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How Much Jail Time? (For women who get abortions)
Newsweek ^ | 8/6/2007 | Anna Quindlen

Posted on 08/16/2007 11:23:43 AM PDT by mngran

Buried among prairie dogs and amateur animation shorts on YouTube is a curious little mini-documentary shot in front of an abortion clinic in Libertyville, Ill. The man behind the camera is asking demonstrators who want abortion criminalized what the penalty should be for a woman who has one nonetheless. You have rarely seen people look more gobsmacked. It's as though the guy has asked them to solve quadratic equations. Here are a range of responses: "I've never really thought about it." "I don't have an answer for that." "I don't know." "Just pray for them."

You have to hand it to the questioner; he struggles manfully. "Usually when things are illegal there's a penalty attached," he explains patiently. But he can't get a single person to be decisive about the crux of a matter they have been approaching with absolute certainty.

A new public-policy group called the National Institute for Reproductive Health wants to take this contradiction and make it the centerpiece of a national conversation, along with a slogan that stops people in their tracks: how much time should she do? If the Supreme Court decides abortion is not protected by a constitutional guarantee of privacy, the issue will revert to the states. If it goes to the states, some, perhaps many, will ban abortion. If abortion is made a crime, then surely the woman who has one is a criminal. But, boy, do the doctrinaire suddenly turn squirrelly at the prospect of throwing women in jail.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: abortion; annaquindlen; quindlen
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To: Alouette
There probably aren't many, if any orphanages in the US--but IMHO, there should be!

If we had well planned out orphanages with loving, involved workers there, then there would be no need for child protective services to remove a child from one bad home enviornment and placing them in another equally bad or worse enviornment.

These orphanages should have oversight by a committee of folks dedicated to making sure that each child is being cared for in a loving, disciplined enviornment.

It would also be a place that mother's with an unwanted pregnancy could leave her newborn to be given up for adoption.

21 posted on 08/16/2007 11:41:59 AM PDT by basil (Support the Second Amendment--buy another gun today!)
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To: Spok

Very well said. I posted something, although not nearly as articulate, which essentially said the same thing as your post.

22 posted on 08/16/2007 11:42:41 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: mngran
The woman get life in her personal prison, she has to live her life knowing she allowed her baby to be murdered.

The doctor gets charged with 1st degree murder and get life in prison or the death penalty, depending on the state the crime was committed in.

Next question?

23 posted on 08/16/2007 11:42:58 AM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super Walmart for news .)
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To: mngran

Jail time for the woman is not nearly as effective as jail time for the person performing the abortion.

24 posted on 08/16/2007 11:43:16 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Paved Paradise
I don’t think that I am willing to be that soft on crime, especially premeditated murder of a child.
25 posted on 08/16/2007 11:43:41 AM PDT by trumandogz
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To: MrB

You GOT it kiddo. Most abortions are done under coercion or pressure. In fact, the very reality that abortions exist acts as a coercion of sorts because many of the woman’s friends, co-workers and so on will suggest it even if she has no desire to do it at all. It’s very complicated.

26 posted on 08/16/2007 11:44:00 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: trumandogz

Think of our daughter, if you have one. When you make it personal, it’s a lot easier to be merciful.

27 posted on 08/16/2007 11:44:48 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: mngran

If an unborn child has the same right to life as a newborn, then the penalty should be the same. A woman who hired a hitman to murder her newborn baby would do some jail time. Evidence of coersion should be taken account for mitigation purposes, but letting the mother walk away scot free treats women like children and encourages home abortions.

28 posted on 08/16/2007 11:45:18 AM PDT by LWalk18
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To: trumandogz

Oops “our” should mean “Your.” Don’t want to start any ugly rumors here on FR (ha ha).

29 posted on 08/16/2007 11:46:13 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: LWalk18

Oy. What can a person say to you? Are you that hard-hearted? When I think of some of the nefarious ways a woman becomes pregnant; and think of how women can be so vulnerable to coercion, etc., to equate hiring a hit man to kill a baby with her seeking to get rid of it seems a little ludicrous.

30 posted on 08/16/2007 11:48:03 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: mngran

It’s an obvious trap. Even most ardent pro-lifers wouldn’t seek a penalty against the woman.

31 posted on 08/16/2007 11:48:07 AM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: mngran

I had not really thought about this before but if an unborn child is recognized as such then it would be the same as a mother standing by , and letting someone kill her birthed child. The penalty...well...that’s what juries are for.
I really don’t see this as a problem though. It is against the law to kill your kids now and almost none do. If abortions become illegal then we are probably only looking at rare cases.

32 posted on 08/16/2007 11:48:21 AM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: NonValueAdded
"Manslaughter penalties for the mom..."

I was thinking something more along the lines of conspiracy to commit murder, as though she was hiring a hitman to kill a husband. The abortionist is the actual murderer.

As with any criminal charge, matters of extenuation and mitigation should be taken into account during sentencing once guilt has been established.

33 posted on 08/16/2007 11:49:35 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Melas

That’s the point of the question.

The asker intends that abortion remain completely legal, in any and all circumstances, and even paid for by people who oppose it.

The answer is - there will be no crime to punish if there is no provider willing to do the crime.

34 posted on 08/16/2007 11:49:51 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: mngran; All

You bring up a not-uncommon argument used by the pro-abortion community. They use it to elicit sympathy, but mostely, they would like us to be afraid of being accused of hating women or trying to control them and their sexuality.

In fact, we see human life as something to be protected and we abhor discrimination. We don’t discriminate between who is and who is not human enough to protect from intentional killing when they are not a threat to life.

The woman is guilty of self-harm, as well as causing the death of her child. We no longer treat attempted suicide and self-mutilation as criminal offenses, but as the result of mental disorders. Those who perform abortions on themselves truly do so “privately.” The State - our society - has a responsibility to treat these women to prevent them from being a danger to themselves.

How do we treat women who kill their child just after birth? Again, the punishments often take into account the state of mind of the woman.

The State regulates medical practice, however. The act of abortion for medical reasons should be treated as a medical procedure. If there is no medical reason - the risk of the life of the mother or permanent physical harm - the abortion should be treated as other homicides are treated.

35 posted on 08/16/2007 11:50:43 AM PDT by hocndoc (
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To: mngran
Before Roe it was a crime to perform an abortion, not to have one. Women weren’t thrown in jail. This is designed to frighten women into backing the pro-aborts.
36 posted on 08/16/2007 11:52:15 AM PDT by colorado tanker (I'm unmoderated - just ask Bill O'Reilly)
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To: mamelukesabre
I don’t think you can consider it murder because they are not technically the murderer. The doctor performing the procedure is the technical murderer. In a way you could say that the woman is a victim.

On the other hand, if you arrange a murder, making an appointment with the killer, then drive the victim to the arranged spot to be killed, you're certainly an accomplice to murder at the very least, and not a victim.

37 posted on 08/16/2007 11:52:30 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: hocndoc

It’s always a pleasure to read intelligent and well-thought-out replies/posts on FR.

38 posted on 08/16/2007 11:52:31 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Paved Paradise

I have both a son and a daughter and have raised both not to be criminals. If one were to kill their child before or after birth they would have to be punished.

39 posted on 08/16/2007 11:53:50 AM PDT by trumandogz
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To: Joe 6-pack

Well, in the case of a hit man hiring, if the act is not consummated then it was conspiracy to commit if not attempted murder. However, if a contract killing is carried out, then the hiring person is is indicted as a first degree murderer. Paying someone else to pull the trigger doesn’t let one off the hook. In my approach, the extenuation is provided by the redeuction of a 1st degree charge down to manslaughter. As for the contract killer, let him or her fry in old sparky with a dry sponge.

40 posted on 08/16/2007 11:54:00 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Brian J. Marotta, 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub, (1948-2007) Rest In Peace, our FRiend)
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