Posted on 08/23/2007 7:38:19 AM PDT by DaveLoneRanger
The discovery of a new species of great ape that roamed Africa 10m years ago has forced scientists to rethink the earliest steps of human evolution.
Fossil hunters working along the Afar rift in central Ethiopia unearthed remnants of teeth they claim belonged to the primitive ape, a previously unknown species of gorilla they named Chororapithecus abyssinicus.
The finding, if confirmed, will redraw the evolutionary tree of primates, suggesting that humans and chimpanzees must have split from their gorilla-like ancestors 3m years earlier than thought. Geneticists have previously put the date at which the human and chimpanzee lineage split from gorillas at around 7m years ago, with humans and chimps diverging more recently, at 5m years ago.
A team led by Gen Suwa at Tokyo University Museum recovered one canine and eight partial molars from rocky sediments in part of the rift called the Chorora Formation that has been dated to 10m to 10.5m years old. The teeth are believed to come from at least three, but as many as six apes of the same species, that lived in what would have been a forested valley following a river that drained into a lake.
The teeth were found to be close in shape and size to those of modern gorillas, with smaller versions of crests that are characteristic of gorilla teeth but are not seen in other apes, the researchers report in the journal Nature.
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
A new species of great ape from the late Miocene epoch in Ethiopia
What we have here is a very modern-looking gorilla specimen. (A Nature author writes that the specimen is "collectively indistinguishable from modern gorilla subspecies".1)
Some other coverage from Creation-Evolution Headlines: Fossil Gorilla Forces Hominid Ancestor Earlier
It's not been a good month for evolution.
Ping?.............
And believe me, when a Great Ape tells you to rethink something -- YOU DO IT.
Evolution predicts nothing and absorbs everything.
The underlying philosophy of naturalism ensures that the premise that the tree exists is assumed and that it merely needs to be redrawn periodically as more ‘evidence’ (always interpreted through the filter of naturalism) comes to light.
Not much of a re-think. The mechanism of biological evolution continues to be detailed.
And what about the Grape Ape? :)
LOL! Oh, I don't know - there have been all sorts of them in DC telling me to rethink my opposition to illegal immigration lately...and I'm not listening. ;)
Why not? The "refuse any new information nor idea" evolutionists, sure. But they were in trouble from the start.
Just keep re-drawing the stuff, and re-drawing the stuff. It’s kind of like a Buddhist with prayer sticks. If you don’t like the answer on the first stick that falls out, just shake it another time and have a look at the second.
3m years, 10m years. All silly.
We just pushed the alleged human-ape convergence back three million years. That doesn’t strike you as much of a big change?
As usual, you misunderstood and mischaracterized the story because of your unreasoned hatred of evolution.
No, it’s commonplace. Fresh evidence does that.
Not to be confused with Loudmouthopithecus Huge-assokissicus
This ape is probably the fork in the road. Part of the population evolved into humans, the other part remained as democrats
That doesn’t strike you as much of a big change?
__________
LOL. On a planet that is estimated to be 4 and a half billion years old, a shift of 3 million years is really not much at all. 3 million years is approximately 6 tenths of 1 percent of the age of the earth. Little more than a blink of an eye, so to speak. So, no, not really that big a change at all.
Now, if one is thinking of a planet 6-10 thousand years old, sure, 3 million years is huge.
I have yet to understand how incorporating new data into a theory is reflective of that theory’s weakness. Seems more part of its strength.
But that's science. </sarcasm>
Your post reminds me of comment in Darwin's Enigma, page 39:
Dr. Raup thought that evolution theory was falsifiable but, when asked why it had not been falsified when no intermediate forms had been found in the fossil record, he explained that the theory had just been modified to fit the evidence: "Well, whether it's valid or not, it's still possible to rationalize the lack of intermediates - rationalize it by simply modifying the original Darwinian theory."Apparently it takes a lot of overkill.It was then pointed out to him: "In Debates, people say,'Sure, the original Darwinian theory has been falsified, but we'll come up with a new one as fast as you can disprove the old ones.'" He acknowledged that this was true: "I think that's true of any conventional wisdom."
Sunderland replied, "But that's not science. You've got to have a theory which is subject to falsification, and if it's falsified, throw in the towel. Now if you want to come up with a new theory, OK. But after it has been changed a hundred times and it is still falsified, at some point someone ought to throw in the towel. Maybe you could say it has been proven as well as any fact of science." Dr. Raup replied, "Yes, I'm sure you've seen how slowly conventional wisdom dies and it really takes overkill."
If the teeth were artificial, then we'd really be in trouble. They'd use that to support the idea of global warming back then.
A lot is known from teeth. It is possible to get a degree in paleontology from study of teeth. Usually doctoral level.
There’s a reason God limited our human life span to no more than 100 years. He realized we would have a specious use for math and no concept of eternity.
LOL
A couple ten or twenty mil years ago, Spiff the Spaceman, who was banned from genetic tinkering on his home planet Sapiens, landed here and found a bunch of monkeys playing in the trees.
Spiff snickered, did a few genetic modifications, and flew off into space laughing his butt off all the way because he knew that he had just set in motion one of the most profound arguments in this corner of the universe.
Did we come from monkeys? or did we just “Poof” out of the sky? Or was the story about Adam and Eve given to us by Spiff before he split?
Wonders of the universe. Only God knows! And as far as I know, HE AIN’T TALKIN!
THERE HE GOES!
Evolution is like Islam. Every time a new hole pops up in the theory instead of admitting it’s a fraud, the new excuse is... oh this new info was always part of Allah/Nature’s plan and the new revelation abrogates the old... nothing to see here, no contradiction at all.
Agreed. The process of evolution is one of God's greatest creations..
But - but - but evolution's been proven and can't be challenged. Or at least the folks who make fun of the posters at FR say so.
Ah, evolution - continuing to perfect the science of bald-faced, unsubstantiated speculation....
“””Only God knows! And as far as I know, HE AIN’T TALKIN!””
Very excellent - so wassup? You sayin’ God developed stage fright after his last performance?
10,9,8,7,6,5,4
That's it, right there. Evolution is a philosophy, not a science. Evolution is a lens through which empirical evidences are interpreted, so as to maintain the structure of the belief system. Evolution is NOT empirical, in and of itself, it merely grabs onto anything it can, and tries to fit it into the pattern, and then claims that this is "proof" for the paradigm. Circular reasoning.
There’s a reason God limited our human life span to no more than 100 years. He realized we would have a specious use for math and no concept of eternity.
__________
Genesis 5 completely refutes you comment above. But I guess you thought that no specious user of math with no concept of eternity (such as myself) would know anything about the genealogy of Adam.
I wonder if you could point me to your Biblical reference to your comment.
remnants of teeth
are believed
one canine, eight partial molars
they claim
if confirmed
at least three, but as many as six
From this they extrapolate a whole new species.
I’ve decided to stick to the Gods of the CopyBook Headings.
Actually it is a great month for evolution for me.
Yesterday I was mowing the lawn & chopped up a snake.
As I stood there pondering the ventral side of the motionless pieces it struck me. No legs! I then recalled the Bible story where God describes the evolution of the snake from having legs to taking them away forever.
Evolution is written in the Bible.
________
I love the new twist on an old theme. Atheistic communist nazis with dead souls we're used to. Now the latest greatest boogyman is added. Awesome.
I cannot wait to get home to tell my wife that I'm not longer a mere atheist communist nazi monkey boy, I've graduated to atheist communist islamonazi monkey boy with a dead soul.
She'll be so proud.
“”””Evolution is a philosophy, not a science”””
......and how wonderful that God gave us curiosity to delight our senses and marvel at His Creations........in amazement and humility....
He's harmless.
“predicts nothing and absorbs everything”
What a great way to put it. If you have a science background, maybe you should write something for these folks...
http://www/textbookaccuracy.org
“predicts nothing and absorbs everything”
What a great way to put it. If you have a science background, maybe you should write something for these folks...
http://www.textbookaccuracy.org
Even he was friendly!
Underlying.. philosophy.. ensures.. assumed.. premise.
(if I may borrow five of your words.)
This assumption of naturalism is then incorporated into meaning, purpose and politics.
Since this foundational faith is so conspicuously philosophical, the hardcore Darwinist will at this point scream loudest, insisting it is conclusively scientific and above reproach.
A journey of spiritual discovery has no map or coordinates and requires no validation....just faith!
“I have yet to understand how incorporating new data into a theory is reflective of that theory’s weakness. Seems more part of its strength.”
Because if it’s a valid theory new findings would be consistent with the theory instead of having to “rethink”. How many “rethinks” do there have to be before you begin to question the theory?
As a prior poster said, evolution predicts nothing. A valid theory should have predictive qualities, but every article I see is of the “rethink” variety.
You beat me to a Grape Ape mention.
They absolutely MUST cling to this theory of how we got here -
otherwise, there is a Creator to be held accountable to.
The changes are to timelines and the changes are small in comparison to the timeline of the universe.
Ah, yes. The theory of evolution continues to ‘evolve’. There’s nothing like building a foundation of scientific ‘fact’ on shifting sand.
Vestigal limbs of an adult ball python.
Were these, umm, "half-cursed"?
A journey of spiritual discovery has no map or coordinates and requires no validation....just faith!
________
Gotcha. You just made your previous comment up out of whole cloth. Given that Genesis 5 contradicts your first assertion, what would the basis of buying into your second, Biblically unsupported, assertion?
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