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When mothers keep a deadly secret (Murdering Newborns)
LA Times ^ | 13 August 2007 | Geoff McKee

Posted on 08/13/2007 4:35:05 AM PDT by shrinkermd

...Few crimes generate greater public reaction than neonaticide: when a mother kills her baby, or leaves it to die, on the day she gives birth. We are repelled, yet mesmerized, as details emerge. How could a woman deny being pregnant for so many months? How could no one notice? How could a mother murder her newborn?

As a forensic psychologist, I have evaluated 32 mothers who were charged with killing one or more of their children. Fourteen-year-old "Cathy" was one. She had been repeatedly molested by her stepfather, gave birth alone in her bedroom, and then threw her newborn against the wall. "Edna," a college freshman, was so indecisive about ending her pregnancy that she suffocated her minutes-old baby in an act of delayed abortion.

Cathy and Edna denied and hid their pregnancies, common in neonaticide cases, particularly among teens pregnant for the first time. That was also true in the recent Anaheim case in which a 17-year-old visiting from Indiana allegedly gave birth in a Denny's restroom; police said that neither her parents nor her boyfriend knew she was pregnant. (That baby was found alive in a trash can and hospitalized; the mother has been charged with felony child abuse and neglect.)

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionmurder; infanticide; murder; neonaticide; newborns; prolife
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1 posted on 08/13/2007 4:35:07 AM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: shrinkermd

“Delayed abortion” - is that a new term?
How tragic.


2 posted on 08/13/2007 4:45:45 AM PDT by GOPPachyderm
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To: shrinkermd
Prosecution can be difficult too; investigators have to prove an infant wasn't stillborn or didn't die of natural causes associated with premature delivery or accidental suffocation.
3 posted on 08/13/2007 4:46:04 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: shrinkermd
"Edna," a college freshman, was so indecisive about ending her pregnancy that she suffocated her minutes-old baby in an act of delayed abortion. I wouldn't be surprised if a lawyer used that defense and got away with it: She's just a few minutes late is all....just couldn't get around to sticking the scissors in the back of the neck before the head popped out.
4 posted on 08/13/2007 4:47:47 AM PDT by soccermom
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To: shrinkermd

I would have a hard time believing that those who support abortion rights would be upset by the killing of newborns.


5 posted on 08/13/2007 4:48:16 AM PDT by Junior_G
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To: shrinkermd
"Edna," a college freshman, was so indecisive about ending her pregnancy that she suffocated her minutes-old baby in an act of delayed abortion.

And there you have it folks.

There is no bright line. If it is OK to kill the baby two minutes before birth, it is OK to kill the baby two minutes after. We look upon these women as if they are deluded or misguided. Actually, they are more clear minded about this matter than any of us.

6 posted on 08/13/2007 4:59:35 AM PDT by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: soccermom
It's beyond words.

I am utterly speechless at acts such as these. This is where abortion has taken us. Devalue human life of the unborn, and we all pay the price as a society.

7 posted on 08/13/2007 5:00:39 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: shrinkermd; Tax-chick

This gives me a notion that’s hard to express, but I’ll try.

On the one hand I just want to just echo what the others have so rightly said: that I’m speechless, I’m at a loss to understrand this, this is so unimaginably brutal, it’s the fruit of a generation of legal baby-disposal via abortion, “what’s she guilty of, except procrastination,” etc.

On the other hand, I want to say I think the normal, healthy animal instincts in the human species are surprisingly weak. Instinct seems to decree, in other species, that the healthy female mammal will keep her babies in her den or nest or hidey-hold, clean them, suckle them, and defend them from danger. But in humans, this instinct has the power of a “suggestion” rather than the power of a “command,” -— even, a disappearingly weak suggestion in some people.

And so I want to say that as a culture we have to re-commit ourselves to the strengthening of the good animal instincts.

By this I mean strengthening masculinity in boys and femininity in girls, male-female mating through (to use the feminist’s scornful term) “priviliging heteronormativity,” And then strengthen female nurturant behavior by encouraging little girls to play with dolls (not Barbies and Bratz, but real baby-dolls that look soft and huggable and kissable); even, to raise our children at home so that they SEE infant-nurturing happening on a daily basis, lots of it, rather than raising them in daycares and preschools or with the electronic nannies of plug-in entertainment.

It looks like I’m coming full-out in favor of what has been called “gender stereotyping” and against the gender-free, “Free To Be You And Me” autonomy/androgyny thing that has consumed child-culture for the past 40 years.

My argument wanders. I’m reaching, here, maybe over-stating. But still. Does this make even an iota of sense?


8 posted on 08/13/2007 5:26:05 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Mrs. Don-o
You make a great deal of sense. It would be nice if more people would acquire this understanding.

Carolyn

9 posted on 08/13/2007 5:32:02 AM PDT by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: shrinkermd

How could the mothers of minors be so oblivious as to not notice that they weren’t buying tampax for their daughters? For NINE MONTHS?


10 posted on 08/13/2007 5:33:59 AM PDT by nina0113 (If fences don't work, why does the White House have one?)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Does this make even an iota of sense?

*************

Yes, it does.

11 posted on 08/13/2007 5:36:14 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

You are right on the mark as far as I am concerned. But I am an old fogey.


12 posted on 08/13/2007 5:40:15 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: shrinkermd

This reminds me of the simple fact that “pro-choicers” are mostly protecting rapists from prosecution.


13 posted on 08/13/2007 5:40:56 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: shrinkermd

Why is anyone surprised hat this goes on? It’s the natural extension of “the right” of abortion.


14 posted on 08/13/2007 5:45:04 AM PDT by ought-six ("Give me liberty, or give me death!")
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To: Junior_G
I would have a hard time believing that those who support abortion rights would be upset by the killing of newborns.

They're not upset at all. People who support abortion loathe children, especially infants.

15 posted on 08/13/2007 5:46:37 AM PDT by madprof98 ("moritur et ridet" - salvianus)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Well put. I am with you.


16 posted on 08/13/2007 5:47:27 AM PDT by ought-six ("Give me liberty, or give me death!")
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To: ought-six

Maybe Philip Dick’s “The Pre-Persons” should be required reading in junior high schools.


17 posted on 08/13/2007 5:50:39 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

When resources are scarce other mammals do kill and possibly eat their newborns. Maternal instincts in animals go both ways.

The cases in the article have something in common. An environment perceived by the mother as not conductive to having and raising a child.


18 posted on 08/13/2007 5:51:52 AM PDT by sumocide
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To: gridlock
...an act of delayed abortion.

I'm glad MY mom didn't know about that "delayed abortion" thing. I wouldn't have been safe even after finishing high school.

19 posted on 08/13/2007 5:53:11 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: shrinkermd

Every time I hear the term “delayed abortion” I think about the South Park episode where Cartman’s mom sleeps her way up the political food chain to protect her “abortion rights”.

She ends up sleeping with President Bill Clinton, who says she has the right to an abortion, and asks how far along she is, and she says she wants to abort Cartman.

Anyway, I almost had some sympathy for the 14-year-old. Not quite, but at least I can understand, she was being raped, she didn’t want to believe she was pregnant, she takes out her anger on the object borne of her torture.

Then they threw in the other girl, a college student, obviously bright, who simple murders her newborn. And you know, the first girl will end up in therapy, and the 2nd girl will end up running some fortune-500 company.


20 posted on 08/13/2007 6:18:54 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

so many parts of our society, are with the mindset of having a baby is a really bad thing, I am not surprised that these women are behaving in this manner.


21 posted on 08/13/2007 6:25:39 AM PDT by television is just wrong (deport all illegal aliens NOW. Put all AMERICANS TO WORK FIRST. END WELFARE.)
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To: shrinkermd
But...if you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?

Don't know why that popped into my head...

22 posted on 08/13/2007 6:28:27 AM PDT by gogeo (Democrats want to support the troops without actually being helpful to them.)
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To: shrinkermd
Few crimes generate greater public reaction than neonaticide...

True, most of which consists of blaming and trash talking the father.

23 posted on 08/13/2007 6:29:51 AM PDT by gogeo (Democrats want to support the troops without actually being helpful to them.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
It looks like I’m coming full-out in favor of what has been called “gender stereotyping” and against the gender-free, “Free To Be You And Me” autonomy/androgyny thing that has consumed child-culture for the past 40 years.

Absolutely. Repolarization is essential - but a generation of feminist-trained educators and politicians may have to die off first.

24 posted on 08/13/2007 6:32:28 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Wise men don't need to debate; men who need to debate are not wise." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: GOPPachyderm

It may be a new term, but infanticide is an old practice.


25 posted on 08/13/2007 6:39:00 AM PDT by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: sumocide

When a rabbit or rat kills newborns, it means something is bad wrong; this is always indicative of either a sick animal or a gravely defective environment.

A great deal of our human environment is cultural. Related to my point: we have a gravely defective culture.


26 posted on 08/13/2007 6:40:49 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Northern Yankee

“This is where abortion has taken us.”

Infanticide has been around for a long time.


27 posted on 08/13/2007 6:41:18 AM PDT by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: shrinkermd
gave birth alone in her bedroom, and then threw her newborn against the wall. "Edna," a college freshman, was so indecisive about ending her pregnancy that she suffocated her minutes-old baby in an act of delayed abortion.

However, if a physician (I use the term loosely) had of plunged scissors into the top of the babies head and sucked its brains out before it cleared the birth canal, it would have been perfectly legal. The first act is murder but the second act is legally sanctioned. Something is not right!

28 posted on 08/13/2007 6:42:14 AM PDT by cpdiii (Pharmacist, Pilot, Geologist, Oil Field Trash and proud of it.)
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To: gogeo

“Trust me with a choice” is specious because nobody -— not the Church, not the State, not the male, and not the female -— nobody can choose the deliberate killing of the young of our species as a legitimate “choice.”

If a woman has a baby she cannot bond to, will not raise and does not want, that’s what adoption is for.


29 posted on 08/13/2007 6:45:34 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: GOPPachyderm
"“Delayed abortion” - is that a new term?"

I refer to it as, "Singer-cide"

30 posted on 08/13/2007 6:45:37 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: swain_forkbeard
"Infanticide has been around for a long time."

Quite true. So has abortion. Not to mention rape, vengeance-slaying, the abandonment of elderly and disabled, and the deification of tyrant kings. It's part of what the Decalogue was written to prevent.

31 posted on 08/13/2007 6:49:31 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Mrs. Don-o

” I think the normal, healthy animal instincts in the human species are surprisingly weak.”

Gotta disagree there. The instinct to care for offspring is very strong in man compared to other species. Humans generally provide extraordinary care to their young. It is comprehensive and of long duration. It is necessary, of course, to support the rather long maturation of an animal whose brain takes up so much volume and energy.


32 posted on 08/13/2007 6:50:03 AM PDT by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: shrinkermd
Few crimes generate greater public reaction than neonaticide: when a mother kills her baby, or leaves it to die, on the day she gives birth.

Some of the same people who are so incensed at this would think nothing of the baby being killed in the womb the day before birth.

33 posted on 08/13/2007 6:51:30 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: gridlock
Actually, they are more clear minded about this matter than any of us.

Well, I wouldn't say any. Some of us are quite clear-minded when it comes to knowing that abortion is murder no matter what stage of development the unborn child is.

34 posted on 08/13/2007 6:53:05 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: gogeo; Mrs. Don-o
Don't know why that popped into my head ...

Perhaps because, under the influence of the relentless propaganda machine, you've forgotten that "choose" is a transitive verb. The act of "choosing" cannot, cannot, be separated from the object that is chosen.

Excepting the extremely rare preteen-victim-of-incestuous-rape situations, a woman who is pregnant with a child she doesn't want has already chosen to have sex under circumstances in which she could conceive a child she's not willing or competent to rear. That is, she has demonstrated that she does not have the discernment to make wise decisions regarding the life of another person.

As you mention, gogeo, she probably shouldn't be in the position of rearing a child, without a considerable development of maturity and judgment. Adoption would be a much better solution for many children born under these circumstances.

35 posted on 08/13/2007 6:59:59 AM PDT by Tax-chick (All the main characters die, and then the Prince of Norway delivers the Epilogue.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Very interesting thoughts.

I agree that cultural support for our best instincts - to care for those in need, whether that’s infants, the elderly, or the sick - is sadly lacking.

I suppose that to some extent, these instincts are correlated with traditional sex roles, but I don’t think so strongly that I’d make that a focus. I find in my family that everyone - boys and girls - wants to cuddle the babies and visit the elderly. (Cleaning up after the sick is not as popular.)


36 posted on 08/13/2007 7:05:37 AM PDT by Tax-chick (All the main characters die, and then the Prince of Norway delivers the Epilogue.)
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To: swain_forkbeard
" The instinct to care for offspring is very strong in man compared to other species. Humans generally provide extraordinary care to their young. It is comprehensive and of long duration. It is necessary, of course, to support the rather long maturation of an animal whose brain takes up so much volume and energy."

Right you are on every point except, I think, in calling that "instinct" tout court.

More accurate to call that instinct as vastly strengthened and elaborated by culture.

Our brains, which take up so much volume and energy, also enable us to develop morals and manners, customs and cultures, which support and refine the good healthy mammal instincts. And occasionally even empower us, when appropriate, to override instinct for an intellectually-grasped greater good.

For intance, the phenomenon of a society organized to support individuals born with missing or shortened limbs or diabetes or facial deformities (like my adopted son who was born with a cleft lip and palate) is unknown in any other species. Very often, per instinct, they kill their defectives.

So we have cultures. We cultivate, channel, strengthen, and refine our appetites tendencies, and drives. And sometimes redirect them, for good or ill.

37 posted on 08/13/2007 7:11:29 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Tax-chick
"I suppose that to some extent, these instincts are correlated with traditional sex roles, but I don’t think so strongly that I’d make that a focus. I find in my family that everyone - boys and girls - wants to cuddle the babies and visit the elderly. (Cleaning up after the sick is not as popular.)"

Depends on what your traditional sex roles are!

Some societies' highest male exemplar is the samurai, others the pimp, others the Talmud scholar. I would love for my boys' highest exemplar to be their excellent father. (In fact, in discouraging moments ---sigh--- my main hope lies in that.) And above all, Jesus Christ, our Lord.

Got me thinking now. Variety within sex roles. The Community of Saints.

38 posted on 08/13/2007 7:19:43 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Northern Yankee
Yep -- there is no distinction any more. Of course, we knew that -- but now the pro-abort society is acknowledging as much.
39 posted on 08/13/2007 7:23:45 AM PDT by soccermom
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Depends on what your traditional sex roles are!

True. Your post #8 emphasized female nurturing, and unspecified features of "masculinity." I'm certainly not denying inborn differences between boys and girls - with three little boys in the house, I'm literally bombarded with inborn differences. (Also blocks, cars, Lego, shoes, and the occasional airborne brother.)

However, I think the qualities we're discussing come from a level of humanity more fundamental than sex differences. God created us male and female, but more basically, He created us in His image of life-giving love. Men and women (to generalize) manifest love in some distinctive ways, but the fountain of love, so to speak, is the same for both.

40 posted on 08/13/2007 7:34:05 AM PDT by Tax-chick (All the main characters die, and then the Prince of Norway delivers the Epilogue.)
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To: GOPPachyderm

my thoughts exactly.


41 posted on 08/13/2007 7:50:34 AM PDT by mockingbyrd (peace begins in the womb)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

My mom told the story of holding her firstborn and being alarmed by how fierce she felt...no one, ever, was going to hurt her baby. I didn’t have that type of reaction, but I did start crying and wanted to protect her from everything horrible in the world. I know that the first words I said, without thinking, to my second born were “It’s okay, mama’s got you.”

There is something incredibly sick about a culture that can force these basic instincts out. There is no reason why we can’t respect the differences between men and women and celebrate them. I mean, isn’t that what diversity is all about?


42 posted on 08/13/2007 7:56:04 AM PDT by mockingbyrd (peace begins in the womb)
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To: Tax-chick
Perhaps because, under the influence of the relentless propaganda machine, you've forgotten that "choose" is a transitive verb. The act of "choosing" cannot, cannot, be separated from the object that is chosen.

Brilliant reminder oh Mrs. T-C. I have long lost the ability to think even slightly academically, I blame it all on my 24 week old "choice" who is convinced that my ribs are his special comfort zone.

43 posted on 08/13/2007 8:00:58 AM PDT by mockingbyrd (peace begins in the womb)
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To: Tax-chick

Actually, what started me on this meander was the memory that as a little girl, I had no contact with babies whatsoever. I was the younger of only two, and youngest of all the cousins; we had no baby-having neighbors, either.

I grew up never even baby-sitting, having zero contact, and then hit adolescence at the surge of modern (Friedan-era) feminism which spiritedly trashed amd repudiated every feminine virtue.

Consequently, I had never even touched a newborn until I touched my own. And I had little idea of how to care for him, except you swabbed one end and fed the other. My own mother was 1500 miles away, and much debilitated and disabled, and sisters and female kindred I had none.

Of course, being bookish, I read my way into the motherly arts; and thanks to the conservative Catholic set I had fallen into (prolifers) I read the right stuff. CCL and the La Leche League tracts, and the attachment insights of Dr. Sears.

I felt acutely my lack of aptness for what should be normal feminine nurturant behavior. And that was partly due to the lack of a competence-building and baby-loving motherculture.


44 posted on 08/13/2007 8:03:43 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: mockingbyrd

Thank you. I have entire years in which I’m mentally drifty, but right now I’m not pregnant, barely nursing, and usually able to sleep at night. It’s amazing to be conscious :-). Hang in there!

Your post above describes how I felt about my newborn babies, too. When I had a job, I used to go over to the daycare center (Episcopal church, very nice) during my lunch break just to look at my son. Even though he was happy (spoiled rotten by the abuelitas, actually), I hated leaving him, and I gave my notice the day my husband finally graduated from college.


45 posted on 08/13/2007 8:07:49 AM PDT by Tax-chick (All the main characters die, and then the Prince of Norway delivers the Epilogue.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I had very similar experiences, except that I babysat. When Anoreth was born, I was largely clueless. (I also had a job, so she was cared for by people who knew what they were doing - probably for the best, under the circumstances!)

Dr. Sears was a big help to me, when I finally found myself at home full time with children.


46 posted on 08/13/2007 8:12:53 AM PDT by Tax-chick (All the main characters die, and then the Prince of Norway delivers the Epilogue.)
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To: Dudoight

Old fogeys ae the salt of the earth.

When God is looking down at us here on earth, I have no doubt that he looks at us old fogeys and smiles, “at least some of you get it.”

At least, that’s my prayer.


47 posted on 08/13/2007 8:14:22 AM PDT by janereinheimer ((I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.))
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To: nina0113
How could the mothers of minors be so oblivious as to not notice that they weren’t buying tampax for their daughters? For NINE MONTHS?

Maybe they never did in the first place. My mother didn't buy my sanitary products for me, I bought them with my allowance.

48 posted on 08/13/2007 8:15:42 AM PDT by Gabz (Don't tell my mom I'm a lobbyist, she thinks I'm a piano player in a whorehouse)
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To: Gabz

You spent your OWN money, instead of throwing them into the family grocery cart? Actually, if I’d been shopping alone with my Dad, I would have been too embarrassed, at least in my early teens.


49 posted on 08/13/2007 8:57:40 AM PDT by nina0113 (If fences don't work, why does the White House have one?)
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To: nina0113

My dad did all the grocery shopping when I ws in my early teens. By the time I was doing most of the shopping I had long learned to buy that kind of stuff when it was on sale, which did not always coincide with the family shopping cart.........which I was stocking, but dad was transporting (and paying for).


50 posted on 08/13/2007 9:23:14 AM PDT by Gabz (Don't tell my mom I'm a lobbyist, she thinks I'm a piano player in a whorehouse)
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