right of him on taxes.

"What was it that made Bennett and Hayden RINOs?"

I already answered.

"What was it, exactly, that made Tim the conservative."

His support of Conservative issues.

"And had he not shared your exact position on abortion, which of the other candidates would you have supported?"

Neither of the other main primary candidates, Kerr or Knight, were Conservatives.

"In your view better a Democrat in the office than someone who doesn't share your exact views on abortion."

No, what you don't get is that a liberal Republican in office does double harm, both to the party itself, and to Conservatism. It advances neither, and helps the Democrat party. If you're going to elect a liberal, better it be a rodent, let them inflict the harm and pay for it at the ballot box at the next election when a real Conservative Republican can win. Ya dig ?

50 posted on 08/02/2007 3:21:36 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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