Posted on 08/02/2007 6:45:04 PM PDT by DogByte6RER
FReep This Poll!
Actual poll question:
Do you support the murder conviction of squad leader Sgt. Lawrence Hutchins in the Hamdania case?
Yes
No, too strong
No, too lenient
Go to the North County Times/The Californian link provided on this FR post.
Scroll down a bit and look for the poll on the right hand side.
Vote your choice.
(Excerpt) Read more at nctimes.com ...
Yes (7 Votes, 29%)
No, too strong (16 Votes, 67%)
No, too lenient (1 Votes, 4%)
God Bless the Marines, soldiers, sailors and airmen who serve America and who put themselves in harms way.
Related news article:
“Jury convicts Marine of murder”
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/08/02/news/top_stories/1_01_458_1_07.txt
Voted and BTTT.
“Charging Kurtz with murder in this place is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500.”
Apocalypse Now
Ping!
In uniform or out, a crime is a crime.
FREEP THIS POLL ***PING!*** FRmail me if you want to be added or removed from the Fearless Poll-Freeping Freepers Ping list. And be sure to ping me to any polls that need Freepin', if I miss them. (looks like a medium volume list) (gordongekko909, founder of the pinglist, stays on the list until his ghost signs up for the list)
No, it’s a miscarriage of justice?
Moral relativism raises it's ugly head once more.
Know any good lawyer jokes?
That's a trick question. Everyone knows there is no such thing as a good lawyer.
If you are familiar with the UCMJ, it is very clear about a soldiers conduct. It does not discern between combat and non-combat. I have heard no implication he did not get a fair trial.
Hopefully Sgt. Hutchins will be released for time already served and that the panel didn’t convict him of premeditated murder for that reason.
Regardless of guilt or innocence to this particular Marine, I just know that this does not work well for recruitment. A young man or woman hearing the news that a Marine or and of our Military has been found guilty of murder while fighting in Iraq or any other country they are in, would make that potential recruit to rethink signing up because something like this could happen to them.
Nothing like fighting a PC War.
Absolute bullshit
ZERO ballistic evidence
ZERO outside witness testimony
ZERO identification of the body with 3 different stories of how the alleged victim was previously injured, NONE of which matched the body received
3 Marines who previously pleade out in the case came forward in Sgt Hutchin’s case and TOLD THE JURY that NCIS coerced their testimony!!!
I’m no lawyer and wasn’t at the court-martial but the Judge did not allow testimony as to the identity of the victim. They’re not even sure who was killed and it was contended by the defense that he was an insurgent.
PING
Voted, no too strong.
Just voted.....84% NO, TOO STRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He had been identified as Hashim Ibrahim Awad, 52, but the name was dropped after defense attorneys contended the identity was not conclusive.
Prosecutors said squad members tried to cover up the killing by planting a shovel and AK-47 by his body to make it look like he was an insurgent planting a bomb.
Several witnesses testified the plot was born out of frustration after suspected insurgents kept evading prosecution.
The Iraqi may not have been innocent, but maybe he was. In the fog of war I could easily be convinced to side with the Sgt, but this was not the fog of war. It was not the soldiers place to be his judge and jury. Frustration is not a rationalization to kill.
He was found guilty by a jury of his peers.
Just Asking... wrote on Aug 2, 2007 3:03 PM: " A simple question: Did Hutchins demonstrate the Marine Corps values? Honor: requires each Marine to exemplify the ultimate standard in ethical and moral conduct. Courage: The moral strength, the will to heed the inner voice of conscience, the will to do what is right regardless of the conduct of others. Committment: combination of (1) selfless determination and (2) a relentless dedication to excellence. "These three values make up the bedrock of the character of each individual Marine. They are the foundation of his Corps. These three values, handed down from generation to generation, have made U.S. Marines the Warrior Elite. The U.S. Marine Corps: the most respected and revered fighting force on earth." "Seems a lot of people want to throw that away
I don’t dispute he was found guilty by a jury of his peers, he was.
I personally believe not all the evidence was allowed because they are not even sure of the identity of the victim. A jury should be shown all the evidence and the NCIS did not have all the evidence because they botched the investigation.
Actually, no, alot of people don’t want to throw that away. What shouldn’t be thrown away are the lives of these Marines and the brothers in arms that were saved by their actions.
You are dismissed to go stick your head back in the sand.
This Marine and all the Marines in this case were judged by a jury of Marine Iraq veterans. That should indicate how they feel about it. When something like this happens it hurts all Marines, Soldiers, Etc. and hampers the ability of the services to do their job.
No one takes it lightly. Not now, not in Viet Nam, not in Korea, not in WWII or any other conflict. This type of thing has been a problem since there have been conflicts. The Romans had trials and punishment over the same thing.
Honor and Integrity. When I was in the military, we were taught to defend them with our lives. I hope for the Sgt's sake there are mitigating circumstances and they come out in the appeal. But I have my doubts.....
The background is important - the alleged victim apparently had first-hand knowledge of terrorist attacks in Hamdania and may have been a prior participant. The rules of engagement (that are often too rigid) coupled with the unconventional war that the troops are fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan demand leniency.
Here are your mitigating circumstances:
http://home.surfree.com/~bgc883/id6.html
http://news.google.com/nwshp?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wn&q=ied%20explosion
My treatment of POWs was far from humane or legal. If I had been caught I would have spent some time.
Indeed.
Latest results:
Yes (16 Votes, 12%)
No, too strong (118 Votes, 86%)
No, too lenient (3 Votes, 2%)
In my opinion using the methods of the NCIS any Marine in any unit in Iraq could be convicted of almost anything. All they did to make this case was lock everyone up until someone said what they wanted said.
No, it is not. In your previous posts on this thread you have used these terms; "trial" and "jury".
If you are familiar with the UCMJ.
Well, I'm aware of this; the UCMJ does not make it a point to use civil or criminal law words. So I will afford you a degree of respect and not question your knowledge of anything.
Well said, Smooth. People who haven’t walked a mile in the shoes of a Marine or soldier would be doing themselves a favor to refrain from criticizing those who have put their lives on the line for our country. It’s easy for those looking in to have all the supposed answers.
Your words are eloquent and well said.
It is a mystery to me when I run across such comments as those of Ben Mugged.
As we both know, Free Republic is a fine place for sharing conservative viewpoints, and engaging in constructive debate.
Having said that, it is without question that words have meanings and even somtimes consequences.
We are a self-correcting political forum, and that is our strength.
done
Voted.
Yes (30 Votes, 13%)
No, too strong (194 Votes, 84%)
No, too lenient (6 Votes, 3%)
bump
In my 20 years in the service I put in quite a number of miles on my brogans. I also served on a Court Marshal as a juror during the Viet Nam era (insubordination).
When our military/government begin charging our military pilots for their questionable kills I would be able to more easily stomach seeing our ground forces having to face these B.S. charges. Winning wars requires ruthlessness, especially when fighting the type of enemy we are now facing.
If you say so.
BTW, what are brogans? I just always wore boots.
Given that I wasn’t in the jury and don’t know all the facts, I have no comment.
I never knew the Air Force had something called a Master Chief, but hey, what do I know? I was merely in Army aviation. The grunts like me are always the last to learn.
Final poll results
Date: 08-02-2007 - 08-03-2007
Yes 37 Votes(14%)
No, too strong 219 Votes(84%)
No, too lenient 6 Votes(2%)
Wonder how that poll would look if they added in the 15 year sentence? Probably similar.
Thanks, Girlene. Rather one sided poll, isn’t it?
We have a good number of Marines at our air base here. They have been bred to believe in nobody but their fellow Marine combat soldiers. They don’t even associate much with us airmen.
I can’t take offense, though. That’s why they’re special, and God Bless them for it. So this case isn’t really a big shock to them: they’re always felt that they can’t trust anybody except a fellow combat Marine. Note, I said combat. In the opinion of a couple fine Marines I’ve spoken to here on base since last night, they don’t look at JAG’s as fellow soldiers, they look at them as lawyers.
I tried to point out that there ARE good JAG’s, and was met by the “Marine Death Gaze”.
Regardless, Marines are God’s gift to the United States. They fight any number of opponents and still win, even if the opponents are home grown (like the media/JAG’s).
“Marine Death Gaze”. LOL in a good way. I am familiar with the gaze.
You have a good prospective on the Marines and very kind words as well.
Great luck to you and be safe.
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