Skip to comments.Debating Ron Paul
Posted on 08/29/2007 4:59:22 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
Ron Paul supporters are fast making a name for themselves on the web. Not because they are just web savvy, but because they have proven themselves to be the best at hacking on-line polls, invalidating conservative polling data on behalf of their candidate. It seems that even Democrat 527 MoveOn.org is now onboard the Ron Paul anti-war train.
Despite the fact that presidential candidate Ron Paul can not score better than 3% in any legitimate national poll, his supporters claim he is the conservative candidate to beat in the 2008 Republican race for the White House. Despite his less than conservative voting record in congress and his Teddy Kennedy like position on the war on terror in Iraq, his supporters think he is the most conservative candidate in the race. How?
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalledger.com ...
I predict this thread will be inundated in a very short time with the Pauloids.
As YodaSpeak Conversion Widget says: “Like a moth to a light, drawn are they.”
Nothing but the Truth.
Paulettes who respond to this thread: I’m anxious to hear your rebuttal of this piece. Calling names, frothing at the mouth, etc,. isn’t rebuttal. I’m anxious to hear your facts. [I don’t think you can effectively rebut, but try.]
I’m quite sure you are right...
Totally outstanding article - Take the time to read it.
Oh they will.... try that is.
Nothing hurts like the facts when they don’t support your agenda driven rhetoric.
I’m sure Paul supporters will have a different opinion... LOL
Good post. Grabbing the Popcorn on this one. One wonders, why are Ron Paul supporters so “web savvy”? Their hacking would explain him getting 96% of straw polls.
“The DNC is working behind the scenes to make him the Ross Perot of 2008, because no Democrat candidate can win unless the conservative vote is divided. Hillary Clinton can not get 50% of the vote in a general election and Barack Obama can not get even 40%. Republicans must be divided for Democrats to win.”
This is why I fight the Ron Paul people. Their support of Paul insures a Hillary or Obama (or worse yet both) victory
“That’s cute. Y’all run along now.”
Don’t underestimate the power of that sentence. Erm, those two sentences. When the length of a conversation far outweighs your interest in it, that’s a good way to bail out.
Ron Paul P0N3Z online polls, message boards, and so on. He’s just missing one element.
Votes. Actual citizens who sill actually vote for him. Oh, sure, Ron is fun when he barks the other guys on the nose, but President Paul? Whoah-ho, Huckleberry, c’mon back to the stable. That’s where folks get their second thoughts.
Clicking a mouse and ticking a ballot are two very different activities. Ron Paul gets a lot of press, because he’s interesting — so is Lindsey Lohan. They will both get a lot of ink. I think they have about an equal chance of being elected president.
The dims love it when we eat our own.
I doubt he’ll accept that role and run indipendently. Anyway, he has the potential to pull just as many Dem votes from the DNC favorites.
It’s the ONLY explanation...
The dims prepared this meal...
I predict he will pull the Cindy Sheehan voters from the Democrats far more than he will affect the Republican primary.
Ron Paul speaks for Sheehan, Fonda, Kennedy, Pelosi, Reid and Chavez on the war. Not “conservatives”...
Nobody is hurting Ron Paul’s campaign like Ron Paul supporters are...
I’m not a Paul supporter, but he has his merits. He has a grassroots. I’ve already seen his signs. He has a strong internet presence.
I don’t agree with all of his positions, but I agree with many of them. For one, he speaks far more about the constitution and limited government than any of the other candidates. They could care less.
The other candidates fear him because he raises topics that do not wish to discuss or support. Things like the constitutionality or necessity of the Patriot Act or cutting foreign spending. Perhaps, they should take a long hard look at Ron Paul and figure out what makes him so popular. Maybe they could learn something.
Too many of us are bellying up to the trough.
Now that right there...that's a truly great piece of propaganda. It's catchy, it's punchy, it makes the point (that the association is false just makes it so much sweeter), and best of all IT'S ONLY ONE WORD LONG!
You should take a bow...Goebbels would give you a gold star.
That’s true, as long as the war is the main issue.
There are a lot of conservatives who find his views on the Constitution Goldwater-esque, myself included. But I’m a Hunter guy.
Ron Paul and his supporters are not "our own".
Anyone who draws any support from the scum at MoveOn and Code Pink (whether real or contrived) is not "our own".
I wish the Paulestinians were as principled and ethical as they claim Ron Paul to be.
In the meantime, it's nice to have at least one candidate who thinks the constitution means what it says.
Surre you are not a Ron Paul supporter.... RIIIIGHT. they always start with Lets look at this logical point Paul has made. If you read this entire article (and I recommend the entire article) you will see that the author believes that Paul picks and chooses only the parts of the Constituiton that he wants to enforce. Not a good plan.
Your have, pretty much, the same views as I. When I read the article, I could see the sense, in a Goldwater conservative way, in a lot ot Ron Paul’s “sins”
I think I am starting to get a grasp on this conservative/neo-conservative thing.
Ron Paul's Voting Record (ya, ya, I know, there is an excuse for all of these, state's rights are more important than stopping abortion and fixing the border, Ronnie is making a statement, or everyone else was voting against it and he was just playing the game, yadda, yadda, yadda)
Here are some more ‘Conservative(sic)’ votes by Paul:
Voted NO on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes.
Voted NO on forbidding human cloning for reproduction & medical research.
Voted NO on barring transporting minors to get an abortion.
Voted YES on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons.
Voted NO on more prosecution and sentencing for juvenile crime.
Voted NO on military border patrols to battle drugs & terrorism.
Voted NO on allowing school prayer during the War on Terror.
Voted NO on allowing vouchers in DC schools.
Voted NO on passage of the Bush Administration national energy policy.
Voted NO on implementing Bush-Cheney national energy policy.
Voted YES on barring website promoting Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump.
Voted NO on speeding up approval of forest thinning projects.
Voted NO on reforming the UN by restricting US funding.
Voted NO on requiring lobbyist disclosure of bundled donations.
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits about obesity against food providers.
Voted NO on prohibiting product misuse lawsuits on gun manufacturers
Voted NO on prohibiting suing gunmakers & sellers for gun misuse.
Voted NO on decreasing gun waiting period from 3 days to 1.
Voted NO on emergency $78B for war in Iraq & Afghanistan.
Voted NO on $266 billion Defense Appropriations bill.
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers.
Voted YES on providing $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers.
Voted NO on promoting work and marriage among TANF recipients.
Voted NO on treating religious organizations equally for tax breaks.
Let's also not forget Paul's Pork Projects (that he voted for before he voted against when he calls them unconstitutional but he is just playing the game when he submits them because everyone else does it.. yadda yadda yadda..)
OoooOooo - I think we’ve hit a nerve here.
Good morning Paul-bots.
Have some coffee and read the article BEFORE posting - okay?
Ping to post 32, which I took too long composing. There are still a few who remember Goldwater.
I never would have examined Paul's record so closely if it wasn't for the Paulbearers. Once you scratch the surface, it isn't a pretty site beneath.
LOL! (See tagline)
I was having a discussion last night with my brother, and the subject of my sister came up who is a nearly fanatical supporter of Ron Paul. She is a lost person, and the fact that she came to rest in the lap of Ron Paul and Code Pink illustrates that point.
When I told my brother that I have had a lot of interaction with Ron Paul supporters in this forum, and that it was fruitless trying to pursue a discussion of nearly any issue, he blurted out:
“HAVE YOU EVER READ THE CONSTITUTION?”
This made me laugh, as I recognized one of the talking points...I said “Oh, so you have spoken to them as well?”
I found these paragraphs quite interesting -
“Now try explaining why any Republicans support him? When you are through studying the views of his supporters, you will find that they have two common values, a strong anti-war isolationist view of world events and a deep love of their money.
At the end of the day, Ron Paul supporters on both sides of the political aisle are driven by only two beliefs and one motivating factor. They are anti-war because they are anti-tax. They do not look beyond the agenda to reduce or eliminate taxes to see the consequences of the decisions they make. They would bring the war on terror abroad right to our own doorstep to save a few tax dollars and that allows Ron Paul to appeal to anti-war voters from the far left and the far right.”
I sometimes wonder if Paul has read the whole Constitution.. he picks and chooses things that he agrees with and ignores other things..
Why should I break with tradition now?
Libertarians make two fatal errors in judgment and they set themselves upon the chopping block.
Fatal Error # 1 - They fail to comprehend that liberal social policies cause liberal social spending, which causes the never ending growth of a nanny state. They hate the growth and the spending, but support the policies that cause it all.
Fatal error # 2 - They think that the rules of international engagement established in 1776 will still protect and defend America in 2008. In 1776, army’s moved into position by clipper ship and horse drawn carriage, they marched in lockstep wearing bright red uniforms carrying single shot muskets and their nations flag. In 2007, they wear no uniform, carry no flag, scatter in the shadows and can take out an entire city and millions of civilians before anyone can see them coming.
Foolish is as foolish does...
Ron Paul and his supporters are following the lead of Kennedy, Sheehan and Fonda, not the founders.
Those of us who know better have an obligation to call a spade a spade...
From having some discussions with some here, beyond those who are just rabble rousers, most are so desperate for a return to pure Constitutional values, they latch on to anyone talking about it.. basically, they've been duped. There are two others here who are pretty rabid Paul supports that have a different reason. One admitted he worked for and was trained by Paul's campaign and another said he is close friends with Paul.
Evidence for this libelous assertion...?
I’ll second that!
The people who genuinely prefer some other candidate need to get their preferred choice to take a strong position on rolling back Big Government, so he can earn the votes.
Let's listen in on their efforts toward that end....
[gust of wind]
It’s just a little while longer til Fred officially announces, and everyone forgets about RuPaul.
Anyone half-right is also half-wrong...
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