Posted on 08/25/2007 9:12:19 AM PDT by Reeses
Whoops, my mistake. You are correct.
I wonder if we'll ever get the full story on this.
I think we have all we're going to get. The police wrote their reports directly after the events and the family is trying to make it racial.
I can't imagine being an officer and seeing a 16 yr old threatening his 6yr old brother with a knife. And 3 grown men, including the father, trying to subdue the 16 yr old and not succeeding. This is the stuff of nightmares.
That "child" had a 6 yr old child at knifepoint as a hostage. 3 grown men, pepper spray and a baton didn't stop the 16 yr old from fighting. What should they have done?
stuff of nightmares
Amen. I wonder if these deputies were told it was a hostage situation before they showed up? I can imagine trying to work out a plan on the fly while this poor kid is acting crazy and sitting on his little brother.
By the way, as a taxpayer, legal citizen and one who is law abiding, I believe that does give me the right to raise concerns and even criticize when I feel it is warranted. When LEO's, past or present, retort with the usual red herring of 'you go do it and see how easy it is', I take that as a sign of insecurity in their own abilities to perform a duty that citizens at large charge them with accomplishing.
The people have a right to speak and be heard. This is not the "shut up and pay your friggin' taxes" the Left would hope it to be.
Great! Are they hiring?
Of course, the remark about training had to do with "a sufficient background in nearly any martial art form". So is your county providing "a sufficient background in any martial art form"?
The issue is with the local communities.
No argument there.
By the way, as a taxpayer, legal citizen and one who is law abiding, I believe that does give me the right to raise concerns and even criticize when I feel it is warranted.When LEO's, past or present, retort with the usual red herring of 'you go do it and see how easy it is', I take that as a sign of insecurity in their own abilities to perform a duty that citizens at large charge them with accomplishing.
Two-parter:
(1) Please look at some of the Criticism" written in this thread. "Barney Fifes", provides what useful information? Somebody pontificating that because he knows some 16 year olds therefore all 16 year old should be as easy to subdue as he believes them to be. How would you respond to such a statement of faith?
(2)I note the words "the duty that the citizens at large charge them with accomplishing." The situation is muddied if (a) the citizens at large do not provide the wherewithal, which includes training; and (b)sue, as happened here recently, an LEO for returning fire when fired upon and actually hitting (and paralyzing) the guy who shot at him (and killed his K-9); and (c) hit us with the "Barney Fifes" instead of a criticism or comment that actually moves the question along.
This is what feeds into my rant about mindless complaining. I will eagerly join with you in complaining about MY Sheriff's Office and PD. The communication is abysmal. The failure to do serious "after-action" reviews" is, to me, frightening and frustrating. The jerking around by whiteshirts is unconscionable and pardonable only because they don't have enough personal insight to see what they are doing. And so on ...
But I invite you to reconsider this situation. One thing that would be very nice to have would be transcripts of the 911 call. Did the deputies know they were coming into a situation that looked like it involved a young child as hostage? In many departments hostage stuff is for specialists. Once they're on scene, can they plan a coordinated approach to the 16 yo kid brandishing the (if his leatherman is like mine) 2 7/8" blade and talking about "kill the kid"?
And while people here are talking about cowards valuing their own safety more than the mission, I'd like to note that where I volunteered if you got, say, cut, in the line of duty, your medical bills were on you. It's not like the community was falling all over itself to back us up.
It frustrates me that we may never get a good, non-tendentious breakdown of what actually happened. But it also frustrates me that with guys like Lt Col Grossman writing his excellent books "On Combat" and "On Killing" and with the very useful "Deadly Force Encounters", there still seems to be very little understanding (or even interest in understanding) of what actually happens when cops come on a scene where a potentially lethal weapon is being brandished by somebody who has means and access and is talking like he has motive.
Mind you, as a complete novice how came to this field after his 55th birthday and was one of the few gun-totin' chaplains since Bishop Odo, it blew my mind that I knew what "suicide by cop" was and my captain didn't.
Yeah, citizens, all of them, have the right to voice criticism. We have the obligation to do so as well as we can. And blanket condemnation of "Barney Fifes" doesn't seem to me to qualify as a thoughtful comment likely to lead, even by the smallest increment, to the possibility of a more satisfactory outcome the next time two enabling parents wait for their child to become really, extremely, way out there crazy before calling 911 - which they do because the chanting and singing didn't provide the reponse they'd hoped for.
Pardon typos. Getting sleepy here.
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Legally a child. In the real world a lethal weapon.
A former co-worker of mine, tired of the construction trade and went into law enforcement. It so happens he also teaches many officers, including in my township, a form called hapkido.
Except for the city.....those loons shoot each other way too much.
I'm serious. Your LEOs are very fortunate.
Here in Albemarle Cty we are going from Red to Blue. Here is where I guy I know, a good, pious (in the best sense) cop, was shot at by a burglar, the shot killed his K-9, he returned fire, paralyzing the burglar (COM - hit spine), and was away from his "real" job for more than a year while the whole thing was investigated and then was sued. I think the verdict went his way, or maybe it's still being litigated. I would know if he got nailed, but I am a tad out of touch.
I once got a needle stick-- nothing serious, it was a sewing needle, but still -- while searching a handbag at Juvenile and Domestic Relations, and had to pay for my own blood tests. No giving blood, no communion wine, and no smooching of the wife for a year! And I get to pay for it!
But more than that: because I was a gun-toting lay chaplain to the Sheriff's Office, I blitzed as much material as I could find on the psychology of LE. Not only did I soon know more than the sheriff or the chief deputy, but they resented it. As soon as I knew my job, I became a threat to them.
THIS is the kind of LE which citizens are right to mitch and boan about. There is a LOT of very good material availalbe to the interested person about how to keep your cops healthy and sane and how to equip them to do the job. It's understandable to me that the macho cop on the beat might not be interested in that stuff, but the leadership MUST be interested.
/rant off.
To say it's a Conservative region is to make an understatement.
Cops have a tough job already. I don’t think wrestling 16 year old psychos with a knife is part of the job description. They tried it though (kudos to them), it didn’t work. Bullets work better.
A staff weapon, even a short staff such as a baton, when wielded by someone properly trained in its use, can be very effective against a knife.
I wouldn’t want to but I also would do everything I could to disarm the person without killing him or anyone else. With proper training it can be done.
It’s so easy to be empathetic, caring and holier than thou. In the absense of any other info I bet this kid has a history of bizarre and self-destructive behavior—probably exacerbated by alcohol and/or drugs. Let’s suppose the cops didn’t kill him. Where would this have gone? First the kid would be jailed. Then he would go to court. Judge would sendence him to rehab—afterall he didn’t kill anyone. After rehab kid returns to drugs and/or alcohol. Now he’s a couple of years older. He goes off the deep end again and this time kills someone. The plot is a cliche, but it is reenacted thousands of time in this country every day.
Personally, I try to save my energy and compassion for people that will actually benefit from it. I would love to see all the “caring” people responding to this post expend their compassion on stopping the killing of millions of innocent babies than this disturbed person.
This tormented individual is now in a place where he cannot hurt anyone—not even himself. That is not a bad thing.
There is no reason to believe that wasn't the case. To expect it as a routine outcome under these circumstances is unreasonable and unrealistic
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