Candidates say Scripture justifies war

Spartanburg Herald-Journal ^ | September 2, 2007 | Jason Spencer

[BipolarBob]

Yes it is like SUPER ULTIMATE politically incorrect.

Tying ones world views (war or anything) to Christianity may be considered a super bad thing but that is the only way to stay true to ones religion or values. Being politically correct, in other words, is being a hypocritical lying crapweasel who will do anything to get elected without regard to principles or morality.

[AmericaUnited]

Agree 100%. My point was that to oppose a just war or also do nothing is wrong.

There is a very instructive story in Judges 19+20. An evil deed was committed, and those that did nothing (”Hey, we can’t be bothered”) were then killed, after the bad guys and those that gave them shelter were killed.

[ScubieNuc]

There is a very instructive story in Judges 19+20.

Thanks for the tip. I'll read that today.

Sincerely

[ScubieNuc]

WOW!

What an amazing story, and yet scary at the same time.

First you have a Levite who is threatened By people from the tribe of Benjamin. Next, you have this man "sacrifice" his concubine for his own safety. Then you have his callous nature toward her body to awaken Israel to the problem in it's own midst. The tribe of Benjamin rejects correction and gears up to defend it's own tribes lawlessness.

Now Israel (minus Benjamin of course) assembles and army of 400,000 to fight a civil war and reestablish justice and unity. In the first to battles, Israel loses 22,000 and 18,000 men. In the third battle Benjamin loses 25,000 men and is defeated as a force that protects evil.

The following is part of a commentary I read about this event and I feel that it could be applied to America today.

God used this to humble the whole nation. They had to understand that the horror of the crime at Gibeah was not merely the result of the sin of one group of men, or one city, or even one tribe. The whole nation had to be humbled because they first thought that the sin problem was only in Benjamin. Israel had to see that that nation as a whole had a sin problem.

After the first failure, Israel was sorry and wept. But it was only after the second failure that they put their repentance into action by fasting and made a sacrifice for sins. Sorrow and weeping are not enough if they are not matched by real repentance and taking care of the sin problem through sacrifice - the sacrifice of the cross.

When I look at the sin that abounds in Hollywood or San Francisco, I'm thinking along the lines that Israel was thinking..."That's not my problem." From this story, you get the impression that God doesn't look at nations that way. Would America be willing to pay the cost that Israel paid to bring justice and decency back to America. I don't think America, as a whole even wants to return to a God honoring type of decency.

Scary and sad at the same time.

Sincerely

[AmericaUnited]

But the big part of the story that is relevant is the part where tribe that did’nt show up to help fight against the evildoers were punished big time also.

[AmericaUnited]

Read chapter 21. The tribe of Jabeshgilead did'nt bother to help fight against the evil and they were killed for it.

And the children of Israel said, Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up with the congregation unto the LORD? For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up to the LORD to Mizpeh, saying, He shall surely be put to death. ...
8 And they said, What one is there of the tribes of Israel that came not up to Mizpeh to the LORD? And, behold, there came none to the camp from Jabeshgilead to the assembly. 9 For the people were numbered, and, behold, there were none of the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead there. 10 And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children. 11 And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man.

[ScubieNuc]

Ahhh. That story is in Judges 21, not Judges 19 and 20.

The commentary I read about slaughtering the city was that was a bad decision based on a bad oath.

Who is there among all the tribes of Israel who did not come up with the assembly to the Lord? . . . He shall surely be put to death: Here again Israel did something that seemed right at the time, but was actually a horror. They decided to slaughter a whole city of Israel, a city that refused to join with Israel in the fight against Benjamin.

i. This is doing one bad thing to make up for another. Israel instead should have repented of their foolish oath made at Mizpah, and they should have agreed to give their daughters as wives to the men of the tribe of Benjamin, renouncing the foolish vow of Judges 21:1.

Sincerely

[DocRock]

I am from Muhlenberg County Kentucky, which is named after Gen. Peter Muhlenberg, seen here in this statue inside the U.S. Capitol!

Peter Muhlenberg Statue
U.S. Capitol

"In January of 1776, Muhlenberg sent word for his congregation to gather for his farewell sermon. Ascending his familiar pulpit, he preached from Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. The sermon glowed throughout with devoted patriotism as the man of God told his people of his own resolve to fight and, if need be, to die for his country. He closed his message with these words: "In the language of holy writ, there is a time for all things, a time to preach and a time to pray, but the time for me to preach has passed away." Then in a voice that re-echoed through the church like a trumpet blast, he exclaimed, "And there is also a time to fight, and that time has now come." After pronouncing the benediction, Muhlenberg threw off his clerical gown and stood before his people in full military uniform. Stepping down the aisle, he ordered the drums at the door to beat for new recruits. The whole village gathered at the church to learn what strange event had turned a quiet church meeting into a scene of bustle and excitement."

---

Christians should be interested in winning souls for Christ but also preserving our heritage and the political environment that many of our forefathers fought and died for so that our religious institutions could flourish.

[DocRock]

I am from Muhlenberg County Kentucky, which is named after Gen. Peter Muhlenberg, seen here in this statue inside the U.S. Capitol!

Peter Muhlenberg Statue
U.S. Capitol

"In January of 1776, Muhlenberg sent word for his congregation to gather for his farewell sermon. Ascending his familiar pulpit, he preached from Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. The sermon glowed throughout with devoted patriotism as the man of God told his people of his own resolve to fight and, if need be, to die for his country. He closed his message with these words: "In the language of holy writ, there is a time for all things, a time to preach and a time to pray, but the time for me to preach has passed away." Then in a voice that re-echoed through the church like a trumpet blast, he exclaimed, "And there is also a time to fight, and that time has now come." After pronouncing the benediction, Muhlenberg threw off his clerical gown and stood before his people in full military uniform. Stepping down the aisle, he ordered the drums at the door to beat for new recruits. The whole village gathered at the church to learn what strange event had turned a quiet church meeting into a scene of bustle and excitement."

---

Christians should be interested in winning souls for Christ but also preserving our heritage and the political environment that many of our forefathers fought and died for so that our religious institutions could flourish.

[DocRock]

my internet hiccuped, sorry for the double post

[Rosemont]

Evangelical Protestants are good people. That’s why the MSM despises them so much.

[AmericaUnited]

I have to disagree with the commentary. If a tribe did not want to help oppose evil, they should have been “eliminated”.

[ScubieNuc]

If a tribe did not want to help oppose evil, they should have been “eliminated”.

Well, on this, I'll have to disagree with you. Yes, I agree that not doing anything about evil is wrong. Yes, I agree that the tribe that didn't show up should have been chastised in some way. However, Israel backed themselves into a corner that God did not ordain (i.e. kill anyone who doesn't join up).

Jesus warns about making oaths in Matthew 5: 33-37

¶ Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

I can also see how Catholics may have used your understanding of Judges 21 to prosecute the Inquisition. If a person isn't taking a stand for the Church, then they are allowing evil to flourish. If they are not taking a stand against evil....kill them.

Sincerely

[joebuck]

"Why did God fire Saul and hire David? Because Saul, like George Bush, pussy footed around instead of killing all."

Even more to the point, why were the Jews forced to wander around in the wilderness for an extra 40 years? Because they were afraid to invade the land God gave them and exterminate every man, woman and child who were already there. Eventually Joshua decided to follow God's instructions and do just that.