Jury convicts Marine of murder [Sgt. Lawrence Hutchins / Hamdania]

North County Times ^ | August 2, 2007 | TERI FIGUEROA

[Scotsman will be Free]

Wrong. A typical monday morning in a county district court would have 40 to 60 DUI defendants all requesting a jury trial. That court might be able to do 2 or 3 that week. The next monday there would be 40 to 60 more defendants all requesting jury trials, and they still would have had to deal with the previous week’s leftovers.
Prosecutor had a choice. Try a couple of them and take plea bargains on the rest or try a couple of them and dismiss the rest. This had nothing to do with quality of evidence, but the speedy trial rule.
Another poster has already pointed out the other reasons that plea bargains can be good.

[jude24]

do you know anything about minimum sentencing requirements on these charges? The North County Times article made it sound like life on the Conspiracy charge.

Conspiracy is punishable under the UCMJ Art. 81 up to the same maximum penalty for the substantive crime (in this case, murder). See Manual Courts Martial at IV-6. I don't believe conspiracy has a mandatory minimum (murder, however, requires life with a possibility of parole as a mandatory minimum.)

[EndWelfareToday]

The closest modern parallel would be canon lawyers or theologians, NOT civil or criminal lawyers.

Yeah... Right!

Whatever helps you cope.

[jude24]

You're speaking out of ignorance. Go away.

I don't recall asking your opinion anyway.

[alarm rider]

Amen brother, Amen.

[RedRover]

Sorry if I missed this above, but the jury striking the premeditation element from the verdict amounts to a conviction of second degree murder. Is that correct? I’m not clear why the jury might have struck premeditation when it was planned, not a spontaneous act.

[bluetone006]

I would also assuming they are not all REMF’s.

[EndWelfareToday]

Sorry Scotsman will be Free but your system is flawed. You want to end crime? Imprison those that violate the law and do not let them out of prison until the full extent of their sentence is completed. If (referencing your analogy) enough drunkards are behind bars they won't be on the streets getting busted a second, third, fourth, fi..... time and they won't be killing anyone either.
Defense attorneys keep negotiating plea bargains that get their diseased clients released early and the lazy prosecutors keep agreeing to the deals while the corrupt judges pervert everything by usurping the will of the people and wallah... we are now living in a society where personal responsibility means nothing to anyone but those of us that accept it.

Lawyers corrupt and cloud everything they get their grubby little hands into. There is no longer any absolutes in the mind of an attorney. They ALLLLLLL live in the gray areas and those that suffer are those of us that live good, clean, wholesome lives.
If prosecutors have the "evidence" to convict then convict. There was a time when hearsay and bought off witnesses were not allowed in a court of law. Now we have people selling their friends and family down the river to spare themselves the anguish of also being prosecuted for trumped up charges. It's like he that sells out (accepts the payment of freedom for himself) first survives. The rest of can go straight to jail.

Attorneys are wicked and evil people as a whole. Very few would I ever consider having as a friend.
Heck, anyone want to know how screwed up the legal profession is? Just look at Capitol Hill. Darn near every single Representative and Senator is an attorney.

Case closed!!!

[jude24]

Sorry if I missed this above, but the jury striking the premeditation element from the verdict amounts to a conviction of second degree murder. Is that correct?

No. First of all, there is no "first degree" and "second degree" murder in the UCMJ. There only is murder and manslaughter.

What the jury found was that Sgt. Hutchins did not kill the victim, but he did agree to help the commission of the murder and performed at least one overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

[bluetone006]

But I bet there are.

[Girlene]

They struck PREmeditated murder because they wanted to give him a chance out of prison. Jude, what is the minimum for unpremeditated murder? You made it sound like life as a minimum. What is life?

From the article...Appealing for sympathy from the jurors could knock years off Hutchins' prison sentence.

This is confusing at best.

[Girlene]

Certainly if Bush can pardon Libby then he can pardon Sgt Hutchins.

That would be a true statement.

[jude24]

I would also assuming they are not all REMF’s.

The article noted that the jury was entirely made of Iraq vets. I would assume based on that that at least some of the jury was combat vets.

[jude24]

You made it sound like life as a minimum.

For murder, the crime for which Sgt. Hutchins was acquitted. Sgt. Hutchins was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder, which carries the same maximum penalty that murder does (but no minimum).

[BIGLOOK]

Broken arrow.......

[RedRover]

So Hutchins was convicted for participating in a murder but not for the act of murder? (Sorry I’m slow.)

[Girlene]

But he received a conviction of UNpremeditated murder. What is the minimum on that? Nothing to life? What about the other charges? Any minimums on obstruction of justice, larceny, etc.? IOW, is his sentence basically in the hands of the jurors at this point? Can they sentence him at their determination, but have no restrictions on a minimum for the whole kit and kaboodle?

[bluetone006]

I agree. Better yet execute anyone driving under the influence. One or two of those and suddenly the courts will be empty. Along with the morgues. Make the bar for conviction really high, don’t allow testimony for reduced sentences, don’t allow plea bargains, and crucify those that are convicted. Crime rates, the associated anguish for everyone, especially the innocent, and costs would drop 95% in six months.

[jude24]

There was a time when hearsay and bought off witnesses were not allowed in a court of law.

There never has been a time when hearsay was less admissible.

Now we have people selling their friends and family down the river to spare themselves the anguish of also being prosecuted for trumped up charges. It's like he that sells out (accepts the payment of freedom for himself) first survives. The rest of can go straight to jail.

The phrase you're looking for is "stop snitching." It's a reprehensible movement in our inner cities.

Attorneys are wicked and evil people as a whole. Very few would I ever consider having as a friend.

I'm guessing you have very little actual interaction with lawyers. Your tune would certainly change if you ever actually needed one.

[Sandy]

For murder, the crime for which Sgt. Hutchins was acquitted. Sgt. Hutchins was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder

The article says he was convicted of conspiracy *and* second-degree murder. You're saying this article is wrong?