Posted on 09/07/2007 5:00:21 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
Saudi-UK’s US$8bn fighter aircraft deal close to completion
by Christina Corbett on Thursday, 06 September 2007
The Saudi Arabian defence force is on course to become one of the world's top three military powers with the signing of the controversial US$8bn Typhoon fighter aircraft deal this week, Arabian Business can reveal.
The document agreed upon by both the British and Saudi governments that details the terms of the supply of the aircraft, and initial support, was signed last week by British defence secretary Des Browne. Upon its immediate return to Saudi Arabia, the document will be signed by the Kingdom's defence minister, HRH Crown Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz. An official announcement is expected later this week.
"Following some serious camel trading we are now very close to having the right signatures on the Typhoon contract," said a source close to the deal. The agreement forms part of the Saudi-British Defence Cooperation Project (SBDCP), previously known as Al Yamamah.
In addition to the supply of Typhoon aircraft the SBDCP also covers the upgrading of Saudi Arabia's Tornado aircraft and the provision of advanced weapons systems. This will make the Saudi defence force's capability equal to that of the British armed forces in terms of hardware and equipment, and potentially "second only to that of the US," according to our source. He added that the development marks "a coup for Saudi Arabia" and is a "massive milestone" in the development of Saudi's armed forces. Much of the impetus behind Saudi Arabia's acquisition of new military equipment is accredited to the aggressive stance adopted by neighbouring Iran.
The ‘understanding document' between the British and Saudi Arabian governments underpinning the original Al Yamamah deal (‘dove' in English) was signed nearly two years ago in late 2005, however the project has been beset by serious problems since. Negative publicity in the British media has been rife. Much of this has centered on corruption allegations in which members of the Saudi Royal family were implicated.
The deal has been further complicated by the strain of commercial demands made by the Saudi government. According to our source it was "demanding a huge amount for their money". It has also asked that British Airways resume flights to Riyadh. These were terminated for business reasons in March 2005.
24 February 2006 - Eurofighter Typhoon IPA3 carrying 4 x Paveway II, 4 x AMRAAM air-to-air missiles, 2 x IRIS-T air-to-air missiles, and 3 x 1,000l external fuel tanks, as part of Heavy Loads flight trials from EADS’ Manching Facility
Source: Eurofighter GmbH
& the Saudis also plan to buy advanced destroyers from the UK as well...
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article2402913.ece
September 7, 2007
BAE poised to clinch £20bn Saudi Eurofighter deal
David Robertson, Business Correspondent
BAE Systems will clinch a £20 billion deal to supply 72 Eurofighter Typhoon jets to Saudi Arabia next week.
It is understood that the British Government sent the Typhoon contract to King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz two days ago. The King is expected to sign the contract next week, sealing one of the largest export orders ever won by the UK.
BAE led the FTSE 100 risers this morning as shares jumped by 4 per cent to 466.25p.
Completion of the deal will be an enormous relief to BAE, Europe’s largest defence company, as negotiations have dragged on for a year and were nearly derailed by a Serious Fraud Office (SFO) investigation into the company’s dealings with Saudi officials.
Background
The Typhoon deal will be called al-Salam, meaning “peace”, and defence analysts said that it would be vital to building closer military links with Saudi Arabia.
Last year the Saudis threatened to drop the deal as the SFO investigated allegations of corruption in an earlier contract for Tornado jets. The Saudis also gave warning that they would suspend all security and terrorism cooperation if the SFO attempted to access Swiss bank accounts of Saudi royalty.
The SFO investigation was halted by the British Government and senior ministers are understood to have travelled to Saudi Arabia this year to ensure the deal was completed.
Al-Salam is expected to break down into an initial £5 billion contract to supply the fighters, a further £5 billion to be spent on munitions and armament systems, and the remaining £10 billion to come from through-life maintenance of the jets.
BAE is building a large operation in Saudi Arabia in preparation for Typhoon deliveries and now employs 4,600 people there. The first 24 Typhoons are likely to be built at BAE’s factory in Warton, Lancashire, and the remaining jets will be assembled in Saudi Arabia.
The completion of the contract negotiations indicates that the Saudis have put aside their concern over the SFO investigation. However, they are not expected to make a formal announcement of al-Salam’s completion, partly out of concern that past corruption allegations will resurface.
A plan to have King Abdullah sign the contract in London during his state visit in October has been dropped.
The renewed cooperation between the UK and Saudi Arabia could lead to other big contract wins for BAE.
It is understood that Saudi officials have been invited on board Daring, the first of six new destroyers being built by BAE for the Royal Navy. The Saudis will join the warship for sea trials, which are currently taking place off the north coast of Scotland. They are thought to want to buy at least two of the £600 million vessels.
BAE’s links with Saudi Arabia go back to 1966, when the UK sold Lightning aircraft to the kingdom. In 1984 Britain signed the landmark al-Yamamah deal to supply Tornado jets and other military equipment.
Al-Yamamah remains the largest export order won by the UK and has been worth more than £43 billion to BAE. Its successor, al-Salam, is expected to last at least 20 years as BAE maintains and upgrades the Typhoons. The British Government had hoped to finalise the Typhoon deal in June but the Saudis pushed back completion to ensure that Gordon Brown endorsed it as the new Prime Minister.
A spokeswoman for BAE said: “This is a government-to-government negotiation and we are unable to make any comment on it.”
The Ministry of Defence made its usual statement in relation to the Typhoon deal, saying negotiations were continuing.
The Eurofighter is one of the most advanced fighter jets in the world and is built by a consortium of European defence companies It is a joint venture between the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain and was first proposed in 1985.
Pretty good aircraft. BTW, how is the Saudi airforce (pilot wise not equipmentwise). I know they have some of the best equipment in the region, but how is the training and support? Thanks.
Stealthy sucker, ain’t it?
They do receive the best training facilities as well as placements in European & US pilot schools.Whether they make use of it is another question.But I wouldn’t underestimate them by any yardstick.
They did have ‘White’ pilots doing the job for them till a decade or so ago-in addition to having lots of Pakistani personnel.
Generally a bunch of princes that can't be bothered with the details.
Still has a smaller radar signature than most existing aircraft.
Really? Doesn't look like they put any effort at all into stealth. Must have radar absorbing paint or something. I once got to test and tune some wave guide used on the F-15 and F-16 "Friend or Foe" system when I worked as a contractor for Electromagnetic Sciences. The waveguide was attached to belly plates that had the radar absorbing paint on them. Pretty interesting stuff.....and I had to have fairly high security clearance to be in the room with it.....
Smaller than an Airbus A380 or a Boeing 747, I'll grant you...
The whole thing is Mao-Mao Primitivism by Saudi against the other Mao-Mao Primitives. Think inner city bling, spinners, twisted Jerry Lewis hand signs.
as well as the Russian Mig/Sukhoi & American ‘teen’ series jets.
And I see that trust in granting you clearance was misplaced.
Do you think that post should be pulled?
Why is that? What I worked on 15 years ago was 20 year old technology at the time. I didn't reveal any specifics, only that it was an interesting material. I also didn't divulge anything that I know about the "F or F" system (and I know a great deal about it). Your critisizm is misplaced. I've done or said absolutely nothing to violate any security clearance protocol. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
I guess it can shoot at planes from a higher distance then other planes that would oppose it can shoot back - that means it will have air superiority.
It will also be able to transport a higher quantity of bombs then anything faster and is faster then anything else that carries more bombs.
So I guess it’s the best plane one can buy if multirole is wanted.
What parts of which aircraft are or are not coated with RAM, or for that matter how long ago the US used RAM or how extensively it was or is used, is what I was referring to.
There was a reason you had to be cleared to be “in the same room” as the RAM, and that was because the existence of RAM and it’s uses are still classified.
Thanks to the F-117, F-22, and F-35, the existence of RAM is now public knowledge, but where it’s used and why is not. Let’s try to keep it that way?
Thanks.
“Generally a bunch of princes that can’t be bothered with the details.”
Boy, is that ever the case. Back in the mid-80s, I had the experience of trying to teach a course in computer basics to a group of 9 of these characters at SRI in the Bay Area.
A less motivated, more arrogant bunch of jerks would be hard to find. It was all playtime for them. They learned nothing.
Stealthy? yeah ... I bet it has the RCS of a small planet.
The Eurofighter is not stealth, but when it is clean, it has a small RCS compared to fourth-generation fighters.
Smaller RCS, more power, and better electronics are always good things.
20 years ago I was working a US defense contractor doing work for the Saudis. I was not impressed with their officers at all. Perhaps things have changed, but I think their problems are inherent in their culture. They could not admit to mistakes or inadequacies -- it was always somebody else's fault
How about when it has all that crap hanging off of it? How many reflectors do you count in that picture?
Of course, if they really do manage to keep it low RCS in spite of all that, my hat's definitely off to the designers.
If you know a great deal about it, the first thing you would have learned is that it is universally referred to as “IFF.” There is a lot of public information about IFF systems. That was not what I was referring to.
Um, I used the term "Friend or Foe" specifically to not mention the exact system I worked on and because that is a layman's generalized term for several different systems built by several different vendors and used on a multitude of aircraft. In case you haven't noticed you still don't have a clue as to exactly what system I worked on or who the manufacturer was or specifically what I did and how I did it and I won't tell you. The only thing you know is that it involved tuning wave guide. Every RF system on an aircraft uses waveguide and that isn't classified. Notice how you still don't know specifically what I did, where I did it, or specifically what it was a part of, not to mention frequency of operation, power levels, tuning procedures, and test gear used? If you want to complain about classified information being made public, how about taking a look at the NY Times or Aviation Week.
What parts of which aircraft are or are not coated with RAM, or for that matter how long ago the US used RAM or how extensively it was or is used, is what I was referring to.
This isn't classified information at all. In fact, it is on display at the Air Force museum in Dayton. IOW, it's public knowledge and is on display for all to see. BTW, it doesn't take a whole lot of RF knowledge to know what reflects and what doesn't.
There was a reason you had to be cleared to be “in the same room” as the RAM, and that was because the existence of RAM and it’s uses are still classified.
Wrong. The reason I had to be cleared to be in the same room had to do with the part I was working on, the test procedure and test gear I was using and the other things being worked on in the room. It had very little to do with the paint. Again, notice how I didn't give any specifics about what I was actually doing? Not that you would understand it anyway.
Thanks to the F-117, F-22, and F-35, the existence of RAM is now public knowledge, but where it’s used and why is not. Let’s try to keep it that way?
Actually, it predates all of these aircraft, considerably.......as in decades......
I understand your concern, but it is misguided. I know full well the penalty for divulging the specifics of what I saw and worked on and for your information, based on what I've said here, I am nowhere near being in violation of any of the security clearances I've held.
Ted Striker: My orders came through. My squadron ships out tomorrow. We're bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri at 1800 hours. We're coming in from the north, below their radar.
Elaine Dickinson: When will you be back?
Ted Striker: I can't tell you that. It's classified.
That configuration in the picture is pretty heavy & it’s not exactly stealthy,but you can’t realistically expect the aircraft to fly everytime with a such payload.It was test to demonstrate(& show off) it’s maximum load.The Eurofighter has semi-recessed carriage for weapons like the AMRAAM/METEOR,which is better than having them stick out.
Sheesh, relax. It was my poor attempt at humor to lighten the conversation, ok?
I apologize.
It is only one button push from being rid of that ordnance. The JSF too will have a large RCS when carrying external ordnance.
Think about that for a bit ... from the defender's point of view.
Strike aircraft (loaded as shown) would be escorted by aircraft configured for air-air, if an air threat existed. If they were self-escorting, then the air environment would already be permissive. In that situation, if they had to engage in air-air, they would jettison their bombs.
A victory for the defenders? A temporary one of sorts, yes.
and yes, it's only a temporary victory ...
Yes, that's always a factor. Rollback is the only option.
Using both internal and external stores on the F-35 was a good idea.
Rollback is the only option.
HARM is also an option ... Two can play that game.
HARM is a primary element of rollback.
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