Foes of IRS seek friends on campaign trail (Fair Tax backers stand out)

Charlotte Observer ^ | Aug. 31, 2007 | JIM MORRILL

[webboy45]

The prebate is there to keep politicians from exempting food from the tax. The idea is to keep the tax pure with no exemptions. I believe, however, that in order for it to pass at least 3 exemptions would have to be added; exemptions for: primary residence, medical expenses and religions.

A new car is actually quite doable. With about 25% more takehome pay (i.e. FICA, medicare & income taxes) a person making $50,000 should be able to save the tax amount on a new car in less than a year. However, a new house with say $35,000 tax paid up front would simply be out of the question for the average person.

An exemption for medical expenses is a no-brainer, since nobody wants the government to profit from somebody’s misfortune.

And, the religious exemption is a requirement to keep a clean separation between church and state.

[robertpaulsen]

"If the basics are such a special class, why should we pay for them at all?"

There you go, comrade. Phase II. Increase the prebate to not only cover the tax on basics but the basics themselves. Simply change it to, "Nobody, not even Bill Gates, should have to pay taxes on for the basics of life".

Given that we'll eventually see the Fair Tax equal to the cost of the good itself, Phase II won't really cost that much more.

[Man50D]

We're going to turn the tax system of this country on its head, a tax system that's been in place almost 100 We're going to turn the tax system of this country on its head, a tax system that's been in place almost 100 years and -- years and -- oh, by the way -- since we're doing that we've decided that now is a good time to come up with the philosophy that "nobody, not even Bill Gates, should have to pay taxes on the basics of life"?WHAT? Why now all of a sudden?

The Sixteenth Amendment (which gave the American people the affliction of confiscatory income taxes) was never supposed to have passed. In April 1909, Senator Joseph W. Bailey, a conservative Democrat from Texas who was also opposed to income taxes, decided to embarrass the Republicans by forcing them to openly oppose an income tax bill similar to those which had been introduced in the past. Funny thing was Teddy Roosevelt and many other Republicans supported the proposed 16th Amendment as did President Taft. The income tax is based on a farce that the American people never endorsed. The Fair Tax will be enacted because it will be based on the reality of a strong grassroots effort and not by politicians trying to play political games.

"From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs"? Gosh, that sounds so fair.

The Fair Tax dovetails into that philosophy by allowing people to decide how much they are taxed based on how much they choose to purchase. The income tax eliminated that choice long ago.

[robertpaulsen]

"With about 25% more takehome pay (i.e. FICA, medicare & income taxes) a person making $50,000 should be able to save the tax amount on a new car in less than a year"

That leaves the employer with about 9% to reduce his prices -- if he choses to do so. Add the Fair tax, and prices rise 18% for domestic goods. 30% for imports.

Assuming your purchases are 50-50, that is a 24% average price increase.

The exemptions you list make sense, and they may be necessary to get the votes to pass this abortion. But the rate can't stay at 23%. Health care alone represents 16% of GDP.

[webboy45]

Would the states implement the FairTax. I think so. The fed. govt. would pay the states to do the implementation. And it’s likely that most states would change their taxes to mirror the FairTax. That would make the auditing much simpler.

[lucysmom]

The Fair Tax dovetails into that philosophy by allowing people to decide how much they are taxed based on how much they choose to purchase.

In that spirit, I predict the rich (those people the FairTaxers both hate and love - ie don't punish 'em because they're rich, and our tax nails 'em because they spend more) will be more than happy to do business in the US and choose to live elsewhere.

[Man50D]

If foreign producers have a 17% competitive advantage, it seems to me that that the consumer benefits.

Americans do not benefit when American products cost more than foreign products. American companies lose business to foreign companies. The tresult is American businesses must either layoff employees to cut costs, go out of business or relocate to a foreign country. Any way you look at Americans income and consequent purchasing power will be reduced. That is exactly what has been happening for many years.

Abolishing corporate taxes will encourage those companies to return to the U.S. thereby creating more jobs for Americans, creating more income and spending. Consumers will benefit and the U.S. economy will grow.

You want to level the playing field by raising one side not lowering the other.

I couldn't care less how the foreign countries are adversely effected. I'm more concerned with our country. apparently you are as concerned about the former as you are the latter.

And here you told me the Fair Tax is simple -- simpler than a flat tax. You expect me to believe interest rates will decline because all the domestic banks will all decide to pass on all the savings they all get.

You can choose to ignore the basic principle of competition but that doesn't change the fact it has been, is and always will be integral part of our free market system. The airline industry is a prefect of example of one business cutting its price forcing competitotrs to do the same or lose business.

Even hear the business phrase, "Leaving money on the table"? Do you know what that means?

Putting more money in people's wallets will enable companies to have more money on the table.

[robertpaulsen]

"The income tax is based on a farce that the American people never endorsed."

It was based on a lie. The American people were told that only the wealthiest 1% would ever pay. Kinda like, "23% is revenue neutral".

[Man50D]

What if the states refuse to collect the Fair Tax? Or demand a higher fee?

I have a better question. Why don't you try reading the bill or visiting Americans For fair Taxation website instead of asking these basic questions? Since your too lazy or refuse to accept facts I'll post some of the answer.

Fair Tax FAQ #25. To quote:

"A state can choose not to collect the federal sales tax, and either outsource the collection to another state, or opt to have the federal government collect it directly."

[robertpaulsen]

"Americans do not benefit when American products cost more than foreign products."

Our products cost more for reasons other than simply taxes. OSHA requirements, unions, the FDA, EPA, and our litigation-happy culture all add to the cost of domestically produced products and the Fair Tax doesn't affect them one iota.

"The tresult is American businesses must either layoff employees to cut costs, go out of business or relocate to a foreign country."

Or produce products that justify the cost of American labor and all the rest.

[Neu Pragmatist]

Simply, why exactly are you against the Fair Tax ?
Do you favor another type of tax system , the current tax system , or do you think we will pay more under the Fair Tax ?

[robertpaulsen]

"Simply, why exactly are you against the Fair Tax ?"

Other than the fact that it will destroy the economy? That 23% isn't even close to revenue neutral? That people will cheat in droves? And that it does nothing to address the real problem -- out of control government spending?

Other than that, I can't think of one good reason.

"Do you favor another type of tax system"

If I were King? Cut spending to the point where government could be financed by tariffs and excise taxes. That way this country was funded for 150 years.

[PhilCollins]

When the income tax was started, the Americans were told that the highest rate would be 4%. Now, the highest rate is 36%, nine times the original rate, because the federal government spends about nine times what they should spend.

I support Governor Huckabee because he’s pro-fairtax, anti-illegal alien, pro-life, and pro-gun rights.

[Jacquerie]

The prebate is political sop to the socialists to take care of necessities up to the so-called poverty level. You should take the time to read the book before you show your ignorance.

[xcamel]

You can’t even make one single post without a personal attack, can you?

[xcamel]

go back and read the links at post #3

[Jacquerie]

I regularly ask people to read the FT book.

Sometimes I ask people why the FT should not replace the current immoral system. I have never received a response as to why the FT is less bad than the income tax. You have had several opportunities to answer.

Most anti-FT posters remind me of militant atheists who screech blindly against Christianity without ever having learned or even read the bible.

[Jacquerie]

Why would anyone think that the wealthy who would stash money, and business that would locate at an offshore address to avoid US taxes, wouldn't move themselves offshore to avoid taxes?

Wealthy do not stash, they or their parents got wealthy by investing. Businesses go offshore to avoid high US corporate income taxes. Under the FT, taxes on income, corporations, capital gains, social security, medicare, self employment and estates disappear.

Without the assorted taxes on capital and income, investment will flow in volumes unimaginable even in the 19th century. Business will fire most of their corporate attorneys whose only job was to figure out ways around the current byzantine system. The business of business will once again be to make money and not how to avoid taxes.

[xcamel]

You still havent read the links in post #3, have you.

[xcamel]

How exactly do you plan to guarantee the same thing won’t happen with **any** tax plan?

“Pres Huckabee” 4 years later...

FT 45% - spending out of control..
5 million more illegals - exempt from the NRST
National photo/skin chip firearm & owner ID system