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Why the Democrats Caved (On the Surveillance Bill)
Real Clear Politics ^ | August 10, 2007 | E. J. Dionne

Posted on 08/09/2007 10:18:29 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Shortly before noon last Saturday, about 20 House Democrats huddled in Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office to decide what to do about a surveillance bill that had been dumped on them by the Senate before it left town.

Many of the Democrats were furious. They believed they had negotiated in good faith with Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence. They sought to give the Bush administration the authority it needed to intercept communications involving foreign nationals in terrorism investigations while preserving some oversight.

But the administration held out for granting McConnell and Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales more power while seriously circumscribing the role of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. The Senate's Democratic leadership, lacking the votes to pass a measure more to the House's liking, gave the administration what it wanted.

At one point, according to participants in the Pelosi meeting, the passionate discussion veered toward the idea of standing up to the administration -- even at the risk of handing President Bush a chance to bash Democrats on "national security," as is his wont.

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California; US: Texas; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 110th; bush; congress; ejdionne; fisa; fisacourt; gop; homelandsecurity; nancypelosi; presidentbush; quantico; surveillancebill; wot
Poor wittle democwats was fooled by big, bad Pwesident Bush. These guys claim he's a moron, yet he runs roughshod over them....something doesn't add up here.
1 posted on 08/09/2007 10:18:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Mama Boss Pelosi and Dingy Harry are incompetent. They can't even stand up to a President they view as stupid.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

2 posted on 08/09/2007 10:20:32 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

In my mind I see the Democrats with a big whatzit from Acme that has blown up in their faces, and Bush moving down the road going “Meep! Meep!”


3 posted on 08/09/2007 10:20:57 PM PDT by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
dumped on them by the Senate

Ah yes, the Senate - quintessential dumpers they are.

Hey, let's put one in the WH! /sarc

4 posted on 08/09/2007 10:30:09 PM PDT by quantim (The U.S. 110th Congress is the first duly elected 'Politburo' of the new millennium.)
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To: quantim
For E.J Dionne - its back to doom and gloom. Just where the Left is most comfortable.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

5 posted on 08/09/2007 10:31:44 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

GW once again outsmarted the democrats. Yeah, he is a lame duck POTUS. Can’t get anything done. Surge is working and we are winning despite the efforts of the democrats and MSM to derail Iraq, intelligence bill passed. Proud GW is my POTUS.


6 posted on 08/09/2007 10:32:31 PM PDT by jrooney (The democrats are the friend of our enemy and the enemy of our friends. Attack them, not GW!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
....something doesn't add up here.

That will always be the case if Democrats are involved.

7 posted on 08/09/2007 10:40:38 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

In trying to defend the utterly incompetent dems, this article makes them look even stupider than they actually are. If that’s possible.


8 posted on 08/09/2007 10:42:21 PM PDT by hsalaw
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
about 20 House Democrats huddled in Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office

On the second read of the article, my olfactory, auditory, and visual senses shut down in self-defense.

Just can't imagine the smell, sounds, sights of that scene.

9 posted on 08/09/2007 10:48:55 PM PDT by quantim (The U.S. 110th Congress is the first duly elected 'Politburo' of the new millennium.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
...something doesn't add up here.

That's because the whole wire tapping scandal has been one of the biggest snow jobs ever played on the American People by the left.

The Dims in Congress know how we gather Intel (there are no wire taps, nobody is placing bugs, it's nothing like what Hollywood makes up). The left used the fact that how we gather Intel is so classified the Administration or anyone else "in the know" can not defend or comment on it. The left has been able to make all the unfounded accusations and made up "facts" they have wanted to for the past six years with the full knowledge that they could never be called on it because the Intel community can never confirm or most importantly deny any statement about intelligence gathering.

10 posted on 08/09/2007 10:58:01 PM PDT by txroadkill ( http://iraqstar.org)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; All

Here’s my 2 cents:

This was a setup. The dems who are running for the WH had to vote against this because of their “kook” constituents.

However, the other dems could vote for the program - which also keeps the dems off the hook - JUST IN CASE THERE’S ANOTHER ATTACK.

For the left - POLITICS RULES AS USUAL.


11 posted on 08/09/2007 11:00:56 PM PDT by CyberAnt (America: THE GREATEST NATION on the face of the earth!)
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To: CyberAnt

I’m worried it’s more like when it’s another attack - soon. :(


12 posted on 08/09/2007 11:10:38 PM PDT by txhurl
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"The Republicans have never met a national security issue they're not willing to politicize."

LMAO!!!
Dionne is pathetic.

13 posted on 08/09/2007 11:27:11 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The reason the rats are so concerned with all this “surveillance” stuff is because they know what THEY would do with the power - - they would use it as a dirt-gathering tool against Republicans (making Hillary’s FBI files look like a kid’s fifth-grade crib sheet). They therefore fear that that is exactly what Bush is doing to THEM.

Guess what? I sure hope he is.


14 posted on 08/09/2007 11:36:27 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yep, he’s the most incredibly stupid, evil genius ever!

He can get thousands of people to participate in the massacre of thousands of people and hired them all to act as false witnesses, by paying them a coupla bucks—perhaps he had Cheney use his evil death ray eyebeams to hypnotize. He even got people to act as terrorized passengers on remote controlled planes. 911 Centers, the airlines, police, and fire—they all were paid off.

He not only did all that, but he managed to plan it all, and get everyone on board, while sitting in the Governor’s Mansion in Texas. And ALL under the bloodhoundish, terrorist sniffing nose of the smartest man and woman in the WORLD, Bill and Hillary Clinton!

He is amazing.

Amazing and stupid. I mean he can’t even string a sentence together without an um or an er. Oh, and have you heard the way he pronounces nuclear? Only a moron would do that! He doesn’t read the New York Times or watch Hardball! I mean c’mon! I bet Karl Rove has to dress him in the morning....

OK, I’m done now. My head hurts. Moonbattery also leaves a most unpleasant taste in one’s mouth. No wonder they always look so unhappy.


15 posted on 08/09/2007 11:58:05 PM PDT by Shelayne (I will continue to pray for President Bush and my country, as I am commanded to do by my Lord.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Poor wittle democwats was fooled by big, bad Pwesident Bush. These guys claim he’s a moron, yet he runs roughshod over them....something doesn’t add up here.”

It adds up. It is called strategery and Bush has been using it since 2001. He has beaten the Democrats on pretty much everything in the last 6 years. Meanwhile, we call him stupid everytime he does something that upsets the base.

What doesn’t “add up” is everytime the base is ready to fall apart, Bush does something “stupid” and the base comes together to save the country.

And everytime there is an issue that is important to the base, Bush comes through.


16 posted on 08/10/2007 12:00:07 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (When O'Reilly comes out from under his desk, tell him to give me a call. Hunter/Thompson in 08.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
pelosi and company are in the perfect party ... they're all asses.

All she's ever done is smile that embarassed smile and try to act like a den mother to her cub pack.

I respect a politician, and I can't think of a one in the democrat party.

They're all line jumping bully's with the personality of a 3 year old not getting his way in the toy store.

They all need a good spankin' and priveleges revoked.

Vote 'em out, you Blue dogs.

17 posted on 08/10/2007 1:08:08 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: hsalaw
...even stupider than they actually are. If that’s possible.

Depends, is stoopid relative or absolute? Sliding scale or black and white.
18 posted on 08/10/2007 1:59:22 AM PDT by carumba (The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. Groucho)
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To: All
ROLL CALL.com: "CAPITOL POLICE BOOST SECURITY TO DEAL WITH THREAT OF PRE-SEPT. 11 ATTACK BY AL-QAIDA" by John McArdie (BRIEF: "Capitol Police officials have stepped up the department's security presence on Capitol Hill in response to intelligence indicating the increased possibility of an al-Qaida terrorist attack on Congress sometime between now and Sept. 11.") (August 3, 2007, 00:16 a.m.)

19 posted on 08/10/2007 2:35:59 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I wanna know if Piglosi had her babushka on when they all met in her office-seems appropriate under the circumstances.

Rumor has it that that dirty little ba$tard, Karl Lenin, is visiting Michigan this week talking about the importance of national security. Not sure if true, I did find something slimy under a rock I picked up. Could it be that the democrat trash realize that they're getting backed into a corner on national security? National health care, higher taxes, diminution of civil liberties all may seem like better issues to run on then the scimitar at the throat.

20 posted on 08/10/2007 3:06:55 AM PDT by RushLake (Democrats/MSM have never met a terrorist they didn't like.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
At one point, according to participants in the Pelosi meeting, the passionate discussion veered toward the idea of standing up to the administration -- even at the risk of handing President Bush a chance to bash Democrats on "national security," as is his wont.

Can the democrats point to ONE American whose life has been seriously distrubed in any way by our use of surveillance post-9-11?

A simple question. I wonder if the dems can answer simply.

21 posted on 08/10/2007 3:25:38 AM PDT by Darkwolf377 (FRED '08! (Use caps, it bugs the haters))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The Republicans have never met a national security issue they're not willing to politicize.

cough...sputter...gasp...

And the Democrats DON'T politicize national security????

22 posted on 08/10/2007 3:30:29 AM PDT by Darkwolf377 (FRED '08! (Use caps, it bugs the haters))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

In my humble opinion, the Dems have made their plight even worse by letting this legislation sunset in 6 months. The reality is that 6 months from now the whole process will repeat itself with the legislation being re-approved by Congress and the left-wing will go nuts again. The Dems would have been better off to approve the legislation for a few years and then they would only have to deal with a PO’d base once. This is now the gift that keeps on giving.


23 posted on 08/10/2007 4:25:30 AM PDT by NRG1973
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
E. J. never answers his own question, as to why the Democrats caved on this. The answer is.....the recent and rapidly growing success of the surge in Iraq.

There, that's pretty simple isn't it? The Party bet on the wrong side in this war, and thus find themselves facing a train wreck. The DLC is emboldened, and is now taking over. The moderates in the party are now speaking up, probably words to the effect of "I told you so...."

24 posted on 08/10/2007 4:37:50 AM PDT by wayoverontheright
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
25 posted on 08/10/2007 5:22:05 AM PDT by b4its2late (I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect.)
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To: Lancey Howard
"The Republicans Democrats have never met a national security any issue they're not willing to politicize."

Fixed it.

26 posted on 08/10/2007 5:48:10 AM PDT by libs_kma (www.imwithfred.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“something doesn’t add up here.”

Democrats are trying to defend the indefensible. They actually contemplated arguing against a stronger surveilence program to thwart terrorism. They’re stupid but not that stupid. This is what happens when you have no convictions, when it comes time to vote you don’t know what to do.


27 posted on 08/10/2007 6:08:29 AM PDT by teddyballgame (red man in a blue state)
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To: CyberAnt

and, they get another crack at it in 6 months.

We have congressionally imposed government by weekly meeting and quarterly policy change.


28 posted on 08/10/2007 6:12:49 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Happiness is a down sleeping bag)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Pelosi and Reid simply didn't have the votes to pass a more restrictive bill, and the bill that was passed did have the votes.

The Dems who opposed this could have filibustered it in the Senate, but that would have likely been even more embarrassing to their party.

The media and the Dems have mischaracterized this program in their attempts to attack Bush, and that is now backfiring on them. They lied to the moonbat left about this and now those moonbats feel betrayed.

The Dems have gotten to where they are by lying and blindly opposing Bush. Attacking someone else dishonestly puts you in a bad position when it is your turn to lead. If the Dems don't find a way to disguise their own incompetence things will not go well for them in '08.

29 posted on 08/10/2007 6:47:15 AM PDT by untrained skeptic
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To: NRG1973
The reality is that 6 months from now the whole process will repeat itself with the legislation being re-approved by Congress and the left-wing will go nuts again. ....... This is now the gift that keeps on giving.


30 posted on 08/10/2007 9:37:43 AM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (NY Times: "fake but accurate")
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To: goldstategop

“...Several members ... expressed openness to having Congress stay in town to fight... But the moment passed... [and] the House sent the president a bill that, as a disgusted Rep. David Wu (D-Ore.) put it, with just a touch of exaggeration, “makes Alberto Gonzalez the sheriff, the judge and the jury.”

“Politically, Republicans won this round in two ways. They got the president the bill he wanted and, as a result, they created absolute fury in the Democratic base. Pelosi has received more than 200,000 e-mails of protest, according to an aide, for letting the bill go forward. ...

“Democrats concede they made an enormous tactical blunder by not dealing with the issue earlier, forcing the question to the fore in the days before the recess”
-—<>-—<>-—<>-—<>-—<>-—

ROTFLMPO ... I used to think that the Republicans were more incompetent about politics than the Demodogs... This Congress is changing my mind!


31 posted on 08/10/2007 9:53:38 AM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: EQAndyBuzz

It adds up. It is called strategery and Bush has been using it since 2001. He has beaten the Democrats on pretty much everything in the last 6 years. Meanwhile, we call him stupid everytime he does something that upsets the base.
-—<>-—<>-—<>-—<>-—<>-—

Yup.


32 posted on 08/10/2007 9:55:55 AM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: jrooney

Don King is making the rounds of the talk shows promoting something (probably just himself) but one of his action lines is that President George Walker Bush took the lame out of lame duck.


33 posted on 08/10/2007 10:21:59 AM PDT by Phsstpok (Often wrong, but never in doubt)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Is EJ whining about the big bad Wepubwicans again?


34 posted on 08/10/2007 10:53:11 AM PDT by gogeo (Democrats want to support the troops without actually being helpful to them.)
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To: b4its2late

Two more facelifts and she’ll be wearing a goatee!


35 posted on 08/10/2007 11:03:11 AM PDT by darth
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To: darth

eeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


36 posted on 08/10/2007 7:28:22 PM PDT by txroadkill ( http://iraqstar.org)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"Could something happen over August?" Rep. Rush D. Holt (D-N.J.) asked in an interview. "Sure it could. What bothered me is that too many Democrats allowed that fear to turn into a demand for some atrocious legislation."

It voting for it because "something could happen in August" was a good idea, why wouldn't voting for it because "something could happen in September...or October...or November...or next year" be a good idea, too?

These people are increasingly revealing their true selves. And it ain't pretty...

37 posted on 08/10/2007 7:39:18 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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