Posted on 08/26/2007 5:00:52 AM PDT by jsh3180
As another type of fighter jet is about to begin training over the Navy base on Boca Chica Key, little has been done to resolve neighbors' concerns about the current class of fighter jets that pilots fly while training there.
Nearly two months ago, the Navy promised to hold a public meeting to discuss changes to its Air Installation Compatible Use Zones, so-called "AICUZ maps" that show areas of high noise and accident potential, where development is dissuaded.
No meetings have been held.
The Navy in July asked the County Commission to approve the maps and set land-use guidelines that would restrict development in the high noise and accident areas. The board declined at the recommendation of Growth Management Director Andrew Trivette. Instead, County Commissioner Dixie Spehar asked the Property Appraiser's Office to create online maps or tag properties in the offending zones.
That has not been done, either.
Some residents who live around the base are increasingly frustrated by the noise, and the issue has attracted the attention of the Keys-based environmental group Last Stand, which successfully has sued the local, state and federal government on various issues regarding endangered species and quality of life.
An attorney for Paul Caruso, who organized the Lower Keys group Stop The Planes, has been in discussions with attorneys in Virginia who filed a lawsuit to block jet training at the Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia Beach. The suit ended with a settlement and the Navy agreeing to pay $34 million to 2,100 homeowners, who claimed the 1998 arrival of the F/A-18 Hornets had devalued their homes and subjected them to substantially louder noise.
Key West attorney Bob Goldman, who represents Caruso's group, has "not ruled out filing a lawsuit," he said.
The issue also has raised concerns about fairness and socioeconomic discrimination, as jets fly over mobile-home park and blue-collar neighborhoods on Stock Island, but no longer over tony properties in Key Haven. The Navy contends the maps were changed to more accurately reflect where pilots actually fly — having been instructed for decades not to fly over more residential areas, like Key Haven.
The Property Appraiser's technicians have discussed online maps and tagging properties, but are awaiting more information from Navy officials, Computer Department Supervisor Rob Shaw said Friday. If the Navy and county maps line up, the project could take a week to complete, Shaw said. If they don't, the process could take a month.
Retired Navy pilot and Key Largo resident John Hammerstrom last week issued a report that is critical of the Navy's handling of the map changes and questions whether the Navy fulfilled all of its environmental impact requirements before making the changes. Of the 1,000-page report about the F/A-18 Super Hornets — an upgrade that arrived in Key West in 2004 — and their impact on neighborhoods along the East Coast, "Key West was not evaluated," Hammerstrom wrote.
The report calls for better dialogue between the Navy, county and area residents, and asks the Navy to "appoint a well qualified AICUZ officer and launch a sincere community outreach program (expressly not a public relations campaign) to address the very real concerns of their host," the report reads.
"The Navy has not yet done their part to inform the public of the increased noise and what can be done about it," Hammerstrom said. "Anecdotal evidence indicates that the noise is spilling over the published noise zones. Many folks who bought outside of the AICUZ are now effectively inside it. The county and the Navy have a terrific, but short-lived opportunity to seek common ground and defuse this issue."
Last Stand received a copy of Hammerstrom's report and discussed it at its meeting Monday. The group did not vote to formally endorse the report, but it has designated a board member to work with Hammerstrom.
"He has a lot of good analysis of the issue," said Last Stand board member Dennis Henize, who has been tapped to work with Hammerstrom. "The issue certainly has our interest. In concept, we agree with his [Hammerstrom's] points."
After issuing his report, Hammerstrom also questioned why Air Force F-22A Raptor planes were invited to train over Boca Chica without being factored into the noise and danger maps. Pilots from the 94th Fighter Squadron at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia are slated to train at Boca Chica from Sept. 14 through 24.
The scale of Raptor operations is not sufficient to require AICUZ revisions, Naval Air Station Key West spokesman Jim Brooks said.
"The F-22 does not conflict with the AICUZ," Brooks said. "The F-22 is a visiting aircraft and its small number of operations at NAS Key West does not affect the overall average for AICUZ noise contours."
Langley Air Force Base spokeswoman Beth Gosselin maintains the jets are not louder than F-15 Eagle fighter planes. However, Gosselin did not have information on the exact decibel level produced by the F-22 Raptors.
"We've found that the number of noise complaints since the arrival of the F-22s is similar to the number received in previous years concerning the F-15," Gosselin said. "Next week we will release our latest AICUZ findings, which are comparable to the data prior to F-22 operations at Langley."
Some locals would call in to complain about the noise of the planes. (These planes were music to my ears.) The answer they would inevitably get was, "That's the sound of freedom."
Perfect answer!
Just try buying a house in the Keys to discover how “devalued” real estate has become down there.
Trailer lots with absolutely nothing on them are going for stratospheric prices.
That’s what I tell my kids when F 15s fly over here, sonic boom, house shakes.
I say “Sound of Freedom” kids!!!
One of the best man made sounds on earth. (Music aside!)
The keys.... Perfect place for a bombing range.Screw em
It’s called the sound of freedom, get over it and yourselves.
If you lived on the land before an air station was contructed you might have a beef. If you bought property near an air station you have lost your right to complain, no one forced you to buy a house there.
Well come on and bring the family with you. :D
btw, “Northern Yankee” is there any other kind???? LOL
Nope... Haven't met a Southern Yankee as of yet. Does wonders for conversation though!
God Bless.
Offer to buy the house at market value. If they turn it down case closed. If they sell resell it with a rider in the contract that all future buyers purchase the home with the stipulation that there will be jet aircraft noise associated with the purchase.
Far as most of us are concerned, “Southerner” is a title to be aspired to.
Southerners; sometimes I think they’re the only real Americans left in this country.
So true. As a little kid, I remember hearing the awesome drone of B36's flying over my house. I thought it was neat.
Do you realize that during the revolutionary war a majority of New Yorkers were backers of Britain? Some people just prefer to be ruled. Some don’t.
btw, “Northern Yankee” is there any other kind???? LOL
I've always been charmed by the warm southern hospitality I've encountered when I have been down south. Somthing I always look forward too.
You're a great American!
I always thought "Damn Yankees" was a titled reserved for the New York Yankees! ; )
It's true that when purchasing a home one does scout the area..That was the time to resolve the "noise" question.
“It’s called the sound of freedom, get over it and yourselves.”
What those Key West wusses need is a series of low level flyovers by the B1’s from Dyess AFB here in Abilene.
They knock pictures off the walls! I am in their flight path when they return to Dyess. When they come over I usually stop whatever I’m doing and go outside to watch in awe. Then I go back inside and hang my pictures back up.
Fighters? Bah. I spent eighth through twelfth grades at a school that was directly under the takeoff path for March Air Force Base. C-141s, C-5s, KC-135s, and B-52s rumbled overhead on a regular basis. An awesome thing to see, hear and occasionally feel, especially when they had alerts going on. These people are weenies.
There’s a NAS here in Marietta, GA. Several years back, an A-6 crashed into an apartment complex. The press tried to make a big deal out of it and asked if the station (along with Dobbins AFB) should be moved. The military replied that they were there first. They did not ask anyone to set up residential areas around the base.
As far as noise goes, it is much better today. One rarely hears the deafening A-6 in the air anymore. And the noisy F-14s have been replaced with the quieter F-18s.
Loud, yes. Sonic boom, no.
It sure is!
Most bases, like Oceana, predate the complainers. They were an existing condition when the houses were built.
Were you here in the early nineties (I forget what year) when a large Air Force jet flew low over the middle of Abilene about two in the morning? I was living in the middle of town at the time, and it woke me up- felt like the house was about to collapse around us! They got in some trouble for that, but I think it was just a mistake.
Didn't bother me, once I figured out what it was- told the wife "Sound of Freedom", and went back to sleep :)
Awesome is correct. I remember somewhere around '52 -'53, a flight of three B36's flew over my town in v-formation. Fairly low, say 5 thousand feet. We ran outside to see what the noise was, and the whole neighborhood was outside, looking up!
No? It makes that boom and the windows shake. What, if not a sonic boom?
Some here look up as the jets fly over, with a sense of pride and awe. Others just complain.......”
When I was a kid on the farm in Wisconsin, the Air Force Base on the east side of Madison starting flying jets.
People whined constantly about the noise.
My Dad used to tell them:
“Those planes have USA marking on them. Be happy about that.”
Military jets are forbidden by law from breaking the sound barrier over populated areas of the United States and only do so in extremely limited areas, training ranges, and circumstances, scrambling to intercept a hostile or unidentified threat. If the sound barrier was indeed being broken you’d have a lot of broken windows and lawsuits being filed against Uncle Sam. While it is not impossible that you did indeed hear a rare sonic boom, it is highly unlikely. Military aircraft, particularly fighters, are extremely loud and even when flying subsonic can cause windows to shake and buildings to rattle.
If the sound barrier was being broken over our heads, ok. But i live on the edge of civilization out here in the country. Beyond me is open farm land mostly. And it’s not over our heads, we just hear it.
But what do I know, only that exhusband, who is a jet mech on F15s,, Navy retiree, said they were sonic booms.
Do try not to be so condescending or shall we say “know it all”. You’re not the only one who knows how loud jets can be. k?
:)
AVIATION PING
When I was a kid, we lived in Taiwan at a base that flew F-104s. At the end of the flying day, a jet would go supersonic over the housing area to let the families know folks would be home in a couple of hours. Loved it!
I think San Francisco would be a better choice.
90 miles from a commie country, they should be encouraging the flights!
Typical, airport there first, housing built close to airport, people bitch to get rid of airport after being fully aware that it waa there when they bought.
But because of the airport, it was cheaper.
Instead of cowing to the creeps the Navy should tell them to go to hell!
Do you accept transplants, even from the “Land of Lincoln” (i.e., Illinois, although Lincoln was actually born in Kentucky.)This state is becoming more socialist and government intrusive every year. I can barely breath and to think my family’s been here over a hundred years, makes you want to cry.
Most people are very accepting of like minded people.
Everyone should call and or write the navel base and tell them you like the noise. If you do they have to record the call and take tabulations.
At the commissioners meeting it would have to read XYZ so many complaints concerning jet noise.
Then they would HAVE to state how many compliments on the jet noise.
:-)
Until of course its YOUR home’s property values that plummet.
Yep, I remember that.
I'm not sure what you're trying to convey in your message, but I am thankful for the fact that we live in a country that is free.
What's your point?
Shall we join forces? (BTW... I didn't encourage Sherman on his march through Georgia!)
We used to live right in the flight path for Dobbins. We always knew when it was a training weekend. :)
We moved two miles across a main road, and hardly ever hear them anymore.
Shall we join forces? (BTW... I didn't encourage Sherman on his march through Georgia!)
I lived off Atlanta Rd. a few blocks from the NAS entrance. I loved watching the jets fly over the house.
“I didn’t encourage Sherman on his march through Georgia!”
Now you might as well know that it’s not your valuing freedom and liberty that we are doubting, it’s your lack of common sense and foresight in being born a Yankee!!
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