Posted on 08/10/2007 11:44:05 AM PDT by snarks_when_bored
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HERETICAL THOUGHTS ABOUT SCIENCE AND SOCIETY [8.8.07]
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HERETICAL THOUGHTS ABOUT SCIENCE AND SOCIETY 1. The Need for Heretics In the modern world, science and society often interact in a perverse way. We live in a technological society, and technology causes political problems. The politicians and the public expect science to provide answers to the problems. Scientific experts are paid and encouraged to provide answers. The public does not have much use for a scientist who says, “Sorry, but we don’t know”. The public prefers to listen to scientists who give confident answers to questions and make confident predictions of what will happen as a result of human activities. So it happens that the experts who talk publicly about politically contentious questions tend to speak more clearly than they think. They make confident predictions about the future, and end up believing their own predictions. Their predictions become dogmas which they do not question. The public is led to believe that the fashionable scientific dogmas are true, and it may sometimes happen that they are wrong. That is why heretics who question the dogmas are needed. 2. Climate and Land Management The main subject of this piece is the problem of climate change. This is a contentious subject, involving politics and economics as well as science. The science is inextricably mixed up with politics. Everyone agrees that the climate is changing, but there are violently diverging opinions about the causes of change, about the consequences of change, and about possible remedies. I am promoting a heretical opinion, the first of three heresies that I will discuss in this piece. 3. Oceans and Ice-ages Another problem that has to be taken seriously is a slow rise of sea level which could become catastrophic if it continues to accelerate. We have accurate measurements of sea level going back two hundred years. We observe a steady rise from 1800 to the present, with an acceleration during the last fifty years. It is widely believed that the recent acceleration is due to human activities, since it coincides in time with the rapid increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. But the rise from 1800 to 1900 was probably not due to human activities. The scale of industrial activities in the nineteenth century was not large enough to have had measurable global effects. So a large part of the observed rise in sea level must have other causes. One possible cause is a slow readjustment of the shape of the earth to the disappearance of the northern ice-sheets at the end of the ice age twelve thousand years ago. Another possible cause is the large-scale melting of glaciers, which also began long before human influences on climate became significant. Once again, we have an environmental danger whose magnitude cannot be predicted until we know more about its causes, [Munk, 2002]. 4. The Wet Sahara My second heresy is also concerned with climate change. It is about the mystery of the wet Sahara. This is a mystery that has always fascinated me. At many places in the Sahara desert that are now dry and unpopulated, we find rock-paintings showing people with herds of animals. The paintings are abundant, and some of them are of high artistic quality, comparable with the more famous cave-paintings in France and Spain. The Sahara paintings are more recent than the cave-paintings. They come in a variety of styles and were probably painted over a period of several thousand years. The latest of them show Egyptian influences and may be contemporaneous with early Egyptian tomb paintings. Henri Lhote’s book, “The Search for the Tassili Frescoes”, [Lhote, 1958], is illustrated with reproductions of fifty of the paintings. The best of the herd paintings date from roughly six thousand years ago. They are strong evidence that the Sahara at that time was wet. There was enough rain to support herds of cows and giraffes, which must have grazed on grass and trees. There were also some hippopotamuses and elephants. The Sahara then must have been like the Serengeti today. 5. Bad Advice to a Young Scientist Sixty years ago, when I was a young and arrogant physicist, I tried to predict the future of physics and biology. My prediction was an extreme example of wrongness, perhaps a world record in the category of wrong predictions. I was giving advice about future employment to Francis Crick, the great biologist who died in 2005 after a long and brilliant career. He discovered, with Jim Watson, the double helix. They discovered the double helix structure of DNA in 1953, and thereby gave birth to the new science of molecular genetics. Eight years before that, in 1945, before World War 2 came to an end, I met Francis Crick for the first time. He was in Fanum House, a dismal office building in London where the Royal Navy kept a staff of scientists. Crick had been working for the Royal Navy for a long time and was depressed and discouraged. He said he had missed his chance of ever amounting to anything as a scientist. Before World War 2, he had started a promising career as a physicist. But then the war hit him at the worst time, putting a stop to his work in physics and keeping him away from science for six years. The six best years of his life, squandered on naval intelligence, lost and gone forever. Crick was good at naval intelligence, and did important work for the navy. But military intelligence bears the same relation to intelligence as military music bears to music. After six years doing this kind of intelligence, it was far too late for Crick to start all over again as a student and relearn all the stuff he had forgotten. No wonder he was depressed. I came away from Fanum House thinking, “How sad. Such a bright chap. If it hadn’t been for the war, he would probably have been quite a good scientist”. [Excerpted from Many Colored Glass: Reflections on the Place of Life in the Universe (Page Barbour Lectures) by Freeman Dyson, University of Virgina Press, 2007.] |
My first heresy says that all the fuss about global warming is grossly exaggerated. Here I am opposing the holy brotherhood of climate model experts and the crowd of deluded citizens who believe the numbers predicted by the computer models. Of course, they say, I have no degree in meteorology and I am therefore not qualified to speak. But I have studied the climate models and I know what they can do. The models solve the equations of fluid dynamics, and they do a very good job of describing the fluid motions of the atmosphere and the oceans. They do a very poor job of describing the clouds, the dust, the chemistry and the biology of fields and farms and forests. They do not begin to describe the real world that we live in. The real world is muddy and messy and full of things that we do not yet understand. It is much easier for a scientist to sit in an air-conditioned building and run computer models, than to put on winter clothes and measure what is really happening outside in the swamps and the clouds. That is why the climate model experts end up believing their own models.
Ping, friends...it’s been a while...
Another Global Warming heretic!
< /sarc >

The planet has a fever.... Does this tie make me look not so gay? Oh wait, it's a tie, not a wand...
Bookmark. Radio Astronomer got purged although he may still come here to read some of the articles. He’s at Darwin Central now.
Bump for later.
I think Dyson’s scientific credentials are just slightly better than OwlGore’s.
That would be a bet you could win money on...
I like that closing sentence -- "future decision-making could be made based on scientific data and not on political expediency". I wouldn't count on it, but that would be great.Caves reveal clues to UK weatherAt Pooles Cavern in Derbyshire, it was discovered that the stalagmites grow faster in the winter months when it rains more. Alan Walker, who guides visitors through the caves, says the changes in rainfall are recorded in the stalactites and stalagmites like the growth rings in trees. Stalagmites from a number of caves have now been analysed by Dr Andy Baker at Newcastle University. After splitting and polishing the rock, he can measure its growth precisely and has built up a precipitation history going back thousands of years. His study suggests this autumn's rainfall is not at all unusual when looked at over such a timescale but is well within historic variations. He believes politicians find it expedient to blame a man-made change in our weather rather than addressing the complex scientific picture.
by Tom Heap
Bump for later reading!
The only cure is MORE COWBELL
To conclude this piece I come to my third and last heresy. My third heresy says that the United States has less than a century left of its turn as top nation.
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ok the sky is still falling
One of the main causes of warming is the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere resulting from our burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal and natural gas.
So before we all congratulate ourselves for having him on our side, we have to understand what he is saying. While he doesn't necessarily agree with most freepers (I happen to believe, more or less, in Anthropogenic Global Warming), he DOES believe, like I do and the rest of us, that its mostly a political sham. He has a very interesting take on the matter, saying its a LAND MANAGEMENT problem, and solution. Get this:
Greenhouse experiments show that many plants growing in an atmosphere enriched with carbon dioxide react by increasing their root-to-shoot ratio. This means that the plants put more of their growth into roots and less into stems and leaves. A change in this direction is to be expected, because the plants have to maintain a balance between the leaves collecting carbon from the air and the roots collecting mineral nutrients from the soil. The enriched atmosphere tilts the balance so that the plants need less leaf-area and more root-area. Now consider what happens to the roots and shoots when the growing season is over, when the leaves fall and the plants die. The new-grown biomass decays and is eaten by fungi or microbes. Some of it returns to the atmosphere and some of it is converted into topsoil. On the average, more of the above-ground growth will return to the atmosphere and more of the below-ground growth will become topsoil. So the plants with increased root-to-shoot ratio will cause an increased transfer of carbon from the atmosphere into topsoil.
I love this! More CO2, more roots; more roots, more carbon into topsoil, OUT of the atmosphere. Whats this? Mother Earth, REGULATING herself?! This is great!
It does seem that the deniers are mostly retired men who have nothing to lose. Either that or they are supplementing their pensions with checks from Exxon. /s
Dyson does end his piece by pointing out his poor record in predicting the future. So I cut him so slack on his third heresy...
‘some slack’, not ‘so slack’...
Dyson is sui generis.
Of course I wonder if his mapping of Feynman’s model onto Schwinger’s was accurate. Schwinger did not think so.
Been a long time. Nice to hear from you again. You have been missed.
I don’t necessarily disagree with him on the third heresy. I think alot of us here feel the same as him. Not that we think it necessarily WILL happen, but it wouldn’t suprise us. Things always go in cycles.
A field of corn growing in full sunlight in the middle of the day uses up all the carbon dioxide within a meter of the ground in about five minutes.
If the air were not constantly stirred by convection currents and winds, the corn would stop growing.
About a tenth of all the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is converted into biomass every summer and given back to the atmosphere every fall. That is why the effects of fossil-fuel burning cannot be separated from the effects of plant growth and decay. --"
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Notable common sense from a very uncommon man.
A superb article, and it will probably cause me to buy his book.
“Things always go in cycles” is not an argument.
I mean, do you really think America with its values, creativity and free markets can ever be taken over by an authoritarian/communist cesspool like China?
I agree with you, Paradox, that there is, more or less, something going on in the atmosphere related to human activity. But what FD points out with such spectacular brilliance is that it’s a) unpredictable, b) not necessarily very bad or even all bad, and c) closely tied in with natural cycles that we do not understand at all.
I also agree with you about how interesting is his notion of land management. I’ve thought all along that the secret is in the sea (as in “give me a tanker full of iron and I’ll give you an ice age”). This focus on topsoil is a very interesting perspective.
And what he said about ice ages is absolutely and unarguably true. It’s one of the few things we know with certainty about earth’s long-term climate: that ice ages are cyclical, that warm periods are short, and that we are at the far distant end of the current warm period.
Are we fending off an ice age? In the hoot-mind of the OwlGore, is that a bad thing?
(And of course there’s much more to all this. Mars is undergoing warming? What about THAT? That’s a whole ‘nother issue!)
((I’m definitely buying the book.))
We are being swamped in a way which, if unchecked, will most likely lead to the ship of state foundering. Not now, and not in 10 years. But fifty years from now? When Azatlan breaks away and HillaryCare has paid for a half-billion new border-born babies? How is the idea of a second-rate US so hard to imagine?
Ignorance and Arrogance go mano e mano!
A little warming, we can live with. But a new ice age would really suck. :-)
Oh yes, much as Rome was runover by the savages. And in much the same way, we wont get "beat", but an empire, somewhere along the way, seems to lose its will to do what it needs to do to survive. They start to see themselves as "above" all that riff-raff. In other words, Liberalism kills them. You can see that in Europe, and in America as well. Will this continue? I dont know, I mean, I certainly hope not. As Conservatives, our goal ultimately is to delay the inevitable, or better, to keep at at bay ad infinitum.
I hear the Siberians got no problem with a little Global Warming :)
More important was the cancellation of the Superconducting Supercollider. Our scientists, instead of being at the head of the line in Texas, are at the end of the line in France. That will be seen as the watershed event in the decline.
Oh dear. What will Shell Oil do now, and that one that has the dinosaur mascot? (if oil comes from deep within the earth and is not the result of previous life forms)
America has its problems but it’s in far better shape than all the other countries.
I remember when everyone said that Japan would be #1 during the 80’s. Japan’s future is in even worse shape with its negative replacement birth rate.
Europe doesn’t look like it is in great shape. On the one hand the europeans have lost their moral and cultural identity. On the other hand, they have allowed all these muslims in and they might take over.
second rate US means something else would be first rate. I don’t see where that wonderful country is.
What is more reasonable is to argue that if America declines, everything else will decline with it.
He got banned?
Whatever for?
I am going to have to seriously consider why i still come here if thats the case.
Call me stuned,
knewshound
Freeman Dyson has forgotten more about science than Algore has ever known, times about 10.
I don’t think he was talking about quality of life. I think he meant power, of many kinds. Military, economic, and otherwise. It is possible that the day will come when the US is not #1. And if it does come to pass, the unending border invasion will be the underlying cause.
Dyson: I am impressed by the enormous gaps in our knowledge, the sparseness of our observations and the superficiality of our theories.
Much like early physicians and surgeons used bloodletting to treat a variety of ailments, the followers of Gore want to drain the financial resources of the rich to cure the planet. They feel that doing something, even if it makes the problem worse, will demonstrate their commitment to the cause.
:’)
Who will be the next top nation? China is the obvious candidate. After that it might be India or Brazil.By 2070, nearly the entire current population of China will be dead, and nearly three halvings of the Chinese population (1 child families) will have taken place. The only reason there will be any wealthy Chinese will be tontine style inheritance.
10,000 Germanic tribesmen sacked Rome in 410, as I recall. 10,000 barbarians just did whatever they wished with impunity. At the time the population of Rome was about one million.
The Roman Army at that time was largely made up of Germanic tribesmen, Goths, Vandals, etc. The Commander in Chief of the Roman Army in Italy was a fellow named Stilicho, a Vandal tribesman.
The Romans were all on welfare or working for the government. It had been more than a hundred years since moving or changing jobs without official permission had been prohibited. The value of the currency had been destroyed by inflation and with it the value of savings. Pretty much everyone was in permanent debt. Everything most people owned had had to be sold to pay debts. The farms were worked with slave labor.
Hu Jintao (smart cookie) is putting in place a most thorough and universal police state (the “public health” stuff is all about that).
The Shanghai faction had very nearly escaped Beijing’s clutches at long last (conquest of south by Beijing based governments ran 970 to 1279) after the death of Mao. That is no longer in the cards.
A war with China can be prevented even though China has a great excess of young men over young women. The only real difficulty in aborting this coming “Taiwan Straits” war is American homegrown Left dementia.
Pretty much. I see Europe in that condition, USA not too far behind, all because of creeping Liberalism. Conservatives are the last bastion of hope for the West.


Click on POGW graphic for full GW rundown
New!!: Dr. John Ray's
GREENIE WATCH
Ping me if you find one I've missed.
But economic greatness does not necessarily translate into political and military power, at least without a long delay, as America's own history shows. Politically, China is already over extended. Freedom for China will mean at least a pullback, and possibly outright political breakup - none of which will be a tragedy.
Perhaps, instead of asking what nation will come out on top, we should anticipate the end of the era of nation states.
The whole article is pretty good, but he accepted (without question!) the fallacy that GW is CAUSED by the increase in CO2 from man’s emissions.
Ignores the counter-relationship between temps and cosmic radiation/sunspot activity/cloud/vapor levels. Ironically, he mentions some of these factors, but ignores their influence.
bumpers!
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