Caught on Tape -- RECORDING of Sen Craigs - BATHROOM BUST.

http://www.kcci.com/video/14015329/index.html ^ | TODAY | KCCI

[davidosborne]

Actually if I were in that situation.. my wife, children, relatives, and community would be the FIRST ones to believe me when I say that it was mistake in judgement on the officer’s part..

[jude24]

How could a cop justify an arrest based on such things? I assume they’d have to have an entire body of research on that behavior to prove that it is the common signal used to solicit sex in public.

The buzzword is "probable cause based upon [the officer's] knowledge and experience."

[palmer]

You are fortunate. I'm single and not sure if my family would believe me. I can appreciate Ramsbotham's point, the police have enormous power at that point. If it were a sting against Craig himself (which I see as very unlikely) his negotiating words used with the officer might make some sense especially if the part we didn't get to hear made it clear what the deal was to Craig. But that scenario is ridiculously unlikely.

In my own case, my boss would probably be sympathetic and give me plenty of time to look for another job. In the case of a Senator, there are too many bosses and too much nefarious media influence on those bosses.

[Revelation 911]

fair enough

[Golden Eagle]

Thanks Dave and God Bless you for what you’re doing in Iraq.

He’s already pled guilty and obviously was guilty for the harrassing behavior he was charged with. My understanding is the actual sexual charges were dropped which was again the proper verdict. Assumptions the harrassing beavior could have led to sex had the partner not been a police officer are being informally tried in the court of public opinion, where Craig hasn’t pled guilty but is rightfully having a hard time getting his claims of innocence to hold up under scrutiny.

[ClaireSolt]

The people who wrote the Bill of Rights did so to protect us from police officers who would falsely accuse us and then say we must be guilty if we didn't act like sheeple. The scariest experience of my life was to be confronted by one of Bill Clinton's hundred thousand new cops who added two and two and got six. They are dumb, but they have guns. Here they are illiterate and can't even write a police report.

Like the cop in this case they lie. Now that this story is all over, take note of how he claims he doesn't tell the press. Sensible people don't regard cops as America's finest. They know to stay as far away from them as possible. The most understanding I can be is to say that they spend all of their time with crooks and can't recognize a law abiding person. This cop keeps telling Craig that his version is right because of his experience with others.

[Mr Ramsbotham]

But unless there is some evidence that the police were beyond their bounds in patrolling the restroom, I don't accept that the officers actions were illegitimate in any way.

I agree they wouldn't necessarily be illegitimate, but the potential for abuse would always exist.

[Caramelgal]

OFFICER: All right. I know I can bring you to jail, but that's not my goal here, okay? (inaudible)
CRAIG: Don't do that. You. You.
OFFICER: I'm not going to bring you to jail.
CRAIG: You solicited me.

I think that was a big mistake. Craig tried to turn it around and accuse the cop of solicitation. I imagine the cop didn’t like that very much and that might have made the cop a bit hostile in the interview and given that exchange, I think the cop showed great restraint.

OFFICER: Have you been “successful” in these bathrooms here before?
CRAIG: I go to that bathroom regularly.
OFFICER: I mean for any type of other activities.
CRAIG: No. Absolutely not. I don't “see” activity in bathrooms.

Now that was a funny exchange. Did the Senator say “see” or “seek” because there is a way different connotation depending on which word he really used.

OFFICER: Well, you're not being truthful with me, I'm kinda disappointed in you Senator. I'm real disappointed in your right now. Okay, I'm not, just so you know, just like everybody, I, I, I, treat with dignity. I try to pull them away from the situation…I just, I just. I guess, I guess I'm gonna say I'm just disappointed in you sir. I'm just really am. I expect this from the guy that we get out of the hood. I mean people vote for you… Embarrassing, embarrassing. No wonder why we're going down the tubes….

He sure said a mouthful - ;),

Reality Check:

“Hooking up” for sex, heterosexual or homosexual, is not a crime nor should it be a crime. Go to any bar or nightclub on a Friday or Saturday night and you will observe a lot of subtle and some not so subtle body language and signals between people (many of them hetero) “seeking” to “go home” with somebody.

It is however criminal to solicit sex for money (there’s no proof of that here) and it is a crime to have sex in public places (but no actual sex acts occurred here either). How many hetero couples, even married couples have joined the “Mile High Club”. Personally I don’t find a public toilet stall particularly “romantic” – a private hot tub or shower?....never mind, I digress.

Since there was no actual sex act or an offer of an exchange of money for sex, I think the cop should have given the Senator a “stern” warning and a “slap” on the wrist. Even if Craig was cruising, I don’t think his actions warranted an arrest. Do I think Craig is a sleaze and a hypocrite? Yea!

The cop seemed to be very aware that Craig was a Senator. Did that mean the cop had some agenda? Was it entrapment? It’s not in the transcript but I read and heard from various sources that as soon as the cop confronted Craig, he (Craig) handed the cop his Senatorial business card as a “Don’t You Know Who I Am?” and a “Get Out of Jail Free Card”. If true, I think the cop might have let him go with a warning had the Senator not done that, but if Craig tried to invoke some sort of Senatorial Privilege he deserved to be arrested.

Bottom line is that once Craig was read his rights, he should have asked for a lawyer and he should have shut up. Craig’s whiney and desperate attempt at refuting what happened and arguing with the cop and then pleading guilty, doesn’t help his cause one bit.

I have more respect for a person who is Gay and doesn’t try to hide it, than I do for a man who leads a “secret” life, deceiving his wife and family and constituents.

[palmer]

How many hetero couples, even married couples have joined the “Mile High Club”. Personally I don’t find a public toilet stall particularly “romantic”

I'm not sure romantic is the right word. If the flight marshals run out of terrorists to go after and start patrolling airplane lavatories looking for anonymous hookups, then your analogy might have some solidity. But barring any major misconduct on the part of the police or an extremely elaborate conspiracy to bring down a Senator (which I think is very unlikely), I think Craig went to that bathroom to perpetuate a disgusting, and illegal, and unfortunate tradition.

Now if he had just legalized gay marriage, all this wouldn't have needed to happen. /s

[TheSpottedOwl]

Did Craig plead “guilty” or “no contest”? I heard the tape several times yesterday evening, and also the commentary regarding the tape.

I have a problem with the browbeating Sen. Craig got from the police officers, ending with the “suggestion that if the senator would just plead guilty, all he’d get is a fine, and that would be it”.

Many people have crumbled under the psycological strain of trying to explain their innocence to a cop that’s just doing his/her job.

I don’t know. Something smells a little fishy here.

[TheSpottedOwl]

If he deliberately reached under the stall, then yes it could be construed as cruising. Construed, not an in your face invitation.

[Jeff Head]

I listened to the recording yesterday on the radio. I have to say, Craig was evasive and obscure in many of his answers. It was just not credible to me. He sounded like a lawyer trying to get away from admitting exact, legal guilt, instead of, with rightous indignation, denying directly most of the charges. Also...who picks up old nasty toilet paper on the floor of a public restroom? That was incredible that he would say that was his excuse for his hand appearing under the stall.

Anyhow, as a log time resident of Idaho...and having corresponded with Craig's office many times...I must say that at this point, his resignation is best and what I have advocated since this came out.

This will give our conservative Governor a chance to appoint a conservative in Craig's place until the next election.

Craig had already lost a lot of support (including my own) over his stance on immigration and other issues. Many here were going to get behind another conservtive candidate in the primaries in the hopes of ousting him anyway and now the governor can short circuit all of that and make our primary a non-issue by placing that candidate in the positition now, which will ensure he stays there through the election in this very conservative state.

Though is is a shame and a disgraceful end to an otherwise fairly conservative career for the Senator (at leat up until the last four years), and although it has to be very hard and heartbreaking for his family...still, him resigning will be far better than the media circus that would continue and the investigations that would be ceaseless if he tried to hang on.

So, in the end, all in all, given the circumstances...this is by far the best thing.

[AuntB]

Yesterday they played Craigs statements over and over. Here’s
what doesn’t make sense to me. His excuse for all the hand gestures, etc. was that he was picking up a piece of toilet tissue off the floor.

WHY? Who picks up toilet paper from the floor of a public restroom? No one, unless they’re nuts.

[pissant]

Guilty 100%

[Sue Perkick]

If YOU are the one who dropped the paper you pick it up. Unless you’re a total pig. And there are plenty of those using public restrooms.

[AuntB]

How many men do you know that pick up anything after themselves? Craig didn’t say he dropped it,he said he was picking it up. I say BS.

[Sue Perkick]

Oh it’s BS alright. And yes I’ve known quite a few men who do pick up after themselves.

[archy]

One thing that isn’t clear to me is was is there an allegation of soliciting prostitution here?

Of if it was an attempted drop of espionage material.

[archy]

It was a case of the officers word against his. If he had gone to trial he could well have been convicted and have a sex crime on his record. What defense can a person offer up? The judge - and many juries - will most likely take the officers word as gospel.

I'd want to know a whole lot more about the particular officer and his background.

Do you have any idea how bad a cop has to screw up to get put on the airport restroom fruit patrol? I know one state cop, in his state's top 5 for writing speeding tickets, the happiest little highway cruiser in the world in his state-issued unmarked Mustang, until he gave his state's Secretary of State's wife a ticket for running 90. Within the week he was back in a blue-and-white marked cruiser, with the new duty of counting the doors on the highway rest area toilets to make sure the stall doors hadn't been stolen.

[archy]

If I were a regular person using that restroom and I heard clear evidence of gay behavior on more than one occasion, I would report it and expect that the police would do something about it.

I've been both a cop and an airport employee. Based on my experience, I'd expect that a cop who'd been put on toilet patrol would either be looking for a wealthy fruit who could make a healthy payoff to make it all go away, or a local with enough clout to convince his bosses that this dutiful officer's talents could be more effectively utilized elsewhere.