Skip to comments.Mitt unplugged
Posted on 08/04/2007 2:34:44 PM PDT by mmanager
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“This is the start of the implosion that we nasty anti-Mormons have been predicting, and been vilified for. “
If Mitt thinks a simple question was bad, wait until Carville
the Snake gets him in the general election. Or Ann Lewis. Or
any of the other Clinton paid hit people. Mitt had better
start practicing now with these puff questions.
The more he refuses to ever talk about mormonism, the
more he looks shifty and evasive. If he really wants to
be POTUS, he will give “The Talk”.
Let’s hope he is knocked out of the primaries and never
makes it to the general election.
Do you know what “A Mormon Perfect Union” means?
Advocating a religous test ain’t they way to go if you really believe that statement.
I hope everyone saw the joke!
All Freedom loving and Pro-Life Mitt Sympathizers remember this link if Rudy wins the nomination and he is shut out because of religion. All Mitt needs is over 200,000 internet votes to guarantee a spot on Unity 2008 ticket. Here’s hoping for a Mitt/Zell Miller or Lieberman 2008 ticket!
“This is the giant cow pie that the anti-Mormon bigots always hide behind when called on their constant bigotry in the Mitt Romney threads. And its stupid. “Oh, we’re just showing how most Americans are going to react to a Mormon running for President and if Romney can’t take the heat...blah, blah, blah...” No one believes it.”
I believe it, based on this...
According to a Rasmussen poll, 30-61% of Americans will
not vote for a mormon. A uniform answer given across the
board and regardless of age, gender, party, race, etc.
Why do you think that is?
[Yep, if I believed in your logic, then I guess all of those speaking in tongue Christians should not be president.]
I didn’t say they couldn’t be president, only that they should be open to questioning and able to explain how speaking in tongues would affect their presidency. I think someone giving whole speeches in tongues might be a bit disturbing, I guess you don’t.
Jesus was never Caesar. That is to say, Jesus’ religious beliefs actually disqualified him to be a ruler. So why should you expect Romney to be immune from scrutiny?
Not everyone deserves to be president, no matter how great their resume.
[I guess that leaves, Catholics, ah, wait maybe not.
Unitarians? Ahh, no.
Pentecostals? No, see above.
Southern Bapists? No they were created on the slavery issue.
Who is left? Ah yeah, Liberal Christians!
Only a Liberal Christian can be president because they are grounded!]
And by your criteria, Satanists, Wiccans, Kabbalists, Santerians, Scientologists, Rastafarans, et. al. just get a free pass. Some logic you have.
But certainly you’d expect Methodists to reject Hillary if she was a hypocrite about her religion? Or wouldn’t that count?
Thank you. I love humor. :-)
There is only one basis upon which I could vote for the Mittster in the general election, families. [I won't stay away front eh polls regardless; it's too important that conservatives vote in Senate and House races.] If he can make the case to the American voters that his brand of Mormonism is superior to that of Harry 'the undertaker' Reid (who is so antithetical to what I had thought were mainstream Mormonism beliefs in life issues like abortion and honesty and morality--which Harry lacks in spades--), if Mitt can make the case, well, he has a chance with Christian Conservatives. Otherwise, I will expect Mitt to be a copy of Harry if they are painted with the same Mormonism brush.
It's like Ted Kennedy being the spokesperson for Catholicism ... the bloody pig is a servant of Satan as proved with his policies and embrace of abortion as an empowerment scheme for the DNC. If Mitt can sufficiently distance himself from demonspawn like Harry Reid, THEN Mitt might have a chance to be elected by conservatives.
and you are prepared to participate in allowing
Mitt to use the platform of POTUS to advance the
LDS church? Countless photo ops, ceremonies, etc?
And you know it would happen.
Would you feel the same, if the cult we were talking
about was a conservative Hare Krishna? Saffron and
white probably go well together...
“And by your criteria, Satanists, Wiccans, Kabbalists, Santerians, Scientologists, Rastafarans, et. al. just get a free pass. Some logic you have.
But certainly youd expect Methodists to reject Hillary if she was a hypocrite about her religion? Or wouldnt that count?”
I count point to policy problems to all of those scenarios. Mitt on the other is advocation a moral view within the Judeo/Christian worldview/moral-framework. Yes, I believe you can be a “heretic” and strongly hold to that worldview. As we see in this post Mormons rank pretty high in Biblical understanding when compared to other sects. See here -— http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b408c8e570f.htm
What is interesting is that Charismatics rate the highest on Biblical understanding, but yet said that a Charismatic should be disqualified for office, because of their toungue speaking.
So obviously, you guys are not advocating Biblical understanding for a President’s fitness for office. You are advocating what is popular in the world. Sounds pretty unBiblical to me actually!
“Why would one be agitated to comment on what his church stands for?”
That wasn’t what happened. He was ticked off that some radio host set himself up as being more of an expert on Mitt’s faith than Mitt (who has held some significant leadership positions) then accuses Romney of not living his faith to the point where he should be excommunicated based on his weak understanding of Mormonism.
Watch the whole video, Romney acted appropriately and made his point quite well. I don’t want some wimp POTUS who can’t stand up to others and I don’t want a POTUS who thinks that everything his own religion is opposed to should be made a criminal offense.
Now it must be said loudly that most Mormons are very decent and honorable people. Dont care what you all believe, just keep it to yourselves, cause its not selling to anyone with basic Christian knowledge.
Actually, the Church is growing quite well thanks in part to our missionaries and our ranks of converts includes ministers (well, former ministers now) from many other faiths.
If our message was so weird and our doctrines so far off track, you shouldn’t be worried about us going around telling people about it.
I hope Mitt gets the nomination and is elected POTUS just to tick off all the anti-Mormon bigots.
It would be fun to see their collective heads explode when Mitt puts his hand on a ‘quad’ (The KJV Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price, in other words the full set of LDS scripture) to take the oath of office.
I have tried to look this up and explanations are so convoluted and full of incomprehensible jargon and strange names, and even the Indians get tossed into the mix somehow...
Looking into this from the outside you Mormons need to realize how the whole issue seems to be a lot of mumbo-jumbo to normal Christians.
Another cheap shot at Mitt eh? He looked pretty good, even to the Romney camp on this one. Nice try but Mitt will continue to do well.
-—Looks like the bigots have found this thread and are doing their level best to muck it up with their lies, smears, and nasty religious intolerance. I really thought that FReepers were better than this, but the behavior of these jerks have made me realize that I was wrong. Im not sure that I can continue donating to a website that condones this kind of religious intolerance and harassment.-—
I knew there were some number anti-Mormon religious bigots on this site, but I didn’t realize that Free Republic apparently condones their behavior until this evening. I will have to rethink my commitment here. I do not want to be associated with anything like this.
Just to clarify.
White salamanders, white letters. Sheesh!
And I thought Mikelson was rude and boorish, never letting Mitt answer, and presuming to know more about Mitt’s church than Mitt himself.
Then there’s the whole issue of filming someone “off the record” without telling them, and posting it on YouTube for the world to see a “private” conversation.
I don’t support Romney, but I don’t agree with disingenuous “gotcha” conservatives, either.
Why would that be a depressing statement for them to read?
“Ok please explain to all of us how the Bible which is 2000 years old has any kind of a tie in to the book of Mormon, from the 1800s, thereby validating the book as a legitimate addition to the original Bible.”
What happened to ‘keep it to yourself’? :)
First, I think you misunderstand what the Book of Mormon is. We do not see it as an addition to the Bible, it is a separate book of scripture that also testifies of Christ.
Second, you seem to think along the lines that if the Bible doesn’t mention it, it doesn’t exist. Well the Bible doesn’t talk about I-pods, hair gel, ball point pens, and many other things we know exist. The validity of the Book of Mormon is not determined by whether or not the Bible talks of it, it is determined by witness of the Spirit of God that comes to those who read it and earnestly strive to find out from God through prayer if it is true or not. God doesn’t lie.
Be that as it may, there are parts of the Bible that speak of the Book or Mormon or of the peoples in it. In Ezek 37 you will read of a prophecy about the stick of Joseph and the stick of Judah. We take the reference to stick to indicate a record (a scroll wrapped around a stick, or a stick used to write in a wax tablet). The stick of Judah then is the Bible, scripture that comes to us from the the descendants of Judah. The stick of Joseph is the Book of Mormon, scriptures that came to us from people descended from Joseph.
Christ also spoke of having ‘other sheep’ besides the Jews who would also hear his voice. The Book of Mormon records Christ telling the those people that they are those other sheep:
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
3 Nephi 15
21 And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
22 And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their preaching.
23 And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voicethat I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost.
24 But behold, ye have both heard my voice, and seen me; and ye are my sheep, and ye are numbered among those whom the Father hath given me.
Lastly, the Book of Mormon is not from the 1800’s, that is just when it was translated and published. It is a record of people who lived in the Americas mainly from 600BC to 400AD.
“Looking into this from the outside you Mormons need to realize how the whole issue seems to be a lot of mumbo-jumbo to normal Christians.”
There is a lot of disinformation out there that often misleads people into seeing us as being different than what we are.
The logic you use is twisted. In the passage you cited, the Lord spoke to a prophet to warn others of false prophets. However, because you deny the Lord the ability to call latter-day prophets, you are claiming inspiration from the Lord that you do not have and that you do not believe that you are entitled to have. How would you know that Joseph’s Smith’s visions were false, if the Lord had not revealed it to you?
Romney wasn’t in control?? You’re kidding..right? I viewed the video 3 times. I thought he did a fantastic job considering how ignorant the interviewer was. I would’ve decked the guy. How many times does he have to explain his religion??? In my opinion, never. As I stated in a previous post...So Mitts a Mormon..Im Catholic. SO WHAT!! He believes in the SAME God that I do (ie., NOT Allah). I really cant believe some of the truly idiotic Freeper postings regarding this hyped up religious controversy. Why isnt Obama under the same scrutiny?? Everyone can tell that hes a Muslim in Christians clothing. ENOUGH ALREADY!
I agree. I thought he kept his cool pretty well, especially when the daft dolt he was speaking with didn’t want to even TRY to understand Romney’s point of view.
Well, they should be a bit depressed in the Romney camp that he just isn’t gaining national traction. He’s doing well in Iowa and New Hampshire, but the rest of the country either doesn’t know him or doesn’t like him.
I sure hope nobody in his camp thinks that all Mormons will vote for him just because he’s a Mormon. To me, that’s as silly as people NOT voting for him just because he is a Mormon.
That’s what I noticed, too. I can imagine the setup:
“All right, we’ll sit Romney down here. I’ll have the camera rolling—we won’t tell him, of course. Then, when you go to a commercial break, why don’t you ask some antagonistic questions about his religion, not listen to his answers, and then tell him he doesn’t know anything about his own church. We’ll try to get him really pissed off, and then we’ll post the video on YouTube.”
I thought Romney handled the ambush fairly well. I don’t agree with all of his answers, but he showed much more class than the ambushers.
By their fruits shall you know them.
I also know a lot of Baptist type Christians who were very judgmental of me during a very hard time (Down Syndrome twins) than the Mormons. They were loving, nonjudgmental and there to help, no matter what, in my time of trouble — and NEVER EVER tried to convert me to their religion. That is the truth.
I think Mitt did well here...
Judgmental of you because you have twins with Down’s Syndrome???? What on earth could someone judge you for in such a situation? And why would they even try?
Criminy, I don’t understand people sometimes.
My heart goes out to you. We have a 14-year old son who is severely autistic, and just doesn’t “act right.” I’ve seen the stares he gets, but those kind of ignorant people are easy to ignore.
God bless you and your family.
“Romney wasn’t in control”
That’s right. He was not in control. Mikelson kept his cool while Romney became increasingly shrill. And all the Mitt posters saying he did well does not change that.
This is no “hyped up” religious controversy. Romney has been unable to explain why, until 2 years ago, his public position on abortion (pro choice, profunding) was at variance with the tenets of his religion. it is that simple. the reason why people continue to ask the question, and why it si relevant, is that he flip flopped on the issue just in time to seek to be the conservative, prolife standard bearer in 2008.
This is not about religion as far as I am concerned, although you seem to think it is, because you change the subject to a candidate of another party and cast aspersions on another religion. It is about 2 things: his position on a very important public policy issue, which has recently changed, and which needs to be explained which has not been done to the satisfaction of most prolifers; and his inability to keep his cool when being questioned on this same public policy issue vis a vis the position of his church by a conservative radio host.
Losing your cool with Jan Mikelson on the eve of the Ames straw poll may prove to be Romney’s Waterloo. He is perhaps the best known, and most widely listened to, of Iowa’s conservative talk show hosts. I repeat. He should have shown a little spine when dealing with the liberal Mike Wallace and his genuinely rude question. But he collapsed like a bowl of jello. Mitt Romney is not Presidential material, or at least he has shown no evidence of it thus far.
My perception of Mikelson was that he was trying to get Romney to answer the question and Romney kept trying to filibuster without giving an answer.
Regardless, Mikelson is not running for President. Romney is. Romney came off as thin-skinned. He is not my candidate, but I did indicate that I could vote for him if he is the nominee, but performances like his on Mikelson make that possibility, which is already a long shot, even less likely.
Getting into a fight with Mikelson on the eve of the Ames Straw poll is a bad strategic error for a guy who has to win big in that poll. If Romney has a disappointing showing, he is toast.
I do hope he lasts long enough to be in a debate with Fred Thompson, because if he can’t face Jan Mikelson and he runs away from Mike Wallace, FDT is going to eat his lunch.
The 'dustup' didn't occur until they were off the air. Jan Mikelson specifically said they were off the record. This is nothing more than a hit job by a hack journalist.
Some times it seems were only good enough to be a vote count for them; else wise get to the back of the bus!
I will never forget one time when I asked about some thing of the LDS that being undermined, and the reply to me was from FR was.
I don’t give a flying “f”! something like that with the F in it.
Well that remark said a lot and hurt a lot!
Things did change later for the better but the way things look to day you wonder if it was political expediency
I sure hope nobody in his camp thinks that all Mormons will vote for him just because hes a Mormon. To me, thats as silly as people NOT voting for him just because he is a Mormon.
Since you are a not a Mitt person you might not heard he cut back on fund raising this quater, to do a lot of one on one with the grassroots across America with the heartland you know the real people.
BTW those of us voting for Mitt it is not becasue he is LDS, it is because he is a good man, who is also a faithful to his Lord.
...and who would never think of self polishing his halo!
Why would one be agitated to comment on what his church stands for? It's part of the deal running for POTUS.
That because the things they do in their Temples have NO basis that can be found in their scriptures.
According to the Book of Mormon the golden plates were engraved by a pre-Columbian prophet-warrior named Mormon and his son Moroni (who after death protected the buried plates as the angel Moroni) in about the year 400 CE
As a youth,Joseph Smith, Jr. lived on his parents’ farm near Palmyra, New York a place and time noted for its participation in the Second Great Awakening and a “craze for treasure hunting.” Beginning in the early 1820s, he was paid to act as a “seer”, to use seer stones in (mostly unsuccessful) attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure. His contemporaries said he would put the stone in a white stovepipe hat, put his face over the hat to block the light, and then “see” the information in the reflections of the stone. His favored stone, chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg, was found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors. etc etc etc
These plates are said to be engraved in something called Reformed Egyptian. In 1830 nobody could read ancient Egyptian let alone reformed Egyptian, that so called language is but a concoction by Joseph Smith, a man who was steeped in superstitions.
This hokum goes on and on. There is some excuse for ignorant folks in the 19th century to accept stuff like this; but not in the present day.
No one likes to have their sincere beliefs shattered by cold logic and I feel bad for all the Mormons who have devoted their lives to the furtherance this exceedingly strange cult. They deserve better.
I am sorry the climate here is hard to read!:)
Ditto. It saddens me to see so-called conservatives here betray the Republican ideals on civil rights.
Almost always, the creative dedicated minority has made the world better.
-Martin King, Jr.-
Such a lot of that sentiment going on at FR these days...
The following was posted by one of the Romney supporters on 7/28:
It is no different than radical Islam who is forcing the world to comply and be a Muslims or die, will some Christian are acting in the same mode towards those who do not conform to be a Trintarian, they will go to hell!
Posted by a mormon apologist on 7/01:
Ampu, do you advocate the murder of those you disagree with on religion? (I cant help but picture beheadings here)
Posted by a mormon apologist on 7/01
You are despicable, disgusting, and a disgrace. If I think of more Ds that fit your kind, Ill post later. Dumba$$
Posted by a mormon apologist on 6/20
those who crucified our Lord. That is the company you are keeping when you level that charge, Enosh.
Posted by a mormon apologist on 6/19
The anti-Mormon mobs (which unfortunately are a lot of evangelical Christians
Posted by a Romney supporter on 5/29 Indeed, these threads are full of inexplicable hatred. Just be sure who the hatred is directed AT when you bemoan it.
Reminscent of the dubious Nathaniel: "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?"
Why do you people hate Mormons so much? Any faith can be ridiculed by outsiders--that takes no brain at all-- but even so, it hardly justifies the snarky attitude.
This is handling the press well?
Again asking Romney to come back to show, Mickelson offered, "I hope we can do this so we can expend some quality time on here rather than the sound bytes."
"No, I don't like coming on the air and having you go after me and my church," Romney testily responded.
"I'm not going after your church; I agree with your church!" Mickelson replied somewhat incredulously.
"I'm not running as a Mormon," Romney came back, "and I get a little tired of coming on a show like yours and having it all about Mormon."
"See, I don't mind about it being all about that," Mickelson explained.
"I do. I do," Romney struck back.
Defensive, evasive and "testy".
Maybe because he's running for President of the US, not bishop of his Church. Perhaps he'd like to be able to air his views on the real issues of the day and not waste time explaining his faith to dishonest skeptics who are merely playing gotcha.
Maybe because he knows that this whole setup was designed to feed the bigotry of anti-mormon prigs.
Have you seen the polls in Utah?
8 June 2007 - Utah State Republican Convention Presidential Straw Poll
|Fred Thompson (write-in)||15||1.16%|
|Stan Lockhart (write-in, newly elected Chair of the Utah GOP)||1||0.08%|
|Newt Gingrich (write-in)||1||0.08%|
There is no bigot like a "Christian" bigot. You need to grow up and learn some respect for your betters.