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Debating Ron Paul
National Ledger ^ | Aug 29, 2007 | JB Williams

Posted on 08/29/2007 4:59:22 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican

Ron Paul supporters are fast making a name for themselves on the web. Not because they are just web savvy, but because they have proven themselves to be the best at hacking on-line polls, invalidating conservative polling data on behalf of their candidate. It seems that even Democrat 527 MoveOn.org is now onboard the Ron Paul anti-war train.

Despite the fact that presidential candidate Ron Paul can not score better than 3% in any legitimate national poll, his supporters claim he is “the conservative” candidate to beat in the 2008 Republican race for the White House. Despite his less than conservative voting record in congress and his Teddy Kennedy like position on the war on terror in Iraq, his supporters think he is the most “conservative” candidate in the race. How?

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalledger.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: binladensboy; daviddukespresident; isolationism; liberalism; libertarians; nationalsecurity; nutburger; paulbearers; paulestinians; ronnutters; rupaul
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A full frontal attack on Ron Paul and his supporters. Nothing hurts like the facts...
1 posted on 08/29/2007 4:59:24 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: PlainOleAmerican

I predict this thread will be inundated in a very short time with the Pauloids.

As YodaSpeak Conversion Widget says: “Like a moth to a light, drawn are they.”


2 posted on 08/29/2007 5:04:50 AM PDT by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: PlainOleAmerican

Paulistinians


3 posted on 08/29/2007 5:05:23 AM PDT by Martins kid
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To: PlainOleAmerican
The DNC is working behind the scenes to make him [Ron Paul] the Ross Perot of 2008, because no Democrat candidate can win unless the conservative vote is divided. Hillary Clinton can not get 50% of the vote in a general election and Barack Obama can not get even 40%. Republicans must be divided for Democrats to win.

Nothing but the Truth.

4 posted on 08/29/2007 5:09:29 AM PDT by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: PlainOleAmerican

Paulettes who respond to this thread: I’m anxious to hear your rebuttal of this piece. Calling names, frothing at the mouth, etc,. isn’t rebuttal. I’m anxious to hear your facts. [I don’t think you can effectively rebut, but try.]


5 posted on 08/29/2007 5:12:38 AM PDT by Clara Lou (Run, FRed, run!)
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To: rlmorel

I’m quite sure you are right...


6 posted on 08/29/2007 5:13:30 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: The_Victor

Amen!


7 posted on 08/29/2007 5:14:03 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: PlainOleAmerican

Totally outstanding article - Take the time to read it.


8 posted on 08/29/2007 5:14:15 AM PDT by Martins kid
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To: Clara Lou

Oh they will.... try that is.

Nothing hurts like the facts when they don’t support your agenda driven rhetoric.


9 posted on 08/29/2007 5:15:10 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: Martins kid

Thank you!

I’m sure Paul supporters will have a different opinion... LOL


10 posted on 08/29/2007 5:15:50 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: PlainOleAmerican

Good post. Grabbing the Popcorn on this one. One wonders, why are Ron Paul supporters so “web savvy”? Their hacking would explain him getting 96% of straw polls.


11 posted on 08/29/2007 5:15:58 AM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: PlainOleAmerican

“The DNC is working behind the scenes to make him the Ross Perot of 2008, because no Democrat candidate can win unless the conservative vote is divided. Hillary Clinton can not get 50% of the vote in a general election and Barack Obama can not get even 40%. Republicans must be divided for Democrats to win.”

This is why I fight the Ron Paul people. Their support of Paul insures a Hillary or Obama (or worse yet both) victory


12 posted on 08/29/2007 5:18:41 AM PDT by Martins kid
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To: The_Victor
The DNC is working behind the scenes to make him [Ron Paul] the Ross Perot of 2008, because no Democrat candidate can win unless the conservative vote is divided.

Well Paul will not get any conservative vote. The only people who say cut and run is conservative are the paulie girls. If he should decide to run third party he will only hurt the democrats by taking much of the surrender vote away from them.
13 posted on 08/29/2007 5:18:49 AM PDT by John D
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To: rlmorel

“That’s cute. Y’all run along now.”

Don’t underestimate the power of that sentence. Erm, those two sentences. When the length of a conversation far outweighs your interest in it, that’s a good way to bail out.

Ron Paul P0N3Z online polls, message boards, and so on. He’s just missing one element.

Votes. Actual citizens who sill actually vote for him. Oh, sure, Ron is fun when he barks the other guys on the nose, but President Paul? Whoah-ho, Huckleberry, c’mon back to the stable. That’s where folks get their second thoughts.

Clicking a mouse and ticking a ballot are two very different activities. Ron Paul gets a lot of press, because he’s interesting — so is Lindsey Lohan. They will both get a lot of ink. I think they have about an equal chance of being elected president.


14 posted on 08/29/2007 5:19:49 AM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: PlainOleAmerican
Let's ostracise, and denigrate all Paul supporters. Then we can go after the Libertarians, and any that didn't vote for Bush. Let's clean this place up.

The dims love it when we eat our own.

15 posted on 08/29/2007 5:20:25 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: The_Victor

I doubt he’ll accept that role and run indipendently. Anyway, he has the potential to pull just as many Dem votes from the DNC favorites.


16 posted on 08/29/2007 5:20:47 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Sworn to oppose control freaks, foreign and domestic.)
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To: PlainOleAmerican
The RuPaulettes are hurting RuPaul’s campaign more than helping it.
17 posted on 08/29/2007 5:24:11 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks ( BUILD THE WALL, ENFORCE THE LAW!)
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To: NavyCanDo

It’s the ONLY explanation...


18 posted on 08/29/2007 5:27:33 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: Martins kid

Yep...


19 posted on 08/29/2007 5:28:05 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: laotzu

The dims prepared this meal...


20 posted on 08/29/2007 5:29:51 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: ovrtaxt

I predict he will pull the Cindy Sheehan voters from the Democrats far more than he will affect the Republican primary.

Ron Paul speaks for Sheehan, Fonda, Kennedy, Pelosi, Reid and Chavez on the war. Not “conservatives”...


21 posted on 08/29/2007 5:31:38 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Nobody is hurting Ron Paul’s campaign like Ron Paul supporters are...


22 posted on 08/29/2007 5:32:24 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: PlainOleAmerican

I’m not a Paul supporter, but he has his merits. He has a grassroots. I’ve already seen his signs. He has a strong internet presence.

I don’t agree with all of his positions, but I agree with many of them. For one, he speaks far more about the constitution and limited government than any of the other candidates. They could care less.

The other candidates fear him because he raises topics that do not wish to discuss or support. Things like the constitutionality or necessity of the Patriot Act or cutting foreign spending. Perhaps, they should take a long hard look at Ron Paul and figure out what makes him so popular. Maybe they could learn something.


23 posted on 08/29/2007 5:33:52 AM PDT by FreeInWV
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To: PlainOleAmerican
The dims prepared this meal...

Too many of us are bellying up to the trough.

24 posted on 08/29/2007 5:35:26 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: Martins kid
Paulistinians

Now that right there...that's a truly great piece of propaganda. It's catchy, it's punchy, it makes the point (that the association is false just makes it so much sweeter), and best of all IT'S ONLY ONE WORD LONG!

You should take a bow...Goebbels would give you a gold star.

25 posted on 08/29/2007 5:37:23 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: PlainOleAmerican

That’s true, as long as the war is the main issue.

There are a lot of conservatives who find his views on the Constitution Goldwater-esque, myself included. But I’m a Hunter guy.


26 posted on 08/29/2007 5:37:23 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Sworn to oppose control freaks, foreign and domestic.)
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To: laotzu
"...The dims love it when we eat our own...."

Ron Paul and his supporters are not "our own".

Anyone who draws any support from the scum at MoveOn and Code Pink (whether real or contrived) is not "our own".

27 posted on 08/29/2007 5:38:13 AM PDT by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

I wish the Paulestinians were as principled and ethical as they claim Ron Paul to be.


28 posted on 08/29/2007 5:40:05 AM PDT by rightwingintelligentsia
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To: PlainOleAmerican
Y'all buncha Republican party-above-all-else neocons could make the whole Ron Paul phenomenon dry up and blow away overnight, if you wanted to. It would be simple. You just have to

RUN A CANDIDATE WHO WILL ACTUALLY PURSUE A CONSERVATIVE AGENDA.

You know, stuff like balancing the budget, eliminating useless Federal agencies, restoring federalism, shoring up individual rights, cutting taxes...But I'm not holding my breath.

In the meantime, it's nice to have at least one candidate who thinks the constitution means what it says.

29 posted on 08/29/2007 5:42:27 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: FreeInWV; Oberon

exactly.


30 posted on 08/29/2007 5:44:32 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Sworn to oppose control freaks, foreign and domestic.)
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To: FreeInWV

Surre you are not a Ron Paul supporter.... RIIIIGHT. they always start with Lets look at this logical point Paul has made. If you read this entire article (and I recommend the entire article) you will see that the author believes that Paul picks and chooses only the parts of the Constituiton that he wants to enforce. Not a good plan.


31 posted on 08/29/2007 5:45:04 AM PDT by Martins kid
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To: FreeInWV

Your have, pretty much, the same views as I. When I read the article, I could see the sense, in a Goldwater conservative way, in a lot ot Ron Paul’s “sins”

I think I am starting to get a grasp on this conservative/neo-conservative thing.


32 posted on 08/29/2007 5:45:16 AM PDT by David Isaac (Duncan Hunter '08)
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To: PlainOleAmerican
Don't be fooled.. Paul is no Conservative.

Ron Paul's Voting Record (ya, ya, I know, there is an excuse for all of these, state's rights are more important than stopping abortion and fixing the border, Ronnie is making a statement, or everyone else was voting against it and he was just playing the game, yadda, yadda, yadda)

Here are some more ‘Conservative(sic)’ votes by Paul:

Voted NO on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes.

Voted NO on forbidding human cloning for reproduction & medical research.

Voted NO on barring transporting minors to get an abortion.

Voted YES on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons.

Voted NO on more prosecution and sentencing for juvenile crime.

Voted NO on military border patrols to battle drugs & terrorism.

Voted NO on allowing school prayer during the War on Terror.

Voted NO on allowing vouchers in DC schools.

Voted NO on passage of the Bush Administration national energy policy.

Voted NO on implementing Bush-Cheney national energy policy.

Voted YES on barring website promoting Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump.

Voted NO on speeding up approval of forest thinning projects.

Voted NO on reforming the UN by restricting US funding.

Voted NO on requiring lobbyist disclosure of bundled donations.

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits about obesity against food providers.

Voted NO on prohibiting product misuse lawsuits on gun manufacturers

Voted NO on prohibiting suing gunmakers & sellers for gun misuse.

Voted NO on decreasing gun waiting period from 3 days to 1.

Voted NO on emergency $78B for war in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Voted NO on $266 billion Defense Appropriations bill.

Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers.

Voted YES on providing $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers.

Voted NO on promoting work and marriage among TANF recipients.

Voted NO on treating religious organizations equally for tax breaks.

Let's also not forget Paul's Pork Projects (that he voted for before he voted against when he calls them unconstitutional but he is just playing the game when he submits them because everyone else does it.. yadda yadda yadda..)

33 posted on 08/29/2007 5:46:49 AM PDT by mnehring (Ron Paul- The candidate of David Duke, StormFront, 911Truthers, Code Pink, and Wild Shrimp)
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To: rightwingintelligentsia
Better watch out, a RuPaulette has already announced that the use of that term makes you a Nazi.
34 posted on 08/29/2007 5:47:16 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks ( BUILD THE WALL, ENFORCE THE LAW!)
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To: Oberon

OoooOooo - I think we’ve hit a nerve here.
Good morning Paul-bots.
Have some coffee and read the article BEFORE posting - okay?


35 posted on 08/29/2007 5:48:38 AM PDT by Martins kid
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To: ovrtaxt

Ping to post 32, which I took too long composing. There are still a few who remember Goldwater.


36 posted on 08/29/2007 5:48:40 AM PDT by David Isaac (Duncan Hunter '08)
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To: Clint N. Suhks
The RuPaulettes are hurting RuPaul’s campaign more than helping it.

I never would have examined Paul's record so closely if it wasn't for the Paulbearers. Once you scratch the surface, it isn't a pretty site beneath.

37 posted on 08/29/2007 5:48:51 AM PDT by mnehring (Ron Paul- The candidate of David Duke, StormFront, 911Truthers, Code Pink, and Wild Shrimp)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

LOL! (See tagline)


38 posted on 08/29/2007 5:51:58 AM PDT by rightwingintelligentsia (You know a liberal has lost the argument when he calls you a Nazi.)
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To: All

I was having a discussion last night with my brother, and the subject of my sister came up who is a nearly fanatical supporter of Ron Paul. She is a lost person, and the fact that she came to rest in the lap of Ron Paul and Code Pink illustrates that point.

When I told my brother that I have had a lot of interaction with Ron Paul supporters in this forum, and that it was fruitless trying to pursue a discussion of nearly any issue, he blurted out:

“HAVE YOU EVER READ THE CONSTITUTION?”

This made me laugh, as I recognized one of the talking points...I said “Oh, so you have spoken to them as well?”


39 posted on 08/29/2007 5:53:51 AM PDT by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: mnehrling

I found these paragraphs quite interesting -

“Now try explaining why any Republicans support him? When you are through studying the views of his supporters, you will find that they have two common values, a strong anti-war isolationist view of world events and a deep love of their money.

At the end of the day, Ron Paul supporters on both sides of the political aisle are driven by only two beliefs and one motivating factor. They are anti-war because they are anti-tax. They do not look beyond the agenda to reduce or eliminate taxes to see the consequences of the decisions they make. They would bring the war on terror abroad right to our own doorstep to save a few tax dollars and that allows Ron Paul to appeal to anti-war voters from the far left and the far right.”


40 posted on 08/29/2007 5:54:30 AM PDT by Martins kid
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To: rlmorel
“HAVE YOU EVER READ THE CONSTITUTION?”

I sometimes wonder if Paul has read the whole Constitution.. he picks and chooses things that he agrees with and ignores other things..

41 posted on 08/29/2007 5:55:50 AM PDT by mnehring (Ron Paul- The candidate of David Duke, StormFront, 911Truthers, Code Pink, and Wild Shrimp)
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To: Martins kid
Have some coffee and read the article BEFORE posting - okay?

Why should I break with tradition now?

42 posted on 08/29/2007 5:55:57 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: laotzu
If libertarians are foolish enough to follow MoveOn.org types to slaughter, then true “conservatives” have an obligation to slaughter away...

Libertarians make two fatal errors in judgment and they set themselves upon the chopping block.

Fatal Error # 1 - They fail to comprehend that liberal social policies cause liberal social spending, which causes the never ending growth of a nanny state. They hate the growth and the spending, but support the policies that cause it all.

Fatal error # 2 - They think that the rules of international engagement established in 1776 will still protect and defend America in 2008. In 1776, army’s moved into position by clipper ship and horse drawn carriage, they marched in lockstep wearing bright red uniforms carrying single shot muskets and their nations flag. In 2007, they wear no uniform, carry no flag, scatter in the shadows and can take out an entire city and millions of civilians before anyone can see them coming.

Foolish is as foolish does...

Ron Paul and his supporters are following the lead of Kennedy, Sheehan and Fonda, not the founders.

Those of us who know better have an obligation to call a spade a spade...

43 posted on 08/29/2007 5:57:01 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: Martins kid
“Now try explaining why any Republicans support him? When you are through studying the views of his supporters, you will find that they have two common values, a strong anti-war isolationist view of world events and a deep love of their money.

From having some discussions with some here, beyond those who are just rabble rousers, most are so desperate for a return to pure Constitutional values, they latch on to anyone talking about it.. basically, they've been duped. There are two others here who are pretty rabid Paul supports that have a different reason. One admitted he worked for and was trained by Paul's campaign and another said he is close friends with Paul.

44 posted on 08/29/2007 5:58:04 AM PDT by mnehring (Ron Paul- The candidate of David Duke, StormFront, 911Truthers, Code Pink, and Wild Shrimp)
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To: PlainOleAmerican
hacking on-line polls

Evidence for this libelous assertion...?

45 posted on 08/29/2007 5:58:30 AM PDT by steve-b (It's hard to be religious when certain people don't get struck by lightning.)
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To: rlmorel

AMEN!


46 posted on 08/29/2007 5:59:40 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

I’ll second that!


47 posted on 08/29/2007 6:00:13 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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To: FreeInWV
I don’t agree with all of his positions, but I agree with many of them. For one, he speaks far more about the constitution and limited government than any of the other candidates.

The people who genuinely prefer some other candidate need to get their preferred choice to take a strong position on rolling back Big Government, so he can earn the votes.

Let's listen in on their efforts toward that end....

[cricket]

[gust of wind]

[owl]

[another cricket]

48 posted on 08/29/2007 6:01:00 AM PDT by steve-b (It's hard to be religious when certain people don't get struck by lightning.)
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To: Oberon

It’s just a little while longer til Fred officially announces, and everyone forgets about RuPaul.


49 posted on 08/29/2007 6:02:09 AM PDT by End Times Crusader (Ron Paul - candidate of choice for truthers, jihadists, antisemites, druggies, and nutters)
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To: David Isaac

Anyone half-right is also half-wrong...


50 posted on 08/29/2007 6:02:09 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
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