In Increments, Senate Revisits Immigration Bill

NY Times ^ | August 3, 2007 | JULIA PRESTON

[neverdem]

WASHINGTON, Aug. 2 — When a broad immigration bill failed in the Senate in June after a vitriolic national debate, many legislators said the issue was dead, perhaps until President Bush left office. But already some of the less contentious pieces of the bill are returning to life.

Last week, the Senate approved $3 billion for border security as part of a Homeland Security Department spending bill. Democrats and Republicans have also begun laying ground for a bill to create a new temporary immigrant worker program for agriculture.

Another bill, also with bipartisan support, would give a path to citizenship to high school graduates who are illegal immigrants if they complete two years of college or military service. Senator Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois and a sponsor of the bill, attached it as an amendment to the military authorization legislation that the Senate last month put off until September. Mr. Durbin said he would seek to move it again then.

The agriculture and student measures “have a decent chance of passing this Congress because they have strong champions, broad bipartisan support and they have been around for a long time,” said Frank Sharry, executive director of the National Immigration Forum, which supported the broad bill. But he cautioned that they would have to overcome a “toxic” atmosphere on immigration in the wake of the defeated bill.

The college bill attracted renewed interest this week because of Juan Sebastian Gomez, a student who just graduated with honors from Killian Senior High School in Miami. On July 25, immigration agents in Florida detained Mr. Gomez, 18, his brother and his parents, all illegal immigrants from Colombia, and prepared to deport them. Immigration officials delayed the deportation on Wednesday after a group of Mr. Gomez’s high school friends roused support in South...

[neverdem]

Military service should be the only way for illegals to become legal, IMHO.

[johnthebaptistmoore]

This would also help in boosting the recruiting number totals for the entire U.S. Armed Forces. Becoming a legal U.S. citizen after doing a certain amount of U.S. military service is a very acceptable thing to most people.

[indcons]

Ping

[WorkerbeeCitizen]

ping

[Ben Ficklin]

"Military service should be the only way for illegals to become legal"

Just military service or military service in a combat zone?

[Post5203]

Build the wall in Washington D.C.

[goldstategop]

Shamnesty on the dosage plan.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[nyyankeefan]

if they vote for incremental amnesty...the voters should vote for their incremental loss in the next election!!!!

[from occupied ga]

Military service should be the only way for illegals to become legal, IMHO.

This is extremely dangerous. Illegals have absolutely no tradition of individual freedom and 99.9% of them will say "qué?" when asked about the the Bill of Rights. The not too long term plans of the democrats in Kongress include eventual confiscation of all privately owned firearms, and who do you think will be more likely to carry out such orders? Native born Americans or illegals (Mate a la gente con los armas? Si jeffe.)

[dforest]

This is the way all of the CIR bill will get through. They know we won’t be able to keep up with it.

No victory was won, they will just keep this up until it all passes.

We told them NO, and now we are actually discussing all of this once more, as though it makes sense to go over it again.

[Liz]

The amnesty suckups need to feel the sting of interference. Read on.

Clearly, the invaders and their cadres of co-conspirators are (a) conspiring against the US government and (b) committing hate crimes against America and Americans. It's time Americans victimized by these invaders have OUR rights enforced by federal law.

The time has come to institute provisional citizenship. Anyone who spews hate and total discontent about OUR country, who marches in mobs and holds up hate signs does not deserve citizenship, ever.

It's time Americans victimized by these invaders have OUR rights enforced by federal law. It's time to penalize anyone on American soil who (a) conspires against the US government and (b) commits hate crimes against America and Americans.

Tancredo or Hunter should initiate federal legislation that would impose severe penalties for undermining the US government and committing hate crimes against Americans (crimes like stealing our identities, cloning our cell phones, fraudulently registering/voting, and looting the tax assets of Americans).

Hate Crimes Against Americans---Undermining the US government.

1 - Invaders' using illegal ID or documents

2 - Invaders' Federal income tax evasion

3 - Re-entry into USA after deportation

4 - Obtain/Operate vehicles with illegal ID

5 - ID theft/fraud - Social Security fraud

6 - Knowingly gaining employment fraudulently

7 - Recruiting other illegal aliens workers

8 - Transporting illegal aliens across the border

9 - Harboring &/or housing illegal aliens on American soil

10 - Endangering Americans by undermining US national security

11 - Registering/Voting using fraudulent documentation

12 - Conspiracy to violate federal statutes

13 - Uttering false statements to public officials

14 - Obstructing law enforcement

15 - Sham marriages to avoid deportation

FReepers should emphasize to lawmakers that Americans are demanding:

Provisional citizenship laws

Severe penalties for Hate Crimes Against Americans

Severe penalties for conspiring against, and undermining, the US government

[WildcatClan]

It would seem amnesty is coming, one way or the other, whether we like it or not. Whether in bits or pieces or one illegal at a time. This time it’s a 3.96 GPA, next time it will be something else.

[LibLieSlayer]

dims want 3 Billion $$$ for border security but ONE TRILLION DOLLARS for union built bridges and Interstates. What an arse backwards world in which we live!!!

LLS

[WildcatClan]

Some good ideas, Liz, but no matter what Hunter and Tancredo initiate, it will never become law as long as the Dems control congress, and Bush is in the Whitehouse. Hunter, not only initiated, but got the fence passed, but where is it? Chertoff and Bush are stalling and talking about problems with a fence, but the debate is over, it passed, so build it! It’s my opinion that if Hunter doesn’t get elected or Tancredo, as far as illegal immigrants are concerned, it won’t matter if it’s a Democrat or Republican. This one issue is far important than most think. If we fail in this, it will be like dominoes falling, and after a while border enforcement won’t be a problem anymore. No one will want to come here. There is no upside in leaving one 3rd world crap-hole for another.

[nicmarlo]

BBL

ty for the ping.

[Anonymous Rex]

And it should be a minimum of 8 years not 2.

[bcsco]

This is a ping list promoting Immigration Enforcement and Congressional Reform.
If you wish to be added or removed from this ping list, please contact me.

Huh! "McCain changes course on immigration." That's BS based on the letter I received from him dated July 17th...

Family seeks support for border agent; Ignacio Ramos serving 11-year sentence...

McCain changes course on immigration

Video Game Lets Players Be Immigrants

Monserrate pushes city IDs for all(including illegals)

Guard Numbers on Border to Be Cut

Teens facing deportation get Capitol Hill support

Fleeing Cubans reach U.S. through Mexico

48 arrested in I-70 patrol sweep ( illegal immigrants )

[Wonder Warthog]

"Just military service or military service in a combat zone?"

Just military service. Remember, once they join up, the choice of where they go is NOT up to them. If they end up in a motor pool in Germany, then that's what the army says it needed from them.

[Liz]

Provisional citizenship laws, Severe penalties for Hate Crimes Against Americans, Severe penalties for conspiring against, and undermining, the US government ...........good ideas but will never become law as long as the Dems control congress, and Bush is in the White House.........

Lookit, the amnesty bill was not expected to be defeated---(GWB even bragged about "see you at the signing").

But shamnesty was solidly defeated-----the slapdown included the Mexican govt which backed amnesty.

Keep in mind that anti-illegal is a rare consensus issue. Politicians from both sides of the aisle are hearing the same thing.

As you insightfully posted: " This one issue is more important than most think.........border enforcement won’t be a problem. No one will want to come here. There is no upside in leaving one 3rd world crap-hole for another."

It's already been established our politicians are pandering idiots. If we entered other countries illegally, we'd be arrested and kicked out on our butts. Does everyone know that while Mexicans are reconquering whole areas of the US-----the govt of Mexico TIGHTENED their borders, and toughened their immigration laws so they don't have to put up with situation they are foisting on us.

It's an outrage that US citizens are socked with the costs of subsidizing illegal Mexico's citizens, and are forced to put-up a multi-billion dollar fence, and hire law enforcement to keep these invaders off our land. We get all the grief AND the bills---Mexico gets off scot-free. That has to end.

Keep in mind that the US (that's us, the taxpayers) provides the nuclear defense umbrella to protect Mexico, so that Mexico has no real defense expenses. We need to let Mexico know that we will cut off every penny in US aid unless they do something about border security.

Mexico can well-afford it. Mexico is a wealthy oil-producing neighbor and has eleven "Forbes" billionaires, more than all but eight other nations. Mexico has more billionaires than Saudi Arabia, Switzerland or Taiwan. It also has more than 85,000 millionaires. It's telecommunications king---Carlos Slim has displaced Bill Gates as the world's richest man.

According to a CNN report, Mexico sits on oil reserves worth about $400 billion, but Mexico's state-owned oil company, Pemex, doesn't have the investment funds to tap those reserves, and Mexico's Congress refuses to allow foreign investment in Pemex. Some observers say this is due to Mexican gov't corruption, and the obsession to line their own pockets.

Adding insult to injury American taxpayers are subsidizing foreign aid transfers to Mexico from its lettuce pickers and hamburger flippers here. The percentage corrupt Mexican politicans are getting from this $30-40 billion bundle must be considerable (or else it would be stopped). America should mandate proof for all cash transfers out of the US and/or force all transferring agencies -- banks, credit unions, Amex, Western Union to collect a substantial withholding tax -- 50%, say -- on every unexplained foreign remittance. The government of Mexico---with all of its oil revenue----needs to be pitching in to protect the borders (AND taking care of its own people, not "outsourcing' them as wards of American taxpayers).

Our politicians are pandering idiots. We demand they obey the constitution they were sworn to uphold. We demand they do something about legal citizens losing their savings/homes/futures.........while illegal invaders owning homes in the countries they emanated from, and cash in the bank, are sponging off US citizens.

[Diogenesis]

"Our JOB #1 is to defend, house, protect, insure, immunize, and fully provide for all illegal aliens."

[TomGuy]

Graham, McCain, Kyl, et al, seem to have seen the light, been reborn.

It is also known as trying to save their rears in the next election — because they apparently already cashed the checks from the special interests who were pushing them to pass amnesty for illegals.

[Pietro]

I disagree. I would prefer that our soldiers be uncoerced volunteers.

[montag813]

Why should we permit illegals to join the military in the first place? What a gross hypocrisy. Are we so hard up for bodies that we have to make a mockery of U.S. sovereignty this way?

[angkor]

An amnesty almost as large as 1986 was included in the Senate Ag bill last week. I haven’t had time to check on the status.

The S-CHIP health insurance program was being revised to include approximately 1 million children of illegal aliens.

The Congress is adopting a new incrementalism, doing what they wanted to do in June, but now by stealth.

[twonie]

Service in the combat arms, please. The motorpool or an office job is no place for these people. Otherwise they might just as well work at McDonald’s or Homeless Depot.

[gubamyster]

ping

[Califreak]

Finally! Hate crimes I can agree with!

[TLI]

Military service should be the only way for illegals to become legal, IMHO.

Agreed. Two years of college is bs. The local cholos could pencil-whip that with some bogus paperwork from their cousin who works at the local Jr. College. Or something equally as simple.

These "Repeat Amnesty Bill Offenders" (RABO's) need to be positively identified. This list should be maintained and available throughout the entire 2008 election process.

Only by such a focused effort will we have a good chance at a overall knockout punch to the anti-American amnesty-for-votes click in DC. We need a demonstration of power. Once the list is established our goal should be 90% do not get reelected. To be on the list should be a political death sentence.

Will something like this work?

Dang right it will work! It is already working!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1875492/posts

"McCain changes course on immigration"
WASHINGTON - Republican presidential hopeful John McCain on Thursday backed a scaled-down proposal that imposes strict rules to end illegal immigration but doesn't include a path to citizenship. The move away from a comprehensive measure is an about-face for the Arizona senator, who had been a leading GOP champion of a bill that included a guest worker program and would have legalized many of the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the U.S. It failed earlier this year.

Now, McCain is actually either to stubborn or too stupid to realize that he is as done as French Toast BUT as a failing candidate he is a classic model of what I am talking about.

'The collapse of John McCain's campaign is the most visible sign of conservatives walking away from GOP leaders associated with the comprehensive immigration strategy,"

Yep. Check the chart and the pic. Right to the very day where little johnny is getting face time from MSM...

Now look at the date on the chart...

Bye-bye Johnny!

And it should be the same for the "Repeat Amnesty Bill Offenders" (RABO's).

[Dante3]

Illegals should never be allowed into the military. They would pose all kinds of risks - our military should not be a staffed with foreign criminals.

So what if an illegal alien graduates from high school - they should not even be allowed into high schools. No way should this be a path to citizenship.

What is so adorable about these criminals that our politicians are fighting in spite of it costing them votes?

[noamnasty]

Thats a trick , because most can’t even speak English, much less join military.

They will get their amnesty one way or the other . Just passed a bill to give them free insurance ,while we can’t afford insurance premium it’s so high . I guess they need help to pay for all those births and chain reactions of them ,like anchor baby’s and family’s.

[noamnasty]

The bill in June was just testing the waters, never meant to pass ,imo . It was to see what we would do . Now they know we will call and email them to death,[sarcasm].While the ones who win get out in the streets and in their face, we clog up phones for a few days and bust out the champaign. Now we are back to crying in our beer .

I am at the point of almost not caring anymore. I am so depressed about it all .

[WOSG]

The DREAM act is a NIGHTMARE.

It is a rolling amnesty for anyone here in the US that graduates high school. at taxpayers expense).

This is about illegal immigrant families getting yet another incentive for illegal immigration and more billions in welfare and other costs diverted because we cant control our immigration system. It is *hard* to get student visas, and putting this in place is a bad idea that makes our immigration system more broken than it would otherwise be.

Don’t bring in the military to this, it has nothing to do with it, and is just one of the feel-good sops thrown out there to divert from the massive amnesty that this represents.

All these bills should be seriously and strongly opposed until we get ENFORCEMENT FIRST out of the Congress.

[WOSG]

“Military service should be the only way for illegals to become legal, IMHO.

This is extremely dangerous. Illegals have absolutely no tradition of individual freedom and 99.9% of them will say “qué?” when asked about the the Bill of Rights. The not too long term plans of the democrats in Kongress include eventual confiscation of all privately owned firearms, and who do you think will be more likely to carry out such orders? Native born Americans or illegals (Mate a la gente con los armas? Si jeffe.)”

For more on this in history, read “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire”. The barbarians that were let into the Roman Army (because the Romans needed to recruit more to fight, uh, other barbarians) eventually became the agents for the destruction of the western Roman Empire in the 5th century.

[Dante3]

I know how you feel. We need to bombard also radio talk shows, point out what they are doing. The traitors in our government are fanatically determined to destroy this country.

Somehow we must become better organized, and we have to keep after those who for whatever reason want to push amnesty and perks for illegal aliens down our throats.

[Dante3]

Good point.

[angkor]

The bill in June was just testing the waters, never meant to pass ,imo .

I totally disagree. 100 percent. So cheer up.

The Senate is a pack of wolves, but lone wolves. They do not play nice together, and they don't do that unless they must.

Take John Kerry with his Tuesday to Thursday "work" week. He files no bills, he misses many votes, he cosponsors only the trivial, and he continues to be reelected.

"He's an odd duck," you say. But, no, he isn't. That's how they all operate, as complete loners who come together only when they must. You see Kennedy at the rostrum with 5 other Senators and you think "They're pals, it's always like this for them". No, it isn;t. After that press op, Kennedy flies back to his office and 30+ person staff, slams the door to his office, and that's it, he;s doing whatever it is he does in there.

My point is that the Senate is far too self-absorbed and disconnected to come up with (not to mention execute) a plot or conspiracy.

What they did in Junes was genuine, as was their shock at being called to task by constituents. They live in another world. They were truly perturbed by all those telephone calls, faxes, and emails.

[from occupied ga]

eventually became the agents for the destruction of the western Roman Empire in the 5th century.

What I said. Those who are ignorant of history may end up repeating it. Of course sometimes those who are cognizant of history want to repeat it. It appears that the Democrats and a number of Republicans want to destroy America as we know it today and repalce itwith something along more socialist/totalitarial lines.

[WOSG]

In 1993, it was widely expected that socialized health care would arrive to the US.
In 1994, the Hillary Socialized Health Care plan exploded.

Then Hillary decided to do it incremental. Step 1 was the CHIP program. Step 2 was prescription drugs. Now, this week we get a huge expansion in CHIP, ‘kids’ who are 25 and families who make enough to pay AMT will get benefits - socialized medicine by increments.

In 2006, then in 2007, two attempts were made at wholesale amnesty. It failed.
“But shamnesty was solidly defeated-——the slapdown included the Mexican govt which backed amnesty.”

Just as with socialized medicine, the salami-slice approach to incremental change will be tried.

“Keep in mind that anti-illegal is a rare consensus issue. Politicians from both sides of the aisle are hearing the same thing.”

They need to be told point blank that *ANY AMNESTY PROGRAM IS VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED*. The DREAM Act, the Ag-Job amnesty, or other amnesties are all wrong.

We have to oppose creeping open borders and creeping socialism.

[WOSG]

“An amnesty almost as large as 1986 was included in the Senate Ag bill last week. I haven’t had time to check on the status.

The S-CHIP health insurance program was being revised to include approximately 1 million children of illegal aliens.

The Congress is adopting a new incrementalism, doing what they wanted to do in June, but now by stealth.”

IMPORTANT POINT!

[Dante3]

BUMP

[WOSG]

Never give up. Never surrender.
They won’t get these bills if we fight them.

[Rockitz]

You can mix crap with a little sugar, but at the end of the day, it still tastes like crap.

[Liz]

Heheh——so glad.

[phillyfanatic]

Well, in two days, Congressional Dems have tried to get healthcare, SS, Medicare for illegals in the just passed ???? Ag. bill. They have tried with Specter’s help to give them even more aid by raising taxes. When Pub RINOS compromise with Kennedy and the other immigration nutcases, we get tax payers put into a position of being blasted by the highest tax increase in years if and when the Dem majority gets its way.

[WildcatClan]

Liz, should you run, you have my vote. :) I posted on my local board that we should not squander the Shamnesty momentum and keep on the pressure till they build the fence and get serious about enforcing our laws. No one even responded to my comment. I don’t get the rightful anger in opposing Shamnesty and then the seemingly lax attitude towards 12-20 million illegals. FYI, I think 12-20 is inaccurate and am not really sure how they could know as these are, “illegals” we are speaking about here. The numbers I see myself in Smalltown, USA and rural areas tells me 12 million is far from accurate. In my opinion, it is at least 24 million and possibly 30. I have had some of the same ideas you have had and some with slight differences. It’s my opinion that anytime an illegal is caught, either sneaking into the USA or in the interior, or commits a crime, Mexico should get the bill along with the understanding it will be deducted from any US aid they might receive. Also any costs associated with illegal inmates should be billed to Mexico. 9-11 was tragic and horrible and required a firm response, but with the borders practically wide open, just how secure are we really? I have suggested a database with the fingerprints of all illegals caught in the interior and trying to sneak in at the border. If you’re in the database you are automatically disqualified for US citizenship, visas, etc. I would wonder how many US citizens have been killed (DWI) or murdered (homicide) by illegals since 9-11. I know the number would be high and one is one too many. I have to question how “secure”, Homeland Security truly is when Chertoff can’t even get a fence built.

[kabar]

Military service should be the only way for illegals to become legal

I hope not. The price of citizenship should not be established by mercenaries. Illegals should not be given citizenship.

[Travis McGee]

[Liz]

Here's a repost of FReeper KEVMO's excellent suggestion:

RICO — Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO).

The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, and can include nonprofit associations. Here’s what I’ve been pushing: it’s time to file Racketeering, Influencing, and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) lawsuits. RICO lawyers could turn it around in a few years and MAKE MONEY at the same time. I’m surprised they haven’t done it already.

In the absence of enforcement, we can get the word out in the meantime that there is money to be made in filing RICO lawsuits against employers who hire illegal aliens. Employers would have no trouble shutting down the border if they could get sued by someone under the RICO statutes for hiring these people in the first place.

CASE IN POINT When an illegal alien kills someone in a drunk driving accident, the victim’s family would file under RICO statutes to seek compensation from the illegal's employer.

If this catches on, we would see a swift backlash against illegal immigration; no employer would go near them; illegals would have no recourse but to return home.

(Other violations of law would apply under RICO since they are (a) done in groups and (b) exhibit a "pattern:"

1 - Invaders' using illegal ID or documents

2 - Invaders' Federal income tax evasion

3 - Re-entry into USA after deportation

4 - Obtain/Operate vehicles with illegal ID

5 - ID theft/fraud - Social Security fraud

6 - Knowingly gaining employment fraudulently

7 - Recruiting other illegal aliens workers

8 - Transporting illegal aliens across the border

9 - Harboring &/or housing illegal aliens on American soil

10 - Endangering Americans by undermining US national security

11 - Registering/Voting using fraudulent documentation

12 - Conspiracy to violate federal statutes

13 - Uttering false statements to public officials

14 - Obstructing law enforcement

15 - Sham marriages to avoid deportation)

[dforest]

Face it folks, it was a noble fight against the CIR bill.

No matter how noble, our government no longer cares about the will of the people.

One thing we would appreciate, if there is something we should know that they have not articulated, please let us know, otherwise we can only assume that we have a rogue government.

Contrary to what the elitists think, ahem...not all of us are ignorant and stupid.

The US citizens are sick and tired of it.

Unfortunately folks. illegals and the people that represent them, have nothng to lose. We are in debt, have mortgages, and have a life based on being a US citizen. We have everything to lose, our enemies know that and know we are too distracted and afraid to lose something to fight it.

It will be a loss by default. So sad.

[stephenjohnbanker]

Yep