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(Then & Now) WWII Nazi-Muslim SS Terrorist Divisions, Islamic Fundamentalists from Bosnia & Kosovo
Red State ^ | May 13, 2007 | Demophilus

Posted on 08/10/2007 1:04:26 PM PDT by Bokababe

The connection between the Islamofacists and the NAZI's can no longer be denied. They (Bosnian Muslims & Albanian Muslims) even revived the old infamous ISLAMIC-NAZI WAFFEN SS TERRORIST HANDZAR DIVISION well known for it's savage brutality towards the Jews, Christians, and Gypsies during World War. This is the same group of people the US government now backs in the Balkans.

This is a pro-Al-Qaeda policy put in place by the Clinton Administration and foolishly continued by the Bush State Department.We are currently aiding and abetting the same exact genocidal side that the NAZI Germans did back in World War 2 if that isn't bad enough we have teamed up with Al Qaeda linked terrorist groups in order to set up an Islamic Republic or two in Europe.....

(Excerpt) Read more at redstate.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Israel; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: antichristian; balkans; bosnia; clintonlegacy; croatia; dhimmwit; hoopielite; islam; islamofascists; jihad; redjihad; wot
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1 posted on 08/10/2007 1:04:28 PM PDT by Bokababe
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ma bell; ...

2 posted on 08/10/2007 1:06:34 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
Reductio ad nazism

Now that's a sophisticated argument.

Especially when one is trying to pimp the side who reintroduced concentration camps and their own brand of sonderkommando to Europe.

3 posted on 08/10/2007 1:32:07 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Guess you missed the memo, Hopeless -- probably because it didn't have "Serb" or "Balkan" in the keyword list to put you in a lather: Islam and Adolf Hitler
4 posted on 08/10/2007 2:04:33 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Hoplite
Laughable that you’re still trying to use the disproved Jihadist propaganda against the Serbs while denying their decades-long terror campaign to ethnically cleanse the Serbian province of Kosovo-Metohija.
5 posted on 08/10/2007 2:07:03 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Bokababe
Did I mention bringing back genocide to Europe?

No? Oh well.

Is the Sisyphean nature of your self appointed task of attempting to change history and perception so completely removed from your grasp?

Of course it is.

Which is why you just keep trying.

6 posted on 08/10/2007 2:08:06 PM PDT by Hoplite
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7 posted on 08/10/2007 2:24:08 PM PDT by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: Hoplite
"Is the Sisyphean nature of your self appointed task of attempting to change history and perception so completely

Quite the opposite. Am acknowledging history and its direct connection to today -- and I am obviously not alone in seeing the linkages.

Hopeless "Hoplite" -- the champion of a Greek education that never quite "took" on him! LOL!

8 posted on 08/10/2007 2:44:44 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
I am obviously not alone in seeing the linkages

And you're quite adept at selecting only those linkages which will help you accomplish your task, while not recognizing or outright ignoring those linkages which render your task impossible.

It's an IQ test kind of thing.

9 posted on 08/10/2007 2:55:39 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: SoCalPol
Yes -- and Yasser Arafat was Amin al-Hussieni the Mufti of Jerusalem's nephew.
10 posted on 08/10/2007 3:12:09 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe; Hoplite

“...not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier.”


11 posted on 08/10/2007 3:23:01 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Wise men don't need to debate; men who need to debate are not wise." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: Hoplite
Yes, well here's the IQ test, Hopeless.

Your Croat neo-Nazi buddy, "Waterlane" doesn't seem to be on the same page with you. And he says that he fought in the Balkan wars before moving to the US.

12 posted on 08/10/2007 3:30:23 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

The world has changed much since the old boy’s time - I reckon Franz and Sophie’s fate pretty much put an end to serious consideration of his old saw.


13 posted on 08/10/2007 3:39:46 PM PDT by Hoplite
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: Bokababe
Ah. Now you're making perfect sense.

In a chick logic meets Serb logic kind of way.

I guess.

15 posted on 08/10/2007 4:27:50 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Stating the truth about your beloved Jihadists is never an impossible task, pancakes, only teaching the truth to you kneepad types seems to be the challenging part.


16 posted on 08/10/2007 5:33:18 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: All

17 posted on 08/10/2007 5:37:18 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Bokababe
Boka: Let me explain how Hoplite is misguided in his analogies.

First, how did "NAZISM" come about?

Let's revisit the 1800's, and, for the sake of argument, we need only start with Herbert Spencer (1852) who stated; " Survival of the fittest". I would note that this quote did not come from the later works of Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace (1861).

Subsequent to these individuals works, there were movements to improve humankind. The most popular was referred to as the Eugenics movement.

In the latter 1800's, with the works of Sir Francis Galton, Alfred Binet, Karl Pearson et.al. there were the development of IQ tests which labled individuals (in modern terms) as e.g. Mentally Retarded and so on. This movement became popular to social scientists, not only in Europe, but also in the US to wit:

Eugenics and the United States, 1890s–1945

"One of the earliest modern advocates of eugenic ideas (before they were labeled as such) was Alexander Graham Bell. In 1881 Bell investigated the rate of deafness on Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts. From this he concluded that deafness was hereditary in nature and recommended a marriage prohibition against the deaf ("Memoir upon the formation of a deaf variety of the human Race") even though he was married to a deaf woman. Like many other early eugenicists, he proposed controlling immigration for the purpose of eugenics and warned that boarding schools for the deaf could possibly be considered as breeding places of a deaf human race. In 1907, Indiana became the first of more than thirty states to adopt legislation aimed at compulsory sterilization of certain individuals.[14] Although the law was overturned by the Indiana Supreme Court in 1921,[15] the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of a Virginia Law allowing for the compulsory sterilization of patients of state mental institutions in 1927.[16] "We do not stand alone": Nazi poster from 1936 with flags of other countries with compulsory sterilization legislation.Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler was infamous for eugenics programs which attempted to maintain a "pure" German race through a series of programs that ran under the banner of "racial hygiene". Among other activities, the Nazis performed extensive experimentation on live human beings to test their genetic theories, ranging from simple measurement of physical characteristics to the horrific experiments carried out by Josef Mengele for Otmar von Verschuer on twins in the concentration camps. During the 1930s and 1940s, the Nazi regime forcibly sterilized hundreds of thousands of people whom they viewed as mentally and physically "unfit", an estimated 400,000 between 1934 and 1937. The scale of the Nazi program prompted American eugenics advocates to seek an expansion of their program, with one complaining that "the Germans are beating us at our own game".[Quoted in Selgelid, Michael J. 2000. Neugenics? Monash Bioethics Review 19 (4):9-33 ]"

The Eugenics movement - extending far beyond Nazi Germany - ended in 1945 in the aftermath of what the Nazi did. Thus, in any real terms, there's no real comparison between what the Nazi's did in the 1930's and 1940's to what happened during the Balkan Wars of the 1990's. The underlying motivation was completely different.

The Nazis took the Eugenics movement to the limit - and it ended in 1945.

This is where Hoplite is going wrong in his analogies i.e. comparing Nazi Germany to the Serbs (of course during the 1990's).

18 posted on 08/11/2007 12:57:56 AM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: Hoplite
Sorry for not initially including you in post #18. Terribly rude of me ole boy.
19 posted on 08/11/2007 2:47:32 AM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic

Actually, that’s merely a single example of where pancake boy has gone wrong.

It could days to list them all.


20 posted on 08/11/2007 6:02:05 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Print this out, and put it next to your computer.
22 posted on 08/11/2007 8:36:06 AM PDT by Hoplite
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: WaterLane

The audience of those reports hasn’t much matured or grown more sophisticated in the ensuing years, unfortunately.


24 posted on 08/11/2007 10:15:47 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: WaterLane
There probably isn't a country today who doesn't have a bunch of young, testosterone-driven skinheads, including the US. "Twenty guys" hardly represent a viable "political movement" -- they are just pissed of youth -- dangerous to individuals, but not to a country as a whole.

On the other hand, then you have the real sort of Neo-Nazi that is a viable political movement as you do with the Albanians in Macedonia, as Bali Kombetar When people are talking about "voting for" neo-Nazis, then you have a real problem.

In Croatia, the Nazi Ustashi roots are even more institutionalized, with parents taking their children to a "Thompson" concert where people are doing the "Seig Heil". And the music, broadcast on TV, glorifies "the good old days" of the WWII Croat Nazis sending hundreds of thousands of Serbs Jews & Gypsies to their deaths at the Jasenovac and Stari Gradiska death camp, to a "a happy little tune" by the same name.

Croatian Foreign Minister and Ambassador to the US and UN, Miomir Žužul with his family, at this Thompson Concert.

In Croatia, unfortunately the neo-Nazis have so intimidated the decent Croats that there is nothing they can do about it.

25 posted on 08/11/2007 10:21:52 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: WaterLane
"Nacionalni_stroj" is the name of an obscure neo-nazi organisation that was formed in Serbia.

Did you miss the word "obscure"?

26 posted on 08/11/2007 12:01:58 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: WaterLane

I am sorry but soccer fans in Europe — of all stripes — can be total idiots. Fine them, ban them, kick their butts out of there. If they can’t behave like civilized people, they should lose the ability to attend the game. Doesn’t matter what nationality they are.

The really sick joke of this is, however, that most in Serbia have never known a Black person in their lives and most have never even seen one. These fans were taking cheap, stupid shots about which they know nothing. And it is costing their teams dearly.

As for Powar’s remark, wouldn’t surprise me if every neo-Nazi in Serbia — all 20 of them — showed up at these games. A problem for soccer, yes. A political problem for the world, hardly.


28 posted on 08/12/2007 10:16:07 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: WaterLane

Wow. Maybe that’s why Serbia is the most multi-ethnic country in the Balkans. Those racist Serbs!


29 posted on 08/12/2007 9:53:05 PM PDT by Banat (DEO + REGI + PATRIAE | In Hoc Signo Vinces | http://labourserbia.blogspot.com)
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: WaterLane
"Remember, Bosnians did not go in Serbia to attack Serbs, they came to us."

More propaganda from you.

Serbs have always been in Bosnia -- they were baptized into Serbian Orthodox Christianity where they stood IN Bosnia Hercegovina. Just as Croats have always been in B-H. Islam came to B-H "by the sword" in the 15th century. And there are objective historical markers to prove this.

When the Turks conquered Hercegovina, they started killing off all the Christian aristocracy and leadership. Some Serbs saw it coming and decided to fight back and they fought off the Turks all the way to down to the Montenegrin Coast. Those Serbian Orthodox Christians from "Hercegovina" (translation: "Dukedom") established the city of "Hercegnovi"(translation: "New Dukedom")in Boka Kotorska, Montenegro. I know because one of my great-great grandfathers just happened to be the guy who raised that Serbian flag at Hercegnovi.

As a result of this purge of Christians by Muslims, there are families with my same last name of all three religions -- Orthodox Christian, Roman Catholic, and Muslim -- those who stayed in Hercegovina converted to Islam, those who went to Montenegro stayed Orthodox and those who went North to Dalmatia became Roman Catholic.

You, Waterlane, are banking on the ignorance of those who don't know the difference between "a Serb" (Serbian Orthodox Christian) and "a Serbian" (someone from Serbia). Fifteen years ago that propaganda worked -- today people have had time to wrap their brain around the subtle but important differences.

31 posted on 08/13/2007 7:36:25 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: WaterLane
"Husein's rule in Gradačac was also notable because of his tolerance towards the Christian populace under his jurisdiction; both Catholic and Orthodox. Though social norms of the time dictated that the Ottoman sultan's official approval was necessary for the construction of any non-Islamic religious buildings, Husein approved the construction of several such buildings without it. A Catholic school was built in the village of Tolisa in 1823, followed by a large church that could hold 1,500 people. Another two Catholic churches were built in the villages of Dubrave and Garevac, while an Orthodox church was built in the hamlet of Obudovac. During Husein's captaincy, the Christians in Gradačac were known to be the most satisfied in Bosnia..."

Oh yes, Serbs are supposed to remember the "good old days" of being dhimmi. What a joke! Slavery is still slavery.

"And please, don't mix Bosnians with Croats or Turks"

There is no such thing as "a Bosnian" or "Bosniak". It's a political invention that ethnically, religiously and historically means absolutely nothing.

33 posted on 08/13/2007 8:57:32 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: WaterLane
"Oh yes, Serbs are supposed to remember the "good old days" of being dhimmi."..... No, but I am just proving you wrong."

You proved nothing, other than some Muslim tyrants were more benevolent than others, but tyranny is still tyranny.

"Whats really bothering you buddy?.. You are so full of hate, it's not even funny. You know, you would be first to get killed in the war."

I have not said a single "hateful" thing to you. I've argued politics, which is the point of participating in a political message board. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Just quit playing victim, because you rallied around a militant Islamist like Izetbegovic, who said," There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non- Islamic societies and political institutions. ... Islam clearly excludes the right and possibility of activity of any strange ideology on its own turf."

Want to know who I feel sorry for? The 60,000 Abdic Bosnian Muslims who made peace with the Bosnian Serbs, but who had to flee to Serbia to get away from your people. Filmmaker Emir Kusturica, (former Muslim) who left his hometown of Sarajevo to go to Serbia, never to return. These are real victims.

And as for the rest of what you said: "You know, you would be first to get killed in the war.", if that is a veiled threat, you will definitely want to rethink that statement.

35 posted on 08/13/2007 11:09:13 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe

WaterLane has water on the brain, he still thinks Tito’s “Bosniak” canard has legitimacy. His attempt to invent a new ethnicity out of thin air is a legendary attempt at historical revisionism.


36 posted on 08/13/2007 12:42:22 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: WaterLane

Ok, I’m sure you do, but the facts still stand, “Bosnian” is not a real ethnicity.


39 posted on 08/13/2007 1:58:12 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: WaterLane

You’re the one professing love, not me. I am under no such obligation.


41 posted on 08/13/2007 2:09:12 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: WaterLane
"Remember, Bosnians did not go in Serbia to attack Serbs, they came to us."

Now that's funny, pure entertainment.

42 posted on 08/13/2007 2:20:23 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: montyspython
Hey Monty: I wonder if Hoplite, who ostensibly is an advocate against reductionism (for example, see post #3 above), ever sees himself guilty of his own reductionists' arguments?
43 posted on 08/13/2007 8:33:05 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: WaterLane
Waterlane: There's always going problems when we have discussions on the "appropriate use of words" in the context of the Balkans. Consider, for example, the following (Judah, 2000)

"I have rejected an old rule by which Serbs from Serbia used to be described as Serbians but Serbs from Bosnia or the old Austro-Hungrarian territories were distinguished by calling them Serbs. Today I believe that such a distinction is confusing, especially since few people know that it ever existed. Another premise which I reject: some believe that citizens of Serbia, be they ethnic Serbs or not, should all be described as Serbian. I do not think that this adds to clarity because it would clearly absurd to describe a Kosvovo Albanian as a Serbian. Likewise, some insist that when writing about Albanians in Kosovo one should always write about ethnic Albanians to distinguish them from Albanians from Albania. I think that Kosovo Albania is often a perfectly suitable alternative and there seems to be no reason for dogmatism over which term to use."

Note that I do no entirely agree with Judah (2000). However, I (and others) think you can see the issue.

44 posted on 08/13/2007 11:48:49 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Hoplite does not bother himself with such inconvenient anomalies ,that would require him to be accountable for his own inability to be consistent in his argumentation.

Better to lose one's self in the simplistic fog of passive denial then to confront the complexities and inconveniences of the truth, that makes it easier for him to live with himself.

46 posted on 08/14/2007 6:59:48 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: Banat

Now now Banat, please behave. We don’t want to burden WaterBalls here with any facts now, you’re just going agianst the grain don’t ya know?


47 posted on 08/14/2007 11:39:22 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
"I have rejected an old rule by which Serbs from Serbia used to be described as Serbians but Serbs from Bosnia or the old Austro-Hungrarian territories were distinguished by calling them Serbs."

Who in the hell is Tim Judah to "reject" how people have defined themselves for centuries? What a moron! Tells you a lot about his abilities (or lack thereof) as a historian and author!

48 posted on 08/14/2007 3:14:59 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: WaterLane
Re Abdic, there are quite a few Bosnian Muslims here in the States who disagree with you on Abdic. And who also disagree with you about where Abdic's forces went after the war:

"And this is what i can tell you from my personal experience. I came with my family as a refugee from Bosnia, we were small part of these 70.000 muslims that escaped "modernism" of Alija Izetbegovic and came to Serbia. We were accepted well and treated equally with all other Serbian refugees. Today my family lives in Serbia and has no intention of going back to this "New Bosnia"."

As for Kusturica:

"At the outset of the siege of Sarajevo, Kusturica wrote an impassioned plea in Le Monde for his battered city. Not long after that, Bosnian Muslim irregulars looted the Sarajevo apartment belonging to his parents, who had moved to Montenegro; even his film prizes were taken. A few months later, his father died of a heart attack. ''This war killed him too,'' Kusturica said at the time. And this, perhaps above all, is something he is not willing to forgive Sarajevo for.

''My father was always saying we were Serbs,'' he says, ''but I didn't pay much attention.'' Kusturica finally went to a library and says he confirmed that the Kusturicas had been Orthodox Christian Serbs until, a few centuries ago, a branch of the family converted to Islam when the region was under Ottoman domination. It's a common ancestral story among Bosnia's Muslim Slavs, few of whom consider themselves Serbs because of it. For his part, Kusturica refused to see himself as either a Bosnian Muslim or Serb. Instead, like a good number of Sarajevens, he affirmed his loyalty to the Yugoslav experiment, a complex cultural brew of Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Muslims, Jews, gypsies -- a mix of religions and ethnicities and historical nationalities that together formed a single nation."

Kusturica's great "sin" was that he still believed in the idea of "Yugoslavia", not in "Milosevic" -- and he could recognize a badly-written narrative about the break-up of Yugoslavia being peddled by the MSM, whee he saw it.

So why aren't you still back in your "beautiful Islamic Bosnia"? Given you helped create it, why would you leave?

49 posted on 08/14/2007 3:37:25 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
"Who in the hell is Tim Judah to "reject" how people have defined themselves for centuries..."

I would agree with you.

I would also note that I should have provided the full citation for the Judah (2000) quote above (as there is no link). Specifically, see page xv under Author's Note in:

Judah, T. (2000). The Serbs: History, Myth and the Destruction of Yugoslavia (2nd edition). New Haven: Yale University Press.

50 posted on 08/14/2007 6:08:52 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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