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Time to admit the 'gun nuts' are right
Journal Inquirer ^ | 8/3/2007 | Keith C. Burris

Posted on 08/04/2007 10:30:58 AM PDT by 2nd amendment mama

In the aftermath of the Petit family slayings in Cheshire, we all reached for explanations: How do human beings sink this low? How could this tragedy have been prevented? Why? There are so many nagging questions. They all need to be asked. And maybe some old arguments need to be hashed out again.

Why not a more stringent "three strikes and you're out" law in this state? Connecticut's version is so weak that it's more like "30 strikes and we'll think about it while you strike again."

Why not speed up the criminal trial process for repeat violent offenders? Get them off the streets. It's been proposed many times. Most people agree it should be done. It never happens.

Can't we better monitor the probation process?

Can't we do a better job of predicting -- figuring out which non-violent criminals are about to turn violent?

Are home alarms really effective?

How about dogs?

But somehow all of these ideas pale before the barbarity of this particular crime.

That is why one old question is worth asking again. It is this: What if the Second Amendment is for real? Is it possible that it should it be revered, just like the First Amendment?

Sam Ervin said, "The Constitution should be taken like mountain whiskey -- undiluted and untaxed." Maybe that applies to all of the Constitution.

Is it possible that the Second Amendment is not a quaint and antiquated remnant of a world that will never return, but an idea as relevant and sound today as when it was written?

Is it possible that we are not talking about the right of the government to form a militia when there is no standing army, but the right of the individual to defend himself, or herself, against both tyranny and lawlessness? Maybe we are talking about the right of self-defense -- the right of the individual to take up arms against a government that wants to oppress, be it foreign or domestic. And the right of the individual to defend himself against criminals, brutes, and barbarians when local police seem unable to stop them.

Might the Second Amendment matter almost as much as the First?

I think the answer is yes.

And just like the First, the Second is practical, newly relevant, and far wiser than the watered-down alternatives.

I don't think George Bush wants to impose martial law on his fellow citizens. But he has diluted habeas corpus. And he has enlarged Big Brother. You have to stop and think about a government that wants to control the thoughts and behavior of its people.

Should such a government be permitted to disarm them as well?

And whereas the reform of the criminal justice system along some of the lines suggested above (a real "three strikes" law and faster trials for violent offenders) would not have saved the lives of Jennifer, and Hayley, and Michaela Petit, a gun might have.

I don't say it would have.

I say it might have.

Had Dr. William Petit had access to a gun and known how to use it, he might have been able to dispatch the two perpetrators, who were armed with only an air gun and ropes.

Moreover, the three victims here were women.

What if Mrs. Hawke-Petit had been trained in the use of firearms? Suppose she had been able to get to a gun after her husband was beaten into unconsciousness by the invaders? Or when she was forced to take one captor to the bank to fetch him money?

It's worth thinking about.

Women and children are now the major targets of predators in our society. Government is not protecting them very well. Many professional women who work in cities know this and take courses in self-defense. A gun may be the only realistic self-defense against the sort of criminals we are talking about here.

And if a few women took care of a few thugs in cases like this; if a few stories like this one ended in a different way -- with a woman blowing one of these brutes to kingdom come -- it might be a deterrent. Lives upon lives might be spared.

A friend of mine said: "The gun nuts are back."

They are.

And they are right.

Mind you, we are talking about arming people who are trained and know how to use a weapon.

No one should have a gun who has not been trained.

Just as one gets training in handling a boat, motorcycle, or car, one must learn how to use and safely store a gun. (The National Rifle Association maintains an extensive national network of programs in firearms training and education.)

And, obviously, no one would be forced to own a gun.

A second caveat: Encouraging citizens to arm themselves is no "answer" to crimes like the Petit murders.

An "answer" does not exist.

But it is one of several remedies when we are faced with palpable evil.

All possible remedies should be on the table:

-- Various reforms of the justice system, like a real three-strike-law for predatory offenders.

-- Better psychological treatment for troubled youth.

-- Religious training, in both love and self-restraint, especially when people are young.

-- Prison programs that both retain the hard core and educate the educable.

-- More and better home alarm systems.

-- More cops visible in more neighborhoods.

-- Dobermans.

All of these approaches have merit.

So does self-defense.

None of these options "fix" a society that can produce human beings who torture and kill the defenseless for sport.

No one step or program can plug every hole in America's justice system, or its soul.

But there are times when a gun in the hands of a potential victim may save a life.

Let's admit -- since the murderers, and druggies, and psychos, and thieves already have guns -- that arming the peaceful, law-abiding, decent, and productive people, whether in a school, or a private home, or on the way to a parked car, is an option that also has merit.

--------

Keith C. Burris is editorial page editor of the Journal Inquirer.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; selfdefense
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Loved this line....

And if a few women took care of a few thugs in cases like this; if a few stories like this one ended in a different way -- with a woman blowing one of these brutes to kingdom come -- it might be a deterrent. Lives upon lives might be spared.

They're starting to wake up in CT!!! I think that this crime has made it perfectly clear to people in CT that evil does exist and it needs to be stopped - with ALL available tools - including guns.

1 posted on 08/04/2007 10:31:01 AM PDT by 2nd amendment mama
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To: basil; dbwz; Ladysmith; Jhohanna; spitter; SecondAmendment SASter; mombrown1; 2A_Martian; ...

Ping


2 posted on 08/04/2007 10:32:32 AM PDT by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org • Self defense is a basic human right!)
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To: Eaker

Guns scare me.


3 posted on 08/04/2007 10:34:52 AM PDT by humblegunner (Word up!)
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To: humblegunner

That is their intended purpose......


4 posted on 08/04/2007 10:36:35 AM PDT by Red Badger (All I know about Minnesota, I learned from Garrison Keilor.............)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Well... self-defense solves the problem of a psychopath getting a second chance to blow away your family forever... by making sure he's dead first. I don't trust our justice system to dispose of the human garbage in a fast and efficient manner.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

5 posted on 08/04/2007 10:39:45 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Is it possible that the Second Amendment is not a quaint and antiquated remnant of a world that will never return, but an idea as relevant and sound today as when it was written?

Is it possable?

Well DUH!

It is more so!
6 posted on 08/04/2007 10:39:50 AM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: 2nd amendment mama

If we were meant to never shoot thugs, God would not have given us trigger fingers.


7 posted on 08/04/2007 10:40:56 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
It's always interesting and amusing to see liberals waking up to the obvious, especially when it comes to the "dreaded" Second Amendment.

It's not unlike their awakening from deep sedation.

8 posted on 08/04/2007 10:40:57 AM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Elections have consequences.)
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To: humblegunner
Guns scare me.

Me too. Guns are scary. They are LOUD and put holes in things and people and really scare me if pointed at me. That's why we train to handle them properly and hit what we shoot at.

(By your name I figure this is along the lines of what you meant.)

9 posted on 08/04/2007 10:42:33 AM PDT by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
-- Dobermans.

My guns don't bark, don't poop, dont need to be fed or taken for walks.........and they'll sit peacefully on my night stand all night long.

10 posted on 08/04/2007 10:43:07 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (If your cat was big enough it would probably eat you)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Might the Second Amendment matter almost as much as the First?

The Second matters more than the First. The Second is the one that puts teeth in all the rest of the Amendments.

L

11 posted on 08/04/2007 10:44:01 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing moderate islam to extremist islam is like comparing small pox to ebola.)
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To: 2nd amendment mama

Well said, Mr. Burris.


12 posted on 08/04/2007 10:44:36 AM PDT by snowsislander
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Many of us have been awake for a long time. My CT pistol permit is over 20 years old and a resident has been able to get one since long before 1986 when I got mine.

Unfortunately, The JI has a pretty small circulation and the Hardly Courant is decidedly anti-gun

13 posted on 08/04/2007 10:44:59 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: humblegunner

M1 Garands scare me.


14 posted on 08/04/2007 10:45:12 AM PDT by Eaker (If illegal immigrants were so great for an economy; Mexico would be building a wall to keep them in)
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To: Hot Tabasco; humblegunner
My guns don't bark, don't poop, dont need to be fed or taken for walks...

How did you teach yer guns not to poop?

15 posted on 08/04/2007 10:47:20 AM PDT by Eaker (If illegal immigrants were so great for an economy; Mexico would be building a wall to keep them in)
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To: Eaker
The only Garands that frighten me are those very few models which suffer from a loose nut behind the trigger. Thankfully there aren't many of those around.

L

16 posted on 08/04/2007 10:47:31 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing moderate islam to extremist islam is like comparing small pox to ebola.)
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To: humblegunner
Guns scare me.

As well they should. Indeed, that is one of their secondary uses: to scare people. It is, of course, a use that can be enlisted both for good and for evil. And when things work right a use that can sometimes suffice to help avoid their primary use.

I trust, that you were being ironic, though, and making the same point under the cover of dry wit. (Still for the sort of folks Rush holds live in Rio Linda, we do want to spell things out, don't we?)

17 posted on 08/04/2007 10:49:50 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: Hazcat
I figure this is along the lines of what you meant

Yes, I was being sarcastic.

I have many guns, learned to shoot at an early age as have my sons.

Charter member of the Gun-Nut Rednecks Beer-N-Barbecue Society.

18 posted on 08/04/2007 10:49:59 AM PDT by humblegunner (Word up!)
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To: Lurker
There was something loose, but it was not a nut behind the trigger.



19 posted on 08/04/2007 10:50:43 AM PDT by Eaker (If illegal immigrants were so great for an economy; Mexico would be building a wall to keep them in)
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To: Eaker; Hot Tabasco
How did you teach yer guns not to poop?

I'd like to know, too.

Mine poop out hot brass all the time.

Usually it hits Eaker, though, which is kinda cool.

20 posted on 08/04/2007 10:52:28 AM PDT by humblegunner (Word up!)
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To: humblegunner

It’s the bullets you should be afraid of.


21 posted on 08/04/2007 10:53:14 AM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Elections have consequences.)
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To: Eaker; humblegunner

Buncha drama queens!

The business end of a _____ scares me!

And spiders! :-)


22 posted on 08/04/2007 10:53:18 AM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: 2nd amendment mama
What if the Second Amendment is for real? Is it possible that it should it be revered, just like the First Amendment?

I can't tell if this is written tongue-in-cheek. If it isn't, this is one of the most assinine comments I have ever read.

23 posted on 08/04/2007 10:53:19 AM PDT by CaptRon (Pedicaris alive or Raisuli dead)
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To: Eaker
Lordamighty! What the heck happened to that thing!

I've seen a few bulged barrels, but never anything like that. Was the shooter ok?

L

24 posted on 08/04/2007 10:54:42 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing moderate islam to extremist islam is like comparing small pox to ebola.)
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To: Eaker
How did you teach yer guns not to poop?

Use a revolver or one of those wrist-worn brass catcher thingies on your auto.

25 posted on 08/04/2007 10:54:43 AM PDT by Gorzaloon (Food imported from China = Cesspool + Flavr-Straw™)
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To: The_Reader_David
I trust, that you were being ironic, though, and making the same point under the cover of dry wit.

Yes, for those who live in Rio Linda, I was being sarcastic.

It ain't funny, though, if I have to explain it. ;-)

26 posted on 08/04/2007 10:55:38 AM PDT by humblegunner (Word up!)
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To: humblegunner
Charter member of the Gun-Nut Rednecks Beer-N-Barbecue Society.

So what do you carry for your 'barbece' gun? I use my 45 Redhawk in a Simply Rugged holster for 'formal' occasions. ;)

27 posted on 08/04/2007 10:56:37 AM PDT by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: 2nd amendment mama

“How do human beings sink this low?”

That’s not the question. The question is why do the authorities give them the opportunity?


28 posted on 08/04/2007 10:57:38 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Eaker

Yikes!


29 posted on 08/04/2007 10:57:44 AM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Elections have consequences.)
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To: 2nd amendment mama

That is why I keep a loaded remmington 870 12 ga under bed.


30 posted on 08/04/2007 10:57:56 AM PDT by Hydroshock ("The Constitution should be taken like mountain whiskey -- undiluted and untaxed." - Sam Ervin)
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To: Lurker; Eaker
Was the shooter ok?

He was bloody for a few minutes and continued shooting that day.

What was that guys name?

And who took that excellent picture???

31 posted on 08/04/2007 10:58:23 AM PDT by humblegunner (Word up!)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Look! Another liberal waking up to logic, reason, and sanity.
32 posted on 08/04/2007 10:58:27 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: 2nd amendment mama

Please add me to this ping list. Thanks


33 posted on 08/04/2007 10:58:55 AM PDT by Hydroshock ("The Constitution should be taken like mountain whiskey -- undiluted and untaxed." - Sam Ervin)
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To: humblegunner
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
34 posted on 08/04/2007 10:59:08 AM PDT by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: Hazcat
So what do you carry for your 'barbece' gun?

Usually the Glock 27.

It's nice that if it gets sauce on it, I can just toss it in the dishwasher.

35 posted on 08/04/2007 10:59:47 AM PDT by humblegunner (Word up!)
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To: Hazcat

Ooh,, if that don’t give you the warm fuzzies nothin will! :-)


36 posted on 08/04/2007 11:00:26 AM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: CaptRon
Is it possible that we are not talking about the right of the government to form a militia when there is no standing army, but the right of the individual to defend himself, or herself, against both tyranny and lawlessness?...

You can believe either of those reasons as you wish, but what is clear is that the amendment admits the people's right to keep and bear arms, at least until it is repealed.

37 posted on 08/04/2007 11:00:34 AM PDT by Old North State
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To: muir_redwoods
I'm familiar with CT CCW, I still retain mine as a non-resident. I used to live in Vernon and know all the state's papers. This was re-printed in The Day in New London today too.

When I lived in CT I ran women-only events to introduce women to shooting.

38 posted on 08/04/2007 11:00:44 AM PDT by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org • Self defense is a basic human right!)
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To: humblegunner

LOL!!


39 posted on 08/04/2007 11:00:46 AM PDT by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: JoeSixPack1
Ooh,, if that don’t give you the warm fuzzies nothin will! :-)

Thank you kindly, Sir.

It is my favorite (just don't tell my others!)

40 posted on 08/04/2007 11:03:18 AM PDT by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: Lurker

Yeah, I am fine. I was about a quart low on blood as my right arm was a fountain and had to have a piece of shell casing dug out of my breastbone but other than that okay.

It was the thirteenth round out of a brand new and freshly cleaned, by a former Marine (TexasCowboy) using range bought factory Winchester ammo. Rather than considering a lawsuit against Springfield we sent the weapon back to them for examination to ascertain if they should recall the other 9,999 in the same batch. Springfield would not disclose the cause or discuss a recall. They did not do the knee jerk “pilot error” thing though.


41 posted on 08/04/2007 11:04:48 AM PDT by Eaker (If illegal immigrants were so great for an economy; Mexico would be building a wall to keep them in)
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To: humblegunner; Lurker
And who took that excellent picture???

Some jerk that went by the name humblegunner.

42 posted on 08/04/2007 11:08:44 AM PDT by Eaker (If illegal immigrants were so great for an economy; Mexico would be building a wall to keep them in)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
...a real "three strikes" law and faster trials for violent offenders...

People never seem to grasp that a "three strikes" law only makes a criminal's third offense one which he is desperate to avoid conviction for...so desperate that he may commit murder to avoid it.

Are home alarms really effective?

NBC reported that many of the people that had burglar alarms didn't have them turned on. They reported it in a story about increased gun sales in Cheshire.

... with a woman blowing one of these brutes to kingdom come -- it might be a deterrent.

Amen...It'll be a great day in America when the nightly news has more stories about maimed would-be kidnappers than it does about kidnapped women's bodies being recovered.

All in all, I'd have been happy if either or both of these guys had been shot to death while commiting whatever crimes they were paroled for.

43 posted on 08/04/2007 11:08:58 AM PDT by gundog
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To: Eaker
Yeah, I am fine. I was about a quart low on blood as my right arm was a fountain and had to have a piece of shell casing dug out of my breastbone but other than that okay.

OUCH!

I would bet that you like my son who had a 22 blowup in his face, are a DEDICATED shooting glasses wearer.

44 posted on 08/04/2007 11:10:09 AM PDT by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: Old North State

As I wrote recently on another thread, the right to bear arms does not depend on the need for a militia; the existence of a militia depends on the right to bear arms.


45 posted on 08/04/2007 11:13:58 AM PDT by CaptRon (Pedicaris alive or Raisuli dead)
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To: Eaker
Springfield would not disclose the cause

I certainly hope they replaced the rifle. That's a pricey piece of hardware. It'd be more understandable if it were a CMP piece, but a Springfield...man oh man.

I did a CMP shoot a couple summers ago. They had a bunch of CMP surplus Garands and what seemed like cases and cases of surplus Mil-Spec black tip ammo.

I was going to shoot my M1A, but I just couldn't resist plucking a Garand off the rack. Now I just got to get around to actually relieving the Feds of one more piece of history.

Glad you're alright. Man were you lucky. That could have ended really badly.

They did not do the knee jerk “pilot error” thing though.

Mighty decent of them. Even more decent if the lack of explanation was accompanied by a new rifle.

L

46 posted on 08/04/2007 11:14:24 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing moderate islam to extremist islam is like comparing small pox to ebola.)
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To: Eaker
Re: # 19 (M1 Kaboom)

I remember that photo from back when it first was posted on the gun boards. It was a new Springfield M1, IIRC. Texas range, too - Houston area, maybe?

I don't recall the entire story, but it had something to do with a tight chamber, forcing the op rod into battery - something like that.

47 posted on 08/04/2007 11:17:04 AM PDT by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: humblegunner

A legitimate question: WHY?


48 posted on 08/04/2007 11:17:19 AM PDT by zerosix (Native Sunflower)
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To: Hazcat
You betcha! There is a before pic of me taken by my then 12yo daughter and a pic of me shooting left handed later.


A few more pic’s here.

49 posted on 08/04/2007 11:17:36 AM PDT by Eaker (If illegal immigrants were so great for an economy; Mexico would be building a wall to keep them in)
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To: Hot Tabasco

They also don’t bite your children, attack the neighborhood children, cost a fortune in vet bills, etc.


50 posted on 08/04/2007 11:19:09 AM PDT by zerosix (Native Sunflower)
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