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This day in History 1945: Atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki
History.com ^ | August 9, 2007 | Staff

Posted on 08/09/2007 3:18:57 AM PDT by abb

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To: SunkenCiv

Good morning, SunkenCiv.

I understand what you are saying. My grand-uncle, a planter in Burma, had his land confiscated and his labor force killed during the attempted Japanese invasion of Burma and NE India. After he lost everything to the Japanese, the man moved to Singapore after that city-state was liberated and made his second million.

Thanks for adding the list to your profile page; gives it a lot of visibility. As “undocumented Americans” (/sarc) say, Muchas Gracias.


51 posted on 08/09/2007 6:08:53 AM PDT by indcons
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To: abb
The first massive invasion occurring in the Southern islands after 1 Nov 1945 (Olympic - 4 Corps) we would have been preceded by nukes at approximately a two week interval (The speed at which we could produce them). Sometime after 1 April 1946 (Cornet - 5 Corps) the second massive invasion would have occurred a little south of Tokyo. In all it was planned to nuke Japan between 7 and 9 times and come in with a force of more than 9 Corps. They quit after the second.
52 posted on 08/09/2007 6:10:34 AM PDT by Red6 (Come and take it.)
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To: magslinger

I will never forget.

LLS


53 posted on 08/09/2007 6:14:10 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims!)
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To: indcons
As has been recounted before on FR and elsewhere, the US firebombed over 45 cities (I think it was 48), including Tokyo, before dropping the first Bomb. And Japan wouldn't surrender. And the first Bomb didn't convince 'em to surrender. It took a second Bomb, and even with that, a group of Japanese officers tried to kidnap the Emperor, stop the surrender broadcast from going out, and force Japan to fight on. When a group of US bombers was spotted in the night skies, as a precaution the power was shut down, the would-be kidnappers got lost in the darkened palace, and the broadcast went out on schedule. :')
The Last Mission: The Secret History of World War IIs Final Battle The Last Mission:
The Secret History of World War II's Final Battle

by Jim Smith
and Malcolm McConnell

paperback

54 posted on 08/09/2007 6:19:27 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Thursday, August 9, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: AnAmericanMother

GOD bless them all!

LLS


55 posted on 08/09/2007 6:21:01 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims!)
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To: SunkenCiv
My F-I-L had that book.

He knew a lot of folks at the Pentagon (he continued in the Reserves after the war and retired as a bird colonel) and he said so far as he could determine that story was accurate.

Didn't surprise him one bit. He said the Japs were fanatics to a degree we couldn't even imagine.

56 posted on 08/09/2007 6:24:44 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: weegee

Yes, I believe so. There was a test in the desert that I’m sure we’ve all seen pictures.


57 posted on 08/09/2007 6:56:12 AM PDT by caver (Yes, I did crawl out of a hole in the ground.)
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To: AnAmericanMother; Dixie Yooper; LibLieSlayer; pikachu

Similar here. My grandfather was a Marine trained as a forward artillery spotter. He would have been in on of the first waves ashore and my mother probably would not have been born.


58 posted on 08/09/2007 6:57:37 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: AnAmericanMother; SunkenCiv

Towards the end of the war, Japanese Army factions led by Col. Tsuji tried to kidnap the Emperor so that he wouldn’t accede to demands of surrender. This was supposed to have been foiled at the last minute on the initiative of the palace.

Some historians claim that Emp. Hirohito tried his level best to prevent war with the Allies but was overruled by the Army. I don’t know what to make of this claim for various reasons.

On a related note: the world seems to be ignoring China’s militaristic behavior at the current time as it ignored Japan’s in the early part of the last century (even after Japan completed a comprehensive victory over Tsarist Russia in the Russo-Japanese War of 1905).


59 posted on 08/09/2007 6:59:40 AM PDT by indcons
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To: LibLieSlayer
and ALL of their AMERICAN offspring that were born because their fathers did not die invading the Japanese homeland!

I believe I'm one of them. My Father would have went into Japan had a ground invasion been ordered.
60 posted on 08/09/2007 7:10:21 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Stop that!)
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To: LibLieSlayer
Hiroshima and Nagasaki both leave me with a warm and fuzzy feeling, when I think of ALL of the AMERICANS that survived because of these bombs.

Don't forget all of the Japanese that survived because of the bombs. Japanese casualties would have been in the millions if the Allies had had to invade.

61 posted on 08/09/2007 7:10:58 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: TalonDJ
My grandfather was a Marine trained as a forward artillery spotter

After taking part in the invasion of the Marshall Islands,my Dad was a forward spotter for a AAA installation on an island "you could throw a stone across". He had special type of depth perception that worked well with the scope they used. That was pretty much all he would ever talk about. He never shared anything about the night of the invasion of the Marshall Islands.

62 posted on 08/09/2007 7:13:09 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: abb

Shall we resurrect the Japanese army film footage of the rape of Nanking with brave Japanese soldiers bayonetting babies and shooting everyone in sight? That one incident killed over 200,000 chinese. The Japanese civilian population completely and mindlessly supported the war efforts and they received the consideration they were due when the bombs were dropped and the casualties included them—NONE.


63 posted on 08/09/2007 7:25:26 AM PDT by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: LibLieSlayer

My father falls into that category. He had completed a tour in the ETO with the 319th BG and the group was moved to Okinawa shortly afterward. His group dropped leaflet bombs on Japan the week before warning of a devastating attack if they did not immediately surrender. He might not have been as lucky in the Pacific as he was in Europe. Better a million dead Japanese than one more allied death.


64 posted on 08/09/2007 7:32:56 AM PDT by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: abb

A prayer for the innocents who died that day.


65 posted on 08/09/2007 7:34:32 AM PDT by Diocletian
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To: indcons
Thanks, indcons. If you project what happened in the Okinawa campaign to the Japanese home islands, it becomes very clear that Hiroshima and Nagasaki resulted in a net saving of Japanese lives, possibly millions, not to mention the G.I.'s who got to come home alive.
66 posted on 08/09/2007 8:51:07 AM PDT by colorado tanker (I'm unmoderated - just ask Bill O'Reilly)
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To: AnAmericanMother

:’)


67 posted on 08/09/2007 8:51:20 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Thursday, August 9, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: indcons

One war at a time. :’) My view is that we should (and probably are) building a LOT of antisub smart weapons, including little gizmos which seek out and attach to enemy subs, then blow them to the bottom without warning. And missile defense isn’t just about Muzzie fanatics and North Korea. :’)


68 posted on 08/09/2007 8:57:00 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Thursday, August 9, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: abb

Actually, there weren’t. If I recall, they only had one morwe ready to go.


69 posted on 08/09/2007 9:03:22 AM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: PAR35

True today... but then it did not matter.

LLS


70 posted on 08/09/2007 9:09:58 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims!)
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To: RJS1950; TalonDJ; reagan_fanatic; PAR35

GOD bless your fathers and you!

LLS


71 posted on 08/09/2007 9:12:33 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims!)
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To: PzLdr

Here’s what Gen. Groves had to say about a third bomb.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB162/67.pdf

I believe we would have found a way to fabricate several more bombs purty damn quick if we had needed them. I would be interested to see any research on how many bombs were built immediately after hostilities ceased and when they were ready to deliver.


72 posted on 08/09/2007 9:19:53 AM PDT by abb (The Dinosaur Media: A One-Way Medium in a Two-Way World)
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To: abb

I don’t think the problem was fabricating the bombs, but making sufficient fissionable material for them.


73 posted on 08/09/2007 11:29:20 AM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: abb

I don’t think the problem was fabricating the bombs, but making sufficient fissionable material for them.


74 posted on 08/09/2007 11:29:24 AM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: tanknetter
Instead, children kept in the cities were used as laborers on military projects...

My high school aged father-in-law was sent from his family farm to work in the naval shipyard at Sasebo.

75 posted on 08/09/2007 2:13:43 PM PDT by GATOR NAVY (Hey! Must be a devil between us)
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To: PzLdr

Found some more information here:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB162/72.pdf


76 posted on 08/09/2007 2:14:31 PM PDT by abb (The Dinosaur Media: A One-Way Medium in a Two-Way World)
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To: abb

Unlucky Nagasaki got nuked because the primary target, Kokura (now part of the city of Kitakyushu) was obscured by cloud cover that morning.


77 posted on 08/09/2007 2:24:37 PM PDT by GATOR NAVY (Hey! Must be a devil between us)
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To: GATOR NAVY

Yes. I had read about that somewhere once before. What I did learn new today after doing a bit of research, is that another bomb was almost ready to ship out to Tinian and several more were in the pipeline. Years ago, I had read that Little Boy and Fat Man were the only bombs in existence. From the memo at the last link I posted, it seems there was debate as to whether the bombs should be used strategically or tactically in tandem with Operation Downfall.


78 posted on 08/09/2007 2:32:09 PM PDT by abb (The Dinosaur Media: A One-Way Medium in a Two-Way World)
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To: caver

Initially there was Trinity, the province. There was just enough fissionable material, both U238 and Plutonium for just one bomb each. There where plans for more but they weren’t made yet the time of the bombing.


79 posted on 08/09/2007 2:45:37 PM PDT by OregonRancher
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To: OregonRancher

Another bomb was almost ready and several were in the pipeline.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB162/72.pdf


80 posted on 08/09/2007 2:51:24 PM PDT by abb (The Dinosaur Media: A One-Way Medium in a Two-Way World)
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To: abb

War crimes and the whiners who make excuses for them.


81 posted on 08/09/2007 2:55:47 PM PDT by Romulus (Quomodo sedet sola civitas plena populo.)
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To: tanknetter
making them legitimate military targets.

That reminded me of my first Firearm instructors words,

"If you can't bring yourself to defend yourself against
an 11 year old boy with a gun, get the hell out of my classroom"!
The point was made very clear.

/Salute

82 posted on 08/09/2007 2:56:57 PM PDT by MaxMax (God Bless America)
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To: abb

Please read my post.


83 posted on 08/09/2007 3:21:30 PM PDT by OregonRancher
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To: magslinger
You neglected to mention training to repel invaders with bamboo pikes and satchel charges. When I was in Japan I had some very sobering discussions with a guy who was 12 when the war ended. He credited Harry S with saving his life.

I'm fortunate that I live within an easy drive of the National Air and Space Museum's Udvar-Hazy Center, where Enola Gay rests as one of the star attractions.

This was the first year since she went on display in late 2003 that I missed being there on 8/6. I think everyone on this thread will be pleased to know that in the previous two years that I was there the number of "counter-protesters" (more accurately described as those there to keep a VERY vigilant watch over the protesters) outnumbered the anti-nuke nutters by about a 10-1 ratio.

One of NASM's many great Docents is a retired USAF Col. named Scott Willey. Col. Willey is, iirc, the resident expert on the PTO in WWII ... he even had an article written about him in an edition of Air & Space Magazine. He's also the one who, on 8/6 takes over the museum tour when it reaches Enola Gay ... since the protesters like to heckle and jeer whichever Docent is leading the group. His smack-down of them is really a thing of beauty -- nothing like watching as 200 people get a kick out of an extremely well-informed retired USAF Col. verbally kicking the living cr*p out of 20 or so ignorants whose knowledge of events doesn't go much further than their well-practiced chants.

Last year I grabbed Col. Willey after he finished his lecture to ask him a question about the Seiran that's on display under the Enola Gay's starboard wing. The Seiran is the sole survivor of the type, a float-plane bomber which was designed to collapse down and be carried on specially built submarine aircraft carriers.

Col. Willey told me a great story about how, when the Seiran was being restored, the former Japanse CO of the WWII Seiran unit came by NASM's Garber restoration facility in MD. The museum kept in contact with him and when the Dulles Center opened invited him out to see, and sit in, the restored aircraft on display.

Someone asked the Japanese veteran what he thought of one of "his" planes sitting under the wing of the Enola Gay. He responded by saying that at the time of the atomic bombs and resultant surrender his unit was aboard the submarines heading towards a suicide/kamikaze attack against the US carrier anchorage at Ulithi Atoll, and they were called back once Japan threw in the towel. According to Col. Willey, he pointed up to the Enola Gay and said "That plane not only saved my life ... it saved my country".
84 posted on 08/09/2007 5:14:49 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: NavVet

Indeed. The Japanese got off light.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP3.HTM


85 posted on 08/10/2007 5:11:57 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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