Knot on a log.
Posted on 08/12/2007 1:54:59 PM PDT by mountn man
Yesterday, I received a promotional mailing for the Leadership Summit at Willow Creek. I quickly opened the slick marketing package to learn about this year’s list of speakers and the other pertinent information. Then, like an unexpected punch in the stomach, I saw that former President Jimmy Carter was listed as a speaker, about leadership.
I have long respected Bill Hybels; his seemingly innate ability to reinvent himself, find a new path, and expand his universe is something rarely seen, especially in the Christian community. However, I am disappointed that he chose the former president to speak to a group of Christian leaders whose thirst for encouragement and knowledge leads them on the pilgrimage to Willow Creek every year.
In recent weeks, Carter has caused a rift in the Baptist Church over the liberal gathering at the New Baptist Covenant. This event, aimed at bringing faction of Baptists together, has turned out to be a divisive regret. Carter has also been a vocal critic of the Faith-based initiatives of the current administration, saying, “ As a traditional Baptist, I've always believed in separation of church and state and honored that premise when I was president, and so have all other presidents, I might say, except this one.," Additionally, Carter has also been criticized by Evangelicals for his book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid, where he wrote, “It is imperative that the general Arab community and all significant Palestinian groups make it clear that they will end the suicide bombing and other acts of terrorism when international laws and the ultimate goals of the Roadmap for Peace are accepted by Israel.” Critics of this book also took issue with the former president’s choice of the word, “apartheid”, in the title. Carter maintains he did not mean to “equate Zionism with racism.”
Shortly after the release of the book, 15 members of the board of directors resigned from the Carter Center in protest over the book’s content. After the book release, it was clear that facts were wrong, maps were misconstrued and the book was labeled as a slanted attack against Israel. Shortly after the resignations, it was revealed that Carter had received major funding for his center from anti-Israel oil tycoons in the Middle East. According to published reports, some of the major donors included, the Sultanate of Oman, the United Arab Emirates, OPEC and even the brother of Osama bin Laden.
Of course, the above mentioned activities took place after his presidency. Given the turmoil caused during his presidency: the Iranian hostage standoff, gas rations, inflation, et al, I am left wondering why Willow Creek chose Jimmy Carter to address their forum on leadership.
What does Jimmy Carter know about leadership?
Is there such a lack of true leadership, that WCCC needs to bring in Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, to speak at so-called leadership conferences?
Darn!I was enjoying a Carter-free weekend and then this gets posted.
-JoA
Relax.
I thought when you mentioned Jimuh bin Qarter and Wili bin Qlinton in connection with the WCCC that you meant World Council of Christian Churches, then I realized that WCCC actually stands for Willow Creek Community Church. Under the circumstances, you can understand why I would get that impression. That Hybels would have this wicked old Marxist and America/Israel hater speak is inexplicable, unless the man is totally lacking in discernment.
What next? Pee Wee Herman for the movie reviews?
World Council of Christian Churches, thats the WCA (otherwise known as the Willow Creek Association)
Well, I was just sitting down to a nice cup of Boca Java when I almost spewed at the sight of your headline.....
Some kind of vision protector needed.......
BAD choice. This former president is no friend of Christ
Fairly credible message?
No offense, but why pay for Truth Lite?
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
As though OBL has only one brother! LOL! He's probably got at least 20!
Lead them exactly where, down the drain to rack and ruin? What Jimmah did with Iran is a crime we are still paying for.
No, there's a lack of good and unbiased judgment.
These two names are bound to draw a crowd. Just ask PT Barnum.
further proof that once you disconnect from the Church you drift hopelessly, aimlessly, everywhere except where the Church is going.
I was so surprised when I saw that he was a speaker. Had I been planning to go, the simple fact of Carter’s involvement would have made me change my mind. Not only is that man responsible in no small way with what’s going on in the Middle East today, he has also proven himself to be small minded and mean spirited. I’m not going to make any guesses about his salvation, but his fruits need a little work.
susie
What we have with Iran today is much worse than what we had during the hostage crisis.
Chances are that the threat of Iran , not only to the US, but the entire world, would not exist if Jimmy wouldn't have betrayed the Shah.
Whatever he did or wants to do, do the opposite and you’re almost 100% guaranteed to being making the wisest and most successful choice as a leader.
Carter was the president of “The Purple Thumb Society”, a group of wana-bee carpenters. After he hammered both thumbs purple, he was impeached from the club.
Jimmy has always been about "his" fruit.
Seeing him and others, and even myself, doing "good works", I question the REAL motive doing good things.
Do we feed others because of our true love for God, or to make ourselves feel better? Do we do "ministry" for God, or ourselves.
How much of what we do is inspired by God? Or how much do we do to impress ourselves, or others, or even impress God?
How much do we do as humanism that we put under christianity.
How much of our "good works" will be exposed for what they really are, when we get to heaven? As chaf blown away.
Don’t step in the leadership.
Don’t step in the leadership.
Or the double posts.
This “leadership” conference is making its’ way around the country, like a circus. It’s coming to the East Valley here in the Phoenix area later this month, with Jimmy as a speaker. However, their website says that his speech will be on video only.
The problem is Willow Creek.
Beware big government, 5A high schools and mega churches.
All three will, by definition, be out of control.
Willow Creek VA? Isn’t that where east coast Seals train?
Paging Ray Marcinko, got a terroist on your base.
If we have any good works, they are not of us, but of the HS.
Fortunately I’m not getting into Heaven on merit, otherwise I would be going someplace much warmer.
susie
And your scource for this is???
They have so deceived a nation of religionists with their “Entertainment Tonight” Christendom. No biblical principles, and therefore no Holy Spirit. So people speak about how men like Hybles have made themselves over. Perhaps, then the Holy Spirit never regenerated them. Phonies. The people they highlight in their entertainment, offend nobody, feel-good, warm-fuzzy churches will show them up for what they are. Want true men in pulpits? Look at Matthew chapters 3, 11, 14, and such places. They are men who expect biblical repentance and national confession of sins. They are men who will preach and cry out against the sins of political leaders.
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure (Phil. 2:12-13).
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, kindness, generosity, faithfulness (Gal. 5:22).
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God-not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life (Eph. 2:8-9).
Absolutely disgusting.
That is the only source I'd accept.
But your statement
If we have any good works, they are not of us, but of the HS.
Would lead me to believe that any good works we do are automatically of God.
And yet Isaiah 64:6 states But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
That verse would lead me to believe that our good works are filthy if not part of God.
Phillipians 2:3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Paul is talking to christians, which means we can do things with wrong motives or agendas.
Ephesians 2:8,9 tells us we are saved by GRACE..not by works, so that we have nothing to boast of. This speaks specifically of salvation, but it still draws on the fact that with works can come boasting. The problem with OUR boasting is that it draws attention to ourselves and away from God.
John 7:18 He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.
That means, I can speak on my own, to honor myself.
Matthew 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
So just because someone claims to be a christian or mouths the words of "giving God the glory" doesn't mean they're actually doing Gods work, or knowing God.
Jeremiah 17:9The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Lastly, you mentioned Phillipians 2:12-13, verse 12 ...work out your salvation with fear and trembling, This has nothing to do with working to be saved, but to bring sobriety to what exactly we are doing.
We are of like minds, in that we are saved by GRACE, and GRACE ALONE.
Not by works.
I just wanted to clarify that the works that some do can be not of God.
Knot on a log.
I don’t believe any good works we do are of anything BUT God. Your mileage may vary (and I am not much of a scholar, so any debate with me would be pointless!)
God Bless you.
susie
When are you going to stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really think of Hybles and Warren?
I guess he wasn’t going to be outdone by his competitor Rick Warren inviting Obama to the AIDS summit at Saddleback. He’s enslaved like so many megapastors by the tyranny of numbers and market share.
Look, the evangelical church seems to be being led by people like Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, Jim Wallis, and other theological liberals. so your answer is YES.
But you're right, bringing in Carter and further liberalism is like throwing gas on a fire to put it out.
I guess you answered your own question.
Maybe Jimmy is covering what not to do. He seems to be an expert in that.
Hybels Features 'Disturbing' Interview with British Screenwriter
Hybels left the reservation years ago, embracing gnostic teaching, mystics (same thing), T.D. Jakes, and is a man-pleaser rather than a God pleaser. From such turn away.
yup. Too bad so many are still fooled by people like him, Joel (Rembrandt) Osteen, Rick Warren, etc. Even Chuck Swindoll and David Jeremiah are going contemplative.
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