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Study: Growing Number of Employees Are Not Loyal
Inside Indiana Buisness ^ | 9/7/07 | Walker Information

Posted on 09/07/2007 12:34:26 PM PDT by qam1

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To: qam1

A lot of employers aren’t all that loyal themselves either these days.


101 posted on 09/07/2007 5:16:18 PM PDT by Sue Perkick (And I hope that what I’ve done here today doesn’t force you to have a negative opinion of me….)
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To: Califreak
Working like that is what earned me a ticket out of the toll central office equipment engineering group. I always had my work done, so a few of my co-workers complained that I didn't have enough work. My boss responded by taking offices from them and making them my responsibility. I was handed the 'really awful' offices. Same result. My work was complete, my desk was clear. The complaints resumed and another round of dumping problem offices ensued. Same result again. The new complaint was that I had all the offices and many people didn't have enough to do. It wasn't 'fair'. Frankly, many of those people were professional slugs. They worked as slowly as possible to give the impression that the work was difficult and time consuming. Demonstrating otherwise wasn't very popular. I was thankful to find a far more interesting line of work inside the company.
102 posted on 09/07/2007 5:17:55 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: wtc911

You had the right attitude. I will say that it’s very hard to live by that rule if you’re working for the wrong corporation though. I’ve seen a lot of sales people ground up in the corporate blender.


103 posted on 09/07/2007 5:19:22 PM PDT by DoughtyOne ((Victory will never be achieved while defining Conservatism downward, and forsaking its heritage.))
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To: IronJack

I was downsized recently from a property that absolutely could not afford to lose the manpower but in the upper management’s infinite wisdom, decided that because certain functions had been transferred to the corporate office that it was time to cut labor costs. That this cuts down on the quality of the lives of customers (reduced knowledge base of workforce, drastically reduced hours) AND employees (added burdens, little to no increase in pay) means nothing.

it’s not even REALLY about making money for the company because that would be about pure profit. In many cases what I see is that each mid to upper manager is looking to boost their resume with quantifiable ‘results,’ so they can move on to cushier posts. And the company is interested in showing numbers to stockholders, which in many cases are just part of a vast shell game that don’t reflect the reality of the moment or market.

There’s no loyalty out there and you’re being played for a fool if you think there is any to be found.

One reason I like privately owned companies is that there is at least a CHANCE that they will have created a different ethos and you might actually see a ‘team’ and ‘loyalty’ to reasonable extents.


104 posted on 09/07/2007 5:49:11 PM PDT by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: donna

I’m as pro-capitalist as you’ll find. Well, maybe there are a couple people. Anyways, one thing I noticed about corporations is that instead of REAL profit and growth being the prime mover (as we’re told) what really happens is that decisions are NOT made with the long-term reputation or security of the company in mind (reputation when you’re dealing with customers who have alternatives is pretty important) but stock prices and personal objectives.

Sure, my main concern is getting paid for the work I do but I wouldn’t do a disservice to a customer or the company just to make some more money.

So the execs get to go in front of the stockholders with numbers that may or may not accurately reflect the market or the company’s health AND you get managers who are interested in making a name for themselves then jumping right to another ‘opportunity’ so they can make even more money and step up the ladder.

There are some exceptions but they are usually when the founder is still a strong part of the company’s direction or when he/she is still the controlling stockholder.


105 posted on 09/07/2007 6:01:36 PM PDT by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: 3catsanadog

If you’ve ever worked in retail or really anything ‘lower level’ that interacts closely with customers, you see how they push these kids to get people to sign up for the store credit card or some other nonsense and it’s the supervisors and the execs who get the bonuses for whipping the employees.

And what do the people (some who really do great jobs selling this garbage) who do the REAL work get (keep in mind they get in trouble and sometimes fired for having ‘low numbers’ for something that really was never part of the job when they were hired or mentioned to them?)

They get a raffle, a free CD or some such nonsense. meanwhile, the person who just told someone else to tell the cashiers or sales associates to get to work OR ELSE gets his next vacation paid for.

Absolutely ridiculous.


106 posted on 09/07/2007 6:21:37 PM PDT by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: Califreak

At a certain public television network that I was at for about a decade, we essentially got the same stuff for several years and it is probably still going on.

I am glad I am free of the ugly green star man which became the new logo. There are lots of rumors about how that ugly design came to be. Most of them involve a lot of money. That is for another day.

To get a raise there you either had to be a favorite, have something on somebody, or be willing to sue. I was in the last category. The little leader upstairs favored a couple and the rest, like me, really didn’t matter.

I got a little proof of some underhanded stuff going on and after failing to have a reasonable conversation, told him abruptly what was going to happen after I make some phone calls to people downtown that had law degrees and made way more than he did. It was the first time I ever heard panic from him. I had a case and all I had to say was “veteran”.

The last thing he wanted was to be closely looked at. No doubt others past and present would love to know certain things and have some questions answered.

A big one that is one some minds still, even though I have left, is why no one never, ever, no matter what ever can get promoted out to something else. The “leader” started out at the bottom and has apparently forgotten about it.

As as a follow-up, I have heard from friends still there, that no one in house applied for my slot (knew better) and got very few others from outside and it has not been filled. It probably won’t be in the interest of saving precious pennies that the “leader” can claim for himself and do nothing for the working people.

I am so glad I sliced ties with that organization with the way things are run these days. The previous CEO was a great guy and was making good changes which upset some good ole boys. Unfortunately, he died unexpectedly and many miss him. Things went downhill from there.

Things aren’t perfect but they are a major improvement in my new line of work.


107 posted on 09/07/2007 6:37:47 PM PDT by wally_bert (I will never, ever give a dime to a PBS pledge drive.)
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To: decimon

My husband has worked up the ladder, ten years after leaving the Navy. He has worked for four different employers. With each job move, he found a better position in which to use his skills and better benefits. He works for himself, in a sense. He keeps his eye on the prize and makes it to that goal by action... not sitting still in one place. It just isn’t in his nature to wait for a raise that won’t be there. In ten years he has increased his pay by about $30,000. He is pleased with his progress.


108 posted on 09/07/2007 6:50:32 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (“I will be to this generation a second Mohammed" Joseph Smith)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

Sincerely, good for you both. My situation was much different but I don’t want to leave tear stains on the forum so I won’t go into that. :-)

I will say that it would have been much easier to leave my job if not for the fact of sacrificing benefits like the pension. In fact, I believe the job would have been much better if they’d known that people like me could leave. As it was, they knew that, after some number of years on the job, their employees were mostly ‘trapped’ employees. They played a statistical game of employee retention.


109 posted on 09/07/2007 7:10:18 PM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon

I won’t pretend to understand the risks that you took by staying. But everyone must look at their own situation and decide accordingly. Perhaps your former employer has learned a lesson, the hard way.

I hope you still find opportunities, when you look for them. Unless of course you are enjoying retirement.

Retirement scares me, a little. I can’t imagine what the future holds for us. But we’ll get there, one day.


110 posted on 09/07/2007 7:18:26 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (“I will be to this generation a second Mohammed" Joseph Smith)
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To: Califreak

Your #51 contains some great information. Thanks.


111 posted on 09/07/2007 7:45:23 PM PDT by semaj (Just shoot the bastards! * Your results may vary. Void where prohibited.)
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To: qam1
Study: Growing Number of Employers Are Not Loyal

Fixed
112 posted on 09/07/2007 7:46:57 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: OCCASparky

Great story - my comment was based on less *technical* employment - but your example is illustrative of *valuable tenured experience* being undervalued by employers.

Thanks for your common sense with a smile;)


113 posted on 09/08/2007 3:43:07 AM PDT by sodpoodle (Despair -Man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: JOAT
As has been repeatedly mentioned already, most employers show absolutely no interest in a long-term relationship with the employees, so what else could be expected?

When you anticipate a long-term relationship (10 or more years), you naturally have some interest in the long term viability of the place. When you know you're likely to leave (or worse, get laid off) you tend to have minimal interest in the fate of the company beyond the end of your stay there.

114 posted on 09/08/2007 6:05:38 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty)
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To: qam1

I’m as loyal to my company as it is to me.

In short, always have a bug out plan.


115 posted on 09/08/2007 6:08:12 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: sodpoodle
No need for tenured employees with experience and *institutional memory vaults*, the computer stores all company archives and need-to-know at the click of a mouse.

Companies keep telling themselves that...and keep finding out just how wrong they are.

116 posted on 09/08/2007 6:11:53 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: DoughtyOne
You had the right attitude. I will say that it’s very hard to live by that rule if you’re working for the wrong corporation though. I’ve seen a lot of sales people ground up in the corporate blender.

_______________________________________________

Absolutely. I worked one company for two years (management) then went back to sales for another for five years (MCI - a nightmare where they demanded that you bleed orange and rewarded mediocrity). I ended up at UUNET right after Bernie bought it and made it part of WorldCom.

Bernie was a thief but he championed the entrepreneurial attitude and scorned those who ran with the pack. His attitude was 'pay people for what they sell with no ceiling and the good ones will hit it out of the park'. It worked, a few of us earned over a million.

117 posted on 09/08/2007 7:41:38 AM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: Myrddin

” Frankly, many of those people were professional slugs. They worked as slowly as possible to give the impression that the work was difficult and time consuming.”

Interesting story. I’ve noticed that the “professional slugs” are also the ones who tear more productive workers down through office politics, character assassination and outright sabotage. If they were forced to perform on such a level as the more productive employees, they wouldn’t have time to engage in these destructive practices, which in my opinion, are the only reason these scum manage to survive for so long. They seem to take pride in their behavior. The logic behind that completely escapes me....

BTW, most of the folks I’ve seen who operate like this are liberals. I don’t know if that’s just a coincidence or not.

The best people I ever worked with were conservative Christians and a Mormon. This goes back to how dumping God ruins everything.


118 posted on 09/08/2007 8:41:19 AM PDT by Califreak (Go Hunter!)
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To: wtc911

Very good. Glad to hear it. Some would have capped you, but they let you earn as much as you could, raising their numbers in the process. That’s smart IMO.


119 posted on 09/08/2007 10:19:34 AM PDT by DoughtyOne ((Victory will never be achieved while defining Conservatism downward, and forsaking its heritage.))
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To: wardaddy
Loyalty? Cuts both ways. I'm probably the real-life equivalent of Sgt. Todd from the movie "Soldier". After life-long conditioning the betrayals taught me to only serve the deserving. You've been an honor to serve and I care for your family and interests as if they were my own. All I ask is don't let a genetically superior replicant kick my ass and replace me.

On the lighter side I Googled "loyalty" and came up with the following:

Ol' Johnny was a unique individual, to say the least.

120 posted on 09/08/2007 12:20:52 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus (Jason's by himself Monday - CB's court date & my pinched spinal nerve recovery))
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To: Califreak
Interesting story. I’ve noticed that the “professional slugs” are also the ones who tear more productive workers down through office politics, character assassination and outright sabotage.

My office mates took all 3 approaches. Bitching my my "clean desk" as a sign that I wasn't "busy". Theirs were piled high with file folders that hadn't been touched in years. Whining to boss that I should get more of "bad" offices as punishment for keeping my engineering work completed up to 7 weeks ahead of the due dates. I did have a case of outright sabotage. There was an equipment shelf missing an upper section. It was a $25 part and would be delivered in 1 week and installed for free by Western Electric. I was sent out of town for a 2 week training class. Upon return, a "senior" engineer in the group had directed Western Electric to "fix" the problem by relocating and recabling the shelf under another shelf in an adjacent bay. That came with a $2500 price tag and a 30 day delivery. I asked my boss "what the hell?". The fix was documented in the office folder and scheduled to be complete before I returned. There was no need to screw it up in that manner. She said he was just "helping me". Sure. BS.

121 posted on 09/08/2007 8:21:52 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin

Deplorable.


122 posted on 09/08/2007 10:50:10 PM PDT by Califreak (Go Hunter!)
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To: Skywalk
If you’ve ever worked in retail or really anything ‘lower level’ that interacts closely with customers, you see how they push these kids to get people to sign up for the store credit card or some other nonsense and it’s the supervisors and the execs who get the bonuses for whipping the employees.

I like to tell people about when I sold clothes when I was in college, making minimum wage (then 4.25 an hour). Working part-time, we were required to sell thousands of dollars in clothing a week. One week, I somehow made the stretch goal amount, and sold over 6K of clothes. I was rewarded with a $20 gift certificate to the store. They took taxes out, so it ended up closer to $16 or $17. Then, they wouldn't let me use my store discount with it, so I was able to buy maybe 2 pairs of underwear with it.

123 posted on 09/08/2007 11:24:48 PM PDT by conservative cat
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To: qam1

Reminds me of my post on Jim Press leaving Toyota. That was the final confirmation to me that American employees are not very loyal as a generalization. I couldn’t help buy notice Toyota’s replacement for him as President of Toyota USA, was a Japanese person.

Thing is with employees is true wealth is gradually building up an employees skill and experience over decades. Raising their rank one small step at a time, just like in the military. And staying with one company. Like a Karate master, becoming a master over many years.

Why hire an American who you put so many years of development into.. when basically guarunteed at some point they will jump ship. Taking their experience and skill with them.. and worrisome, taking proprietary information with them.

Sure for little companies it doesn’t matter so much. But for great multinational corporations. Btw its not that american corporations are blameless.. not at all. Its a chicken and egg argument about who caused it.


124 posted on 09/08/2007 11:36:20 PM PDT by ran20
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To: Skywalk
I’m as pro-capitalist as you’ll find. Well, maybe there are a couple people. Anyways, one thing I noticed about corporations is that instead of REAL profit and growth being the prime mover (as we’re told) what really happens is that decisions are NOT made with the long-term reputation or security of the company in mind (reputation when you’re dealing with customers who have alternatives is pretty important) but stock prices and personal objectives.

I believe great wealth is built up over decades. Both increasing employees skill and building rock solid brand recognition. And of course research and development building over time, capital plant built over time.

Our B-school geniuses found they could gut companies and ride on the employee loyalty and built up brands for a few years making huge profits. Then things gradually erode.

125 posted on 09/08/2007 11:43:10 PM PDT by ran20
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To: Lurker
The example starts at the top. When employees see management disregard ethics and cut corners to turn a profit, they take their example from the boss and conduct themselves accordingly. So to have loyal employees, loyalty has to be earned and the company has to have rules that are enforced consistently.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

126 posted on 09/08/2007 11:55:44 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: JOAT
That's true. If the employees are disposable, they can hardly be expected to show gratitude to the company. If the company has no interest in long term employee presence, then it can't ask more of its employees than it asks of itself. "Give and you shall receive."

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

127 posted on 09/08/2007 11:58:46 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: ran20
Thing is with employees is true wealth is gradually building up an employees skill and experience over decades. Raising their rank one small step at a time, just like in the military. And staying with one company. Like a Karate master, becoming a master over many years.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

How 'bout holding some of those multinational corporations to your "true wealth" standard?

128 posted on 09/09/2007 4:08:11 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: qam1
Study: Growing Number of Employees Are Not Loyal

This is what happens when you outsource millions of jobs to the Far East.

129 posted on 09/09/2007 4:10:01 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (“Jesus Saves. Moses Delivers. Cthulu Reposesses...”)
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To: DoughtyOne

I’ve worked the Air Force for over 30 years...last eight as a contractor...and its the same way there with loyalty. In the 1980s...there was a high expectation with loyalty...which it went both ways. In the past ten years....huge difference with no real loyalty. Signs of the times.


130 posted on 09/09/2007 4:15:44 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Califreak
You may want to give two week’s notice, but from a security standpoint, you are out the door that day. Locks are changed. Passwords and IDs are terminated so you should have no access to files or other confidential information. That is the reality of today’s workplace.

I work in security. I've always given 3 weeks notice. Then I usually get asked to leave about a week in. Still get paid for the last two weeks though. Fair enough for me.

131 posted on 09/09/2007 4:16:37 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (“Jesus Saves. Moses Delivers. Cthulu Reposesses...”)
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To: papertyger

I’m not sure what you are saying. Are you saying the companies don’t pass on the great wealth created from their internally well developed employee to said employee?


132 posted on 09/09/2007 8:08:41 AM PDT by ran20
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To: Myrddin
The corporate memory and skill embodied in employees is grossly underestimated. I left the employ of PacBell in 1991...along with 5,000 others. The company decided it needed to cut headcount to improve the bottom line. They did save lots of salary expense. They also wiped out 500 major projects that were underway. Out of that 500, they determined that 380 were a total loss. They no longer had the ability to proceed. They took the 100 most likely to succeed and outsourced many to a well known IT consulting firm. Nearly all of the outsourced jobs were screwed up beyond belief. Once again, the loss of corporate memory lead to incorrect decisions by unknowledgeable contractors.

This is one of the factors I'm talking about for building great wealth. Corporate memory. Think of a longterm engineer at Honda who started right out of university. Say hes been with the company 25 years. His memory and experience is worth a lot, hes 'been there, done that'. Its something that isn't easily quantifiable in terms of value. I see a lot of companies going new trendy management who are relatively new to the business, and especially the unique situation of that particular company.

Building longterm relationships with contractors.. and not pushing contractors to bankruptcy is another and I believe related factor. Squeezing contractors, or switching contractors all the time, is a similiar mentality to squeezing employees and hiring from the outside.

133 posted on 09/09/2007 8:23:08 AM PDT by ran20
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To: pepsionice

It just seems like workers are thought of more like replacable widgets these days. Eh, if one wears out, we’ll replace it. Employees don’t react well to that dynamic.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the tendency to move many jobs offshore has convinced employees that employers simply aren’t reliable any longer. No employer loyalty, no employee loyalty...


134 posted on 09/09/2007 8:57:08 AM PDT by DoughtyOne ((Victory will never be achieved while defining Conservatism downward, and forsaking its heritage.))
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To: ran20
Think of a longterm engineer at Honda who started right out of university. Say hes been with the company 25 years. His memory and experience is worth a lot, hes 'been there, done that'.

That engineer is exceptionally valuable within the Honda organization where he knows all the corporate relationships and issues. Once booted out of the organization, those intricate details have little value to another employer. If the employer is a Honda competitor, the engineer must be very careful not to disclose proprietary information from his former employer. He can only leverage the "generic" experience with the new employer. That may be a much less valuable commodity.

135 posted on 09/09/2007 12:57:47 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: ran20
I'm not sure what you are saying.

I'm saying no successful company today would tolerate that kind of slow incrementalism for *itself*, so why should its employees?

136 posted on 09/09/2007 2:36:52 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: qam1

It’s difficult to be loyal to an employer who treats the employees like mushrooms.

When they layoff people with 1 minute notice ...
When they make you go through security checks coming and going ...
When they give increases that aren’t up to the cost of living year after year ...
When they decrease your benefits package and tell you that you will have more say so ...
When they tell you it’s raining while they are peeing on your shoes ...

They expect loyalty but give none in return.


137 posted on 09/09/2007 2:43:28 PM PDT by BuffaloJack (Before the government can give you a dollar it must first take it from another American)
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To: papertyger

Ah I see. Ya it is funny when you think about some of our ADD organizations thinking about something over 20 years! And think of all the latest and greatest management and organization fads that have come and gone just in the last 20 years lol.


138 posted on 09/09/2007 4:03:21 PM PDT by ran20
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To: qam1

Boomers run everything. Everyone else is PO’d and frustrated.


139 posted on 09/11/2007 7:21:35 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Williams

It’s why BRIC / SCO nations are kicking our butts.


140 posted on 09/11/2007 7:27:12 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Lurker

This is a concept that is out the window. Too many Employers now a days have no loyalty to employees.... Why the hell should employees be loyal to a company?

Employers lie, cheat your check, do everything they can to cut costs. Instead of hiring someone who knows what the hell they are doing, say in estimating a job, they nickle and dime and lay off good folks. They keep the ones who kiss ass and work many more hours than they are paid for.... Yes men if you will. And don’t let this be confussed with loyalty. There is a huge difference between loyal and being a jellyfish...

I have no sympathy for any company these days. I have bust my ass in the past to keep a job, and what did I get in return? Laid off... No more!

I do my job and if anyone comes and wants to hire me, offering me more, I give a weeks notice and I’m gone...


141 posted on 09/11/2007 7:38:45 PM PDT by sit-rep ( http://trulineint.com/latestposts.asp)
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