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Everyone today is just a Starbucks hippie. And they're all too clean! |
Posted on 08/07/2007 10:24:22 AM PDT by Contentions
Last Friday, RealClearPolitics ran in its lead feature spot an essay by Gregory Scoblete, a free-lance writer in New Jersey. The essay had the headline “The GOP, Ron Paul & Non-Interventionism,” and was subsequently commented upon by, among others, guest-blogger Stephen Bainbridge on Andrew Sullivan’s blog.
Scoblete’s premise is that, just as Barry Goldwater’s failed campaign for president led the Republican party to embrace a limited-government philosophy, so too Ron Paul’s presidential campaign today, doomed though it is, will cause the GOP to embrace his philosophy of “non-interventionism.” Scoblete goes on at great lengths to “distinguish non-interventionism from isolationism.” He writes, for example, “The former seeks a more rigorous and delimited definition of America’s interests, while the latter a walled garden that completely cuts America off from the world. Non-interventionists are not pacifists, but they do reserve war fighting for moments of actual national peril.”
(Excerpt) Read more at commentarymagazine.com ...
Gregory best lay off’n them funny brownies he’s been munchin’ on! ROTFLMAO!! Ron Paul?! LOL The little Ross Perot wannabee?! Hahahaha! Priceless!!
The Prime Directive. Life imitates Star Trek.
In that case I'll take Star Trek original rather than Star Trek PC.
Neo-con means new conservative. I ain’t new!! Been a conservative since I became politically aware as a kid.
In todays age it means Jew.
Course poor Max doesn't bother with the facts that Wilson's interventionist policies in the 1910's laid the groundwork for WWII. Nah, Max doesn't let facts get in the way of his rant. Great comments section at the bottom of Max's article. I don't think a lot of his readers agree with Max....
Even many libertarians dissent from Paul’s crabbed view of America’s role abroad: see, for instance, this Wall Street Journal article.
I know a lot of libertarians Max. And Randy Bartlett doesn't speak for anyone I know
I got to wonder though. Why is such an important fellow as Max writing a hit piece about Dr. Paul. I thought he was a 'gadfly' with a following of 'spammers'....
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win.” Mahatma Gandhi
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/08/goldwater_is_to_reagan_as_ron.html
The GOP, Ron Paul & Non-Interventionism
By Gregory Scoblete
In politics, ideas frequently spread like viruses. Even if their host succumbs, the ideas that animated them can survive to infect the body politic. Such was the certainly case with Arizona Senator Barry Goldwater. In the era of the Great Society, his limited government views were resoundingly rejected by the electorate in his 1964 presidential bid. Yet those same ideas eventually culminated in a very contagious outbreak - the Reagan revolution -16 years later.
Will there be a similar legacy for Texas congressman Ron Paul? Yes, Paul’s platform differs greatly from Goldwater’s and Paul is even more of a long shot than was Goldwater in winning the nomination, which was half of Goldwater’s great achievement, but we know one element of the comparison is already apt: Paul will not be President of the United States. But just as Goldwater’s limited government creed found a receptive public years later, one theme of Paul’s campaign will, with time, also carry the day: his embrace of non-interventionism.
Though he has garnered considerable Internet enthusiasm, Paul trails in all the major polls. He does not possess the name recognition of a Giuliani, the personal wealth of a Romney or the fame and establishment enthusiasm of a Thomson. He is derided by many conservative pundits as idiosyncratic, or worse, a paranoiac.
Yet, unlike the rest of the field, Paul possess a compelling foreign policy message of humility and restraint in the exercise of U.S. power. To say that such a message is unpopular, especially with the contemporary GOP, is an understatement. But it is a message increasingly vindicated by events and by the strategic realities of the post Cold War world.
During the May 15 debate in South Carolina, Paul wondered how Republicans were able to capture the presidency in 2000. “We talked about a humble foreign policy,” he said. “No nation-building; don’t police the world.” Paul, alone among GOP contenders, opposed the invasion of Iraq and has been a critic of the enterprise ever since.
Such restraint does not sit well with many conservatives intent on seizing what columnist Charles Krauthammer dubbed the “unipolar moment” of American ascendancy in a world without the Soviet Union. To them, only the maximalist goals espoused by President Bush in his second inaugural address are worthy of America. Neoconservative champions of an “American Empire” such as Council on Foreign Relations scholar Max Boot chafe at the notion that there are, or should be, limits to American power or that the American interest should be defined as anything less than a globe-spanning, benevolent imperium. Unfazed by our inability to pacify Iraq, neoconservatives like Norman Podhoretz (recently named as an advisor to the Giuliani campaign) are now agitating to expand the war into Iran.
Nor does Paul’s parsimony sit well with Democrats and liberals, whose predilection to use military force seems to increase as the relevancy of the mission to U.S. security decreases. Supposedly aghast by the civil war in Iraq, Democratic statesmen like Delaware Senator Joseph Biden want to insert the U.S. into Sudan. If you blanched at the President’s Second Inaugural, which pledged to erase tyranny from the pages of human memory, you won’t find much comfort in Barack Obama’s barely-less expansive formulation of America’s interests in Foreign Affairs.
Against such an overwhelming tide of grandiosity and hubris, it sounds farcical to suggest that non-interventionism will some day sway voters and find eventual electoral success. But it will.
First though, it’s important to distinguish non-interventionism from isolationism. The former seeks a more rigorous and delimited definition of America’s interests, while the latter a walled garden that completely cuts America off from the world. Non-interventionists are not pacifists, but they do reserve war fighting for moments of actual national peril. (Paul, for instance, voted to authorize war in Afghanistan in 2001.) They do not view the military as an instrument of social policy. If war is to be fought, non-interventionists demand a Congressional declaration of war to ensure that the conflict is one in which the nation’s resources are fully brought to bear.
Unlike isolationists, non-interventionists do not fear expanding and liberalizing trade (Paul has frequently said as much). Non-interventionists are confident in American strength and, unlike isolationists, are optimistic about America’s engagement with the world. What they do not seek, however, is dominion over it. Non-interventionists trust that Western values are persuasive on their own terms, and become correspondingly less so when they are imposed on societies at gunpoint. Finally, non-interventionists tend to possess a truly conservative skepticism about government and the malleability of human nature. They do not believe America should squander its blood and treasure as it pursues utopian schemes like “ridding the world of evil.”
The precise content of Paul’s campaign platform won’t be adopted, even many years down the road. With calls to withdraw from NATO and the UN, it’s far too radical. Yet the contours of his non-interventionist approach to foreign policy will ultimately win the day. For starters, thank President Bush. The invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq have exposed and discredited a number of dubious theories endorsed by the war’s advocates. It reminded us that the proper role of a military is to destroy states, not coax democratic ones from the rubble. Yet it also underscored that even if we were adept nation builders, an “American Empire” won’t protect us. Unraveled terror plots in the U.S. and Europe discredit the notion that “freedom is the antidote to terror” or that we must “fight them over there so they don’t come over here.”
When the Bush administration leaves office, it also will leave a list of serious foreign policy failures. The administration will pass off a military vastly weaker than the one it inherited and larger nuclear programs in North Korea and Iran. On the singular issue of Islamic terrorism, the record is largely abysmal. President Bush inherited one jihadist safe haven in a relatively weak state, Afghanistan. He will leave office with two safe havens: one in nuclear-armed Pakistan, the other in Iraq — in the heart of the oil-rich, increasingly unstable Middle East. Far from discredited and marginalized, our intelligence services warn that the ideology of radical Islam is enflamed. As the coup-de-grace, the administration is proposing to shower billions of dollars worth of advanced weaponry on the very Sunni autocrats responsible for whipping up the jihadist frenzy.
There will be a great incentive among politicians and policymakers to put a good deal of distance between themselves and this record. (Bush’s basement level approval ratings don’t help either.) But there is a deeper reason why non-interventionism will find more fertile soil years hence. America’s current global commitments reflect antiquated, Cold War-era priorities that will only become more untenable as time passes.
During that conflict, we subsidized the defense of the free world to deter Soviet adventurism and to allow the battered nations of World War II to focus resources on reconstruction. We undertook an interventionist foreign policy (in Korea, South East Asia, and the Middle East) to thwart the Kremlin’s ambitions.
Well, mission accomplished. Today, American military decampments in Asia and Europe reflect strategic entropy. With the Soviet Union resting comfortably on the ash heap of history, with much of the world free and democratic, there is no serious reason why the U.S. is still defending South Korea, Europe, Taiwan, Israel and the Gulf monarchies. Without exception, these nations possess the economic resources to sustain a modern military capable of meeting their unique security needs.
Paul argues for such a transfer of responsibility. With time, this chorus will grow because there is no threat to the U.S. on par with Soviet communism that necessitates the type of global posture America assumed during the Cold War. True, radical Islam is a serious global menace, but it is not one that will be beaten back with U.S. military bases and defense commitments to autocratic client-states. Indeed, many of the same policies so instrumental in containing communism - the use of proxies, reliance on pliant autocrats and an intrusive military posture - are now the very ones likely to exacerbate the current danger.
And besides, even if the U.S. does not consciously - and conscientiously - shift its policy to reflect this new reality, the retiring baby boomers will force such a change. Anyone with a passing familiarity with the federal budget and demographic trends knows that the U.S. cannot sustain both its mammoth defense budgets and its entitlements as the boomers retire en-masse. When forced to choose, it’s difficult to imagine baby boomers will prefer defending billionaire Saudi fundamentalists to Medicare.
Ron Paul’s rebuke of America’s current Cold War posture will be vindicated, but only when the costs of America’s commitments and their irrelevance to U.S. national security become clearer. Until such time, Paul, like Goldwater, will likely pass his time in Congress waiting for America’s political class to catch up.
Uh huh. Just like the libs taking a stand and waiting years to be "vindicated".
I tend to think of a clock that stops twice a day.
High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]
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How can that be if Ron Paul would embrace the policies of Wilson over those of Ronald Reagan
HE: And under President Reagan we built up our defenses., we built up all these anti-communist insurgencies in Afghanistan, in Nicaragua, we putting the Pershings into Western Europe, etc., etc. The point is: Would you have supported any of those of measures, on the grounds that you are… we shouldn’t have done any of this because it would be provoking, somehow, that which would come back and haunt us?RP: I don’t think that policy has served us well. I think that…
HE: The Reagan Doctrine hasn’t served us well?
RP: Well, I would go back to the Wilson Doctrine. [Indiscernible talking in background]You can’t isolate WWII and post-WWII without looking at the overall change of policy after WWI.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21840
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Everyone today is just a Starbucks hippie. And they're all too clean! |
“I tend to think of a clock that stops twice a day.”
You must mean a stopped clock, which is right twice a day?
Really? Where did you get that nonsense. Irving Kristol explained it himself a few years ago. Didn't see 'Jew' anywhere in his explanation....
Irving Kristol reveals the true meaning of neoconservatism
What I did see is a support and love of big government and interfering in everyone else's business. Course Max and the boys have made it clear they have no problem with big government either..
You know, for a model I’d go back to Bob LaFolette if I were Ron. He was a Republican, so adamently anti-war TR thought he should be hung. And he’s a hero to parts of the anti-war progressives today.
HE: And under President Reagan we built up our defenses., we built up all these anti-communist insurgencies in Afghanistan, in Nicaragua, we putting the Pershings into Western Europe, etc., etc. The point is: Would you have supported any of those of measures, on the grounds that you are… we shouldn’t have done any of this because it would be provoking, somehow, that which would come back and haunt us?------------------------------------------------------------
RP: I don’t think that policy has served us well. I think that…
HE: The Reagan Doctrine hasn’t served us well?
No, you've got it all wrong. 'Neoconservative' means a conservative who remains fiscally conservative domestically, but has embraced a liberal foreign policy. 'Liberal' in the classic sense of the word. So, as far as foreign policy, there are actually 'NeoLiberals', but since they still believe in free markets and capitalism as the means to their globalist ends, they are called 'Neoconservatives'.
And the article's right, we are all neoconservatives now...we're all globalists too. All, that is, except for the few paleoconservatives like Buchanan, Paul, etc.
It means 'new conservative'. Whatever connotations one wishes to put on that phrase is up to him/her. Obviously, there are differing connotations.
Neo-cons are those who believe that the US military should be a global nanny, keeping the peace, building kindergartens and hospitals, spreading goodwill, etc.
Old conservatives are more along the lines of Theodore Roosevelt's foreign policy of “Speak softly and carry a big stick...”. In other words, don’t tell people how to run their countries, but if they cross you, make them wish they hadn’t.
I don’t know which you are, but Bush is a neo-con while Paul is an old fashioned conservative.
exactly-—interventionism is more of the cause of problems than isolationism.
look at Iran-—if we hadn’t started messing around in Iran in the 1950s and helping the shah seize power from a democratically elected government, there would have been no Islamic revolution in 1979
What Long Island Pete said isn’t far off.
Of course Neocon doesn’t actually mean jew... however in the context it is today mostly used (in leftist or isolationist circles) it is an enigma for jewish Republican, jewish hawk or simply anyone supporting Israel and the WoT.
It is the Left’s new alibi to avoid being labelled antisemitic.
he is right.
how has helping the Islamic insurgents in Afghanistan in the 1980s helped America? or Americans? or did it just help lay the groundwork for the taliban and Al-Quaeda?
and Nicaragua? who the heck cares if Nicaragua was communist?
I don’t see what business it was of ours
But when Ron Paul says I would go back to the Wilson Doctrine. I'm to believe he really doesn't mean he'd go back to the Wilson Doctrine as he said, but in fact is laying our problem at the feet of Wilson's actions which laid the groundwork for WWII.
Either he has to say what he means, or his supporters have to make the code for the decoder rings available to all.
Why is it every time Ron Paul says something, he doesn't mean it according to his supporters?
That is a rather incoherent interview. My favorite
HE: Follow-up -- thank you -- follow-up question. [Laughter] Take two minutes and tell me the people that you would name to your cabinet or to your official family.RP: Probably, I won’t do a very good job of that because I haven’t thought that through and there are certainly a lot of friends and –
HE: Well, before you name the cabinet people, what cabinet departments would you want to have remain?
RP: Well I guess we could have a Justice Department. I guess we could have a State Department, and I guess we could have a Defense Department, and maybe one or two others more but not many more than that. I mean… We need to think about a Republican form of government. I believe in a republic -- little “R” republic -- and we don’t need a Department of Education and a Department of Energy. We used to win elections on that but not any more. We doubled the size of all those programs.
I won't do a very good job of that [selecting cabinet members], but I've got a lot of friends.
Presidential timber all right.
If you really believe this you are in need of an history lesson: Mossadegh (the prime minister) was an anti-semitic socialist cooperating with the Tudeh party (communists) and Islamists (Ayatollah Kashani) to topple the pro-American, pro-Western, pro-Israeli Shah. It was during the height of the cold War and his socialist agenda would have plunged Iran with all it's strategic significance into the arms of the Soviets. Mossadegh was abusing his power and had dictatorical ambitions. He overstepped the constitution and was amassing power. One of his first acts was also to revert the recognition of Israel. Thank God for the elegant and succesfull coup by the CIA, the Imperial Iranian Army and the Shah and General Zahedi. Without the 1953 counter-revolution Iran would have become an Islamist-Socialist Soviet pawn already 26 years before.
Current conventional wisdom regarding foreign policy isn’t right even that often. Indeed our current political leaders have shown an almost inhuman ability to be wrong 100% of the time.
BTW the saying is "even a broken clock is right twice a day." What you said doesn't make any sense.
Why don't they allow David Duke to write in their periodical? I forgot! They already have Taki Theocrapolus (sp).
“A clock that stops twice a day can only be right once” Mike Brady
Well you could listen to his speeches instead of a badly worded interview. But to listen to his speeches you may realize you've been supporting nonsense for much longer than you care to admit. Even the exchange you quoted was clear.
"Are you saying the Reagan Doctrine was wrong? No, I would go back to the Wilson Doctrine."
I don't see how anyone could take that to mean otherwise than the Wilson Doctrine was the first mistake and everything has gotten worse since.
Bwahhhaaa! Of course!
Of course this is all Eisenhower's fault, Carter's embrach of Khomeini had nothing at all to do with it.
RP: I don’t think that policy has served us well. I think that…
HE: The Reagan Doctrine hasn’t served us well?
In my mind, he clearly is saying the Reagan Doctrine didn't serve us well, and that he'd revert back to Wilson. The question involved Reagan policies, not a review of 20th century foreign policy.
You seem to be saying that Paul meant America's foreign policy has been going to *ell in a handbasket since Wilson, decaying further under Reagan. That would be more consistent with Paul's positions in my view, simply not what he said. I can't see him supporting Wilson's foreign policy any more than Reagan's.
When any lib mentions a Neo Con they always seem to mention a person who is Jewish. I for one am not the only person who has noticed this. Mark Levin mentions it all the time.
What does that make me? I became fully Conservative after 9-11.
A realist.
Heh. I was more a centrist, being Canadian, it’s difficult to stop the brainwashing. However, I don’t think I was sufficiently brainwashed to not see reality for what it was. 9-11 pushed me very hard to the right. Perhaps I was Conservative all along, but didn’t know it.
Exactly. And knowing Paul's stance as you do, I can't see how you would see it any other way. The problem however is that some who don't know his stance could see it as you first suggested.
That’s a fairly common theme among many folks I know. For me, it wasn’t until I was married and looked at how much $ the FedGov took from our combined income. After we had a child it became even more clear. After 9-11 there was no other logical, survivable choice.
first of all
1) he was not trying to topple the shah. he was the elected prime minister. the shah was an unelected tyrant
2.) the idea that he was a communist front man was a creation of British intelligence. The Anglo-Persian oil company stood to lose a fortune if he nationalized Iran’s oil wealth-—so they went out of the way to make sure that the UK, not Iran, would control the oil there. The British tried to sell this to truman, but he didn’t buy it. He saw right through the smoke screen the brits created. Eisenhower did bite, however, when all kinds of manufactured evidence (that even you are buying into, 50 years later) was layed out for him
3. I do not care one iota if Mossadegh liked or disliked Israel. he was an elected leader, and we should have respected that. On top of that, Mossadegh wanted good relations with the US.
4. How can you say that Mossadegh “had dictatorial ambition and was abusing his power” when you are defending his overthrow by a military coup that installed a tyrannical monarch with a hideous human rights record?
Then you would qualify as a neo-con, or whatever newly converted are called up in Canada.
PS: I’m more paleo than neo. I suspect that most conservatives here are paleo as well.
1) Yes he was trying to topple the Shah, abolish the monarchy and establish a “republic”.
His supporters from the “Jebhe Melli” destroyed royal symbols throughout Tehran. hand in hand with the communist mobs from the forbidden Tudeh.
Ironically 30 years prior, in 1923 when Reza Khan (later Reza Shah Pahlavi) was Prime Minister, the then member of Parliament Mossadegh was the only one, apart from the islamist Aytollah Modaress to oppose the abolition of the corrupt and vile Qajar dynasty. Back then Reza Khan tried to make Persia a secular republic (after the model of Turkey) but it was the islamists and those “loyal to the constitution” (which prescribed a Qajar monarchy) like Mossadegh who prevented it. Bowing to the pressure from the clergy and othe opponents of a republic Reza Khan decided to keep the Monarchy and became the first Pahlavi Shah in 1925.
2)He was a socialist, cooperating with Soviet pawns from the Tudeh party and Kashani Islamists. This was more than just Brit propaganda. He may have been elected, but he was a threat nontheless. 1953 was the peak of the cold war. The Soviets have been expelled from Iran just shortly (1946) and the communists were a constant threat in Iran. The deposing of the Monarch in 1953 would have signified an incredibly weak Iran in face of an aggressive Soviet Union.
This is a what if scenario. But from US, UK, Western standpoint the decision to support the Shah is obvious.
3)The USA has to respect it’s interests and those of it’s
allies. Israel is an ally and the Shah was an ally.
4) Mossadegh gave himself dicatorial and
extraordinary powers in spite of the constitution.
Even elected politicans can turn into tyrants.
The Shah was the constitutional head of state and CiC.
Yes, he later turned into an autocrat with unchecked
powers and established in 1976 a one-party rule
(Rastakhiz), however this was well after the 1953 coup.
” Bush is a neo-con while Paul is an old fashioned conservative.”
If Bush publishes false accusations against America during war-time, and adopts a blame-America-first mindset, will he be an ‘old fashion conservative’ like Ron Paul?
LOL, up here we are affectionately known as 'Scum'.
I on the other hand would call our state department un American in the sense that they consistently provide funds and support to regimes and ideologues who are anti American. How do you explain Washington's support for FATA or China?
The enemy of our enemy is not always our friend, but Washington hasn’t yet figured that simple lesson out.
Neo-Cons are some of the stupidest people on the planet. They just don’t realize it.
“Obviously you think it’s just great that the US state department supports brutal dictatorships and arms jehadists and others that later become our enemies. “
I sure do. History has shown this can greatly reduce casulties and achive a primary objective. This is why we stopped at the Elbe and allowed the Russians to sacrifice 300,000+ casulties in their efforts to take Berlin.
“Any criticism of that and you call the critic un American.”
Um, no I don’t.
“How do you explain Washington’s support for FATA or China?”
Define ‘support’.
“Neo-Cons are some of the stupidest people on the planet. They just don’t realize it.”
I think the bigger question is, if a neo-con becomes a isolationist shrimp salesman, is the person still a neo-con?
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