How hypervisors can defeat GPLv3's "anti-tivoization"

LinuxDevices ^ | Aug. 27, 2007 | Henry Kingman

[Golden Eagle]

antiRepub brings his militant atheist beliefs to tech threads too, and has accussed me of being in some bizzare cult I never heard of before after I shot down his lies defending Russian hackers that cracked Apple’s operating system.

[Dominick]

He said embedded Linux is doing well, and you go off to quote server and desktop stats.

He didn't understand the context, IMHO. I don't see the point in talking when he doesn't understand what I am talking about, much less understand software implemented on Linux and BSD platforms.

[Golden Eagle]

he doesn't understand what I am talking about

I understood what you claimed, and corrected you that Apple doesn't run on Linux, it runs on BSD. You can keep claiming they're the same if you want, and pinging the moderator when you're corrected, but it still won't make it accurate.

[antiRepublicrat]

He didn't understand the context, IMHO.

No, he purposefully ignores context. I've caught him lying about me that way before.

[antiRepublicrat]

No because I've already told you Sun isn't run by green party leftists like Stallman

So again we come down to the fact that it's not the license you're against, but its creator. Thus any complaints of yours about the actual license are irrelevant.

who try to enforce viral license impediments on competitors

Just like Sun's CDDL does! It requires publication of derivative code, it has a patent protection clause.

[Golden Eagle]

So again we come down to the fact that it's not the license you're against, but its creator.

Wrong again of course, despite my perfectly clear post. Not only is the GPL put out by leftist moonbats, they use it to harass competitors and attempt to force the release of software and patent rights from them. Conversely you defend the leftist moonbats and their attempts to steal rights from others, just as we see here.

[antiRepublicrat]

Wrong of course, he clealy mentioned "Samba" which is used in servers and desktops but rarely if ever in embedded systems

In context, Samba is not part of the comment of how well Linux is doing in the embedded marketplace.

For example Windows is used in several popular cellphonnes here in the US

I believe Windows is a minority in overall cell phones, and cell phones are only one of hundreds of embedded uses. Contrary to your lie, Linksys alone has had almost 100 embedded Linux products, and they're just one player covering a few embedded applications.

[Dominick]

Not only is the GPL put out by leftist moonbats, they use it to harass competitors and attempt to force the release of software and patent rights from them.

Prove one instance of this. Frankly I don't think you really know what you are talking about.

I have a even better idea. Don't bother responding.

[antiRepublicrat]

Wrong again of course, despite my perfectly clear post. Not only is the GPL put out by leftist moonbats

Again, it's the people, not the license. If you didn't like the provisions of the license, you would logically be against the same provisions of the CDDL.

Conversely you defend the leftist moonbats and their attempts to steal rights from others

I notice you are still defending those guilty of massive for-profit copyright infringement, calling the consequences of their grossly illegal actions stealing. I'm sure you're honest and consistent, and therefore describe as stealing the fines and restitution paid by those caught illegally distributing Microsoft products.

[Golden Eagle]

I’ve seen reports that most Linksys products are NOT based on Linux, in fact they jerked Linux off their standard 54G product. If you feel you have proof most Linksys products ARE Linux based let’s see it.

[Dominick]

Windows is a minority in overall cell phones, and cell phones are only one of hundreds of embedded uses.

Windows is almost non existant in cell phones. Symbian is one the OS of choice.

Many military vendors that used VxWorks have swapped to Linux. Whats funny is that FSM the RTLinux vendor was picked up by Wind River. I used to use RTLinux for prototyping. A lot more military systems are using Linux in the platform. I can tell you most switches are using it.

[Golden Eagle]

Prove one instance of this.

Easy, the Linksys 54G. One of the main reasons they pulled Linux off and replaced it with something else.

[Grizzled Bear]

beebers on stune.

---

I’m setting my beeber all the way up to Spork Weasel!

[Dominick]

Easy, the Linksys 54G. One of the main reasons they pulled Linux off and replaced it with something else.

Wrong. Linksys uses a micro-kernel, Linux and VXWorks.

They came out with a version that was modified from the standard product that allowed Linux users to flash an OS onto the system. Obviously they found they sold a lot of routers when users can flash their own software.

Linksys courts Linux hackers with WRT54G"L"

The WRT54G (v5+) is a 2GB flash version using a smaller OS. The 4GB flash images don't work on it, yet. The motivation to use smaller flash is obvious, and not political.

I asked you to prove where the GPL was used to interfere with patent or proprietary rights. I didnt ask you who used Linux. You failed.

[Golden Eagle]

No I gave a perfect case, Forbe’s magazine wrote an article about it called “Linux’s Hit Men” whereby the leftists at the FSF threatened Linksys with lawsuits if they didn’t hand their personally developed code over to the moonbats. Don’t blame me if you’re totally clueless about it.

[Dominick]

Nope. Try again. Lets assume this op-ed article is factual.

From the article:
But now there's a problem. The Linux software in the router is distributed under the GNU General Public License (GPL), which the Free Software Foundation created in 1991.

Under the license, if you distribute GPL software in a product, you must also distribute the software's source code. And not just the GPL code, but also the code for any "derivative works" you've created--even if publishing that code means anyone can now make a knockoff of your product.

They didn't ask for the personally developed code. They asked for the source code, and the changes Linksys made. Linksys wrote only a small fraction of the source code. The majority of the code was written by non-Linksys employees.

It is clearly stated in the GPL text, you have to supply source with the binary code. Even at that, why didn't linksys know that the code was based in Linux, and that they had to abide by the license for the copyrighted code they used? Who doesn't know the where code you put in a product came from?

There was no coercion. They could also remove Linux from the system and correct the problem.

As I showed above it actually made money for Cisco, as they sold a lot of routers that a end user can flash, and even produced a special version of the 54G marked 54GL which had provisions for a user to use a Linux OS of their choosing.

The author of this op-ed article, Daniel Lyons, also wrote "Is Linux For Losers?". Do you think it is wise to use an op-ed article to prove some point you imagine you have?

[Golden Eagle]

They didn't ask for the personally developed code. They asked for the source code, and the changes Linksys made.

"Personallydeveloped code" meant code internally developed by Linksys, which the moonbats demanded, meaning I am correct again of course. They got the code, against Linksys's wishes, but Linksys responded by pulling Linux off the standard 54G model.

[antiRepublicrat]

I’ve seen reports that most Linksys products are NOT based on Linux

Not your claim, which was that only one model ran Linux. You're trying to weasel again.

If you feel you have proof most Linksys products ARE Linux based let’s see it.

That was never my claim. I claimed that their most important product range, the one that brought them from obscurity only selling in a couple then-small chains into national prominence, was running Linux. The Linux-powered WRT series was their flagship product and their big money maker.

But let's look. I'll go through their catalog, each category, each item. For any product that could conceivably be running some kind of OS or even a program embedded on a chip:

• 2 wireless entertainment: 1 Linux
• 2 wireless home control: 2 Linux
• 10 voice & phone: 4 Linux
• 19 wireless networking: 14 Linux
• 10 wired networking: 5 Linux
• 4 wired entertainment: 3 Linux
• 2 wired telephone: 1 Linux
• 1 wired home control: 1 Linux
• 13 business wireless: 9 Linux
• 9 business routers: 9 Linux
• 12 business unmanaged switches: 0 Linux
• 23 business manages switches: 0 Linux
• 5 business network storage: 2 Linux
• 8 business adapters: 0 Linux
• 1 business camera: 1 Linux

Ah, forget it. It's going to take too long and I'm starting to see a LOT of product duplication. It looks like they're currently selling products with less than half being Linux. However, notice that this includes a lot of products that generally don't run any kind of operating system anyway (such as notebook Ethernet adapters).

So you are right, not mostly Linux in their current lineup. But know the following:

1. I never contended that most of their lineup was Linux
2. This is still about 50 different embedded Linux products from just one company
3. This is the current lineup, representing only about half of the total Linux models that got Linksys to where it is today
4. It is definitely obvious that Cisco is not trying to eliminate the use of Linux in its lineup due to being caught infringing copyrights, as many of these Linux models were brought out after they settled
5. You are still on record saying they used Linux in only one model and refusing to retract the statement when caught

[Golden Eagle]

It looks like they're currently selling products with less than half being Linux

Which was my original claim on the other thread you're citing, then in one or more posts later in the thread where I may have mispoke you jump all over it. Bottom line Linux use is stalled or declining, stats show it, companies like Linksys prove it, making Dominick's original claims on this thread laughable, not to mention his claim Apple ran on it, etc.

[antiRepublicrat]

They got the code, against Linksys's wishes

Normally making restitution is against the wishes of those caught in for-profit illegal copyright infringement. News flash: bank robbers don't like to go to jail either.

but Linksys responded by pulling Linux off the standard 54G model.

And then turned around and put it in a bunch of other models!

You are, of course, incorrect. They went to VXWorks because it requires half the RAM and half the flash of Linux, allowing the 54G to be produced more cheaply.

And don't forget, they released the 54GL right afterwards, which is basically the pre-VXWorks 54G. In other words, they kept the Linux router, introduced a new VXWorks-based router with cheaper hardware, and switched model numbers.

The sad part is that I've had to tell you all this before, but you never learned.