For God's sake, does reality even matter?
Posted on 08/13/2007 1:24:12 PM PDT by SirLinksalot
Pope Benedict XVI is working on a doctrinal pronouncement that will condemn tax evasion as “socially unjust”, according to Vatican sources.
In his second encyclical – the most authoritative statement a pope can issue – the pontiff will denounce the use of “tax havens” and offshore bank accounts by wealthy individuals, since this reduces tax revenues for the benefit of society as a whole.
It will focus on humanity’s social and economic problems in an era of globalisation. Pope Benedict intends to argue for a world trade and economic system “regulated in such a way as to avoid further injustice and discrimination”, Ignazio Ingrao, a Vatican watcher, said yesterday.
The encyclical, drafted during his recent holiday in the mountains of northern Italy, takes its cue from Pope Paul VI’s encyclical Populorum Progressio (On the Development of Peoples), issued 40 years ago. In it the pontiff focused on “those peoples who are striving to escape from hunger, misery, endemic diseases and ignorance and are looking for a wider share in the benefits of civilisation”. He called on the West to promote an equitable world economic system based on social justice rather than profit.
This week the Italian centre-left Government of Romano Prodi began a concerted crackdown on tax evaders, saying that it would target individuals with second homes and other signs of “conspicuous wealth”. If the black economy is included, unpaid taxes amount to 27 per cent of Italy’s gross domestic product.
Mr Prodi, a devout Catholic, urged church leaders to speak out on tax evasion, telling the Catholic magazine Famiglia Cristiana that a third of Italians heavily evaded taxes, which were needed to plug Italy’s huge budget deficit. “Why, when I go to Mass, is this issue almost never touched upon in homilies?” Mr Prodi asked, adding: “If memory serves, St Paul exhorted the faithful to obey authority.”
As part of its crackdown the Government said that it was seeking taxes on undeclared earnings of €60 million (£40 million) by Valentino Rossi, the world motorcycling champion.
And just how much in taxes did the Roman Catholic Church pay last year?
Not a new position.
“Render unto Caeser that which is Caeser’s, and unto God that which is God’s.”
Wow, the Church colluding with government to fleece and enslave the people. How novel.
Before you get too snarky..snorky remember how many Catholics there are and think what a good thing it is that the local joe in the pew paid his taxes. So didn’t the your people in your church pay their taxes? Did your church pay any taxes?
That won't deter the anti-Catholics here. This is chum for them.
T'only problem is that every time it has been tried under government control, the cure has been worse than the disease.
The only system that seems to work in THIS world is the one that maximizes individual freedom, and lets individuals CHOOSE to be good. Enforced "virtue" ALWAYS turns into tyranny.
I noticed you didn’t answer my question. :-)
Social Encyclical Coming Next?
Rome, Aug. 13, 2007 (CWNews.com) - The second encyclical by Pope Benedict XVI will focus on economic issues, Vatican officials say.
The forthcoming encyclical would continue the series of papal statements on Catholic social teaching. The Holy Father is preparing the document for the 40th anniversary of Populorum Progressio, the social encyclical released in 1967 by Pope Paul VI.
The Vatican has not formally confirmed that the Pope is writing an encyclical, nor have officials given any indication of when the document could be released. However in July, as the Pontiff began his vacation in the Alps, Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the Vatican press office, told reporters that the Pope would spend part of his time working on a new encyclical. Ignazio Ingrao, who covers the Vatican the Italian magazine Panorama, reports that the focus of the new papal statement will be the process of globalization. Pope Benedict will emphasize the need for economic structures and regulations that promote solidarity and favor the equitable distribution of resources, he said.
In Italy, the Panorama report drew widespread attention because Ingrao predicted that the Pope would explicitly condemn tax evasion. The use of tax havens by wealthy individuals has become a hot topic in that country.
Deus Caritas Est, the long-awaited first encyclical by Benedict XVI, was released in January 2006. Shortly after his election, the Pope disclosed that he did not expect to issue many papal documents— a statement that surprised the many readers familiar with the prolific work of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger prior to his election as Roman Pontiff.
http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=81380
Pay your taxes. I think the IRS wanted to kill me for $3200 in 1980............
There's chum alright. There are 2 points that I have a problem with. 1) Government anal exam of the world trade and economic system. Didn't anyone learn the lesson of Hong Kong? 2) Trying to avoid injustice and discrimination. This one is a two parter. First, the government is involved in way to much crap. Second, the words injustice and discrimination are sending out mad, crazy alarms. Sounds like Robin Hood to me.
No clue why the Pope is involved in this type of debate, but I hope his actual declaration is better than the MSM's blurb.
How about responsible spending, reasonable tax law, and charity?
You didn’t answer mine either...........so does your church pay taxes?
Oh, and I bet you complain about the mainstream media’s coverage of other people/topics. Yet you believe this?
And just how much in taxes did the Roman Catholic Church pay last year?
:::::
Good point. And when will they keep out of matters of law and politics?
Can I hear an Amen!
Good questions both.
And if you believe that “Caeser” is doing something essentially immoral with the money?
If your advice were followed, there would be no pro-life movement as it exists today.
>>You didn’t answer mine either...........so does your church pay taxes?<<
You missed my point entirely. Rather Catholic or Protestant or any other faith, I think it’s more than a little tacky for the leader of a tax-exempt organization — religious or otherwise — to lecture others against minimizing their tax burden.
You’re right, this could be MSM BS. I finally saw the Da Vinci Code this weekend. It has my anti-authority panties all in a bunch. I love God, but the Church... I think its failings speak for themselves. Humans, even moral and well meaning ones, are too easily tempted by power and its arrogance.
Yes he is tax exempt of course he doesn’t live here. The church does and in many other countries. So he is telling his people to pay their taxes. If you weren’t Catholic ....why would you listen to a Pope...unless you were going to make comments against something he said. I don’t pay much attention to what the Dali Lama says. So his is telling his people to obey the law of the land within reason....big deal.
I think all this shows is that the Pope has no concept of how an economy works.
The Italian law prompting the Pope’s announcement was specifically targeting people with “conspicuous wealth”. In other words, the people that drive an economy through their own striving for personal rewards. The Italian government, and now the Pope, want to reduce those rewards. If they succeed in reducing the rewards, they’ll also reduce their economy. The only class of people that will continue to work when personal rewards have been taken away are slaves.
The excerpt mentions that the TAXES due that are being evaded are equal to 27% of the Italian GDP. Think about that. The tax “gap” in the US is less than 4% of GDP. The entire US Federal government budget is less than 27% of our GDP. So how much in taxes are Italians paying ? Add what they are PAYING to what they are EVADING, and just how high is the TOTAL TAX collection their government is expecting ?
A tax gap of 27% of GDP is probably a clue that the people have decided taxes are way too high. Maybe they should try lowering the rates and see if that tax gap shrinks. People are more willing to pay a tax they think is fair.
The Pope is using his position to condemn tax evasion? Is this some kind of joke? Or are we witnessing the final death throes of Christianity? Not long ago, we read that the Pope had proclamations to make about everything from drunk driving to cigarette smoking. Hey, Pope, wasn’t your job the salvation of souls? At what point did you become the stooge for secular government programs?
You seem determine to conclude that I have something against the Catholic Church. Sorry to disappoint, but that’s simply not the case.
If the Holy Father or any other clergy want to take a public policy stand, fine...but that means they are fair game for criticism as much as any politician or activist.
As for your question “If you weren’t Catholic ....why would you listen to a Pope...” My answer: because the pontiff is not only the spiritual father of millions of Catholics, he’s also the head of state of Vatican City. And as such, he can have a profound effect on the course of world events; a perfect example of what I mean is when crazed Islamofascists rioted after Benedict’s right-on-the-mark speech at the University of Regensburg in September of ‘06.
And if if makes you feel better, I’ll gladly slam some a Protestant denomination...such as a couple that come to mind which openly support Palestinian terror against Israel. Just let me know. :)
[Pope Benedict intends to argue for a world trade and economic system “regulated in such a way as to avoid further injustice and discrimination”, ]
And that can be accomplished through the discriminatory selection of wealthy people and the injustice of stealing what is rightfully theirs ?
Successful people are one of those minority groups which cannot be discriminated against, I guess.
And of course, they have no property rights to the fruits of their labors, so stealing from them cannot possibly be an injustice, can it ?
Good thing for the 1st Amendment.
And the pontiff will be wrong.
So how much tax did the Pope pay last year, while enjoying fabulous wealth, and claiming to adhere to a vow of poverty?
Sounds like you're looking for and expecting non-Catholics to be anti-Catholic. I think you don't give your fellow FReepers enough credit.
I honor Pope Benedict as a fine example of living the word, and pay attention to what he says. I don't always agree, but that in no way makes me anti-Catholic.
I do not, and never have, agreed with members of a religious order who take an oath of poverty making sweeping statements about how the world economy should be run. If you listen to them, we all throw all our money and possessions in one big pot and dole them out to those who need them most. Sound familiar? In the world we all live in this does not work. However, this is the way the world they live in runs.
They don't teach Economics 101, especially Austrian school economics, in monasteries. And I'm glad they don't.
I want religious leaders to focus on guiding us in the path of Jesus. The better job of that they do, the less they will think we need their economic guidance.
Hmm... tax evasion more a problem where taxes are higher? Doh!
Btw, the words “tax shelter” were far more important in the U.S. when the income tax rate was at current European levels. Tax statists truly think that income remains static regardless of taxation.
Given that he is the head of his own country, and probably has little personal salary, he probably pays very little. What fabulous wealth do you see?
Absolutely right. The tax system should be fair to all. The way it is now, those rich enough to hire good tax attorneys and so on can find the loopholes, of which there are many. As you say, 32,000 pages is ridiculous. I’m for a flat tax - simple enough a kid could figure it out.
Considering that the Church is the largest private provider of services to the poor they’d be due a refund if they itemized.
Well ... the Pope lives in a palace, decorated with thousands of priceless works of art, has servants at his beck and call 24/7, eats only the finest foods off of gold plates, has fleets of cars and planes, and has one heck of a home entertainment center. He’ll get the use of that lifestyle for as long as he lives.
By comparison, the POTUS lives in austerity.
For God's sake, does reality even matter?
Amen!
THAT is the liberal/socialist/communist trap........Everyone should pay 10-15% of their earnings/wages/salary/profits across the board. Whether it's done as a paycheck deduction or end of month/quarter/year doesn't really matter, or the Fair Tax Plan as a sales tax........
He pays nothing. That is my point. He skates by with the usual communist claim that he owns nothing. In effect, however, he owns the vast wealth of the Catholic Church, and draws upon whatever portion (of that billions of dollars of wealth) he wants, whenever he wants.
I am not saying that this should change, but for him to castigate others in this regard, is massive hypocrisy.
Vatican City is only "his own country", because Italy has decided to allow this technicality for the Catholic Church. That is the business of Italy and the Catholic Church, but we all know that Vatican City is in Rome, and Rome is in Italy.
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