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Guns Donít Kill People; Illegal Immigrants With Guns Kill People
Political Mavens/Jewish World Review ^ | August 13, 2007

Posted on 08/13/2007 4:42:15 AM PDT by theothercheek

In the wake of the execution-style murders of three promising students – a fourth is fighting for her life in the ICU - Newark mayor Cory Booker tells New York Times columnist Bob Herbert, "There is something going on in our country that people are not, for some reason, awake to." Herbert asks what the solution is to this problem – violent crime – and Booker answers, "It’s not law enforcement."

Herbert notes, "the biggest mistake one could make … is to view it as a problem peculiar to Newark." As usual, his focus is so narrow (gun violence) he fails to see the bigger picture. As the facts of this case emerge, it is clear the problem is not peculiar to Newark. But it’s a problem – sanctuary cities - that only law enforcement can solve, if permitted to.

The alleged ringleader of the group of young thugs involved in the slayings is Jose Carranza, 28, an illegal immigrant from Peru who is accused of aggravated assault for allegedly attacking three men with a bottle and a chair during an October 2006 bar fight in West Orange. Earlier this year he was also indicted on 31 counts of sexual assault, raping, groping and sodomizing a little girl in his care over a four-year period when she was 5 to 9. In both cases, he was able to post bail.

The Star-Ledger (Newark) examines in great detail all the reasons "Carranza was not in jail awaiting trial, or in detention as an illegal immigrant":

[R]outine bail procedures and wide gaps between law enforcement and immigration policy worked in Carranza's favor …

Essex County Prosecutor Paula Dow declined to comment on whether her office had reported Carranza's illegal status to immigration officials after his two previous arrests.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials said they had scoured their records and found no such notification. …

Paul Loriquet, a spokesman for Dow's office, said its policy is to refer cases of illegal aliens to federal immigration authorities only after the defendant is convicted and sentenced. He said to do otherwise would risk having the defendant immediately deported before he could be punished for the crime. …

The federal government encourages, but does not require, local authorities to contact ICE when they arrest someone who appears to be in the country illegally. ICE can place a detainer on the suspect, notifiying jailers that it should be notified before the suspect is released so the agency can seek deportation. After Carranza's arrest on the murder charge, a detainer was issued.

Mike Cutler, a retired federal immigration officer, said Essex County officials should have notified ICE after the earlier arrests, especially given the severity of the allegations against Carranza. If the two agencies were cooperating, Cutler said, immigration agents could have provided evidence for prosecutors to argue at Carranza's bail hearing that he might be a flight risk. …

So what’s Gov. Jon Corzine’s solution? You guessed it: "tougher gun laws."

Morristown Mayor Donald Cresitello has a better idea: deputizing his town’s police department to participate in a national program run by ICE that trains local law enforcement to find and arrest illegal aliens.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; banglist; criminalaliens; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; newark; sanctuarycity; thestiletto; thestilettoblog

1 posted on 08/13/2007 4:42:18 AM PDT by theothercheek
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To: theothercheek
It's really hard to believe that the Mayor and the Governor are not directly involved in this one.

You can see the guilt in their eyes as they seek to misdirect everyone's attention.

2 posted on 08/13/2007 4:47:26 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: theothercheek
So what’s Gov. Jon Corzine’s solution? You guessed it: "tougher gun laws."

The following law, particulalry the RICO Act,is the solution.


Federal Immigration and Nationality Act

Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii) Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens Enforcement RICO —Citizen Recourse Tax Crimes Comment

Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii) "Any person who . . . encourages or induces an illegal alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each illegal alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

· assists an illegal alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or · encourages that illegal alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or · knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions. ·

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an illegal alien for a fee, knowing the illegal alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an illegal alien knowing that the illegal alien is unauthorized to work.

It is unlawful to hire any individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. "Day laborers" or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verification of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the illegal alien labor.

The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

It is illegal for nonprofit or religious organizations to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, regardless of claims that their convictions require them to assist illegal aliens. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens

It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any illegal alien who is in the United States in violation of law. Harboring means any conduct that tends to substantially facilitate an alien to remain in the U.S. illegally. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.

An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien's illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they are illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien's entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that "encouraging" includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious errors. The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities without delay upon entry to the U.S.

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the illegal alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.

Enforcement

A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of employer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual allegations, including date, time, and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third-party complaints that have a reasonable probability of validity. Designated INS officers and employees, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws, may make an arrest for violation of smuggling or harboring illegal aliens.

State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrantless interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship; and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens. Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient. Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer's consent to enter workplaces or residences. Any vehicle used to transport or harbor illegal aliens, or used as a substantial part of an activity that encourages illegal aliens to come to or reside in the U.S. may be seized by an immigration officer and is subject to forfeiture. The forfeiture power covers any conveyances used within the U.S.

RICO —Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, and can include nonprofit associations.

Tax Crimes

Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or Social Security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or Social Security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions. U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than three employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice. In addition to the federal statutes summarized, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.

Comment:

A comment and a published quote by Robert Gaffney, Attorney and County Executive of Suffolk County, LI, NY:

The statutory foundation of United States immigration law has always been the jurisdiction of the federal government, Congress and the federal courts. The preeminent laws concerning the employment of illegal aliens are found in the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. §~ 1101-1503), as amended by the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 CIRCA).

The law states it is a crime to assist an illegal alien who lacks employment authorization by referring him to an employer, or by acting as his or her employer, or as an agent for an employer. 8 U.S.C.S. § 1324a(a)(1)(A) (Lexis 1997). Furthermore, it is unlawful to hire an individual for employment without complying with the employment eligibility requirements for every person hired. 8 U.S.C.S. § 1324a(a)(l)(B) (Lexis 1997). Moreover, conduct tending substantially to facilitate illegal aliens remaining in the United States illegally, where there is knowledge or a reckless disregard of an illegal alien s unlawful status, is a crime, with escalating penalties, encompassed within the provisions of 1324. 8 U.S.C.S. § 1324(a)(l)(A)(iii) (Lexis 1997); United States v. Kim. 193 F-3d 567 (2d Cir. 1999), are considered employees for purposes of immigration law.
3 posted on 08/13/2007 4:49:08 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: theothercheek
Essex County Prosecutor Paula Dow declined to comment on whether her office had reported Carranza's illegal status to immigration officials after his two previous arrests.

Declined to comment? What is she, part of a private corporation? Subpeona her and put her butt on the stand...gawd, this makes me furious.

4 posted on 08/13/2007 4:53:06 AM PDT by Pharmboy ("Liberals love humanity but hate people" Dick Armey)
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To: theothercheek
So what’s Gov. Jon Corzine’s solution? You guessed it: "tougher gun laws."

Tougher gun laws? Right. Ranks right up there with “Zero Tolerance” and “Comprehensive Reform” for non-thinking pabulum for the masses, politician’s don’t have to think type of response.

Reminds me of the “Virtual Fence” routine. It’s an alleged response that will not “offend” anyone, including the criminal illegal border law violator.

Just one little prob with all of these so called answers, they do nothing but harm American Citizens. Then again, where are the American Citizens going to go if they don’t like it?

Sorry cesspool scum politicians such as Corzine should be at the very least, banned from any public office ever again. Let him get a real job.

5 posted on 08/13/2007 4:57:15 AM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: theothercheek
"If the two agencies were cooperating, Cutler said, (blah blah blah) . . . "

Gorelick Syndrome.

6 posted on 08/13/2007 4:58:46 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: theothercheek

The Sanctuary City policy is directly responsible for these murders. I hope this will become clear to people in the course of this matter.

The law must apply to all. If I were to go to Mexico without the proper visas, I would not expect special treatment.


7 posted on 08/13/2007 5:05:17 AM PDT by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: Man50D

bttt


8 posted on 08/13/2007 5:06:20 AM PDT by Guenevere (Duncan Hunter for President 2008!!!)
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To: TLI

If the government does not do something about out-of-control illegal immigrant gangs, the people are going to arm up, and there is nothing the government can do about it.

If Corzine really wanted to reduce the number of guns in New Jersey, he would do something about gang crime.


9 posted on 08/13/2007 5:07:02 AM PDT by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: Pharmboy

She can refuse to answer a reporter’s questions, and it take a subpoena to get her to tell the people who pay her salary her department’s role in this fatal fiasco. At a minimum the state legislature should ask her to testify before some investigative committee. But then, NJ is a blue state and the legislature probably agrees with Corzine that gun laws are the way to go ...


10 posted on 08/13/2007 5:16:43 AM PDT by theothercheek ("Unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything." - U.S. Senate Chaplain Peter Marshall)
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To: TLI

He had a real job. Made billions. Bought the governorship. Bloomburg had a real job. Made tens of billions. Bought the mayorship. Now has eyes on the presidency. Could play a Perot role and ensure Hillary’s election. Kill the rich before they run for office! [This is a joke, BTW, I know I am not on DailyKos.]


11 posted on 08/13/2007 5:18:49 AM PDT by theothercheek ("Unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything." - U.S. Senate Chaplain Peter Marshall)
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To: gridlock

These cities are collecting big dough from the feds for illegals.


12 posted on 08/13/2007 5:20:10 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: Pharmboy

RICO —Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, and can include nonprofit associations.


An interesting tidbit of information that eludes public disclosure anywhere accept Free Republic...


13 posted on 08/13/2007 5:20:52 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans (I've always been hated))
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To: Man50D
Your solution is the fix to a slightly different problem, broader in scope, actually. These thugs were not interested in employment. The violent offenders are not looking for honest work and honest pay. Your post addresses the motivation for sneaking into the country. It doesn’t stop them from sneaking in and it does not get the offenders back out of this country.

But it’s a start.

14 posted on 08/13/2007 5:22:30 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (No to nitwit jesters with a predisposition of self importance and unqualified political opinions!)
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To: gridlock

Are you kidding? Do you know what Mexico does to illegal immigrants from Latin America? If the US did the same thing, ACLU, LaRaza, etc. would be in a permanent state of apoplexy.

I should also mention that I have heard - even on Fox News - that Giuliani made NYC a sanctuary city. This is not true. It was Ed Koch - and I am sure he regrets it now, seeing as how he is one of this nation’s strongest advocates of fighting Islamofascism. Giuliani and Bloomberg merely left the policy in place. Of the two, Giuliani is most likely to back off from that disasterous idea, now that he is running for higher office. If Bloomberg gets in the race don’t expect him to rethink sancturary cities. He was, is and always will be a 100% lib.


15 posted on 08/13/2007 5:22:45 AM PDT by theothercheek ("Unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything." - U.S. Senate Chaplain Peter Marshall)
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To: theothercheek
Illegal Immigrants With Guns Kill People

Couldn't happen. Everyone knows that it's against the law for illegal immigrants to have guns. On the other hand we know that illegal immigrants are immune from most of our laws. Of all of the cases where illegals have committed violent crimes I don't remember a prosecution for gun possession.

16 posted on 08/13/2007 5:30:02 AM PDT by FreePaul
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To: theothercheek

Corzine is a good example — like Schumer, Lautenberg, Feinstein, ad nauseum — of a leftist elitist who believes deeply in a nanny state and the total disarmament of the American people so as to better control them. Corzine and his ilk are sickening little viruses.


17 posted on 08/13/2007 5:33:25 AM PDT by ought-six ("Give me liberty, or give me death!")
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To: Tenacious 1
Your solution is the fix to a slightly different problem, broader in scope, actually. These thugs were not interested in employment. The violent offenders are not looking for honest work and honest pay. Your post addresses the motivation for sneaking into the country. It doesn’t stop them from sneaking in and it does not get the offenders back out of this country.

My solution is on point. Strictly enforcing the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act will address all associated problems with illegal immigrants regardless if the particular illegal alien issue is with guns or employment. They will be stopped if this law and other immigrant related laws are enforced because those considering entering the country illegally will think twice when they see other illegal immigrants being arrested, detained and deported.
18 posted on 08/13/2007 5:35:11 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: gridlock

“If the government does not do something about out-of-control illegal immigrant gangs, the people are going to arm up, and there is nothing the government can do about it.”

Yup. Since the government is allowing such viscious gangs as MS-13 and their wannabe imitators to walk the streets with virtual impunity it will be the American people who will take care of the problem. And that day is coming soon. Of course, when that happens the government will go after the American people, not the gangbangers, since the gangbangers are members of a protected class, and have more rights than we mere Americans.


19 posted on 08/13/2007 5:39:18 AM PDT by ought-six ("Give me liberty, or give me death!")
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To: theothercheek

Yeah Corrizine

90 MPH on the highway
No seat belt

And other do as I say politician


20 posted on 08/13/2007 5:42:17 AM PDT by uncbob (m first)
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To: stevie_d_64

Does this mean that we can file RICO suits against the Catholic Church Diocese in LA? At the very least, any organization that acts as a sanctuary for illegals should lose Tax Exempt status.

RamS


21 posted on 08/13/2007 5:44:26 AM PDT by RamingtonStall (More Guns ==> Less Crime! Get your CHL today! http://www.ohioccw.org/)
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To: Man50D

Just as important is that if the effort to agressively and openly enforce these laws were to be done by our government, it does have sufficient evidence in the past to have a trickle down effect on those that they may never actually come into contact with...

What was it President Eisenhower instituted an aggressive immigration reform effort that actually involved arresting and deporting a number of illegals in this country that forced scores more to immigrate back out of the country without us lifting a finger...

Kind of a win/win situation if you ask me...

But the difference now is we do not, and will not, in this particular political climate have anyone with the stones to do it again...

When people start stating that “talk” is cheap, I tend to believe that all the talk is certainly cheap, but the cost to us in the long run is what is killing us...Literally...


22 posted on 08/13/2007 5:51:16 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans (I've always been hated))
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To: ought-six
Corzine is a good example — like Schumer Schmucky, Lautenberg Lousyberg, Feinstein FrankenFeinstein,
23 posted on 08/13/2007 5:51:32 AM PDT by Long Island Pete
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To: stevie_d_64; theothercheek

Thanks to both of you for your informative answers (I learn more good stuff on FR than from all the MSM COMBINED!)


24 posted on 08/13/2007 5:53:41 AM PDT by Pharmboy ("Liberals love humanity but hate people" Dick Armey)
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To: Man50D

I’ve been reading all these stories about farmers, restauranteurs and hotel chains claiming they will be put out of business if they can’t get an endless supply of minimum wage illegal labor.

We, the taxpayers, are supposed to provide the medical insurance, housing, groceries etc. via public benefits. This way, employers can create jobs that pay so little only illegals will do them. And the illegals can send what little they make back to Mexico.

I no longer think of farmers as rugged, individualistic paragons of Americana. I think of them as unpatriotic parasites.


25 posted on 08/13/2007 5:54:06 AM PDT by theothercheek ("Unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything." - U.S. Senate Chaplain Peter Marshall)
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To: RamingtonStall

Yep...

Just look at what they forked over to calm the masses about the sex scandals...What was that about 650 million???


26 posted on 08/13/2007 5:54:58 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans (I've always been hated))
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To: Pharmboy

Thats what they pay us the big bucks for...;-)


27 posted on 08/13/2007 5:56:50 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans (I've always been hated))
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To: theothercheek
“Morristown Mayor Donald Cresitello has a better idea: deputizing his town’s police department to participate in a national program run by ICE that trains local law enforcement to find and arrest illegal aliens.””

Here is a much more simple solution. It also has a far lower cost. Best of all, it WILL WORK!

Each state legislature passes the following laws:
1. A bounty is placed on all illegal immigrants (and such other criminals as the legislature sees fit).

2. All citizens are allowed to collect such bounties.

3. All assets of the illegal shall be used to pay the bounty.

4. The bounty shall be no less than $1,000.

America did this to help rid the West of outlaws once before. It worked then - it will work now.

Best of all, it does not create yet another layer of bureaucrats (think “useless eaters of your tax dollars”).

In closing, I would also like to suggest that America abrogate the treaty against Letters of Marquise & Reprisal. Privatizing the efforts to deal with Islamic whackos would be easier if the citizenry could join the hunt for Joe Jihaddi.

28 posted on 08/13/2007 5:58:21 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: stevie_d_64

A fish rots from the head down. If the federal government were taking strong action against the illegal invasion the states, counties, and cities would fall into line. It’s called federal funding.


29 posted on 08/13/2007 6:47:55 AM PDT by claudiustg (You know it. I know it.)
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To: stevie_d_64

...and you’re worth every penny! LOL!!


30 posted on 08/13/2007 7:07:12 AM PDT by Pharmboy ("Liberals love humanity but hate people" Dick Armey)
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To: theothercheek
Herbert asks what the solution is to this problem – violent crime – and Booker answers, "It’s not law enforcement."

Jeez, and here I thought that's what law enforcement was for - to stop violent crime !

Why even have it , then ?

31 posted on 08/13/2007 7:17:42 AM PDT by Red Boots
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To: stevie_d_64

The Federal Government is “All Powerful” when it comes to forcing the States to mandate Seat Belts or to mandate 21 year old drinking age. Remember the 55 miles per hour speed limits? The Feds will ultimately prevail on the states to ban Cell Phone use while driving, etc.

Meanwhile, when a City Like LA or NYC decides to be a “Sanctuary City” or when a church organization, like the Diocese of Los Angeles, defies the laws of the land in order to protect the illegal alien invaders, then the Federal Government somehow is powerless to even hold a hearing.

I would like to see the Feds cut Tax Exempt Status, Federal Funds for Education, Welfare, etc. for any group or City that supports terrorists or who harbors Illegal Alien Invaders, including the entire church in any State where one part of the church defies the Federal Laws.

Yes, I believe the number for the Parasite Lawyers circling the Diocese of Los Angeles was $650-million. Now, perhaps a RICO suit against all the churches that harbor the Illegal Aliens could follow the same pattern and we can create some more rich Lawyers. At some Point, perhaps the leaders of the Churches will remember to “.... render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to render to God the things that are God’s.”

RamS


32 posted on 08/13/2007 8:00:56 AM PDT by RamingtonStall (More Guns ==> Less Crime! Get your CHL today! http://www.ohioccw.org/)
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To: All

Illegals and legals from lawless nations are bringing their criminal culture with them, and flipped out, progressive dimwits can’t think of anything to do but disarm the rest of us. One would think they want things to get worse.


33 posted on 08/13/2007 8:02:36 AM PDT by pallis
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To: Man50D
My solution is on point. Strictly enforcing the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act will address all associated problems with illegal immigrants regardless if the particular illegal alien issue is with guns or employment. They will be stopped if this law and other immigrant related laws are enforced because those considering entering the country illegally will think twice when they see other illegal immigrants being arrested, detained and deported.

I am not suggesting your solution not be implemented. It helps the broader scope in the LONG RUN. Right now, there should be no bail allowed for illegal immigrants and all should be arrested and detained indefinitely (until immigration gets them out of country) for everything from speeding to murder. If we catch them, they go to jail and do not get access to the rights afforded by US citizens in accordance with our national constitution.

This will, in the short term start getting them out of the mix and sending them away. This needs to come in conjunction with a wall/fence.

Why won't it happen? Because our constitution in it's current form is weak with regards to "rights endowed by our creator." The constitution is by and for American Citizens but it is weak on the actual definition of what an American citizen is. It needs to be clearly defined.

Then America needs to decide that folks who are not American citizens need to get a separate bill of rights....

Again, none of this will ever happen. So....Put into law that all illegal immigrants discovered by accident, investigation and/or crime be immediately detained without bail during the investigation.

I won't hold my breath.

34 posted on 08/13/2007 8:15:31 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (No to nitwit jesters with a predisposition of self importance and unqualified political opinions!)
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To: theothercheek

If the RICO portion of the Federal Immigration laws is correct, why hasn’t some anti-illegal outfit instituted a lawsuit? God knows, there are enough targets.

Have we no organizations to do this? Deep pockets will probably be needed, as the ACLU et al, come to the aid of the defendant.

If there isn’t any obscure legal reason to prevent a lawsuit, who will step up to the plate? I for one would contribute to some organization’s “RICO Fund”, for once a lawsuit was initiated, I believe it would chill any more ideas of “sanctaury” anything.


35 posted on 08/13/2007 9:19:17 AM PDT by Oatka (A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." ĖBertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..

ping


36 posted on 08/13/2007 10:20:37 AM PDT by gubamyster
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To: RamingtonStall

>render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to render to God the things that are God’s.”

If you have time, read this (it’s the second item):
http://thestilettoblog.com/2007/01/17/the-daily-blade-tsa-we-have-lost-our-stinking-badges.aspx


37 posted on 08/13/2007 6:04:56 PM PDT by theothercheek ("Unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything." - U.S. Senate Chaplain Peter Marshall)
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To: theothercheek
Ref

There is no conflict here. Evangelical Christians and illegal immigrants alike must obey the law. Breaking or circumventing the laws of a duly elected government makes you a bad Christian.

I agree. There is no conflict at all. For the Churches to advocate for illiegal aliens is wrong, period. For Cities to declare themselves agianst the Laws of the United States is Wrong and should be dealt with every bit as harshly as these same cities would deal with a Rapist or a DUI offender. The churches and Cities have lots of options for helping foreign people who need help WITHOUT bringing them in to the USA Ilegally. Let them feel free to give away their money as much as they want to.

RamS
38 posted on 08/13/2007 6:56:15 PM PDT by RamingtonStall (More Guns ==> Less Crime! Get your CHL today! http://www.ohioccw.org/)
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To: theothercheek
But then, NJ is a blue state and the legislature probably agrees with Corzine that gun laws are the way to go ...

They certainly have in the past...right back to the days when Storming Norman's dad, Herbert Norman Schwarzkopf, was the first head of their State Police

39 posted on 08/13/2007 9:40:53 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: RamingtonStall

“Does this mean that we can file RICO suits against the Catholic Church Diocese in LA?”

The Catholic Church in general is really making me sick about this illegal immigration. I realize it is not all Catholics (in fact, probably very few Catholics), but it is certainly the Church heiarchy. Does anyone think that if all of these illegals coming across the border were good little protestants that the Catholic church would be taking this stance?


40 posted on 08/14/2007 9:31:45 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: theothercheek

In today’s washington post

AIKEN, S.C. — Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani vowed Tuesday to stop the flow of illegal immigrants into the United States by closely tracking visitors to the country and beefing up border security.

“We can end illegal immigration. I promise you, we can end illegal immigration,” the former New York mayor said at a community center _ the first of the day’s two stops in this early voting state.

Giuliani said he would require a uniform identification card for foreign workers and students and create a central database to track the legal status of visitors to the country. He told the crowd of more than 300 that 12 million immigrants have entered the country illegally.

“That’s a lot of people to walk over your border without being identified,” he said.

Giuliani wants a tamperproof ID card that includes fingerprinting for everyone entering the country and a central database to track when they leave.

The ID card and other immigration proposals have been part of Giuliani’s campaign speeches for several months. He says he would allow a pathway to citizenship only for illegal immigrants who identify themselves as illegal, who learn English and who go to the back of the line to apply.

Rival Mitt Romney has criticized Giuliani on immigration, arguing that he supported illegal immigration when he was mayor _ a charge Giuliani rejected.

Romney said last week that Giuliani “instructed city workers not to provide information to the federal government that would allow them to enforce the law. New York City was the poster child for sanctuary cities in the country.”

New York has never officially declared itself a “sanctuary city.” Last month, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg told Congress that the city protects residents’ confidentiality when they report a crime or seek medical care or education _ a local policy that dates to 1988.

Giuliani defended and supported that executive order while mayor.

Bloomberg has said repeatedly that immigrants are important contributors to the city’s economy and crucial to the city’s survival. Asked Monday about the idea of New York City as a sanctuary for immigrants, Bloomberg said, “let ‘em come.”

“I can’t think of any laboratory that shows better why you need a stream of immigrants than New York City,” he added. “I don’t know what to tell anybody. They just _ if they don’t believe that immigrants add a heck of a lot more than they cost, they just aren’t looking at the numbers.”

Answering Romney last week, Giuliani said New York “had the least amount of illegality per capita of any major city in the country and I brought that change about.”

In South Carolina Tuesday, Giuliani said he would continue construction of a border fence, deport any illegal alien who commits a felony and propose that all immigrants who want to become citizens learn English.

Giuliani and Romney opposed the bipartisan immigration legislation backed by President Bush. Rival Sen. John McCain of Arizona was the only Republican candidate to support the measure.

In other words, he vows to stop after giving illegal immigrants amnesty. Please!!!!!!!!!! If you vote for Guiliani, you are voting for amnesty.


41 posted on 08/14/2007 11:06:33 AM PDT by Edie
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

Not all illegals from Mexico are Catholic. Some are protestant, many agnostic.


42 posted on 08/14/2007 11:10:38 AM PDT by rbosque ("To educate a person in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
Ref

The Catholic Church in general is really making me sick about this illegal immigration. I realize it is not all Catholics (in fact, probably very few Catholics), but it is certainly the Church heiarchy. Does anyone think that if all of these illegals coming across the border were good little protestants that the Catholic church would be taking this stance?

I am Catholic and I could not agree more. Any Church Group that supports the Terrorists or that provides aid to our enemies or to the Illegal Alien Invaders in opposition to our Laws should lose their Tax Exempt Status for the entire State where they are located. Enough is enough.

RamS
43 posted on 08/14/2007 11:35:43 AM PDT by RamingtonStall (More Guns ==> Less Crime! Get your CHL today! http://www.ohioccw.org/)
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To: rbosque

“Not all illegals from Mexico are Catholic. Some are protestant, many agnostic.”

I think we can agree that probably over 90% are Catholic, can we not?

If over 90% of them were protestant, do you think the Catholic church would be out there protecting them?

Again, I’m not ripping on Catholics, but the Catholic church heiarchy that is making this decision to protect them.


44 posted on 08/14/2007 2:40:52 PM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

As a Catholic, I am dismayed at the local Church’s position. But I would say up to 90% are Catholic or are Catholic in name only. Having attended Church down there before, many do not practice it. I am upset that the local churches are agreeing with the racist LaRaza and other socialist groups. I am also upset that our laws don’t mean squat to anyone advocating that position.


45 posted on 08/14/2007 4:30:18 PM PDT by rbosque ("To educate a person in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Teddy Roosevelt)
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