Posted on 09/06/2007 7:18:13 AM PDT by Froufrou
As a follow up - I agree with the limitation of the law.
Actually, even manslaughter requires intent, just not SPECIFIC intent (i.e. intent to kill). Intent to do the reckless or grossly negligent act (leading to death) does need to be proved, though.
The reason the mom or dad weren’t aware that their toddler was baking in the car for 8 hours is because mom & dad have given their responsibility to care for the child over to some babysitter. That’s my problem with the whole situation— as a society, we’ve decided that people other than parents do just as good a job at raising our own kids and CLEARLY that isn’t the case, no matter how many different ways people try to justify it.
I truly don’t even blame the mother too much (though her habitual problem with this is concerning— if nothing else, you think being repeatedly “caught” doing it would make her worried about being caught again). She, like most of the rest of us, has been conditioned to think that it’s okay to leave her kids all day with someone else. But I think locking up the mother for much jail time would probably just compound the family’s problems— but is it too much to ask that she not work with kids any more?
Great point - it would compound the problems.
So she's the victim here. Just shows how self=centered she is, talking about herself when her child just baked to death. Maybe that's why she was so focused on the doughnuts, that would make her look and feel so good, bringing doughnuts for everyone.
And I just found out today that the carseat was on the driver's side. The car seat that she walked by at least three times.
No, not a joke. Since when it is a crime or an act of negligence to leave a toddler or baby in a car for 2 minutes? That isn’t to say that there might not be circumstances when it would not be prudent to do this but that is up to the parent to decide.
We have had three occasions in the past year where toddlers were in cars that were hijacked. All over the news for hours.
The moms were all over the news crying, “I just left the baby in the car for a minute......”
If a parent will not take a toddler with them, leave the child at home.
I don’t buy the, “ hectic pace of modern life “ crap. Guilty.
I have a difficult time comprehending five times!
Wrong.
dinoparty:
Why do I get the sense that... you are/were in the habit of leaving a child locked in a car while running errands?
Why does your faith only allow you forgive/ignore the actions of this killer of her own daughter yet crucify posters showing righteous indignation of her repeated thoughtless actions?
I think your liberal leanings of not holding people responsible for their actions would be better appreciated over at DU.
netmilsmom:
Do you know if the coroner is doing a toxicology work up on this baby?
As others have posted, the five times going out to the car is just too suspicious. It’s almost as if she was checking to see if the baby was dead yet. Being drugged would answer the question as to why no one would notice a baby crying in the car.
She parked further away from the school at first (so no one would notice?) and then moved the car closer. Is this a pattern or does she usually park as close as she could get? Did the DA pull previous days tapes of the lot before deciding not to charge her? If he didn’t, he should be charged with dereliction of duty.
I see people on this thread who see nothing wrong with leaving a child in a car “for five minutes”. I am amazed that this thinking. Perhaps you’re right, they are projecting because they have done this in the past.
It’s wrong, no matter what.
I also see those who are fighting for forgiving a mistake when this woman was warned not to do this a number of times. I know people who are “not wasted” and get behind the wheel of a car. Even without warning, this is wrong. And a proper comparison considering that it puts people’s lives in danger for an individual’s convenience.
>>netmilsmom:
Do you know if the coroner is doing a toxicology work up on this baby?<<
Wow. I wondered why this baby was not making sounds in the car this early in the morning.
I finally did get to see the video on the news...one clip of her at the school that morning, and one of her interrogation.
When I first read about the 5 trips to the car I thought they occured throughout the workday and that at one point she had gone out and moved the car.
From the video I see I was wrong. The 5 trips occurred when she was unloading the doughnut from the back of her SUV.
She couldn’t see her child’s head from the back, and it didn’t appear she turned and looked when she jumped in to park her car.
Apparently the child was asleep.
I can’t tell if she was lying or not during questioning.
If they aren’t going to prosecute her, they should drop the charges against the poor black couple who were prosecuted for a similar incident.
“the way the baby in this situation died is horrific to consider. That the mom had so many opportunities to realize her mistake and didn’t is aggravating and frightening. But the prosecutor’s choice to not press charges is reasonable and, if we are to trust his judgement at all, probably merciful in a time when grief is unimaginable.”
After watching the videos I’m incline to agree with you except that others were prosecuted for similar circumstances.
If they aren’t going to prosecute this woman, they should be equally merciful with other parents and drop charges against them.
“As others have posted, the five times going out to the car is just too suspicious. It’s almost as if she was checking to see if the baby was dead yet. Being drugged would answer the question as to why no one would notice a baby crying in the car.
She parked further away from the school at first (so no one would notice?) and then moved the car closer. Is this a pattern or does she usually park as close as she could get? Did the DA pull previous days tapes of the lot before deciding not to charge her? If he didn’t, he should be charged with dereliction of duty.”
I thought this too, but the video shows this isn’t how it happened.
The “5 trips” to the car occurred when she first arrived, open the back up and unloaded the doughnuts. She made a few trips back and forth and then parked the car.
“The woman was given a warning about leaving her baby in the car.
She continued to leave her baby in the car. This is not the first time.”
I think you are mixing 2 issues into one.
The first issue...this woman has left her child in the car in the past, apprantly for a few minutes or up to 15 minutes.
In these episodes she knew her child was in there and did return after some period of time.
Others found this disturbing, and she was warned.
second issue...this particular morning was different.
She forgot the child was there.
It was not (allegedly) a case of “Oh -she can sit there for 15 minutes and will be all right”
She totally forgot she was there at all.
This is not a defense - I’m just pointing out the difference in her state of mind that morning as opposed to the other episodes.
Do you have a reference to law? You may be right, but do you have support for your position? (I thought there was a difference in the law between non-specific intent, which still needs to be proven, and NO intent.) Your position seems counter-intuitive to me; how can you prosecute somebody for doing something reckless that leaves a person dead, unless the person intentionally did the reckless act? For instance, if someone does something reckless while sleepwalking and it leads to a death, can that be prosecuted?
Let’s take Reckless Driving as it is defined in my state. It is defined as Willfull and wanton disregard...This takes a certain amount of affirmative action by the actor. In this case, you’d be right. The state proves the actor’s state of mind(willfull and wanton disregard...)by his actions, say, driving 100 mph in a 25 mph zone.
Here’s a different example that is in the vehicular homicide statute. It has Reckless driving, and DUI, and what is called disregard for the safety of others, or DSO. DSO has no intent by the actor. It is basically, a series of events, none of them reckless, that add up to causing a vehicluar homicide. It is the hardest one to get a conviction on. An example might be that you are sleepy and keep nodding off, waking up, nodding off.
An example of no intent, is the hunting accident. A hunter thinks he sees a deer. He’s sure of it. Bang, he drops another hunter. If the dead hunter is wearing a brown coat and antlers, the shooter is exonerated. Otherwise, he’s in big trouble regardless of his intent. The driver in the DSO scenario had no intention of falling asleep, either.
Revised Code of Washington (RCW)46.61.500 is Reckless Driving.
RCW 46.61.500 is Vehicular Homicide.
RCW 9A has First degree manslaughter which is what you are talking about and they have 2nd degree manslaughter where you get into the trickier part of proving an actor’s behavior, even though not blatantly reckless, added up to criminal negligence, which is another indistinct legal term. Hunter shooting another by accident.
Brenda Nesselroad-Slaby, 40, is assistant principal at Glen Este Middle School, about 20 miles east of Cincinnati. Authorities said she left her 2-year-old daughter, Cecilia, strapped into a car seat for about eight hours on Aug. 23 while she was at work at the school.
Sounds to me like she didn't have any daycare for her child. So she left the child in the car all day while she went to work. Did the authorities even bother to ask her where the child SHOULD have been while she was at work? Was the girl supposed to be at daycare, or with a nanny, or where? That's why this looks to be a deliberate act of negligence leading to the child's death. It doesn't look like an "accident" to me, not in the sense that the mother didn't know where her child was. The girl was strapped into a car in 100 degree weather.
Brenda Nesselroad-Slaby, 40, is assistant principal at Glen Este Middle School, about 20 miles east of Cincinnati. Authorities said she left her 2-year-old daughter, Cecilia, strapped into a car seat for about eight hours on Aug. 23 while she was at work at the school.
Sounds to me like she didn't have any daycare for her child. So she left the child in the car all day while she went to work. Did the authorities even bother to ask her where the child SHOULD have been while she was at work? Was the girl supposed to be at daycare, or with a nanny, or where? That's why this looks to be a deliberate act of negligence leading to the child's death. It doesn't look like an "accident" to me, not in the sense that the mother didn't know where her child was. The girl was strapped into a car in 100 degree weather.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.