Posted on 08/30/2007 2:48:08 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd
Police Officers Question Craig After Arrest at Minneapolis Airport Aug. 30, 2007 —
The following is an unedited transcript of an interview between police Sgt. Dave Karsnia and police Detective Noel Nelson with Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, regarding a June 11 incident at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport. Audiotapes and a transcript of the interview were released today.
Craig was arrested June 11 in an airport bathroom by Karsnia, who was working undercover. Karsnia said Craig exhibited behavior in the men's restroom that was "often used by persons communicating a desire to engage in sexual conduct."
Craig later pleaded guilty to a charge of disorderly conduct. When news of the arrest hit the press Monday, Craig issued a statement saying, "I should have had the advice of counsel in resolving this matter. In hindsight, I should not have pled guilty. I was trying to handle this matter myself quickly and expeditiously."
Under pressure from Republican party leaders, Craig stepped down from his Senate committee leadership posts.
Transcript below:
Investigative Sgt. Dave Karsnia #4211 and Detective Noel Nelson of the Minneapolis Police Department intert 1162
(NN) INTERVIEW WITH Larry Craig (LC) Case 07002008
Larry Craig: Am I gonna have to fight you in court?
Dave Karsnia: No. No. I'm not gonna go to court unless you want me there.
LC: Cause I don't want to be in court either.
DK: Ok. I don't either.
(inaudible) DK: Urn, here's the way it works, urn, you'll you'll be released today, okay.
LC: Okay.
DK: All right. I, I know I can bring you to jail, but that's not my goal here, okay? (inaudible)
LC: Don't do that. You You
DK: I'm not going to bring you to jail
LC: You solicited me.
DK: Okay. We're going to get, We're going to get into that. (inaudible)
LC: Okay.
DK: But there's the, there there's two ways, yes. You can, you can, ah, you can go to court.
You can plead guilty.
LC: Yep.
DK: There'll be a fine. You won't have to explain anything. (inaudible) I know. LC: Right.
DK: And you'll pay a fine, you be (inaudible), done. Or if you want to plead not guilty, ah, and I, I can't make these decisions for you.
LC: No, no. Just tell me where I am (inaudible) I need to make this flight.
DK: Okay. Okay. And then I go to people that are not guilty, then I would have to come to court and end up testifying. So those are the two things, okay. Did I explain that part?
LC Yes
DK Okay Urn, ah, I'm just going to read you your rights real quick, okay? You got it on?
Noel Nelson: Yep.
DK Okay.
DK: Ah, the date is 6/11/07 at 1228 hours. Urn, Mr. Craig?
LC: Yes.
DK. Sorry about that. (ringing phone)
DK: You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer now or have a present, a lawyer present now or anytime during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed to you without cost. Do you understand each of these rights the way I have explained them to you?
LC: I do.
DK: Do you wish to talk to us at this time? LC I do
DK Okay Urn, I just wanna start off with a your side of the story, okay. So, a
LC: So I go into the bathroom here as I normally do, I'm a commuter too here.
DK: Okay.
LC: I sit down, urn, to go to the bathroom and ah, you said our feet bumped. I believe they did, ah, because I reached down and scooted over and urn, the next thing I knew, under the bathroom divider comes a card that says Police. Now, urn, (sigh) that's about as far as I can take it, I don't know of anything else. Ah, your foot came toward mine, mine came towards yours, was that natural? I don't know. Did we bump? Yes. I think we did. You said so. I don't disagree with that.
DK: Okay. I don't want to get into a pissing match here.
LC: We're not going to.
DK: Good. Urn,
LC: I don't, ah, I am not gay, I don't do these kinds of things and...
DK: It doesn't matter, I don't care about sexual preference or anything like that. Here's your stuff back sir. Urn, I don't care about sexual preference.
LC: I know you don't. You're out to enforce the law.
DK: Right.
LC: But you shouldn't be out to entrap people either.
DK: This isn't entrapment.
LC: All right.
DK: Urn, you you're skipping some parts here, but what what about your hand?
LC What about it? I reached down, my foot like this. There was a piece of paper on the floor, I picked it up
DK: Okay.
LC What about my hand?
DK: Well, you're not being truthful with me, I'm kinda disappointed in you Senator. I'm real disappointed in you right now. Okay. I'm not, just so you know, just like everybody, 1,1,1, treat with dignity, I try to pull them away from the situation
LC: 1,1
DK: and not embarrass them.
LC: I appreciate that.
DK: And I
LC: You did that after the stall.
DK: I will say every person I've had so far has told me the truth. We've been respectful to each other and then they've gone on their way. And I've never had to bring anybody to jail because everybody's been truthful to me.
LC: I don't want you to take me to jail and I think.
DK: I'm not gonna take you to jail as long as your cooperative but I'm not gonna lie. We...
LC: Did my hand come below the divider? Yes. It did.
DK: Okay, sir. We deal with people that lie to us everyday. LC: I'm sure you do.
DK: I'm sure you do to sir.
LC: And gentleman so do I.
DK: I'm sure you do. We deal with a lot of people that are very bad people. You're not a bad person.
LC: No, I don't think I am.
DK: Okay, so what I'm telling you, I don't want to be lied to.
LC: Okay.
DK: Okay. So we'll start over, you're gonna get out of here. You're gonna have to pay a fine and that will be it. Okay. I don't call media, I don't do any of that type of crap.
LC: Fine.
DK: Okay.
LC: Fine.
DK: All right, so let's start from the beginning. You went in the bathroom.
LC: I went in the bathroom.
DK: And what did you do when you...
LC: 1 stood beside the wall, waiting for a stall to open. I got in the stall, sat down, and I started to go to the bathroom. Ah, did our feet come together, apparently they did bump. Well, I won't dispute that.
DK: Okay. When I got out of the stall, I noticed other other stalls were open. LC: They were at the time. At the time I entered, 1,1, at the time I entered, I stood and waited.
DK: Okay.
LC: They were all busy, you know?
DK: Were you (inaudible) out here while you were waiting? I could see your eyes. I saw you playing with your fingers and then look up. Play with your fingers and then look up.
LC: Did I glance at your stall? I was glancing at a stall right beside yours waiting for a fella to empty it. I saw him stand up and therefore I thought it was going to empty.
DK: How long do you think you stood outside the stalls?
LC: Oh a minute or two at the most.
DK: Okay. And when you went in the stalls, then what? LC: Sat down.
DK: Okay. Did you do anything with your feet?
LC: Positioned them, I don't know. I don't know at the time. I'm a fairly wide guy.
DK: I understand.
LC: I had to spread my legs.
DK: Okay.
LC: When I lower my pants so they won't slide.
DK: Okay.
LC: Did I slide them too close to yours? Did I, I looked down once, your foot was close to mine.
DK Yes.
LC Did we bump? Ah, you said so, I don't recall that, but apparently we were close.
DK Yeah, well your foot did touch mine, on my side of the stall.
LC: All right.
DK: Okay. And then with the hand. Urn, how many times did you put your hand under the stall?
LC: I don't recall. I remember reaching down once. There was a piece of toilet paper back behind me and picking it up.
DK: Okay. Was your was your palm down or up when you were doing that?
LC: I don't recall.
DK: Okay. I recall your palm being up. Okay.
LC: All right.
DK: When you pick up a piece of paper off the ground, your palm would be down, when you pick something up.
LC: Yeah, probably would be. I recall picking the paper up.
DK: And I know it's hard to describe here on tape but actually what I saw was your fingers come underneath the stalls, you're actually ta touching the bottom of the stall divider.
LC: I don't recall that.
DK: You don't recall
LC: I don't believe I did that. I don't.
DK: I saw, I saw
LC: I don't do those things.
DK: I saw your left hand and I could see the gold wedding ring when it when it went across. I could see that. On your left hand, I could see that. LC: Wait a moment, my left hand was over here.
DK: I saw there's a...
LC: My right hand was next to you.
DK: I could tell it with my ah, I could tell it was your left hand because your thumb was positioned in a faceward motion. Your thumb was on this side, not on this side.
LC: Well, we can dispute that. I'm not going to fight you in court and I, I reached down with my right hand to pick up the paper.
DK: But I'm telling you that I could see that so I know that's your left hand. Also I could see a gold ring on this finger, so that's obvious it was the left hand.
LC: Yeah, okay. My left hand was in the direct opposite of the stall from you.
DK: Okay. You, you travel through here frequently correct? LC I do
DK Um,
LC Almost weekly.
DK: Have you been successful in these bathrooms here before?
LC: I go to that bathroom regularly
DK I mean for any type of other activities.
LC: No. Absolutely not. I don't seek activity in bathrooms.
DK: It's embarrassing.
LC: Well it's embarrassing for both.. I'm not gonna fight you.
DK: I know you're not going to fight me. But that's not the point. I would respect you and I still respect you. I don't disrespect you but I'm disrespected right now and I'm not tying to act like I have all kinds of power or anything, but you're sitting here lying to a police officer.
DK: It's not a (inaudible) I'm getting from somebody else. I'm (inaudible)
LC: (inaudible) (Talking over each other)
DK: I am trained in this and I know what I am doing. And I say you put your hand under there and you're going to sit there and...
LC: I admit I put my hand down.
DK: You put your hand and rubbed it on the bottom of the stall with your left hand.
LC: No. Wait a moment.
DK: And I, I'm not dumb, you can say I don't recall...
LC: If I had turned sideways, that was the only way I could get my left hand over there.
DK: it's not that hard for me to reach. (inaudible) it's not that hard. I see it happen everyday out here now.
LC: (inaudible) you do. All right.
DK: I just, I just, I guess, I guess I'm gonna say I'm just disappointed in you sir. I'm just really am. I expect this from the guy that we get out of the hood. I mean, people vote for you.
LC: Yes, they do. (inaudible)
DK: unbelievable, unbelievable.
LC: I'm a respectable person and I don't do these kinds of...
DK: And (inaudible) respect right now though
LC: But I didn't use my left hand.
DK I thought that you...
LC: I reached down with my right hand like this to pick up a piece of paper.
DK: Was your gold ring on your right hand at anytime today.
LC: Of course not, try to get it off, look at it.
DK: Okay. Then it was your left hand, I saw it with my own eyes.
LC: All right, you saw something that didn't happen.
DK: Embarrassing, embarrassing. No wonder why we're going down the tubes. Anything to add?
NN Uh, no
DK: Embarrassing. Date is 6/11/07 at 1236 interview is done.
LC: Okay
He denies that he did anything lewd over and over again.
If just one Clinton crime got this much press (excepting his lies about BJ Lewinski), they would be finished. And I am talking about crimes such as China Gate....just for starters.
He admitted NOTHING. He objected to EVERYTHNG. He was being badgered, and he was stressed. He kept saying he wants to leave, that he had to catch his plane. That it was impossible for his left hand to go under the divider.
He was a fool for pleading to disorderly conduct.
I wonder if the cop is homo.? It sure seems like some kind of a setup.
Do y’all think Senator Craig was setup?
If so, by who?
And he was a fool for playing 'footsies' in a restoom stall.
He should resign.
By a sick old pervert. Namely, himself.
He’s guilty of being an idiot for talking to the cops without a lawyer present, but other than that I can’t see what he ever admitted to.
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_craig
* A college student who was considering pledging at Craig’s fraternity at the University of Idaho in 1967 told a reporter for the Idaho Statesman that Craig led the student to his bedroom and “made what the man said he took to be an invitation to sex.” Craig responded: “I don’t hit on any men.”[27]
* A gay man told a reporter for the Idaho Statesman that, in November 1994, Craig cruised him at the R.E.I. store in Boise, following him around the store for half an hour. Craig responded: “I’m not gay, and I don’t cruise, and I don’t hit on men. I have no idea how he drew that conclusion. A smile? Here is one thing I do out in public: I make eye contact, I smile at people, they recognize me, they say, ‘Oh, hi, Senator.’ Or, ‘Do I know you?’ I’ve been in this business 27 years in the public eye here. I don’t go around anywhere hitting on men, and by God, if I did, I wouldn’t do it in Boise, Idaho! Jiminy!”[27]
* A professional 40-year-old man with close ties to Republican officials “reported having oral sex with Craig at Washington’s Union Station, probably in 2004.” Craig responded: “I am not gay and I have never been in a restroom in Union Station having sex with anybody.”[27]
Craig is married and has adopted the three children that his wife, Suzanne, had from her previous marriage.[6] Through his adopted children, Craig has nine grandchildren.[7]
What`s that saying again? Oh yes...
“If it quacks like a ...”
Yes, and this man has been exposed to be a gay activist.
Yup...let's immediately believe him and some charlie from '67 and some other anonymous charlie who say he was followed.
Real convincing.
If you were sitting on a toilet and reaching down for something your palm would not be down, it would be up.
Craig is married and has adopted the three children that his wife, Suzanne, had from her previous marriage.[6] Through his adopted children, Craig has nine grandchildren.[7]
And this proves he’s gay?
And how the heck would he get his right hand across in back of the toilet on the cop's side.
Some real stretching on this story.
This is an interesting exchange:
DK: I’m not going to bring you to jail
LC: You solicited me.
You solicited me? How would LC know what gay solicitation is if LC isn`t gay and doesn`t know how the gay bathroom scene works?
LOL. Not exactly a real logical argument, is it?
The homo. lobby. He’s been a vociferous opponent of theirs.
I have ‘computer shoulder’ on the right side. It would be hard to reach backhanded under the wall with that right arm.
If I was already scooted over to the side of the stall to play footsies it would be much easier for me to reach down and across with my left hand. I just tried it at my desk.
I’m not a man so I can’t say. Do men spread their feet out further sometimes to help keep their suit pants from touching the floor?
What a bunch of puzzies. We have Dummie homo’s serving, membership in NAMBLA, but let one Republican even get accused, and he’s tossed out like last night’s fish bones.
Hey, Republicans, GROW A PAIR, WOULD YA’???
the question would seem to be , on which side of Craig was the officers stall located? Left or right ?
If he was on the right side of Craig , then it would be unlikely that a person to the officers left would reach across with their opposite hand to stroke the underside of a stall to their right. Could be a cop set up or lie?
To what political party would this officer happen to be a member of , if any?
Why would one plead guilty to anything?
His response is that of a kid getting caught doing something wrong.
If the man is not smart enough to call a lawyer, what’s he doing being a senator?
Yes. More than sometimes. I hate my pants hitting the floor of a public rest room. (not the word I usualy choose, either LOL)
Craig was on the left side of the officer. Therefore reaching across with the left hand is a reach, literally.
Why did Craig run out of the stall and the bathroom saying “NOOOO” when the office identified himself?
Craig knew what he was doing.
Even his colleagues of over 20 years, are calling for him to resign. Nobody will believe this guy.
Which is why I think it may have been a setup by the homo. lobby.
It's mentioned in the audio...the cop was to the right. Thus, the discussion about having to twist.
To what political party
These we don't know and we're not likely to.
Duh, he handed him his card that said POLICE, and said come with me.
No, but having all these stories from 1967 doesn`t help. My Grandmother divorced in 1963 when she was 40 and married a very wealthy ad exec who was 44 who never had kids. Remember, WEALTHY! Same as Craig here. For most being wealthy means “mucho boom boom”.
When this guy my Grandmother married was 65 he finally came out as being gay which was no suprise to anybody. I mean put it this way; If a guy doesn`t have a kid at that age, either he has the self control of a steel wall or has some issues whether they be psychological, physical or sexual. I don`t think LC has ever been sexually abused, and to me I doubt he has any physical problems as that is rare in men. So what does that leave? GEY! It doesn`t mean he is 100% but it could mean he is enough where he can`t perform.
Everyone has their own ultimate sexual fantasy, it is something each person thinks about every day. To me it seems for Larry, his is having sex with men in public places.
“And this proves he’s gay?’
No. It proves he’s not smart enough to be a senator, if he’s not smart enough to pled inncocent to something he says he did not do.
What idiot would pled guilty without talking to a lawyer? Especially an educated man such as Craig, who has the BEST LAWYERS available to him.
Wouldn't you if a cop thrust a badge under the stall and you were being unfairly arrested?
(Besides, he might have said "NO" but I don't know about "NOOOO".)
Was this part of a larger sting operation? If so, and the officer was authorized to arrest at such a low threshold of overt conduct, how hard would it be for the policeman to have a video camera in the stall to document that conduct?
If the camera was in the officer’s stall, would the guy in the next stall have an expectation of privacy? If so, you could still get a warrant.
Exactly. Disgusting, isn't it?
“Not to defend his decision”
Let’s say he was set up by the homo lobby.
Why didn’t he defend himself and fight this?
It shows EXTREMELY POOR JUDGEMENT.
Judgement that poor does not belong in the senate.
Yeah...like RINO McCain.
That's because McCain hates conservatives and wants another RINO in the Idaho seat.
No. It proves he’s not smart enough to be a senator.
I was referring to the claim upthread that the fact he was an adoptive father proved something.
In either case, Craig connected the dots. He knew he was caught.
Gratefully, the officer jumped the gun and Craig didn’t get to the actual point of the contact.
More hyperbole.
"all these stories" from '67"?
Try one.
Yes, he certainly did.
He should have waited until there was an actual proposition. Toe tapping ain't enough.
“If a guy doesn`t have a kid at that age, either he has the self control of a steel wall or has some issues whether they be psychological, physical or sexual.”
You seem to assume that his are psychological or sexual. Perhaps he does have physical issues which he has not chosen to share with you. Or perhaps he and his wife together were not able to conceive. It happens. One shouldn’t assume homosexuality based upon the presence of adoptive children and no biological children.
I listened to the audio. He did a very job defending his actions and the cop got annoyed and I thought badgered him and tried to get him to change his story.
I still think he’s guilty (mostly because this isn’t the first time), but just listening to the tape, it’s hard to convict this guy and it could be the cop trying to defend his own actions.
“DK: Have you been successful in these bathrooms here before?
LC: I go to that bathroom regularly”
We always see “caption this picture” here. Is this the first time it is “Answer this question”.
1. LC: Well..yes. I am frequently successful in these bathrooms. Only once I can remember, I came to shlt but only farted!
Sorry, I had to.
Yeah, I can't imagine anything someone expecting to get some action might be doing with the right hand.
My personal life is another matter entirely. LOL
A Senator for 26 years? says he was doing something right, doesn’t it?
Methinks there is more to this than we, or the police, know. My hunch is, it goes way back, maybe even started with something that happened in College.
Whatever, the homo. lobby has had him in their sights for years. Hmm. Maybe the cop is one, or maybe he was told he was there, and he wanted to make a celebrity bust?
The cop was on that john for, at least, thirteen minutes, by his own account.
Time will tell, right?
In that time, was it reasonable to believe he could walk into the restroom, pick a stall at random (waiting for the first person to exit), and successfully hook-up with the guy on the right side to get a “quickie” in that time?
Conversely, did the officer do something to make himself appear available?
Exactly.
“Time will tell, right?”
Craig’s a goner. If he choses to fight this plea, he will have to do it as a private citizen. If he is able to win it, he can always re-enter the race for his old senate seat, although I don’t think he would win.
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